blkexec wrote:Not sure why anybody is hating on this lineup. ...personally i see nothing wrong with that lineup. Aflalo and west are solid vets. Monroe is a decent low post center with a mid range game and a good passer for the triangle. The only problem is defense at sf.....who's guarding bron melo? West? Whis guarding Thompson?
Thanasis eventually HOPEFULLY. Or you trade Melo and add a Carroll, Dreymond Green or Jimmy Butler. Maybe trade Melo to Orlando for Tobias Harris and another play or picks.
gunsnewing wrote:blkexec wrote:Not sure why anybody is hating on this lineup. ...personally i see nothing wrong with that lineup. Aflalo and west are solid vets. Monroe is a decent low post center with a mid range game and a good passer for the triangle. The only problem is defense at sf.....who's guarding bron melo? West? Whis guarding Thompson?
Thanasis eventually HOPEFULLY. Or you trade Melo and add a Carroll, Dreymond Green or Jimmy Butler. Maybe trade Melo to Orlando for Tobias Harris and another play or picks.
We can't just trade Melo he has a no trade clause, and there in no chance in hell he is waiving it to go to Orlando. Melo would go to the Lakers, Clippers, Brooklyn and Bulls, thats it.
Yea if teams pass up on Affalo and we get him for $7-8mil because his value is after his invincible stint in Portland after struggling last year in Denver than we got a steal. At 29 there is not reason why he would not be able to get back to being a deadly 3pt shooter in the right system. You can't ask him to do to much other Han win you some games. He is JR when JR is going good without all the off the court antics. We need a guy who can win you games from the perimeter especially in the playoffs to take the pressure of Melo. Cleveland would not have made it as far as they did without Irving and Love if JR had not gone off and win them some games. We saw what happens when Lebron is the only one producing and trying to do everything. If Lebron needs help than certainly Melo does too
Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:blkexec wrote:Not sure why anybody is hating on this lineup. ...personally i see nothing wrong with that lineup. Aflalo and west are solid vets. Monroe is a decent low post center with a mid range game and a good passer for the triangle. The only problem is defense at sf.....who's guarding bron melo? West? Whis guarding Thompson?
Thanasis eventually HOPEFULLY. Or you trade Melo and add a Carroll, Dreymond Green or Jimmy Butler. Maybe trade Melo to Orlando for Tobias Harris and another play or picks.
We can't just trade Melo he has a no trade clause, and there in no chance in hell he is waiving it to go to Orlando. Melo would go to the Lakers, Clippers, Brooklyn and Bulls, thats it.
Washington for a package of Beal & Nene too
fishmike wrote:at 35 David West has made $75mm in NBA earnings. He may simply want to play where he wants to play and with whom, title chance or not. That may trump money. If he was 28 heck no.. but things change when you hit 35
Yea that is the caveat. If West is at least considering taking less to play for a contender the Knicks will have as good a shot as anyone.
1)he is from Teaneck, NJ probably grew up a Knick fan and dreamt of being a Knick. Like you said at 35 after a decade+ Of NBA earnings he is more likely to value more than just money. Like playing at home in front of his family.
2)if he lives what Phil and the Knicks have done and sees great inner value in showing Zings, Monroe & Grant the ropes
At 35, there is usually rapid decline. I wouldn't want West for more than 2 yrs, 6 mil, though he'd probably be insulted if we offered that.
I agree with Yellowboy that overpaying West and Afflalo would negate the positives from the draft.
fishmike wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Throwing money at West and/or Afflalo would almost erase the good Phil did in the draft.
I dont like Afflalo at all, and I dont want West to be a primary target, but if we whiff on bigger fish West could play a great role here and have a lasting impression.
