Knicks · Love for the Jerian Grant pick (page 2)

This is the kind of guard we needed. I still can't believe Phil pulled this off. We could have a ballin Summer League team.

nykshaknbake wrote:Great move...this kid might turn out better than porzingis

No way he'll be better than Porzingis. He had a really good year going to the hoop this year(albeit as a 5th year senior). Hes got godd size and potential as a "penetrating guard" but hes going to have to prove he can do that with less room against longer faster athletes. That being said were going to have to wait and see. People are talking about Grant likes he a top 10 pick and a sure thing. Being fair--hes only been a fair long range shooter his full career and now we add 3-5 feet on the shot. Notre Dame plays 4 out which allows driving lanes to be very wide for their guards. If you notice ALL of their guards have high 2pt%. He takes a lot of shots that would be considered questionable. If we start Calderon and Grant together he will always have an elite defender on him as the other team can put whatever they want on Calderon. I feel good about Porzingis maybe much more so than 90% of the people on these forums. I can see where he will be very good IF he adheres to playing mid range and in and commits like these other draftees to their bodies. Grant to me is going to be a question mark. Really you take away 12 cream puff games from 2014 before he was suspended hes shooting .335 from 3 over many games attempts. His first two years he was .39 from the floor. We passed up a potential Lebron stopper in Justin Andersen for him. I hope he turns out on the high end of expectation.

BRIGGS wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Great move...this kid might turn out better than porzingis

No way he'll be better than Porzingis. He had a really good year going to the hoop this year(albeit as a 5th year senior). Hes got godd size and potential as a "penetrating guard" but hes going to have to prove he can do that with less room against longer faster athletes. That being said were going to have to wait and see. People are talking about Grant likes he a top 10 pick and a sure thing. Being fair--hes only been a fair long range shooter his full career and now we add 3-5 feet on the shot. Notre Dame plays 4 out which allows driving lanes to be very wide for their guards. If you notice ALL of their guards have high 2pt%. He takes a lot of shots that would be considered questionable. If we start Calderon and Grant together he will always have an elite defender on him as the other team can put whatever they want on Calderon. I feel good about Porzingis maybe much more so than 90% of the people on these forums. I can see where he will be very good IF he adheres to playing mid range and in and commits like these other draftees to their bodies. Grant to me is going to be a question mark. Really you take away 12 cream puff games from 2014 before he was suspended hes shooting .335 from 3 over many games attempts. His first two years he was .39 from the floor. We passed up a potential Lebron stopper in Justin Andersen for him. I hope he turns out on the high end of expectation.

porzingis is an unknown right now. We all hope he will reach his ceiling but we cant say for sure since he is a project

Jerian should get a TON of great looks on the weak side, which is where Shved operated most of the time. I have no concerns about him given his talent. If Shved could look good in that role then Jerian should look just as good if not better.

Bobby Portis is the GREATEST STEAL OF THE ENTIRE DRAFT
He is going to be able to contribute right away and is a double double with a pair of steals/blocks combined
I wanted him and sign Jermaine Oneil as a development coach to mentor him, but oh well, not sure if there were other reasons that he dropped that much but I see potential ALL STAR in him like JO in his prime
Wouldn't mind even signing JO on a vet min deal if he wanted, as we are obviously looking for VETS with David West rumors

If Jimmy Butler cannot guard Lebron, I really doubt Justin Anderson will be able to defend him in the next 3years, till Bron ages and declines

I do see PG/SG's that could be signed in the D League though, that can all be snipers, and Anderson is a SG/SF with great size...
Along with Galloway at PG, especially if we keep Shved...

Though we should just be happy that we got another 1st rounder for Tim Hardaway JR
I think Tim Hardaway JR will benefit from playing in a system like Atlanta though, we just lacked too much talent, while his ability to shoot will be valuable for them, they did pay a premium for him while we got lowballed for Iman/JR SMith *even though I thought it was a move we had to make at the time, as we have no interest in using our cap space for either of them*

We are doing the right thing for their futures and agents and Jackson probably has been looking to do "RIGHT" and repair relationship that we have previously did wrong

I'm just glad we had such a good draft. The combo of KP and Jerian was a home run. They bring a lot of skill, IQ and scoring to the team. I love Jerian's game. He and KP in a two man should be KILLER.

