Knicks · Grading Uncle Phil's moves(so far) (page 2)

crzymdups wrote:Knicks can still sign vet min guys. Williams has shown enough to
Merit $5m. It's a risk, but not a huge one.

No he hasn't. He hasn't shown anything to warrant anything above the vet min. He can't pass, defend,or rebound. He dosen't have the work ethic and is a softy. Need I get started on his numbers? It was a terrible deal.

crzymdups wrote:Knicks can still sign vet min guys. Williams has shown enough to
Merit $5m. It's a risk, but not a huge one.

Williams hasn't shown anything but besides that it's not the risk of a two year deal we're worried about. It's the allocation of resources.

What matters is not the names we added nor what they may have done in the past. What matters is how it all works together. This isn't a situation like the Cavs where it's more about individual talent than how the parts all work together. The Cavs led the league in ISO offense mainly because they have great ISO players. Phil wasn't trying to build a team based on ISO offense. Sure we must have ISO scorers but the percentage of ISO plays will be much lower and the percentage of offense coming off team play should be higher.

Phil is trying to build a team that can excel playing a team game. It's not an easy task. Not every player he has is a great passer. He has improved the number of players who can play without the ball effectively. That's a start. Guys who can move and get open, catch and shoot or finish at the basket. Of course we also need guards who can handle the ball and create plays, but also play effectively without the ball. So far he's improved the roster in these key areas. For all our players they will have to get better at the fundamentals and ball and player movement. I think this summer's moves were a good start tho.

Draft A
Lopez A-
Afflalo B-
Williams D
O'quinn C

mreinman wrote:Draft A
Lopez A-
Afflalo B-
Williams D
O'quinn C

you like afflalo over o'quinn?

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Draft A
Lopez A-
Afflalo B-
Williams D
O'quinn C

you like afflalo over o'quinn?

just a tad bit.

Afflalo can shoot mid range (stupid) shots and the phil loves long mid range shots

Pretty solid pick-ups in FA…the Williams signing is the only one I wonder about, although I know some folks like him more than others.

Means that Phil and Fisher have seen some things in him that other coaches have missed or misused, and believe they can make use of those skills within the Triangle.

We will see, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this signing.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Draft A
Lopez A-
Afflalo B-
Williams D
O'quinn C

you like afflalo over o'quinn?

just a tad bit.

Afflalo can shoot mid range (stupid) shots and the phil loves long mid range shots

hmm, Okay. Unfortunately O'quinn shoots those mid range shots although it dropped a lot last year. The year before he shot 40% on shots 16ft<3pt. I hope they continue his transition to the 3pt line like Jason Smith started to do late in the year. What I like about o'quinn is that he does defend, blk, rebound, and pass.

One thing that is interesting to me is that O'quinn is a lot like Willy Herm, they both are under the basket players. Now there are some differences but I just thought its interesting to lock up a similar player for 4yrs. I guess it is a nice fail safe and also another asset if O'quinn performs well.

Porzingis-Incomplete Hard to tell, but can't say there was any player left after the first 3 selections I would have preferred over Zinger so I like the pick

Jerian Grant-A Best point guard available, his BB IQ was desperately needed on this dumb team

Hernangomez-B Smart to bring in a teammate of KP, think he could develop into a decent role player, put up good numbers for his Euro team

Afflalo-B+, not the best SG available, but at a good price considering the current market (10mm/yr for Chumpert)

Lopez-C+ was really hoping we could do better than him and I think we are significantly overpaying but his interior defense was definitely an area of need. If he can average close to 10/10 every night I'll be satisfied.

Derrick Williams-C, has potential but has many holes in his game, not thrilled to be giving him 10 million, needs to actually play defense and not shy away from physicality to be of value

O'Quinn- B+, good pick-up, nice to have more than one serious defensive presence on the roster, the right to swap second round picks isn't a big deal IMO.

Arron Afflalo
Grade: B+

One of the best signings of the offseason. It's hard to find a good SG, and we got a quality one on what's essentially a one-year deal.

Robin Lopez
Grade: B

Good player, probably will turn out to be a fair price for him, but I generally prefer for long-term, high-paying contracts to be reserved for elite players.

Derrick Williams
Grade: B-

We needed a bench scorer and that's what Williams does. It sucks having a guy who's such a negative defensively, but maybe he'll try harder here. He has so much potential. It's worth the risk on a one-year deal.

Kyle O'Quinn
Grade: B

If he becomes a rotation player, he'll be well worth the $4 million per. I would have preferred a taller, true center, but I'm happy he's on the roster.

Draft:

Porzingis: B-

Grant: A

Hernangomez: B

Aaron Afflalo = B+. I think Afflalo is a very underrated player and we got him at such a bargain but he is coming off a bad year.

Derrick Williams = C-. Got him cheap, maybe he can still be developed but I wouldn't be shocked if he struggles to get minutes.