To me, david west and affalo are the exact type of veterans we need on this roster, Ironically West, melo, and affalo are all from the same draft class. Most likely these guy will be on one yr player option deals
gunsnewing wrote:Yea if teams pass up on Affalo and we get him for $7-8mil because his value is after his invincible stint in Portland after struggling last year in Denver than we got a steal. At 29 there is not reason why he would not be able to get back to being a deadly 3pt shooter in the right system. You can't ask him to do to much other Han win you some games. He is JR when JR is going good without all the off the court antics. We need a guy who can win you games from the perimeter especially in the playoffs to take the pressure of Melo. Cleveland would not have made it as far as they did without Irving and Love if JR had not gone off and win them some games. We saw what happens when Lebron is the only one producing and trying to do everything. If Lebron needs help than certainly Melo does too
I just worry about adding him and Monroe to a team that has Melo, who the hell is defending on this team.
Bonn1997 wrote:At 35, there is usually rapid decline. I wouldn't want West for more than 2 yrs, 6 mil, though he'd probably be insulted if we offered that.
I agree with Yellowboy that overpaying West and Afflalo would negate the positives from the draft.
Yeah, I'm with you guys on this--not interested in either guy really. I think there are much better buys out there.
Bonn1997 wrote:At 35, there is usually rapid decline. I wouldn't want West for more than 2 yrs, 6 mil, though he'd probably be insulted if we offered that.
I agree with Yellowboy that overpaying West and Afflalo would negate the positives from the draft.
So LJ & Oakley were worthless at 35? And only worth $3mil per a piece? Guys like KG & Pierce etc...
West is due to make $12+ mil if he comes here for $5.5mil consider it a huge steal and a bargain. He's got minimally another 2-3yrs of being an effective rotational player. In the meantime he will be The default leader on this team. Remember we have desperately lacked leadership since Kidd, Rasheed & Kurt retired. You don't seem to understand the value of a player like West. I'm surprised Bonn because you are usually a guy who can look past points per game stats and notice impact.
We paid Jason Kidd only $3m per at the time and people still complained. I would you have not signed Kidd that year for anything over he LLE $1.3mil per? No right?
It's a long shot he takes $7mil a year less to come here but if he does Knick fans better celebrate and appreciate
Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Yea if teams pass up on Affalo and we get him for $7-8mil because his value is after his invincible stint in Portland after struggling last year in Denver than we got a steal. At 29 there is not reason why he would not be able to get back to being a deadly 3pt shooter in the right system. You can't ask him to do to much other Han win you some games. He is JR when JR is going good without all the off the court antics. We need a guy who can win you games from the perimeter especially in the playoffs to take the pressure of Melo. Cleveland would not have made it as far as they did without Irving and Love if JR had not gone off and win them some games. We saw what happens when Lebron is the only one producing and trying to do everything. If Lebron needs help than certainly Melo does too
I just worry about adding him and Monroe to a team that has Melo, who the hell is defending on this team.
Porzingis, Grant, Thanasis, Galloway, Amundson, Thomas and hopefully David West. That is more D than we've seen in 15yrs excluding the Jason Kidd, Tyson, Shumpert, Rasheed, Kurt Knicks
blkexec wrote:Not sure why anybody is hating on this lineup. ...personally i see nothing wrong with that lineup. Aflalo and west are solid vets. Monroe is a decent low post center with a mid range game and a good passer for the triangle. The only problem is defense at sf.....who's guarding bron melo? West? Whis guarding Thompson?
The Greek Freak (Thanasis) can start when we play Cleveland and put him on Lebron.
Finestrg wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:At 35, there is usually rapid decline. I wouldn't want West for more than 2 yrs, 6 mil, though he'd probably be insulted if we offered that.
I agree with Yellowboy that overpaying West and Afflalo would negate the positives from the draft.
Yeah, I'm with you guys on this--not interested in either guy really. I think there are much better buys out there.
Ive seen reports of Monroe getting a 2 year max deal but I don't see why he would do that. My guess is he would want a 4 year max deal with an opt out after year 2 which is the worst of the 3 options for the Knicks.
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:At 35, there is usually rapid decline. I wouldn't want West for more than 2 yrs, 6 mil, though he'd probably be insulted if we offered that.
