Knicks · Why was Dallas so much more attractive than NY? (page 3)
Bonn1997 wrote:If he lived in nyc with state and city income taxes he would be paying a little over 12% annually on 20 mil. Not sure how that turns into 2 million over the life if his contract. Some have suggested that the tax is only for games played in nyc. That is still a little over 1 mil annually. Can you explain your math?Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.
Just to add to that:
To make up for the tax difference, we'd have to pay him 82 mil and it would match the 80 mil in Dallas.
When I go to CNN's cost of living calculators, I find that to match the 80 mil that Dallas offered, we'd have to pay him closer to 200 mil.
CrushAlot wrote:Gottlieb saying Jordan probably nets positive on Mavs deal vs Clips because of no state income tax.
and if thats true, it is messed up.
Bonn1997 wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.He would actually take home probably closer to 5 mil less. That is a significant amount of money we are talking about (over 5% of the contract). While it probably wasn't an issue for LMA, it has been in the past and it certainly allows players to leave the extra money teams can pay to retain them on the table a lot easier.
I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Are you taking into account BOTH the jock tax and federal income tax deduction value of state and local taxes?
I'm not familiar with the jock tax and how to account for it which is why my numbers are probably off. 1.8 mil seems low though.
mreinman wrote:Were they in that much better shape starting the free agent process?Do we still think that Texas does not seem more attractive than NY?
I understand that Jordan was from there but many players are from the NY area and that does not seem to pull them back here.
Wes Mathews was a great signing.
Lin would be a good get.
It's just down to players personal preferences. They failed to land any major target a couple of seasons ago. This year they got lucky because DJ is from Texas and they could offer him the prime scoring role he wanted. Wes Mathews is a western guy, never had any interest in coming here. His choice was between Kings and Mavs- is it any wonder he chose Mavs?
I don't get all this hype about smaller markets suddenly becoming more attractive- nothing new has happened, even the big three went to Miami.
mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..Jeter, Eli, Clyde, etc ... you need to win here.
Mattingly was loved without winning but that may have been because he was not a self centered jerk.
Ewing had a lot of people who did not like him but he deserved better. Part of the issue was that he had a terrible personality and hating sharing the rock. NY is too smart for excuses.
JR, Shump, Tyson. etc...I think we saw an article where Billups said it casually to Melo after being traded to NY..
You get killed here if you are part of a losing team
Odds are that you are going to lose..
not even talking about losing ... c'mon
I am talking about stinking
Mattingly never won. He did not even make the playoffs until the bitter end.
Ewing didn't stink..Well the perception is out there that fans will hate..
mreinman wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Gottlieb saying Jordan probably nets positive on Mavs deal vs Clips because of no state income tax.and if thats true, it is messed up.
Lebron netted positive on the Heat deal, so I believe that was accurate. He only lost on year 5 if he had opted in.
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..Jeter, Eli, Clyde, etc ... you need to win here.
Mattingly was loved without winning but that may have been because he was not a self centered jerk.
Ewing had a lot of people who did not like him but he deserved better. Part of the issue was that he had a terrible personality and hating sharing the rock. NY is too smart for excuses.
JR, Shump, Tyson. etc...I think we saw an article where Billups said it casually to Melo after being traded to NY..
You get killed here if you are part of a losing team
Odds are that you are going to lose..
not even talking about losing ... c'mon
I am talking about stinking
Mattingly never won. He did not even make the playoffs until the bitter end.
Ewing didn't stink..Well the perception is out there that fans will hate..
Ewing was not hated.
I stated what the issues that fans had with him.
CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If he lived in nyc with state and city income taxes he would be paying a little over 12% annually on 20 mil. Not sure how that turns into 2 million over the life if his contract. Some have suggested that the tax is only for games played in nyc. That is still a little over 1 mil annually. Can you explain your math?Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.
Just to add to that:
To make up for the tax difference, we'd have to pay him 82 mil and it would match the 80 mil in Dallas.
When I go to CNN's cost of living calculators, I find that to match the 80 mil that Dallas offered, we'd have to pay him closer to 200 mil.
