Knicks · some insider info... (page 2)

doomed wrote:So free agents won't even take the Knicks seriously unless Phil is coaching and Monroe is a lock to sign with the Knicks.

Ok!

I have heard that Monroe is a lock to sign from several places. These guys may not know exactly what is happening but they are privy to a bit more than the average fan on a sports forum. I appreciate the info and encourage the guys posting it to keep posting it.

Folks I'm no insider. I just happen to know people close with the knicks. I don't claim to know the future and neither do they. They were just telling me things. I thought I would share since we're all Knicks fans here. You can take it for whatever you. I wasn't trying to cause any controversy or trouble.

callmened wrote:Folks I'm no insider. I just happen to know people close with the knicks. I don't claim to know the future and neither do they. They were just telling me things. I thought I would share since we're all Knicks fans here. You can take it for whatever you. I wasn't trying to cause any controversy or trouble.

I really appreciate your sharing. I hope you continue in the future. Over analyzing is what happens here. No worries. I hope this thread goes to twenty pages and a few other guys share stuff they hear.

Swishfm3 wrote:...going off prior convos I have had with him I can say with full confidence that #1, 2, 3 & 4 are all inaccurate. Regardless of what fans want to think majority of players will go where the money is at. point blank.

Only a handful actually know who the Knicks are going to go after during FA and the draft. Any "insider" reports saying otherwise is false.

Definitely!! i agree. players go for where the money is. the problem is there are OTHER teams with money.

and i agree, only a handful know what the actual plan is. im HAPPY about that. there havent been any leaks.

Nalod wrote:1. teams deal to make their teams better. Stick it to phil? Half the GM's were not around long enough hate phil! Why would players hate playing for Fish?

2. Gotta name sources. this "Insider" stuff makes for nothing. Sorry, don't respect either of the "insider stuff"

3. A team will deal with knicks if it helps them. Likewise we would do the same.

1. i agree. teams will do whatever they can to make their teams better. but they will try to black ball phil first. with fisher, hes a nice guy but he has to prove to players that he can win first

2. in regards to sources, one of my good friends is moke hamilton. hes a beat reporter on SNY. he also does podcasts on the knicks if youre interested. he told me about some of these issues. another friend of mine is donte greene. i dont know if any of you remember him. He was a stretch 4 who entered the league a lil to early in my opinion. he tells me about the politics of coaching and player opportunities. i hope to see him in vegas this summer and i hope he gets another shot at the NBA. another friend is a lawyer who actually works for steve mills in the CHASE bldg at MSG. i cant give his name because he'd kill me but i hear from him too. i wont consider myself close to the Harris' family but thru different family connections, I know Toby's father and have talked to him a couple times (INTENSE). Lastly, i have met a couple sports agents for dinner here in NYC (only because my fiance is a lawyer as well) and we talk about the NFL (mostly) and the NBA. they tell me how THEY earn their living and a lot of deals are made in "briefcases" (lol). unfortunately, shoe companies run alot of the NBA. the knicks will ALWAYS be a destination simply because of marketing opportunities

3. yes that makes sense but what i learned is theres a lot of animosity towards phil and therefore the knicks

again, i was just trying to share some info since we're all fans. dont shoot the messenger. lol. hope that clarifies things

doomed wrote:...and Monroe is a lock to sign with the Knicks.

Ok!

again, im not the first one to mention this. i think its pretty much known by now. will it actually happen...who knows?

callmened wrote:
2. other coaches and teams HATE phil! like ABHOR the dude. they want to stick it to him by not making deals with him

10. dont be surprise if they over pay - overrated and washed up vets on one yr deals.

again, pretty much all obvious stuff that we all knew. i guess the only thing i learned was i never realized how much other teams HATE phil. they think he's a cocky bastard and they want pay back by basically blacklisting him and the knicks. With that said, ny is always a candidate because agents LOVE the money making opportunities in manhattan. the knicks are still considered a laughing stock. phil was supposed to give them some credibility but the losing record didnt help at all.

thats all i got for now; hope that helps

Can you name some specific teams that hate Phil?

wargames wrote:

callmened wrote:
2. other coaches and teams HATE phil! like ABHOR the dude. they want to stick it to him by not making deals with him

10. dont be surprise if they over pay - overrated and washed up vets on one yr deals.

