Knicks · Embodied suffers soft tissue irregularity in injured foot (page 2)

WaltLongmire wrote:Might be why they are trying to get Dario Saric to come over now, even thought it might cost them more to buy out his contract.

Took me a little time to figure out that "Embodied" referred to Ebiid. Got to turn that auto-complete function off, Briggs.

Feel bad for the kid- never really got to see him play in college.

It would seem that the Hinkie analytic model does consider preexisting injuries for large players into the metrics he uses for evaluation.

Embiid had a stress fracture in his back, too, as well as a broken navicular bone in his foot.

This was all before the draft.

Just wondering how members of the UK nation felt about him on draft day, knowing he had a broken back and a broken foot prior to the draft?

So true about the auto correct 😬

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Might be why they are trying to get Dario Saric to come over now, even thought it might cost them more to buy out his contract.

Took me a little time to figure out that "Embodied" referred to Ebiid. Got to turn that auto-complete function off, Briggs.

Feel bad for the kid- never really got to see him play in college.

It would seem that the Hinkie analytic model does consider preexisting injuries for large players into the metrics he uses for evaluation.

Embiid had a stress fracture in his back, too, as well as a broken navicular bone in his foot.

This was all before the draft.

Just wondering how members of the UK nation felt about him on draft day, knowing he had a broken back and a broken foot prior to the draft?

I did not know that about Embiid's back. I was thinking the same thing about Saric. Also, it seems like there is more motivation to go big at pick 3 for Philly. They do have Wroten, Pierre Jackson, Canaan, Ish Smith, Jordan McRae, Glenn Robinson, and Hollis Thompson in the fold as back court players.

Yeah the threat of Philly trading back is real. Same for them taking the 3rd best player in the draft and trading him or somebody on the roster for more picks. The fact Hinkle has Philly's ownership ok with losing for the foreseeable future makes that franchise unpredictable. I mean they traded a ROY for picks and roleplayers and drafted Embiid inspite his injury concerns. The 76'ers could do anything on draft night and I wouldn't be surprised.

Denver, and Boston could both move up to #3 considering the amount of picks they have.

CrushAlot wrote:Probably won't pass on Okafor in that case.

Russell may be the better pro.

Assuming the Lakers take Russell. Philly takes OK4 and we get mudiay, Winslow or porzingis. Nothing changed

wargames wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Might be why they are trying to get Dario Saric to come over now, even thought it might cost them more to buy out his contract.

Took me a little time to figure out that "Embodied" referred to Ebiid. Got to turn that auto-complete function off, Briggs.

Feel bad for the kid- never really got to see him play in college.

It would seem that the Hinkie analytic model does consider preexisting injuries for large players into the metrics he uses for evaluation.

Embiid had a stress fracture in his back, too, as well as a broken navicular bone in his foot.

This was all before the draft.

Just wondering how members of the UK nation felt about him on draft day, knowing he had a broken back and a broken foot prior to the draft?

I did not know that about Embiid's back. I was thinking the same thing about Saric. Also, it seems like there is more motivation to go big at pick 3 for Philly. They do have Wroten, Pierre Jackson, Canaan, Ish Smith, Jordan McRae, Glenn Robinson, and Hollis Thompson in the fold as back court players.

Yeah the threat of Philly trading back is real. Same for them taking the 3rd best player in the draft and trading him or somebody on the roster for more picks. The fact Hinkle has Philly's ownership ok with losong for the foreseeable future makes that franchise unpredictable. I mean sh8t they trade a ROY for picks and roleplayers.

Denver, and Boston could both move up to #3 considering the amount of picks they have.

I see him as in the same situation as Kahn(sp?) was in Minnesota a few years ago. Had big ideas, but no idea about what he was doing. He screwed up big time with a load of lottery picks, and Minny is still rebuilding today.

Hinkie might be following those footsteps.

Hell, the fact that I'm interested in taking Porzingis and he is too, makes me wonder about MY judgement...

gunsnewing wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Probably won't pass on Okafor in that case.

Russell may be the better pro.

Assuming the Lakers take Russell. Philly takes OK4 and we get mudiay, Winslow or porzingis. Nothing changed

This is getting pretty strange, IMO.

If LA takes OK4, who wanst to be a Laker, allegedly, and Philly then goes big for Porzingis- and not they have a better reason to take him, we might actually have a chance for Russell, another guy nobody expected us to have a chance to draft.

Stranger things have happened.