I was also factoring in the federal income tax deduction but it's not clear if the money in state taxes would qualify for a federal income tax deduction. (I later replied saying that I thought it might potentially be closer to $5 mil than 2 mil.)
mreinman wrote:CrushAlot wrote:fitzfarm wrote:This and Chandler Parsons. Parsons seems to be an incredible recruiter. Also, as a second year player he was the team captain on the Rockets.mreinman wrote:Were they in that much better shape starting the free agent process?Do we still think that Texas does not seem more attractive than NY?
I understand that Jordan was from there but many players are from the NY area and that does not seem to pull them back here.
Wes Mathews was a great signing.
Lin would be a good get.
Money money money no tax! Also Jordan is from Texas, Mathews is as well... They have a very proactive owner and a legend in dirk ... Dallas is a gross city with bad food but if your from Texas, home is where the heart is ... When we get in the playoffs we'll be very attractive to top free agents .
thats true. Parsons seems to have players that really want to play with him.
He sucks up to the big players- we all know that type of person!
Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If he lived in nyc with state and city income taxes he would be paying a little over 12% annually on 20 mil. Not sure how that turns into 2 million over the life if his contract. Some have suggested that the tax is only for games played in nyc. That is still a little over 1 mil annually. Can you explain your math?Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.
Just to add to that:
To make up for the tax difference, we'd have to pay him 82 mil and it would match the 80 mil in Dallas.
When I go to CNN's cost of living calculators, I find that to match the 80 mil that Dallas offered, we'd have to pay him closer to 200 mil.
I was also factoring in the federal income tax deduction but it's not clear if the money in state taxes would qualify for a federal income tax deduction. (I late replied saying that I thought it might potentially be closer to $5 mil than 2 mil.)
I think 5 mil might be about right. That is a signicant advantage in my opinion.
CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If he lived in nyc with state and city income taxes he would be paying a little over 12% annually on 20 mil. Not sure how that turns into 2 million over the life if his contract. Some have suggested that the tax is only for games played in nyc. That is still a little over 1 mil annually. Can you explain your math?Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.
Just to add to that:
To make up for the tax difference, we'd have to pay him 82 mil and it would match the 80 mil in Dallas.
When I go to CNN's cost of living calculators, I find that to match the 80 mil that Dallas offered, we'd have to pay him closer to 200 mil.
I was also factoring in the federal income tax deduction but it's not clear if the money in state taxes would qualify for a federal income tax deduction. (I late replied saying that I thought it might potentially be closer to $5 mil than 2 mil.)
I think 5 mil might be about right. That is a signicant advantage in my opinion.
Sure, NYC also offers some advantages over Dallas. It's up to politicians to change the tax rate if their city is losing valuable employees or up to organizations to convince job candidates that they get something valuable for that money.
mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.
OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.But how about Texas over another City with a reasonable cost of living?
Why doesn't every person in America live in the same state? It's just individual preference- some players go for money, some because they enjoy certain states, some because they are from there, it's nothing new.
mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..Jeter, Eli, Clyde, etc ... you need to win here.
Mattingly was loved without winning but that may have been because he was not a self centered jerk.
Ewing had a lot of people who did not like him but he deserved better. Part of the issue was that he had a terrible personality and hating sharing the rock. NY is too smart for excuses.
JR, Shump, Tyson. etc...I think we saw an article where Billups said it casually to Melo after being traded to NY..
You get killed here if you are part of a losing team
Odds are that you are going to lose..
not even talking about losing ... c'mon
I am talking about stinking
Mattingly never won. He did not even make the playoffs until the bitter end.
Ewing didn't stink..Well the perception is out there that fans will hate..Ewing was not hated.
I stated what the issues that fans had with him.
Ewing was hated..NY Post backpage said "Good Riddance" after he was traded..
Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If he lived in nyc with state and city income taxes he would be paying a little over 12% annually on 20 mil. Not sure how that turns into 2 million over the life if his contract. Some have suggested that the tax is only for games played in nyc. That is still a little over 1 mil annually. Can you explain your math?Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.
Just to add to that:
To make up for the tax difference, we'd have to pay him 82 mil and it would match the 80 mil in Dallas.
When I go to CNN's cost of living calculators, I find that to match the 80 mil that Dallas offered, we'd have to pay him closer to 200 mil.
I was also factoring in the federal income tax deduction but it's not clear if the money in state taxes would qualify for a federal income tax deduction. (I late replied saying that I thought it might potentially be closer to $5 mil than 2 mil.)
