If Carmelo comes into this season and plays the way he's been playing, the Knicks should make the playoffs....
If the team struggles early, or if Melo pulls a JR/Shump... the Knicks can trade Melo and get a small ransom for him....
either way, the Knicks fans/organization win. Or future is set and we have a healthy cap situation.
We win anyway you look at it
however, if we moved him earlier we could have gotten assets for him as well
and sign actual talent this summer with the money CA makes
If we are going to keep CA and ask him to take a paycut, use that pay cut to sign Lou Amundson and Lance Thomas, I do not blame CA for not be very happy
We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...
without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
RonRon wrote:however, if we moved him earlier we could have gotten assets for him as welland sign actual talent this summer with the money CA makes
If we are going to keep CA and ask him to take a paycut, use that pay cut to sign Lou Amundson and Lance Thomas, I do not blame CA for not be very happy
Moving him earlier wasn't a realistic option. And as proved this off season having money to spend doesn't mean much if your team sucks. The best thing money could have done is what Philly has done which is buy unwanted contracts to get draft picks.
EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I would rather pay him then see if I could trade him for something even if its not what we gave up. Or he works out and we take large steps forward and next yr with cap space we are actually able to land a big fish. Even if he becomes unmovable, just keep rebuilding through draft picks. This allows you to cover all bases.
nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
he is not going to have any takers out there for win-now-- he's too expensive. more likely we get marbury 2.0.
EnySpree wrote:If Carmelo comes into this season and plays the way he's been playing, the Knicks should make the playoffs....If the team struggles early, or if Melo pulls a JR/Shump... the Knicks can trade Melo and get a small ransom for him....
either way, the Knicks fans/organization win. Or future is set and we have a healthy cap situation.
We win anyway you look at it
Hi is a non-factor for sure and always was.
Phil stated this already.
His relationship with knicks is his problem not the Knicks.
So I do not worry about this.
We are not hostages of him any more.
He is a hostage of his own decisions.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
he is not going to have any takers out there for win-now-- he's too expensive. more likely we get marbury 2.0.
Well IMO it's not that pressing of an issue at this point. Melo's going to have to play and play well enough to show he's fully back to All Star level. That's not gonna happen right away. If he is playing well I expect the team to win games and if that happens he's not gonna want to leave NY and we'll be just fine with having him and a team that's winning games. I just don't see a big deal. If he plays well and the Knicks stink he has the option of waiving his no trade and i'm sure there will be a team out there looking for an edge in the post season.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
he is not going to have any takers out there for win-now-- he's too expensive. more likely we get marbury 2.0.
Someone hasn't been paying attention to the contracts handed out this offseason...
RonRon wrote:however, if we moved him earlier we could have gotten assets for him as welland sign actual talent this summer with the money CA makes
If we are going to keep CA and ask him to take a paycut, use that pay cut to sign Lou Amundson and Lance Thomas, I do not blame CA for not be very happy
When was this magical period when we would have gotten more? He was first eligible to be traded in December, at which point he required season ending surgery. He is still rehabbing now.
EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...
how so? We don't have our 2016 pick, so a total rebuild was pointless before we have all our first rounders going forward. Once a complete rebuild begins, we don't really need 100% cap space because no major free agents are coming here. The cap is exploding, so we can trade him and get something (more than some of you seem to pretend to think). If we just let him walk for nothing, how exactly would that have benefited us?
nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
he is not going to have any takers out there for win-now-- he's too expensive. more likely we get marbury 2.0.
Well IMO it's not that pressing of an issue at this point. Melo's going to have to play and play well enough to show he's fully back to All Star level. That's not gonna happen right away. If he is playing well I expect the team to win games and if that happens he's not gonna want to leave NY and we'll be just fine with having him and a team that's winning games. I just don't see a big deal. If he plays well and the Knicks stink he has the option of waiving his no trade and i'm sure there will be a team out there looking for an edge in the post season.
Come on Nixluva- we all know that All-stars have no trade value, especially to win-now teams- dk7th is right!
smackeddog wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
he is not going to have any takers out there for win-now-- he's too expensive. more likely we get marbury 2.0.
Well IMO it's not that pressing of an issue at this point. Melo's going to have to play and play well enough to show he's fully back to All Star level. That's not gonna happen right away. If he is playing well I expect the team to win games and if that happens he's not gonna want to leave NY and we'll be just fine with having him and a team that's winning games. I just don't see a big deal. If he plays well and the Knicks stink he has the option of waiving his no trade and i'm sure there will be a team out there looking for an edge in the post season.
Come on Nixluva- we all know that All-stars have no trade value, especially to win-now teams- dk7th is right!
Pretty sure he meant a lot of those teams don't have 20 million dollars in contracts to send back, without making their team worse.
nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
nah that's a cool story bro. the reason why the first choice free agents didn't come here was not merely because they recognize a rebuild in ny but somewhere in their thinking was that they did not want to team up with melo in new york. in other words you can't put the whole aversion to coming here on the knicks situation and leave melo out of it. it's just as easy to say that free agents did not come here BECAUSE melo was here. and if you still want to believe that jackson signed him without being coerced then that is your prerogative. sure looks like the present circumstances are putting the lie to that belief... savvy?
nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
he is not going to have any takers out there for win-now-- he's too expensive. more likely we get marbury 2.0.