again, pretty much all obvious stuff that we all knew. i guess the only thing i learned was i never realized how much other teams HATE phil. they think he's a cocky bastard and they want pay back by basically blacklisting him and the knicks. With that said, ny is always a candidate because agents LOVE the money making opportunities in manhattan. the knicks are still considered a laughing stock. phil was supposed to give them some credibility but the losing record didnt help at all.

thats all i got for now; hope that helps

Can you name some specific teams that hate Phil?

no. that's mainly because i didnt ask. He was more like sharing how much animosity there was against phil. it was more a general statement that other teams are enjoying how much phil is losing. and they hope he loses more and more. is it every team? i wouldnt think so. will it prevent deals from happening? i hope not but i can see that being an obstacle

callmened wrote:some interesting (yet obvious) info from some insiders i know in the NBA (former players, family of players, agents, reporters). id thought id share...

1. free agents wont take playing for the knicks seriously unless phil coaches
2. other coaches and teams HATE phil! like ABHOR the dude. they want to stick it to him by not making deals with him
3. players LOVE derek fisher but they dont want to play for coach fisher
4. knicks are pretty much a lock to get monroe - its an agent thing.
5. speaking of agents, they and shoe companies pretty much dictate player movement
6. no one...i mean NO ONE knows who the knicks will draft.
7. toby wants out of orlando but not up to him
8. melo has big big plans - for marketing his brand
9. Kevin Love's gf lives in NYC - dont try to read any signs though
10. dont be surprise if they over pay - overrated and washed up vets on one yr deals.

again, pretty much all obvious stuff that we all knew. i guess the only thing i learned was i never realized how much other teams HATE phil. they think he's a cocky bastard and they want pay back by basically blacklisting him and the knicks. With that said, ny is always a candidate because agents LOVE the money making opportunities in manhattan. the knicks are still considered a laughing stock. phil was supposed to give them some credibility but the losing record didnt help at all.

thats all i got for now; hope that helps

Thanks for the information. It represents a point of view often repeated and typical of the media and a segment of the player population who are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

Points 1, 2, and 3 are gross generalizations no matter who said it and I don't doubt its an insider. What free agent cares about Phil specifically coaching if Phil's health precludes that possibility? Gasol, Aldrige, and most of the top tier Free Agents simply don't want to go anywhere else - Phil coaching has zero to do with it.

You can also be sure that the Knicks through inside sources know who of the FAs *are* sincerely considering playing for the Knicks based on reality.

All successful people breed enemies and jealous rivals. But Phil is not a lone GM nor is that his primary role. The Knicks have a capable front office that includes many former GMs. Phil simply approves or discounts the trade proposals made based on his recommendations - he's not a grunt. So, do certain people "hate" him? Probably. So what?

As I said earlier, the top tier FAs could care less about Phil, Derek, or NYC. These are red herring hearsay.

#4.) the Knicks are a lock to be in contention for Monroe IFF they want to be.

#5.) Phil threw out CAA - the guys who arranged the Bargnani trade.

#6.) No one may know because the cards haven't been played. You can be sure the Knicks have triangulation matrices in place that include available likely FA signings, potential draft day trades, and draft day combinatorials that can influence Free Agency. The process *IS* known and that's all that can be known.

#7.) Thank god. Orlando should keep Toby.

#8.) Melo has every right to invest as he pleases.

#9.) you are using the term "gf" loosely, right?

#10.) "Over-rated and washed up" is an over-rated, myopic opinion. Not a fact. free agency is and has always been about over-paying - Landry, Lin, DLee, Hawes, Parsons,... these sources are like the pot calling the kettle black.

callmened wrote:Folks I'm no insider. I just happen to know people close with the knicks. I don't claim to know the future and neither do they. They were just telling me things. I thought I would share since we're all Knicks fans here. You can take it for whatever you. I wasn't trying to cause any controversy or trouble.

Why worry about controversy and trouble if you are just presenting what you heard?

Just more to chew on while we go crazy waiting for the bloody draft.

Do you really think I want to hear more stuff about Stein being a combination of Anthony Davis, Ewing, and Camby from the Steinophants?

This type of thing is pretty good, and if you have enough stuff from different sources maybe you can put the puzzle together.