We don't control our fate in this draft, but something real good is going to fall into our lap at 4, I think, and there may even be some trade down offers because of this.

there wasn't anything wrong with hinkie's thinking... if you look at the draft past the first two guys.. wiggins and parker... taking a gamble on embiid was pretty logical at that point... even with all the setbacks it might even still be preferable to have him than just about any other guy in the first round...

there's still time altho it doesn't look good at the moment...

FistOfOakley wrote:there wasn't anything wrong with hinkie's thinking... if you look at the draft past the first two guys.. wiggins and parker... taking a gamble on embiid was pretty logical at that point... even with all the setbacks it might even still be preferable to have him than just about any other guy in the first round...

there's still time altho it doesn't look good at the moment...

Hard to take a big man who has injuries like he did, though. Maybe Hinkie thought keeping Embliid out was like stashing a foreign pick for a year.

Embiid might have gone higher that year without the injuries, no?

We all talk about high risk/high reward picks, well this was one of them, no doubt about it.

He and Noel would have been some pair to have to handle.

FistOfOakley wrote:there wasn't anything wrong with hinkie's thinking... if you look at the draft past the first two guys.. wiggins and parker... taking a gamble on embiid was pretty logical at that point... even with all the setbacks it might even still be preferable to have him than just about any other guy in the first round...

there's still time altho it doesn't look good at the moment...

Hinkie gets such a pass by some people- the smartest thing he's done is somehow convince people that he should only be judged on the criteria of 'potentiality' i.e. that everything could have gone great, theoretically, rather actual reality. Must try it with my boss at work sometime!

MCW was a bad choice, now Embiid might be a bust- that's 2 fails, and considering his whole strategy is building through the draft, that's a disaster.

Sucks for us though, like CrushAlot said, it means they will likely take OK4

I heard a rumor on another forum that the reason the scan was performed was LA was looking to trade down from #2 to #3 to take Russell and gain an asset and in return Philly would of had Okafor available at #3 to put besides Noel. Same rumor says depending on the potential recovery time of Embiid the Lakers & Philly might still do the trade.

All of this leaves the knicks in the same damn spot though or trying to figure out what to do with #4

wargames wrote:I heard a rumor on another forum that the reason the scan was performed was LA was looking to trade down from #2 to #3 to take Russell and gain an asset and in return Philly would of had Okafor available at #3 to put besides Noel. Same rumor says depending on the potential recovery time of Embiid the Lakers & Philly might still do the trade.

All of this leaves the knicks in the same damn spot though or trying to figure out what to do with #4

Interesting- Lakers should still do it if true- they would get the player they want (Russell) AND Embiid (worth taking a chance on, simply because he would just be a freebie). Though maybe they would have to give up

Still not sure what is going on with the 76ers and Russell- why did they book him in for a workout the day they were going to see Porzingis in Las Vegas. And then he cancelled.

smackeddog wrote:

wargames wrote:I heard a rumor on another forum that the reason the scan was performed was LA was looking to trade down from #2 to #3 to take Russell and gain an asset and in return Philly would of had Okafor available at #3 to put besides Noel. Same rumor says depending on the potential recovery time of Embiid the Lakers & Philly might still do the trade.

All of this leaves the knicks in the same damn spot though or trying to figure out what to do with #4

Interesting- Lakers should still do it if true- they would get the player they want (Russell) AND Embiid (worth taking a chance on, simply because he would just be a freebie). Though maybe they would have to give up

Still not sure what is going on with the 76ers and Russell- why did they book him in for a workout the day they were going to see Porzingis in Las Vegas. And then he cancelled.

Stuff like that adds to the rumor. If LA told him that was their plan I could see why he wouldn't want to workout for Philly because it would be a pointless workout. Especially if they made him aware he would be traded after being drafted. Embiid, Randle, and Russell would be a real nice young core if Embiid & Randle can stay healthy. Okafor and Noel would fit well too if Noel could manage to make a reliable shot from outside the paint, he's shown flashes of the jumper in games so its a possibility.

FistOfOakley wrote:there wasn't anything wrong with hinkie's thinking... if you look at the draft past the first two guys.. wiggins and parker... taking a gamble on embiid was pretty logical at that point... even with all the setbacks it might even still be preferable to have him than just about any other guy in the first round...

there's still time altho it doesn't look good at the moment...

And what Hinkie has been emphasizing is "optionality" so given Embiid can not play a single game for them. They still have plan B, C, D and ...

Lucky Hinkie is not our GM I really can't stand.

I don't believe any team should think of Embiid as an asset at this point worthy of giving up something for.