Robin Lopez = C+. We get an extremely mediocre player on a big contract with no opt outs. He's nothing but a stop gap that will eat up our money for years but he helps us temporarily. If we struggle horribly again and Melo wants out we're left with a contract we don't want. Hopefully that cap really shoots up and makes this deal look somewhat reasonable.

Kyle O'Quinn = C. Not a bad deal but a bit of an unknown.

Kristaps Porzingis = C+. Player with a very high ceiling. Very risky pick in my opinion.

Jerian Grant = A+. Flipped a weak asset for a player who may be the steal of the draft.

Willy Hernangomez = B-. I like where we got him but I do see a number of holes in his game.

Overall I still give the offseason a B. A C+ for Free agency and a B+ for the draft. Added some young talent and some good players to compete now.

I won't rate the draft yet because a lot depends on how Porzingis develops. If he's anything like Pau, Phil gets an A+ down the line. Grant was a great pick, very logical. Big, smart, athletic guard who can shoot and has NBA pedigree and ready to contribute right away. Hernangomez is a bruiser reminds me of Nikola Pekovic, good that we'll be getting one of Kristap's friends on the team to aid his development. If he turns out to be good when/if he comes over even better.

Arron Afflalo | A-
Are we forgetting that Afflalo was an 18/3/3 guy on the Magic and was being considered for an All-Star spot? He was in a terrible situation in Denver and his role was greatly reduced on Portland. If he can come anywhere close to those Orlando numbers which he should given his increased load we got a steal given the market. This guy works hard and is the epitome of a team player. He is a great shooter and a fine on-ball defender, also has an underrated post game and is a decent playmaker. If that bum Shumpert can get $10M a year, DeMarre Carroll can get a $60M contract we definitely got a bargain.

Derrick Williams | D+
Dude is trash we signed him solely off potential high risk, high reward signing. I would have preferred we pursue Brandon Bass. Hell, Jonas Jerebko signed the same deal and he's a better player on both ends.

Robin Lopez | B-
Well I think we overpaid although Omer Asik did get $60M. The man is a very good rim protector and P&R defender. Big time upgrade and a potential transformative defensive piece. He has good hands and is a good finisher at the rim he's a very solid player on both ends. Really I'd be thrilled with 12/8 on 50-55% FG with borderline All-NBA level defense in 30 minutes a game.

Kyle O'Quinn | A+
This was a steal. Another + defender, can block shots, racks up steals nicely for a big. He's a problem on the offensive glass with his putbacks. He has range to the 3PT line and has a decent midrange game, very smart player and a good passer. A Queens kid, at $4M he'll be a STEAL down the line.

This team should be miles better defensively next year. Galloway, Afflalo, Grant, Antekoumnpo, Lopez, O'Quinn all + defenders. If Phil gets rid of Calderon this was a tremendous off-season. I don't mind bringing in David Lee. I wouldn't mind if Alexey Shved or Ricky Ledo returned.

OQuinn is an A- for me... We got another two way player who is still young and improving for good money.

I think the plan here is cool, you put together a competitive team, who can play very good defense, and then those 2016 FA's are not going to have a problem coming over as they see they might be able to put us over the top.

Looking as the moves as a whole and not the individual players, I really like the new team.

I'm a bit perplexed with the Williams move due to his lack of defense, but let's see what Phil has in mind. But the money is not crazy (in this crazy money world of basketball, especially with the cap going up huge. 4 year deals and ok salaries now are going to be huge breaks going forward.)

I love the Lopez signing and tbh, he is who I really wanted, even ahead of Monroe (the lack of defense would have come with a huge cost imo.)
I love the recent O'Quinn move as do most. I think he will shine here.
The Affalo move is risky. Like him as a player but hope he doesn't continue to fall off. Stop gap move perhaps.
I absolutely love the Porzingis pick. We took the huge upside guy who fits this system well.

I really hope we resign Shved at PG with some SG responsibilities. And I hope we can trade Calderon as his defense is going to hurt.

So far, I'd say Phil is sitting around a B grade. You can't control where FA's go, I mean look at how many teams have done essentially nothing and we really retooled and have a good team identity that plays defesne.

Considering there are no 'sexy' moves, this has been a solid offseason. I think there is a core here that can learn and implement the triangle. It may take a while, but each player added has specific characteristics that speak to success in the triangle. People seem to hate the Derricj Williams signing, but so far that seems to be the biggest risk. With the Room Exceptiom and Vet Mins, I want to see some veteran presence in the locker room.

My short list to finish this offseason:
Caron Butler
Elton Brand
Shved
Aldrich

Zinger - B Good gamble. He will put on some weight and will give us athleticism and outside shooting. The real test is can he learn to defend.
Grant - B+ A nice young pg with a good well rounded game. His passing is a big plus.
Hernangomez - I don't think he has what it takes to stick around in the nba.
Afflalo - B+ - Good veteram 2. Nice shot; good d, but short term rental.
Lopez - B - Good player, but overpaid.
Williams - D - I hope Phil knows something that we don't.
O'Quinn - A - Solid backup at a low price.