I agree with Yellowboy that overpaying West and Afflalo would negate the positives from the draft.
So LJ & Oakley were worthless at $35? And only worth $3mil per a piece? Guys like KG & Pierce etc...
West is due to make $12+ mil if he comes here for $5.5mil consider it a huge steal and a bargain. He's got minimally another 2-3yrs of being an effective rotational player. In the meantime he will be The default leader on this team. Remember we have desperately lacked leadership since Kidd, Rasheed & Kurt retired. You don't seem to understand the value of a player like West. I'm surprised Bonn because you are usually a guy who can look past points per game stats and notice impact.
We paid Jason Kidd only $3m per at the time and people still complained. I would you have not signed Kidd that year for anything over he LLE $1.3mil per? No right?
It's a long shot he takes $7mil a year less to come here but if he does Knick fans better celebrate and appreciate
Im fine with West at the MLE
newyorker4ever wrote:blkexec wrote:Not sure why anybody is hating on this lineup. ...personally i see nothing wrong with that lineup. Aflalo and west are solid vets. Monroe is a decent low post center with a mid range game and a good passer for the triangle. The only problem is defense at sf.....who's guarding bron melo? West? Whis guarding Thompson?
The Greek Freak (Thanasis) can start when we play Cleveland and put him on Lebron.
I don't think Thanasis is that ready for the NBA yet. Will be interesting to see what the Knicks do with him this summer. I wouldn't be shocked if he went back to Europe for a year or two. He's raaaaaw.
gunsnewing wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Yea if teams pass up on Affalo and we get him for $7-8mil because his value is after his invincible stint in Portland after struggling last year in Denver than we got a steal. At 29 there is not reason why he would not be able to get back to being a deadly 3pt shooter in the right system. You can't ask him to do to much other Han win you some games. He is JR when JR is going good without all the off the court antics. We need a guy who can win you games from the perimeter especially in the playoffs to take the pressure of Melo. Cleveland would not have made it as far as they did without Irving and Love if JR had not gone off and win them some games. We saw what happens when Lebron is the only one producing and trying to do everything. If Lebron needs help than certainly Melo does too
I just worry about adding him and Monroe to a team that has Melo, who the hell is defending on this team.
Porzingis, Grant, Thanasis, Galloway, Amundson, Thomas and hopefully David West. That is more D than we've seen in 15yrs excluding the Jason Kidd, Tyson, Shumpert, Rasheed, Kurt Knicks
How many of them are starting?
Monroe, Melo, Affalo, Caledron would be playing a lot of minutes. The guys your listing are on the bench, some of them might not even be on the team
Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Yea if teams pass up on Affalo and we get him for $7-8mil because his value is after his invincible stint in Portland after struggling last year in Denver than we got a steal. At 29 there is not reason why he would not be able to get back to being a deadly 3pt shooter in the right system. You can't ask him to do to much other Han win you some games. He is JR when JR is going good without all the off the court antics. We need a guy who can win you games from the perimeter especially in the playoffs to take the pressure of Melo. Cleveland would not have made it as far as they did without Irving and Love if JR had not gone off and win them some games. We saw what happens when Lebron is the only one producing and trying to do everything. If Lebron needs help than certainly Melo does too
I just worry about adding him and Monroe to a team that has Melo, who the hell is defending on this team.
There are certainly better buys but are there any realistic buys? This scenario is not even completely realistic so what better buys are out there? Aldridge, Gasol, Jordan, Carroll, Dreymond? What if we can't afford those guys then what? You rather role with Galloway, Svhed, Calderon and a Brandon bass, Aminu or combo guards like Jennings or Stuckey?
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:At 35, there is usually rapid decline. I wouldn't want West for more than 2 yrs, 6 mil, though he'd probably be insulted if we offered that.
I agree with Yellowboy that overpaying West and Afflalo would negate the positives from the draft.