I love this trade! We traded a DL level SG for a legit floor general whose ceiling could be something very close to Derek Harper. That's the one player who keeps coming to mind when I watch Grant play. The similarities are really uncanny -- both around the same height (a few inches bigger than your average PG), similar jump shot shooting form (perhaps the biggest similarity--Grant's shooting style is almost identical to the way I remember Harper shot the ball--a very centered release slightly above the forehead level), both quarterbacks play with that same grit, craftiness and ability to finish at the basket, Grant plays good D like Harper did, similar college stats...Grant might be the better athlete, he got to the line more than Harper did in college and he's the better FT shooter. So excited to see this kid begin his career coming up. I'd be very surprised if this trade didn't work out in our favor.

Finestrg wrote:I love this trade! We traded a DL level SG for a legit floor general whose ceiling could be something very close to Derek Harper. That's the one player who keeps coming to mind when I watch Grant play. The similarities are really uncanny -- both around the same height (a few inches bigger than your average PG), similar jump shot shooting form (perhaps the biggest similarity--Grant's shooting style is almost identical to the way I remember Harper shot the ball--a very centered release slightly above the forehead level), both quarterbacks play with that same grit, craftiness and ability to finish at the basket, Grant plays good D like Harper did, similar college stats...Grant might be the better athlete, he got to the line more than Harper did in college and he's the better FT shooter. So excited to see this kid begin his career coming up. I'd be very surprised if this trade didn't work out in our favor.

I will give Briggs credit for mentioning some weaknesses in his game but I LOVE the pick.
I was thinking Derek Harper as well, saw him in a few places but Grant is a more athletic version and we can only hope he ever gets as good defensively.

The way Grant see's the floor is a long time removed from this team, at least from someone we drafted. He is the best pg we have drafted since Strickland or dare I say Jackson, lol. We can hope.

I wonder how much of the shooting percentages of his teamates had to do with him though Briggs. Note, when he was out last year the team went like 8 - 16 or stg like that. I get the feeling he is going to be very good or more as a pro.

BRIGGS wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Great move...this kid might turn out better than porzingis

No way he'll be better than Porzingis. He had a really good year going to the hoop this year(albeit as a 5th year senior). Hes got godd size and potential as a "penetrating guard" but hes going to have to prove he can do that with less room against longer faster athletes. That being said were going to have to wait and see. People are talking about Grant likes he a top 10 pick and a sure thing. Being fair--hes only been a fair long range shooter his full career and now we add 3-5 feet on the shot. Notre Dame plays 4 out which allows driving lanes to be very wide for their guards. If you notice ALL of their guards have high 2pt%. He takes a lot of shots that would be considered questionable. If we start Calderon and Grant together he will always have an elite defender on him as the other team can put whatever they want on Calderon. I feel good about Porzingis maybe much more so than 90% of the people on these forums. I can see where he will be very good IF he adheres to playing mid range and in and commits like these other draftees to their bodies. Grant to me is going to be a question mark. Really you take away 12 cream puff games from 2014 before he was suspended hes shooting .335 from 3 over many games attempts. His first two years he was .39 from the floor. We passed up a potential Lebron stopper in Justin Andersen for him. I hope he turns out on the high end of expectation.

well thats the downside.. he's older and he's not a long range shooter. He can shoot though, and he's very good from mid range. He draws a ton of fouls, and his scoring and playmaking are nicely balanced. He's got an NBA body where as in the past the tweener/combo guard may have been viewed as a negative its more the opposite now, he can play both guard spots.

Even thogh the Knicks were a 17 win team he should have a lot more options around him next year as well. This was a very high quality pick for the Knicks. Im a fan of this player, I redily admit, but he made me fan watching him play.

This kid was leading his team. He wasn't just a passenger on the train. He was driving it and that makes a huge difference IMO. He's a lead player who has a nice balance of aggression and patience. He scored but wasn't ignoring his teammates. He was an excellent distributor and game manager. I think this kid is a great pick for this team. He's a perfect fit for Phil's love of big guards with the ability to attack the rim, pass and defend.