Drafting zing we'll have to see but in terms of drafting the best player available phil gets

A+ It's the right move kid could be the face of the Knicks and as much as people think he will take time, which he will.. He's still talented and will have a impact right from the beginning.. He's starting otherwise Phil would not have told LMA and Monroe to play center.. KP is our starting PF

A+ on grant this kid is a plug and go leader/floor general this kid should be starting from day one I see a little wade mixed with Cris Paul

A+ Drafting zings teammate to come over next year is like a first round pick for next year and we can follow him all year.. This kid reminds me of Marc gasol we'll have to see how he dose next year over seas

B+ AA a scoring two veteran that is a plus defender on a very movable contract = flexibility

B+Lopez he is a missing piece and will anchor our defense he will steal the hearts of the fans, also a movable piece at the deadline if it's not working out

B. On Williams this kid played really well at the end of last year and played for two very dysfunctional franchises.. It s a home run play and he could break out seems like a great triangle player . he'll always be tradable with his untapped potential

A+ on o'quin the guy is very talented and screems triangle big a plus passer, rim protector, rebounder ... Nice mid range game as well ... And a very movable contract ...

This team is night and day from last year! Great job Phil

In my view, this next season is about one thing: making the playoffs. We need to convince FAs that the Knicks are moving in the right direction, and a playoff appearance will do that. So that is how I am viewing the offseason. Here are my grades:

Draft: Overall A-

The Zing pick was high risk/high reward, but after watching the videos, it seems clear this kid can play. He, however, is going to need at least a 2 years of adding weight and getting used to the physicality of the NBA before he is ready for starters minutes. If he can stay healthy and add about 20 pounds over the next 2 years, he is going to be at least a 15 pts, 7 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, .380% 3 pt shooter, which would be borderline all-start. I still give the pick though a B+, because the kid is not going to help much this year.

Getting Grant was a A+. This kid is the real deal. If he was a sophomore instead of a senior, he would have been a top-10 pick. This kid should be starting by December, and I would groom him to be our point guard for the next 10 years. The kid can shoot, he can drive, and he can defend.

Getting Guillermo Hernangomez was a solid move. He looks like solid center prospect. We will have to wait and see what he becomes but he is a guy that if he came out next season, could have been a high draft pick, so getting him the second round was a good move. THis was an A pick.

Free Agency: Overall B+

AA was a A+ move. We could have overpaid for Green or Matthews, but AA was a near-all star player just two seasons ago. We got him on a very cheap deal, and I think he will be better than any shooting guard we have had since Allan Houston. He is a better shooter than Tim Haradaway Jr and Shumpert, and he is more consistent than JR Smith. Very solid move.

R. Lopez was a A move. We needed rebounding and defense and outside of Jordan, Lopez was the best center to provide those two skills. In the long run, we may be better off not overpaying Monroe. We have Lopez on a decent contract for four years.

Derrick Williams - C+ move. While it is nice to have a young guy on the roster with potential, Williams main flaws are things we do not need on the team: lack of hustle and no defense. The coaching staff already needs to work on developing Zing and Grant, and we have young guys in Langston and Early. Did the team need yet another project? Unless this kid has decided to change his whole mindset as a NBA player, we grossly overpaid for him, and if the deal is for 4 years, then I think there is a good chance the Knicks regret this signing. I hope the kid decides to grow a pair, because he has a ton of talent.

Kyle O'Quinn was an A move. The kid is a solid prospect that has proven that he is an NBA player. He might end up being our starter at PF, if the team decides to play Melo at the 3. The kid can rebound, defend, and hit an open shot. SOlid pickup.

Overall I give Phil an A-. I don't blame Phil for the FAs who decided not to come here, and I honestly think it may have been a blessing in disguise. We can now focus on building our bench and a solid frontcourt, and then prepare to make a play for Durant next year. A team of Grant, AA, Durant, Melo, and Lopez, with Zing coming off the bench would be one of the better teams in the league.

Lopez A

Getting a solid starting center, probably the best low post defender since KT was in his prime, to come to this trainwreck of a franchise deserves an A. Lopez was willing to walk away if the conditions weren't right, so it wasnt just a money grab.

Afflalo B+

Secondary scorer and reasonable defender. Not going to be the same he was.

Williams D

Head scratcher for sure. No idea what we did there.

OQ - A
We need a back up interior defender that will do all the dirty work.

Overall B/B+ range. On a team with this many needs overpaying for some over the hill "star" would have been exactly the wrong move. I did want DJ though but outside of that had no interest in the others.

Williams is definitely the head scratcher - doesn't fit in with what we were doing- all the other players are good defenders, hard workers, high ball IQ's. He's none of that. He doesn't even do a anything on the offensive end to make up for it- he can't really shoot, only dunk. Just a bizarre signing.