Knicks · It seems from a practical view that we are either getting Russell or Okafor (page 2)
If Porzingis is the next Dirk or Euro Anthony Davis, then he and the Knicks are better off without each other.
Wha? Why?
The Knicks do not have a history of drafting young, raw players and developing them to their full potential.
Every single young Knick with promise in the last decade or so either
a) had completely failed or stunted development. added nothing significant to their games
b) only blossomed to their full potential after being traded, waived, let go by our beloved Knickerbockers
See: Nene, Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye, Mozgov
The one exception is David Lee, an offensively gifted defensive liability we let go so we could sign an offensively gifted, defensive liability with bad knees.
If you want to go all the way back to Riley/Van Gundy, they at least made drafted/developed serviceable players: Charlie Ward, Greg Anthony, Hubert Davis. After that it is ugly.
Nothing in the history of this organization can lead a rational person to believe we'll draft Porzingis and develop him over a long period of time. He'll suck or he'll get traded for Paul Pierce in 2019
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Something to remember for anyway seduced by the exotic Eastern European beauty of PorzinigsIf Porzingis is the next Dirk or Euro Anthony Davis, then he and the Knicks are better off without each other.
The Knicks do not have a history of drafting young, raw players and developing them to their full potential.
Every single young Knick with promise in the last decade or so either
a) had completely failed or stunted development. added nothing significant to their games
b) only blossomed to their full potential after being traded, waived, let go by our beloved KnickerbockersSee: Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye.
The one exception is David Lee, an offensively gifted defensive liability we let go so we could sign an offensively gifted, defensive liability with bad knees
Nothing in the history of this organization can lead a rational person to believe we'll draft Porzingis and develop him over a long period of time. He'll suck or he'll get traded for Paul Pierce in 2019
I guess you have to hope that with a new regime that the Knicks will draft and develop a prospect over time. Your post applies to any pick the Knicks make this year if it is business as usual at MSG.
CrushAlot wrote:GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Something to remember for anyway seduced by the exotic Eastern European beauty of PorzinigsIf Porzingis is the next Dirk or Euro Anthony Davis, then he and the Knicks are better off without each other.
The Knicks do not have a history of drafting young, raw players and developing them to their full potential.
Every single young Knick with promise in the last decade or so either
a) had completely failed or stunted development. added nothing significant to their games
b) only blossomed to their full potential after being traded, waived, let go by our beloved KnickerbockersSee: Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye.
The one exception is David Lee, an offensively gifted defensive liability we let go so we could sign an offensively gifted, defensive liability with bad knees
Nothing in the history of this organization can lead a rational person to believe we'll draft Porzingis and develop him over a long period of time. He'll suck or he'll get traded for Paul Pierce in 2019
I guess you have to hope that with a new regime that the Knicks will draft and develop a prospect over time. Your post applies to any pick the Knicks make this year if it is business as usual at MSG.
As a fan base we have to let this kind of past history stuff go. That was a totally different regime and under Phil he's been setting things up for real player development. He's stated over and over his desire to develop young players in this system and make use of the D League team to build a farm system. Phil has added picks and young prospects since coming here. He's set to add more this summer. He even stated that his draft pick may require time to fully develop. I'm not saying he'd take KrisP, but he's not the only young player in the draft that will need development time.
nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Something to remember for anyway seduced by the exotic Eastern European beauty of PorzinigsIf Porzingis is the next Dirk or Euro Anthony Davis, then he and the Knicks are better off without each other.
The Knicks do not have a history of drafting young, raw players and developing them to their full potential.
Every single young Knick with promise in the last decade or so either
a) had completely failed or stunted development. added nothing significant to their games
b) only blossomed to their full potential after being traded, waived, let go by our beloved KnickerbockersSee: Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye.
The one exception is David Lee, an offensively gifted defensive liability we let go so we could sign an offensively gifted, defensive liability with bad knees
Nothing in the history of this organization can lead a rational person to believe we'll draft Porzingis and develop him over a long period of time. He'll suck or he'll get traded for Paul Pierce in 2019
I guess you have to hope that with a new regime that the Knicks will draft and develop a prospect over time. Your post applies to any pick the Knicks make this year if it is business as usual at MSG.
As a fan base we have to let this kind of past history stuff go. That was a totally different regime and under Phil he's been setting things up for real player development. He's stated over and over his desire to develop young players in this system and make use of the D League team to build a farm system. Phil has added picks and young prospects since coming here. He's set to add more this summer. He even stated that his draft pick may require time to fully develop. I'm not saying he'd take KrisP, but he's not the only young player in the draft that will need development time.
Phil has always made it clear he is building thru free agency..Phil has the pressure of making the playoffs next year..We also don't have a pick..I'm not sure where you get the idea of real player development is happening..
EwingsGlass wrote:I am starting to become a Hezonja fan... I have him over Zinger. He's more NBA ready. He might be my #4 if Towns, OK4 and Russell are off the board.