Jerian's intelligence will help him to learn and excel in this system. His ability to make smart decisions will be huge. He will become a coach on the court and look to use different tactics in attacking the defense. Having a high BB IQ guard is a huge plus for this team.

nixluva wrote:This kid was leading his team. He wasn't just a passenger on the train. He was driving it and that makes a huge difference IMO. He's a lead player who has a nice balance of aggression and patience. He scored but wasn't ignoring his teammates. He was an excellent distributor and game manager. I think this kid is a great pick for this team. He's a perfect fit for Phil's love of big guards with the ability to attack the rim, pass and defend.

Jerian's intelligence will help him to learn and excel in this system. His ability to make smart decisions will be huge. He will become a coach on the court and look to use different tactics in attacking the defense. Having a high BB IQ guard is a huge plus for this team.

i couldnt have said it better

BRIGGS wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Great move...this kid might turn out better than porzingis

No way he'll be better than Porzingis. He had a really good year going to the hoop this year(albeit as a 5th year senior). Hes got godd size and potential as a "penetrating guard" but hes going to have to prove he can do that with less room against longer faster athletes. That being said were going to have to wait and see. People are talking about Grant likes he a top 10 pick and a sure thing. Being fair--hes only been a fair long range shooter his full career and now we add 3-5 feet on the shot. Notre Dame plays 4 out which allows driving lanes to be very wide for their guards. If you notice ALL of their guards have high 2pt%. He takes a lot of shots that would be considered questionable. If we start Calderon and Grant together he will always have an elite defender on him as the other team can put whatever they want on Calderon. I feel good about Porzingis maybe much more so than 90% of the people on these forums. I can see where he will be very good IF he adheres to playing mid range and in and commits like these other draftees to their bodies. Grant to me is going to be a question mark. Really you take away 12 cream puff games from 2014 before he was suspended hes shooting .335 from 3 over many games attempts. His first two years he was .39 from the floor. We passed up a potential Lebron stopper in Justin Andersen for him. I hope he turns out on the high end of expectation.

the league doesn't have elite sg defenders, are you kidding me. The fact that he can stop on a dime a pull up, that alone can't be defended. You cant back off causes he is quick enough to blow by and finish.

All last season i saw our guards like prigs, larkin, and calderone, get wide open lanes to the basket, get all the way there and kick out almost every single time. That was the most frustrating part of the season.

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Great move...this kid might turn out better than porzingis

No way he'll be better than Porzingis. He had a really good year going to the hoop this year(albeit as a 5th year senior). Hes got godd size and potential as a "penetrating guard" but hes going to have to prove he can do that with less room against longer faster athletes. That being said were going to have to wait and see. People are talking about Grant likes he a top 10 pick and a sure thing. Being fair--hes only been a fair long range shooter his full career and now we add 3-5 feet on the shot. Notre Dame plays 4 out which allows driving lanes to be very wide for their guards. If you notice ALL of their guards have high 2pt%. He takes a lot of shots that would be considered questionable. If we start Calderon and Grant together he will always have an elite defender on him as the other team can put whatever they want on Calderon. I feel good about Porzingis maybe much more so than 90% of the people on these forums. I can see where he will be very good IF he adheres to playing mid range and in and commits like these other draftees to their bodies. Grant to me is going to be a question mark. Really you take away 12 cream puff games from 2014 before he was suspended hes shooting .335 from 3 over many games attempts. His first two years he was .39 from the floor. We passed up a potential Lebron stopper in Justin Andersen for him. I hope he turns out on the high end of expectation.

the league doesn't have elite sg defenders, are you kidding me. The fact that he can stop on a dime a pull up, that alone can't be defended. You cant back off causes he is quick enough to blow by and finish.

All last season i saw our guards like prigs, larkin, and calderone, get wide open lanes to the basket, get all the way there and kick out almost every single time. That was the most frustrating part of the season.

This is why Phil wanted Jerian. He knows that a huge part of the offense was missing if you can't get penetration and finishing at the basket. Also being able to effectively drive and kick or PnR. The greater threat your guard is to score the more effective the offense will be. We were begging for one of JR, Shump or THJ to be that attacking guard, but they couldn't do it. Now we have Jerian and most likely Shved and Ledo who all can attack the basket and kick.