So LJ & Oakley were worthless at $35? And only worth $3mil per a piece? Guys like KG & Pierce etc...
West is due to make $12+ mil if he comes here for $5.5mil consider it a huge steal and a bargain. He's got minimally another 2-3yrs of being an effective rotational player. In the meantime he will be The default leader on this team. Remember we have desperately lacked leadership since Kidd, Rasheed & Kurt retired. You don't seem to understand the value of a player like West. I'm surprised Bonn because you are usually a guy who can look past points per game stats and notice impact.
We paid Jason Kidd only $3m per at the time and people still complained. I would you have not signed Kidd that year for anything over he LLE $1.3mil per? No right?
It's a long shot he takes $7mil a year less to come here but if he does Knick fans better celebrate and appreciate
+1..so weird how some of you forget the pieces you need to actually be successful, it's not all talent
Jmpasq wrote:Finestrg wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:At 35, there is usually rapid decline. I wouldn't want West for more than 2 yrs, 6 mil, though he'd probably be insulted if we offered that.
I agree with Yellowboy that overpaying West and Afflalo would negate the positives from the draft.
Yeah, I'm with you guys on this--not interested in either guy really. I think there are much better buys out there.
Ive seen reports of Monroe getting a 2 year max deal but I don't see why he would do that. My guess is he would want a 4 year max deal with an opt out after year 2 which is the worst of the 3 options for the Knicks.
To opt out for a bigger extension when the salary cap rises after 2017. A lot of these guys will probably be looking to do the same
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:At 35, there is usually rapid decline. I wouldn't want West for more than 2 yrs, 6 mil, though he'd probably be insulted if we offered that.
I agree with Yellowboy that overpaying West and Afflalo would negate the positives from the draft.
So LJ & Oakley were worthless at $35? And only worth $3mil per a piece? Guys like KG & Pierce etc...
West is due to make $12+ mil if he comes here for $5.5mil consider it a huge steal and a bargain. He's got minimally another 2-3yrs of being an effective rotational player. In the meantime he will be The default leader on this team. Remember we have desperately lacked leadership since Kidd, Rasheed & Kurt retired. You don't seem to understand the value of a player like West. I'm surprised Bonn because you are usually a guy who can look past points per game stats and notice impact.
We paid Jason Kidd only $3m per at the time and people still complained. I would you have not signed Kidd that year for anything over he LLE $1.3mil per? No right?
It's a long shot he takes $7mil a year less to come here but if he does Knick fans better celebrate and appreciate
We're talking probabilities. So of course there are exceptions. Unless you have a crystal ball, you can only play the odds as effectively as possible. For example, that means not smoking even though there are some smokers who live to an old age.
Most players statistically peak at around 25 but don't have a rapid decline until 32. Sure, in every day life you're young if you're 30 or even 35 but that is VERY old in NBA terms. I'm even skeptical about giving 4 year contracts to guys who are over 26 but I think you'd have to in a few cases.
You can see an analysis using the wins produced statistic here: http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-l...
And win shares here: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog...
It's rare that two different metrics will produce a consensus at the exact same answer, but they did here and that has to increase confidence in their conclusions.
crzymdups wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:blkexec wrote:Not sure why anybody is hating on this lineup. ...personally i see nothing wrong with that lineup. Aflalo and west are solid vets. Monroe is a decent low post center with a mid range game and a good passer for the triangle. The only problem is defense at sf.....who's guarding bron melo? West? Whis guarding Thompson?
The Greek Freak (Thanasis) can start when we play Cleveland and put him on Lebron.
I don't think Thanasis is that ready for the NBA yet. Will be interesting to see what the Knicks do with him this summer. I wouldn't be shocked if he went back to Europe for a year or two. He's raaaaaw.
I'm not sure Thanasis will make the roster if we're going off his D-League stint from last year. We have to hope that Early and Thanasis have made some strides in their game. At the very least, they can provide some hard fouls on Lebron to try and dissuade him from going to the hole.