I will not be surprised if at some point he is considered the best player in the draft 5 years from now. In terms of drafting I think picking him is going for the fences. You might whiff but you went down swinging.
I think the franchise capable players are Towns Porzingis and Hezonja.
Towns
Russell
Okafor
and then we still have to decide from the rest. Philly letting all the embiid stuff leak and Russell possibly having a guarantee from LA doesn't mean the 76'ers go for Porzingis instead of Okafor
holfresh wrote:He has to build through free agency. He has one first round pick for his first three drafts. He also has said he wants to pick a player that will be a Knick for 12-15 years so he is addressing development he just isn't hanging the franchise's future on one draft pick.nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Something to remember for anyway seduced by the exotic Eastern European beauty of PorzinigsIf Porzingis is the next Dirk or Euro Anthony Davis, then he and the Knicks are better off without each other.
The Knicks do not have a history of drafting young, raw players and developing them to their full potential.
Every single young Knick with promise in the last decade or so either
a) had completely failed or stunted development. added nothing significant to their games
b) only blossomed to their full potential after being traded, waived, let go by our beloved KnickerbockersSee: Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye.
The one exception is David Lee, an offensively gifted defensive liability we let go so we could sign an offensively gifted, defensive liability with bad knees
Nothing in the history of this organization can lead a rational person to believe we'll draft Porzingis and develop him over a long period of time. He'll suck or he'll get traded for Paul Pierce in 2019
I guess you have to hope that with a new regime that the Knicks will draft and develop a prospect over time. Your post applies to any pick the Knicks make this year if it is business as usual at MSG.
As a fan base we have to let this kind of past history stuff go. That was a totally different regime and under Phil he's been setting things up for real player development. He's stated over and over his desire to develop young players in this system and make use of the D League team to build a farm system. Phil has added picks and young prospects since coming here. He's set to add more this summer. He even stated that his draft pick may require time to fully develop. I'm not saying he'd take KrisP, but he's not the only young player in the draft that will need development time.Phil has always made it clear he is building thru free agency..Phil has the pressure of making the playoffs next year..We also don't have a pick..I'm not sure where you get the idea of real player development is happening..
CrushAlot wrote:holfresh wrote:He has to build through free agency. He has one first round pick for his first three drafts. He also has said he wants to pick a player that will be a Knick for 12-15 years so he is addressing development he just isn't hanging the franchise's future on one draft pick.nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Something to remember for anyway seduced by the exotic Eastern European beauty of PorzinigsIf Porzingis is the next Dirk or Euro Anthony Davis, then he and the Knicks are better off without each other.
The Knicks do not have a history of drafting young, raw players and developing them to their full potential.
Every single young Knick with promise in the last decade or so either
a) had completely failed or stunted development. added nothing significant to their games
b) only blossomed to their full potential after being traded, waived, let go by our beloved KnickerbockersSee: Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye.
The one exception is David Lee, an offensively gifted defensive liability we let go so we could sign an offensively gifted, defensive liability with bad knees
Nothing in the history of this organization can lead a rational person to believe we'll draft Porzingis and develop him over a long period of time. He'll suck or he'll get traded for Paul Pierce in 2019
I guess you have to hope that with a new regime that the Knicks will draft and develop a prospect over time. Your post applies to any pick the Knicks make this year if it is business as usual at MSG.
As a fan base we have to let this kind of past history stuff go. That was a totally different regime and under Phil he's been setting things up for real player development. He's stated over and over his desire to develop young players in this system and make use of the D League team to build a farm system. Phil has added picks and young prospects since coming here. He's set to add more this summer. He even stated that his draft pick may require time to fully develop. I'm not saying he'd take KrisP, but he's not the only young player in the draft that will need development time.Phil has always made it clear he is building thru free agency..Phil has the pressure of making the playoffs next year..We also don't have a pick..I'm not sure where you get the idea of real player development is happening..
If he did say that then it isn't realistic..Implementing the triangle means that a new regime likely in another 3 years will be bringing in the players that fits their system..Much like MDA..Woodson, the coach with the most wins last decade didn't have that luxury...
dk7th wrote:so he is drafting for the future without melo and acquiring free agents to win now with melo. that does relieve the pressure of having to draft well.
Means he doesn't have to draft well with immediate results or win now...
holfresh wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Philly bloggers are speculating that Okafor goes to the lakers and they either get Porzingis or Russell. If Porzingis is there for the Knicks would Phil take him?Phil will probably get destroyed if he makes that pick...If you pick him you are in full rebuild...He is quite a few years away and you don't have a 2016 first round pick or any good prospect on the roster..The Melo resigning will be essentially mute...Press would destroy him...
So what if press does that.
And basically pouch that noise that we have to get a ready now player.
And if Melo don't want to stay and he is healthy, he'll have good trade value.
Knicks have to take the long view for a change.