I agree Green entered the draft too early. Loved him at Cuse and thought he would be a really good pro. I thought he was still with the kings. Would love if the Knicks brought him to camp.

ill reply in CAPS since its easier

fwk00 wrote:
Thanks for the information. It represents a point of view often repeated and typical of the media and a segment of the player population who are not the sharpest tools in the shed....YEAH I DONT THINK THIS IS NECESSARILY NEW NEWS

Points 1, 2, and 3 are gross generalizations no matter who said it and I don't doubt its an insider. What free agent cares about Phil specifically coaching if Phil's health precludes that possibility? Gasol, Aldridge, and most of the top tier Free Agents simply don't want to go anywhere else - Phil coaching has zero to do with it....I AGREE WITH YOU BUT PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY FOR PHIL NOT THE GM. MANY PLAYERS ARENT SOLD ON D.FISHER. BUT ULTIMATELY IT WILL COME DOWN TO $$$

You can also be sure that the Knicks through inside sources know who of the FAs *are* sincerely considering playing for the Knicks based on reality.

All successful people breed enemies and jealous rivals. But Phil is not a lone GM nor is that his primary role. The Knicks have a capable front office that includes many former GMs. Phil simply approves or discounts the trade proposals made based on his recommendations - he's not a grunt. So, do certain people "hate" him? Probably. So what?...EXACTLY IM SURE THERES HATE AND EVEN JEALOUSY BUT IT SHOULDNT PREVENT A GOOD DEAL. BUT FROM WHAT I HEARD, LETS JUST SAY TEAMS ARENT LINING UP TO HELP PHIL

As I said earlier, the top tier FAs could care less about Phil, Derek, or NYC. These are red herring hearsay....OK

#4.) the Knicks are a lock to be in contention for Monroe IFF they want to be...YES EVERYONE IS REPORTING THAT

#5.) Phil threw out CAA - the guys who arranged the Bargnani trade.

#6.) No one may know because the cards haven't been played. You can be sure the Knicks have triangulation matrices in place that include available likely FA signings, potential draft day trades, and draft day combinatorials that can influence Free Agency. The process *IS* known and that's all that can be known...YES IT DOES SEEM LIKE PHIL AND HIS TEAM ARE DOING THEIR DUE DILIGENCE.

#7.) Thank god. Orlando should keep Toby...I LIKED HARRIS MAN! BUT NOT UP TO HIM

#8.) Melo has every right to invest as he pleases....YEP. FOR A CELEBRITY, HE'S QUITE VISIBLE HERE IN NYC. HE'S LIKE REALLY A FAMILY MAN IT SEEMS. AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO HAS SEEN HIM WITH HIS SON AT THE PARK OR SOMETHING. I HATE HIS DEFENSE, SHOT SELECTION BUT HE SEEMS LIKE A COOL GUY OFF THE COURT (SHRUGS SHOULDERS)

#9.) you are using the term "gf" loosely, right?...LOLOLOL. I ONLY MENTIONED THAT BECAUSE HE WAS SEEN AAT YANKEE STADIUM WITH PHIL

#10.) "Over-rated and washed up" is an over-rated, myopic opinion. Not a fact. free agency is and has always been about over-paying - Landry, Lin, DLee, Hawes, Parsons,... these sources are like the pot calling the kettle black...WE'LL SEE

WaltLongmire wrote:

callmened wrote:Folks I'm no insider. I just happen to know people close with the knicks. I don't claim to know the future and neither do they. They were just telling me things. I thought I would share since we're all Knicks fans here. You can take it for whatever you. I wasn't trying to cause any controversy or trouble.

Why worry about controversy and trouble if you are just presenting what you heard?

Just more to chew on while we go crazy waiting for the bloody draft.

Do you really think I want to hear more stuff about Stein being a combination of Anthony Davis, Ewing, and Camby from the Steinophants?

This type of thing is pretty good, and if you have enough stuff from different sources maybe you can put the puzzle together.

LOL. controversy in terms of "ned you dont know what youre talking about"/ "i dont believe it" etc etc. i dont know the rules here on UK in terms of the whole rumorville thing and i apologize in advance if i added to it. i simply heard some info and wanted to share since i know there are hard core knicks fans here

This is some really good stuff and like Call said these are really things that we already knew or could already infer. However I think your sources Call might by overexaggerating the fact that GM's hate the Knicks. We got Houston to give us two nice second rounders that would benefit us in the long run and a starter for next season for a tiny 38 year old pg. Nevertheless, good info from Call and Swish.

I wish I had connections Most relevant one I have is knowing a guy who knew Jahills Okafor's father.