Might want to check my math but I just checked what happened to Notre Dame last year, pre and post the Grant suspension.
They started 8-4 with Grant and then went 7-13 when he was on academic suspension.
Here is the kicker, they averaged 79.5 points with Grant and 70,9 without him. Roughly 9 points a game more with him.
Not sure on the defense numbers. Anyone care to find a site that gives that as I get tired of using a calculator.

Special Cat...

Notice one thing in that game against duke...he didn't settle for those midrange shots, it was either layups or 3s.

TPercy wrote:Notice one thing in that game against duke...he didn't settle for those midrange shots, it was either layups or 3s.

Just what the Dr ordered. We need those lay ups. That's what Shved was doing. It totally changes everything when you can get all the way to the basket.

In addition Jerian is working on his midrange jumper too. He'll be a well rounded guard which would greatly improve this team. We saw how important it was for our guards to mix in drives and not just jack 3's only.

Another thing Jerian does for us - he gives us another option for taking the last shot. Grant was that man for Notre Dame for 3 years. When Carmelo has been in the game, the other team knows that Carmelo will get the ball and they double and triple team him. Now we have Grant.....and Porzingis; Galloway; and Calderon - all from outside. Much more difficult to defend.

Tim Hardaway JR on a GOOD TEAM is going to translate in to a solid player, though will be inconsistent at times as MOST SHOOTERS are
We had a poorly assembled team either OFF talent or DEF talent, not having enough 2 way talents and lockdown defenders was the problem

Last season, we had a roster IF HEALTHY from the START, would be able to run PnR's, with shooters to spread the floor
However, instead, The Triangle was emphasized on the majority of players that are unlikely to be part of our roster moving forward
I saw no point in doing that, though it did lead us to the #4 pick and 1 game away from the #1 overall pick for KAT

Instead of running TEAM PHILOSOPHIES and PHILOSOPHIES of the Triangle and PnR to balance out our roster, ANY SYSTEM has its strengths and weakness's, while we CLEARLY did not have the talent or experience to execute the system
Just as long as there is a system in place where all player are utilized as options for its best of abilities as we slowly incoporated the Triangle with low IQ players and players that struggled in the system
JR Smith was NOT very happy with it and didn't care for it, and more importantly, The Triangle is a system that NEEDS ALL 5 players to constantly move together to attack the DEFENSE, setting screens off the ball, with constant movement, so if player wasn't engaged the WHOLE SYSTEM FAILS
Regardless though, we need a LOW POST PRESENCE that can score 1v1, draw double teams, and have the ability to facilitate, WHICH WE DID NOT HAVE
STAT could score 1v1 but was not a facilitator, making Cole Aldrich/Jason Smith *his mid range shot* the only other options to run the system under outside of CA

However, if CA is running it, which position is he POSTING on?
SF or PF?
If he runs it at SF, the help defenders on PF/C will take away his ability to penetrate/finish close to the basket, while we didn't have the shooters to space the floor for OUR BIGS with AB out early and ALL OF OUR BIGS BEING HORRIBLE on DEFENSE, which was why Lou Amundson looked the best for awhile...
If he plays at PF his strength would actually be shooting the ball but who is grabbing our rebounds and protecting the paint?
It was a failed system before it even started, we should have slowly incorporated the philosophies of it and build up trade value's of talent, but it lead us to at least the #4 pick, though we should have had KAT if Fisher didn't feel the pressure to prove he could in fact coach when he clearly was not ready

Lou Amundson had the most mobility/DEFENSE, despite the lack of size, though eventually you need talent
It lead to the opponents forcing our BIGS to shoot, in which Jason Smith was the only one capable of hitting it consistently

As NONE of our G's capable of creating THEIR OWN SHOT and couldn't get seperation from the defense of the players defending them

In order to win games, we need to make stops and score points, NONE of which we could do while running and system that was new and completely different
Most importantly, we were running a system that we knew we had trouble executing with, lacking the talent to do so, just like when Dantoni was here to execute SSOL
We actually had a closer talent to execute Dantoni's system than we did with The Triangle....

With Jeff Teague/Dennis Schroeeder and the other shootings/BIGS that can hit the mid range and Millsap and Carroll being able to hit the 3pter, post up, and take it to the rim, with capable shooters to spread the floor for good spacing, in addition to setting multiple screens both on and off the ball for Korver or other shooters in place...