Nalod wrote:holfresh wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Philly bloggers are speculating that Okafor goes to the lakers and they either get Porzingis or Russell. If Porzingis is there for the Knicks would Phil take him?Phil will probably get destroyed if he makes that pick...If you pick him you are in full rebuild...He is quite a few years away and you don't have a 2016 first round pick or any good prospect on the roster..The Melo resigning will be essentially mute...Press would destroy him...
So what if press does that.
And basically pouch that noise that we have to get a ready now player.
And if Melo don't want to stay and he is healthy, he'll have good trade value.Knicks have to take the long view for a change.
Do you really think NY is a place where we can watch a Euro player put on weight over years to become a legit NBA player..Really??
CrushAlot wrote:I guess you have to hope that with a new regime that the Knicks will draft and develop a prospect over time. Your post applies to any pick the Knicks make this year if it is business as usual at MSG.
That is what I'm hoping. But I fear Dolan will jettison Phil before that can happen. Then he'll bring back Zeke and it'll be back to trading anything of value for past their prime names.
nixluva wrote:As a fan base we have to let this kind of past history stuff go. That was a totally different regime and under Phil he's been setting things up for real player development. He's stated over and over his desire to develop young players in this system and make use of the D League team to build a farm system. Phil has added picks and young prospects since coming here. He's set to add more this summer. He even stated that his draft pick may require time to fully develop. I'm not saying he'd take KrisP, but he's not the only young player in the draft that will need development time.
It SEEMS like guys like Winslow, Mudiay, WCS and Russell are much closer to being able to compete on a physical level.
holfresh wrote:Do you really think NY is a place where we can watch a Euro player put on weight over years to become a legit NBA player..Really??
It's sad but that's what I was saying. Even Lee was only allowed to develop because teams didn't really value him till he was already a RFA. Shit, the Knicks refused to even start him. I forget who was in his way but I remember the 55 DAVID LEE NEEDS TO START! thread on this board haha.
BRIGGS wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I am starting to become a Hezonja fan... I have him over Zinger. He's more NBA ready. He might be my #4 if Towns, OK4 and Russell are off the board.I will not be surprised if at some point he is considered the best player in the draft 5 years from now. In terms of drafting I think picking him is going for the fences. You might whiff but you went down swinging.
I think the franchise capable players are Towns Porzingis and Hezonja.
so Ok4 is no longer tim duncan and russell is no longer clyde?
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Something to remember for anyway seduced by the exotic Eastern European beauty of PorzinigsIf Porzingis is the next Dirk or Euro Anthony Davis, then he and the Knicks are better off without each other.
The Knicks do not have a history of drafting young, raw players and developing them to their full potential.
Every single young Knick with promise in the last decade or so either
a) had completely failed or stunted development. added nothing significant to their games
b) only blossomed to their full potential after being traded, waived, let go by our beloved KnickerbockersSee: Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye.
The one exception is David Lee, an offensively gifted defensive liability we let go so we could sign an offensively gifted, defensive liability with bad knees
Nothing in the history of this organization can lead a rational person to believe we'll draft Porzingis and develop him over a long period of time. He'll suck or he'll get traded for Paul Pierce in 2019
I guess you have to hope that with a new regime that the Knicks will draft and develop a prospect over time. Your post applies to any pick the Knicks make this year if it is business as usual at MSG.
As a fan base we have to let this kind of past history stuff go. That was a totally different regime and under Phil he's been setting things up for real player development. He's stated over and over his desire to develop young players in this system and make use of the D League team to build a farm system. Phil has added picks and young prospects since coming here. He's set to add more this summer. He even stated that his draft pick may require time to fully develop. I'm not saying he'd take KrisP, but he's not the only young player in the draft that will need development time.Phil has always made it clear he is building thru free agency..Phil has the pressure of making the playoffs next year..We also don't have a pick..I'm not sure where you get the idea of real player development is happening..
...Probably true, and always something to be fearful with this franchise, unfortunately.
holfresh wrote:Nalod wrote:holfresh wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Philly bloggers are speculating that Okafor goes to the lakers and they either get Porzingis or Russell. If Porzingis is there for the Knicks would Phil take him?Phil will probably get destroyed if he makes that pick...If you pick him you are in full rebuild...He is quite a few years away and you don't have a 2016 first round pick or any good prospect on the roster..The Melo resigning will be essentially mute...Press would destroy him...
So what if press does that.
And basically pouch that noise that we have to get a ready now player.
And if Melo don't want to stay and he is healthy, he'll have good trade value.Knicks have to take the long view for a change.
Do you really think NY is a place where we can watch a Euro player put on weight over years to become a legit NBA player..Really??
I hope we don't pander to the short term anymore! The Starphuch don't work.
The only one I worry about is Mundiay for some reason. Got that "Pearl washington" aura about him. WCS is a solid pick if his offensive game is there. I doubt we take him otherwise.
Towns avged 20 minutes a game and might not be ready for big NBA minutes.
IM trusting Phil and company have a good handle on these kids. Thats Gains, Warkentein and Gabriel.