I think 5 mil might be about right. That is a signicant advantage in my opinion.
Sure, NYC also offers some advantages over Dallas. It's up to politicians to change the tax rate if their city is losing valuable employees or up to organizations to convince job candidates that they get something valuable for that money.
This is really a league issue as opposed to a federal or state issue. The league is creating an unfair advantage for these teams and should address it. You can create salary cap tiers. It's a rather easy fix.
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..Jeter, Eli, Clyde, etc ... you need to win here.
Mattingly was loved without winning but that may have been because he was not a self centered jerk.
Ewing had a lot of people who did not like him but he deserved better. Part of the issue was that he had a terrible personality and hating sharing the rock. NY is too smart for excuses.
JR, Shump, Tyson. etc...I think we saw an article where Billups said it casually to Melo after being traded to NY..
You get killed here if you are part of a losing team
Odds are that you are going to lose..
not even talking about losing ... c'mon
I am talking about stinking
Mattingly never won. He did not even make the playoffs until the bitter end.
Ewing didn't stink..Well the perception is out there that fans will hate..Ewing was not hated.
I stated what the issues that fans had with him.
Ewing was hated..NY Post backpage said "Good Riddance" after he was traded..
thats because it did not end well.
Do you still see ewing hate in NY?
People definitely did not like that he was selfish. He had a big heart and always gave it his all.
smackeddog wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.
OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.But how about Texas over another City with a reasonable cost of living?
Why doesn't every person in America live in the same state? It's just individual preference- some players go for money, some because they enjoy certain states, some because they are from there, it's nothing new.
Opportunity cost. The job market in many of these regions is not great. Your rhetorical question is not directly related though. Comparing the average worker to an NBA basketball player is apples to oranges. The same job is cost adjusted in most US firms. It makes logical sense. They only usually allow people to keep salaries in forced moves as an incentive.
SwishAndDish13 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If he lived in nyc with state and city income taxes he would be paying a little over 12% annually on 20 mil. Not sure how that turns into 2 million over the life if his contract. Some have suggested that the tax is only for games played in nyc. That is still a little over 1 mil annually. Can you explain your math?Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.
Just to add to that:
To make up for the tax difference, we'd have to pay him 82 mil and it would match the 80 mil in Dallas.
When I go to CNN's cost of living calculators, I find that to match the 80 mil that Dallas offered, we'd have to pay him closer to 200 mil.
I was also factoring in the federal income tax deduction but it's not clear if the money in state taxes would qualify for a federal income tax deduction. (I late replied saying that I thought it might potentially be closer to $5 mil than 2 mil.)
I think 5 mil might be about right. That is a signicant advantage in my opinion.
Sure, NYC also offers some advantages over Dallas. It's up to politicians to change the tax rate if their city is losing valuable employees or up to organizations to convince job candidates that they get something valuable for that money.The is really a league issue as opposed to a federal or state issue. The league is creating an unfair advantage for these teams and should address it. You can create salary cap tiers. It's a rather easy fix.
It's a league issue if the owners of teams with high state taxes convince the commissioner (who is elected by the owners) to make it an issue. They haven't. Otherwise, it's just a bitter Knicks fans issue to put it bluntly. The owners and commissioner have to decide if they want to have a league that does or does not adjust for state taxes. They have decided they want one that does not.
What about adjusting for sales tax? Cost of living? Ensorements? Real estate prices?
Bonn1997 wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:smackeddog wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think
He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.
OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.But how about Texas over another City with a reasonable cost of living?
Why doesn't every person in America live in the same state? It's just individual preference- some players go for money, some because they enjoy certain states, some because they are from there, it's nothing new.
Opportunity cost. The job market in many of these regions is not great. Your rhetorical question is not directly related though. Comparing the average worker to an NBA basketball player is apples to oranges. The same job is cost adjusted in most US firms. It makes logical sense. They only usually allow people to keep salaries in forced moves as an incentive.
At most, it's partly cost adjusted. They don't actually pay you 2.4 times as much for jobs in Manhattan as in Dallas, for example.
they don't need to since most 98 percent of the people who work in Manhattan don't live there. I don't know why you keep assuming that they do.