TPercy wrote:This is some really good stuff and like Call said these are really things that we already knew or could already infer. However I think your sources Call might by overexaggerating the fact that GM's hate the Knicks. We got Houston to give us two nice second rounders that would benefit us in the long run and a starter for next season for a tiny 38 year old pg.

You can call me ned. My name is ned. Lol

Yeah "hate" is a strong word. Their point was people just don't like phil. Coach pop is revered but not phil. Smugness. Maybe? Idk

callmened wrote:

TPercy wrote:This is some really good stuff and like Call said these are really things that we already knew or could already infer. However I think your sources Call might by overexaggerating the fact that GM's hate the Knicks. We got Houston to give us two nice second rounders that would benefit us in the long run and a starter for next season for a tiny 38 year old pg.

You can call me ned. My name is ned. Lol

Yeah "hate" is a strong word. Their point was people just don't like phil. Coach pop is revered but not phil. Smugness. Maybe? Idk

Oh my bad, I'm one of those people who sees a name but dosen't actually read it

callmened wrote:

Nalod wrote:1. teams deal to make their teams better. Stick it to phil? Half the GM's were not around long enough hate phil! Why would players hate playing for Fish?

2. Gotta name sources. this "Insider" stuff makes for nothing. Sorry, don't respect either of the "insider stuff"

3. A team will deal with knicks if it helps them. Likewise we would do the same.

1. i agree. teams will do whatever they can to make their teams better. but they will try to black ball phil first. with fisher, hes a nice guy but he has to prove to players that he can win first

2. in regards to sources, one of my good friends is moke hamilton. hes a beat reporter on SNY. he also does podcasts on the knicks if youre interested. he told me about some of these issues. another friend of mine is donte greene. i dont know if any of you remember him. He was a stretch 4 who entered the league a lil to early in my opinion. he tells me about the politics of coaching and player opportunities. i hope to see him in vegas this summer and i hope he gets another shot at the NBA. another friend is a lawyer who actually works for steve mills in the CHASE bldg at MSG. i cant give his name because he'd kill me but i hear from him too. i wont consider myself close to the Harris' family but thru different family connections, I know Toby's father and have talked to him a couple times (INTENSE). Lastly, i have met a couple sports agents for dinner here in NYC (only because my fiance is a lawyer as well) and we talk about the NFL (mostly) and the NBA. they tell me how THEY earn their living and a lot of deals are made in "briefcases" (lol). unfortunately, shoe companies run alot of the NBA. the knicks will ALWAYS be a destination simply because of marketing opportunities

3. yes that makes sense but what i learned is theres a lot of animosity towards phil and therefore the knicks

again, i was just trying to share some info since we're all fans. dont shoot the messenger. lol. hope that clarifies things

Thank you for that, sometimes guys have self illusions of "Knowing" things and you certainly made a good case. I hate that Phil is not generally liked but it at least makes sense now why Dolan is attracted to him. I wish that was a compliment. I agree Fish has to earn some respect which I hope happens. I wish some of these shoe deal guys would start playing in NY!!!

Perhaps our greatest hope is cap space and triangle players can came here and thrive!!!

BTW, whats the opinion about Steve Mills? Does his underlings respect him? If he is making the calls to other GM's is he received well by them? Phil alluded to him being "here a while", which sounds like 4 years left will be the longest he is here, but that Mills was the future and he was doing the calling around the league.

Thanks!

callmened wrote:ill reply in CAPS since its easier

fwk00 wrote:
Thanks for the information. It represents a point of view often repeated and typical of the media and a segment of the player population who are not the sharpest tools in the shed....YEAH I DONT THINK THIS IS NECESSARILY NEW NEWS

Points 1, 2, and 3 are gross generalizations no matter who said it and I don't doubt its an insider. What free agent cares about Phil specifically coaching if Phil's health precludes that possibility? Gasol, Aldridge, and most of the top tier Free Agents simply don't want to go anywhere else - Phil coaching has zero to do with it....I AGREE WITH YOU BUT PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY FOR PHIL NOT THE GM. MANY PLAYERS ARENT SOLD ON D.FISHER. BUT ULTIMATELY IT WILL COME DOWN TO $$$

You can also be sure that the Knicks through inside sources know who of the FAs *are* sincerely considering playing for the Knicks based on reality.