He might end up becoming a younger version of the older Amare...too brittle physically to ever count on.

I could just here the howls around here if Phil gave up something significant for Embiid...it would be his Eddie Curry moment,

At least I know what Phil's idea of team building is. We have no idea what Hinkie is doing and if it will result in a well built team. I know what kind of roster Phil is looking to build. He's been far from perfect and so has Hinkie. That's not uncommon for GM's. Phil is actually trying to build a team right now. Hinkie is playing Fantasy league.

TripleThreat wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:It would seem that the Hinkie analytic model does consider preexisting injuries for large players into the metrics he uses for evaluation.

What Hinkies team building model does account for IMHO is "margin of error"

If the 76ers miss on a lottery pick, the guy just doesn't pan out, it's not great news, but they have the warchest and asset base to recover from it.

The Knicks, have so few assets and are so draft pick barren, that this specific draft, there is immense pressure to "hit" on this pick.

Hinkie took the best overall value at the time off the board. If Embiid doesn't pan out, he doesn't. The 76ers are armed to the teeth with more picks to keep trucking along. At least Hinkie has a plan that exploits the current system and he's stuck to it. And he'll be there, if ownership wants him there, for the next decade or two.

Phil Jackson wanted to make the playoffs, failed, then reshifted to tank, only to jeopardize that tanking with a couple of needless wins at the end of the season. He made two heavily criticized trades and now Melo has a no trade clause. He's got one foot out the door to retirement and there's no guarantee he'll even be alive in ten years, much less be the Knicks key decision maker.

I'm pretty sure every team at the top in the draft had to weigh out Embiid's injury situation. But positional value is positional value. Bigs are always valued and valued to the point where teams take risks on them that they wouldn't for smaller players.

What the 76ers are doing and what the Knicks are doing is like night and day.

At the end of the day, would you rather have Phil Jackson as the key decison maker for the past couple of years, or would have rather have had Hinkie?

I think Hinkie as the Knicks GM and head man would have put the Knicks in a far better position compared to Phil Jackson.

Armed to the teeth with more picks to replace Embiid? He has 2 first rounders and a third one which will likely end up being a second rounder. He is the ultimate case of the emperors new clothes- he has somehow convinced his followers that even when he fails, he wins. His strategy is to build through the draft, but he's blown 2 high picks. Yet his followers are cool with it because he pretends it's all about mathematics. Hilarious stuff! He's the metrics version of Isaiah Thomas!

CrushAlot wrote:Probably won't pass on Okafor in that case.

I posted something in one of these threads yesterday that said Philly would take OK4 at 3 if Russell wasn't there even if they took him to use him as trade bait cause they know how much value he has. So they'll definitely take him now. This Embiid news is exactly why i was so against us trading for him in a thread a couple/few weeks ago on here. He'll always have injury problems in his knees/legs/foot.

wargames wrote:

stopstandthere wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Probably won't pass on Okafor in that case.

Sad for Okafor. He does not want to see that.

best case is if Towns and Okafor are off the board Philly takes Porzingis and Russell drops to NY. This news just makes Russell falling more of a possibility.

I actually think this news will make Philly trade down some now in the lottery and draft WCS or M.Turner or another big depending on how far down they trade, or maybe they just overpay a big in free agency. Who knows what the heck they'll really do but it adds more questions to the top of the lottery.

I can see Philly trading up to #2 so they can get OK4 or Towns and they have plenty of assets the Lakers would love to have and the Lakers still get Russell.

TripleThreat wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:It would seem that the Hinkie analytic model does consider preexisting injuries for large players into the metrics he uses for evaluation.

What Hinkies team building model does account for IMHO is "margin of error"

If the 76ers miss on a lottery pick, the guy just doesn't pan out, it's not great news, but they have the warchest and asset base to recover from it.

The Knicks, have so few assets and are so draft pick barren, that this specific draft, there is immense pressure to "hit" on this pick.

Hinkie took the best overall value at the time off the board. If Embiid doesn't pan out, he doesn't. The 76ers are armed to the teeth with more picks to keep trucking along. At least Hinkie has a plan that exploits the current system and he's stuck to it. And he'll be there, if ownership wants him there, for the next decade or two.

Phil Jackson wanted to make the playoffs, failed, then reshifted to tank, only to jeopardize that tanking with a couple of needless wins at the end of the season. He made two heavily criticized trades and now Melo has a no trade clause. He's got one foot out the door to retirement and there's no guarantee he'll even be alive in ten years, much less be the Knicks key decision maker.