In other words, Tim Hardaway JR actually has the opportunity to utilize his ability to spread the floor and get wide open looks instead of forcing shots with facilitators/player and ball movement for good spacing
Also JR Smith was a horrible veteran to learn from in addition to CA, who BOTH are GUNNERS and Tim Hardaway needs to be in a system as the team must be able to anticipate the shots to go for OFF rebounds, something Cleveland did very well to go to the finals despite lacking talent....

Timmy will get plenty of room to operate and should contribute much more than a rookie with a team that is looking to compete now, as well as making less than the 19th pick
With that said, Atlanta didn't low ball us while Cleveland low balled us as we were unwilling to pay JR Smith or Iman Shumpert this summer
They would have helped us win more games than lose and further away from the #1 overall pick, as they both are looking to audition for contracts...

I question if Fisher even has the power to run a different/hybrid OFFENSE, like Steve Kerr did
JR Smith was undermining Fisher the entire year along with the TRIANGLE, though he was correct that the result was unlikely to work to a good shot regardless with the talent we lacked...

We will need to spend the money on development coaches, trainers, and equipment with HIGH WORK ETHIC PLAYERS and have the coaching staff be all on the same page together with trainers/nutritionist/physical therapy

Though we first will need to collect the talent to DEFEND, EXECUTE THE SYSTEM, and provide floor spacing with post options that we all lacked last season...
I do not understand all of these players complaining about where they were traded, they STUNK here in NYC's and Phil Jackson at the very least sent them to places that could help them succeed, they should be ThankFULL instead and accept the fact that they didn't play well here, appreciate the time here in NYC, and say a fresh start to a contender could be best for his future right now

We don't need JR Smith, STAT, or Tim Hardaway to do a DANCE every time they make basket, that was very annoying
That O KAY 3pter, that was why your father could not stand you, it was you NOT your father, stupid aroggance

I think we'll know pretty quickly whether Jerian Grant belongs. Usually the PGs that make it "get it" right away from their first summer league experience. I can't think of anyone who eventually became a top 30 PG (starter quality) struggling. Maybe there are some exceptions (certainly Dante Exum on the Jazz has a lot to prove), but guys like even the Jamaal Tinsley's look like they're primed to steal the starter role come the regular season, even with established guards ahead on the totem pole.

On paper, he looks like he's got the goods to be an NBA player. Maybe not a John Wall upside (a la Mudiay), but there are plenty of guys with his type of size/build that have done some damage in the league. Derek Harper has been mentioned, Doc Rivers. Maybe some will say it's on the low end but how about Aaron McKie, Ron Harper (post knee injury)...

If he isn't one of these guys, he'll probably be out of the league in 2 years.

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:Notice one thing in that game against duke...he didn't settle for those midrange shots, it was either layups or 3s.

Just what the Dr ordered. We need those lay ups. That's what Shved was doing. It totally changes everything when you can get all the way to the basket.

In addition Jerian is working on his midrange jumper too. He'll be a well rounded guard which would greatly improve this team. We saw how important it was for our guards to mix in drives and not just jack 3's only.

Yeah and you can't forget leadership aswell. He was a leader at dematha, a leader at Notre dame and he will be a leader at the Knicks

TPercy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:Notice one thing in that game against duke...he didn't settle for those midrange shots, it was either layups or 3s.

Just what the Dr ordered. We need those lay ups. That's what Shved was doing. It totally changes everything when you can get all the way to the basket.

In addition Jerian is working on his midrange jumper too. He'll be a well rounded guard which would greatly improve this team. We saw how important it was for our guards to mix in drives and not just jack 3's only.

Yeah and you can't forget leadership aswell. He was a leader at dematha, a leader at Notre dame and he will be a leader at the Knicks

I'm positive that Phil wanted his leadership qualities as much as his game. The guy just has that it factor in terms of helping lead his team. I was stunned when I heard we got him. I was high on him and to a lesser degree Cameron Payne. I prefer big guards so I was very happy Phil got Jerian. Really scores at a high % at the rim, great PnR, Passing, Pushing the ball and big shot making. Then on top of that he's a solid defender.