Well IMO it's not that pressing of an issue at this point. Melo's going to have to play and play well enough to show he's fully back to All Star level. That's not gonna happen right away. If he is playing well I expect the team to win games and if that happens he's not gonna want to leave NY and we'll be just fine with having him and a team that's winning games. I just don't see a big deal. If he plays well and the Knicks stink he has the option of waiving his no trade and i'm sure there will be a team out there looking for an edge in the post season.
the most games the knicks are going to win, if everybody performs and melo acts like a professional, is around 38-39. unless you think kp is going to explode that is all anyone should expect. if melo pouts, sulks, gets "disgruntled," asks for a leave of absence for "personal reasons," etc. etc. the knicks still look to win around 30 games. either way the knicks will remain a lower-tier team and basically irrelevant outside of the city.
right now it's 50-50 whether he asks to be traded or pulls a marbury. at that point all fingers should point to dolan.
smackeddog wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
he is not going to have any takers out there for win-now-- he's too expensive. more likely we get marbury 2.0.
Well IMO it's not that pressing of an issue at this point. Melo's going to have to play and play well enough to show he's fully back to All Star level. That's not gonna happen right away. If he is playing well I expect the team to win games and if that happens he's not gonna want to leave NY and we'll be just fine with having him and a team that's winning games. I just don't see a big deal. If he plays well and the Knicks stink he has the option of waiving his no trade and i'm sure there will be a team out there looking for an edge in the post season.
Come on Nixluva- we all know that All-stars have no trade value, especially to win-now teams- dk7th is right!
if there are teams out there looking for an edge they are the ones who already have their starting lineups in place and are not going to be looking to disrupt what put them in a position to contend-- if any top-six team wants carmelo anthiny then it will be as a sixth man off the bench.
if you are talking about the other ten teams who will make the playoffs but have very little chance of becoming title contenders, ie who think adding carmelo anthiny will vault their team into the top six in the league... i have to say that is an interesting if not desperate fantasy for them and for you.
Jmpasq wrote:smackeddog wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
he is not going to have any takers out there for win-now-- he's too expensive. more likely we get marbury 2.0.
Well IMO it's not that pressing of an issue at this point. Melo's going to have to play and play well enough to show he's fully back to All Star level. That's not gonna happen right away. If he is playing well I expect the team to win games and if that happens he's not gonna want to leave NY and we'll be just fine with having him and a team that's winning games. I just don't see a big deal. If he plays well and the Knicks stink he has the option of waiving his no trade and i'm sure there will be a team out there looking for an edge in the post season.
Come on Nixluva- we all know that All-stars have no trade value, especially to win-now teams- dk7th is right!
Pretty sure he meant a lot of those teams don't have 20 million dollars in contracts to send back, without making their team worse.
yeah... where have i seen that before? 
Melo really is a non factor. The team seems to be moving forward with or without him. One thing that has been totally clear...either 28 mil in cap space wasnt enough or the top cats really arent that interested in playing with Melo. So at this point that notion of player dying to play with him should officially end.
smackeddog wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:We didn't move him earlier. The smart thing to do would have been to not even sign him at all...without back tracking and just dealing with this situation, the Knicks are doing great and no matter what we will be fine
I actually disagree about not signing Melo at all. The thing you would hope for is that having him still allowed FA's to feel they weren't coming to a team that had nothing. So we've gotten thru FA and have a solid roster. Now if Melo shows he can play the way he always has that would give us a very nice trade chip going forward. At any time this year if Melo should decide that he wants a win now roster he can waive his no trade. I think it still made sense to have him as an asset. I don't think he's gonna want to beg off from this team tho. I think Melo is gonna find a comfort zone with this team and help the team make a run for the playoffs. It's in his best interests to have a great year no matter what he decides he wants to do. Stay or Go, Melo has to perform.
he is not going to have any takers out there for win-now-- he's too expensive. more likely we get marbury 2.0.
Someone hasn't been paying attention to the contracts handed out this offseason...
His contract looks less bad but it's still the largest one on the planet!
There's an excellent article below by Nate Silver's 538.com on why Melo's contract may doom the Knicks to mediocrity. And Note that Silver is far from a Melo critic - he's probably one of Melo's biggest supporters actually. His calculation (before Melo's injury) was that Melo would produce at a level warranting 122 mil, which is only slightly below the actual contract. The problem is that the top teams don't simply get an even 1:1 ratio on dollars spent to player productivity. Teams that get average return on their money spent are average teams and hence finish around 41-41. The top teams have players vastly outproducing their contracts. Note that Silver wrote all of this before Melo's injury and I think he'd be at least a little harsher now.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/carm...