I'm pretty sure every team at the top in the draft had to weigh out Embiid's injury situation. But positional value is positional value. Bigs are always valued and valued to the point where teams take risks on them that they wouldn't for smaller players.

What the 76ers are doing and what the Knicks are doing is like night and day.

At the end of the day, would you rather have Phil Jackson as the key decison maker for the past couple of years, or would have rather have had Hinkie?

I think Hinkie as the Knicks GM and head man would have put the Knicks in a far better position compared to Phil Jackson.

I agree with the fact that him missing on Embild doesn't hurt as much since they are armed to the teeth in picks. But at the same this isn't NBA2k. And at some point all these assets are going to have to turn into results on the court. Hinkie is great at collecting assets but can he actually build a team that can win on a night to night basis or a championship?

Boston with less assets acquired KG, Ray Allen, Rondo to put together with Pierce and won a championship. Lakers with less assets acquired Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Ariz to go with Kobe and won multiple championships.

Philly has used 2-3 yrs collecting assets yet still don't have a Pierce or a Kobe. MCW produced but wasn't what they wanted and Embild may not recover from all these injuries. They are basically back to the drawing board again. And there is no guarantee that they get one in this draft either. If Embild panned out at least they would have had a franchise player to put all these assets to use to go along with a top 3 pick for a side kick and actually start building a team. Maybe throw max at a Leonard and use some other assets to get a 4th piece. Utah Jazz have more proven young talent with Favors, Hayward, Gobert, Burks, Burke. As well as Exum, Hood, Booker in the wings. Another lottery pick in this yr draft. A 2017 first from OKC and 2nd from Detroit (Kanter trade) and actual competitive basketball showing improvement. Minny is farther along as well with actual proven basketball talent. Boston has a ton of assets as well going forward, yet made the playoffs in the weak east playing competitive basketball to go along with there young talent and ton of future assets.

TripleThreat wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:It would seem that the Hinkie analytic model does consider preexisting injuries for large players into the metrics he uses for evaluation.

What Hinkies team building model does account for IMHO is "margin of error"

If the 76ers miss on a lottery pick, the guy just doesn't pan out, it's not great news, but they have the warchest and asset base to recover from it.

The Knicks, have so few assets and are so draft pick barren, that this specific draft, there is immense pressure to "hit" on this pick.

Hinkie took the best overall value at the time off the board. If Embiid doesn't pan out, he doesn't. The 76ers are armed to the teeth with more picks to keep trucking along. At least Hinkie has a plan that exploits the current system and he's stuck to it. And he'll be there, if ownership wants him there, for the next decade or two.

Phil Jackson wanted to make the playoffs, failed, then reshifted to tank, only to jeopardize that tanking with a couple of needless wins at the end of the season. He made two heavily criticized trades and now Melo has a no trade clause. He's got one foot out the door to retirement and there's no guarantee he'll even be alive in ten years, much less be the Knicks key decision maker.

I'm pretty sure every team at the top in the draft had to weigh out Embiid's injury situation. But positional value is positional value. Bigs are always valued and valued to the point where teams take risks on them that they wouldn't for smaller players.

What the 76ers are doing and what the Knicks are doing is like night and day.

At the end of the day, would you rather have Phil Jackson as the key decison maker for the past couple of years, or would have rather have had Hinkie?

I think Hinkie as the Knicks GM and head man would have put the Knicks in a far better position compared to Phil Jackson.

Nobody has any idea what Jackson would have done if placed in Hinkie's position from the start, but maybe if Jackson was at Philly he would have looked over at his Eastern Conference rival, the Knicks, and learned from what we did with guys like Amare and Eddie Curry.

The tanking criticism is kind of foolish, though- hard to believe that some of you guys are still clinging to it as a criticism.

Hinkie might make something of Philly at some point, but as a metric's boy, he has seemingly not heard of the axiom, "the shortest distance between two points is a straight line."

newyorker4ever wrote:I can see Philly trading up to #2 so they can get OK4 or Towns and they have plenty of assets the Lakers would love to have and the Lakers still get Russell.

They almost need to move assets. They have 5 picks in the second round. They have a bunch of young players signed already and then others that they have the rights to Jordan McRae, Dario Saric, and one that they have stayed loyal to, Pierre Jackson in the fold. Not sure how Hinkie works this draft. Maybe he packages some seconds to move up a bit or maybe he trades them for future seconds. He has set the table nicely for the Sixers but it still needs to be determined if he can take the next step in building his team.