All successful people breed enemies and jealous rivals. But Phil is not a lone GM nor is that his primary role. The Knicks have a capable front office that includes many former GMs. Phil simply approves or discounts the trade proposals made based on his recommendations - he's not a grunt. So, do certain people "hate" him? Probably. So what?...EXACTLY IM SURE THERES HATE AND EVEN JEALOUSY BUT IT SHOULDNT PREVENT A GOOD DEAL. BUT FROM WHAT I HEARD, LETS JUST SAY TEAMS ARENT LINING UP TO HELP PHIL

As I said earlier, the top tier FAs could care less about Phil, Derek, or NYC. These are red herring hearsay....OK

#4.) the Knicks are a lock to be in contention for Monroe IFF they want to be...YES EVERYONE IS REPORTING THAT

#5.) Phil threw out CAA - the guys who arranged the Bargnani trade.

#6.) No one may know because the cards haven't been played. You can be sure the Knicks have triangulation matrices in place that include available likely FA signings, potential draft day trades, and draft day combinatorials that can influence Free Agency. The process *IS* known and that's all that can be known...YES IT DOES SEEM LIKE PHIL AND HIS TEAM ARE DOING THEIR DUE DILIGENCE.

#7.) Thank god. Orlando should keep Toby...I LIKED HARRIS MAN! BUT NOT UP TO HIM

#8.) Melo has every right to invest as he pleases....YEP

#9.) you are using the term "gf" loosely, right?...LOLOLOL

#10.) "Over-rated and washed up" is an over-rated, myopic opinion. Not a fact. free agency is and has always been about over-paying - Landry, Lin, DLee, Hawes, Parsons,... these sources are like the pot calling the kettle black...WE'LL SEE

callmened, I believe every word you say and that you are relaying it accurately and I and many others truly appreciate your contributions.

And I'm fully aware that there are individuals who believe and feel the way you describe them. My counterpoints are simply to point out the futility of such arguments.

Phil is no longer physically capable of coaching. That's a medical fact and a difficult personal choice. And to what end? If he physically cannot coach a year then why expect two, three, four, or five? Players who are demanding such a thing are delusional. Secondly, Phil is not the GM, he wears many hats. and the Knicks brain-trust includes Mills and a basketball genius in his own right, John Gabriel and many others. To treat Jackson as a bumbling George Costanza parody is just mean-spirited nonsense and when you hear it you should say so.

So, okay. There *are* players who aren't sold on Fisher. Do they plan on going to a team where they can pick their own coach. Ask them about LeBron's experience with Blatt. Grown-ups often work in places where they don' get to pick their boss. Hello world.

No one has lined up to help the Knicks in fifty years. The existence of a draft, the CAA, and the media hate campaigns all feed into this. Jackson, Mills and Fisher will have to beat the odds.

Nice to see you are aware of the difference between what you hear and what makes sense and nice to see we agree on more points than not.

knickscity wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:There is a buddy of mine that works for the Knicks...I won't say doing what but he is a member on this forum (he lurks and as far as I know has never posts anything).

Anyway..once in a while he has a good laugh at the speculation and overreaction people have here. With that being said, going off prior convos I have had with him I can say with full confidence that #1, 2, 3 & 4 are all inaccurate. Regardless of what fans want to think majority of players will go where the money is at. point blank.

Monroe is ONE the players the Knicks will pursue this off season but he is not at the TOP, believe it or not. It all depends on what happens on draft night. The Knicks are going for BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE and are going to go after FA agents that fit their system but are content on holding off for the 2016 FA class.

Only a handful actually know who the Knicks are going to go after during FA and the draft. Any "insider" reports saying otherwise is false.

None of this is actually believable, except the money part. the majority of the league is subpar so I can see those being a money grab, and those should be avoided. Free agency has little to do with the draft, the team needs depth regardless of who they draft. Skills that fit could very well be two players who are completely interchangeable with positions on the court.

Just going off of what I've been told.

I wish I can name names like CallmeNed, but I can't. If he wasn't a member here I would though, lol..

Thursday can't come soon enough. Once we know who we draft, I think we will have a MUCH clearer picture on who we're likely to sign in FA.

StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil fits better as a coach he is obviously one of the best ever. As a GM he doesnt have that same skill at least yet, he is very inexperienced. To be honest his best move has probably been the prigioni trade lol. Im not saying he wont get better but i understand why some question his GM abilities and want him to coach instead

I get why people have doubts, but they seem to forget the alternative wasn't some 'young up and coming' GM of their dreams, the alternative was Dolan. Phil was the only person Dolan would take a back seat to (and even then he's been wanting to wade in), before he agreed to take over essentially Dolan was the president and GM.