Knicks · Mudiay at 4 whether he liked it or not. (page 5)
dk7th wrote:if anyone wants to see what type of point guard one is studying the best way is to look at usage to assist ratio.john wall: .65:1 this is okay not great for a point guard
chris paul .51:1 which is elite
steve nash .40:1 which is extraordinary
marbury .70:1 borderline point guard
francis .98:1 not a point guard
iverson 1:.98 not a point guard
rajon rondo .50:1 which is elite
westbrook .80:1 not a point guard
kyrie .90:1 not a point guard
felton .67:1 which is <meh>
lawson .64:1 again nothing special, barely adequate
yet rondo is terrible. There are other factors as well but he is an elite passer.
mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:if anyone wants to see what type of point guard one is studying the best way is to look at usage to assist ratio.john wall: .65:1 this is okay not great for a point guard
chris paul .51:1 which is elite
steve nash .40:1 which is extraordinary
marbury .70:1 borderline point guard
francis .98:1 not a point guard
iverson 1:.98 not a point guard
rajon rondo .50:1 which is elite
westbrook .80:1 not a point guard
kyrie .90:1 not a point guard
felton .67:1 which is <meh>
lawson .64:1 again nothing special, barely adequateyet rondo is terrible. There are other factors as well but he is an elite passer.
we are illustrating the value and quality of his passing in three senses:
(1) in a playmaking sense and
(2) in the hockey assist, and
(3) in establishing or contributing to an offense's rhythm
rondo's failing is that he has mastered (1) but does not do that well in (2) or (3). It's a failing related to his strong yet peculiar intellect which some see as a personality disorder.
you'll notice that there are many players with personality disorders in the nba. does not make them "bad" people.
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
wow DK. Love that you now post TS's.
you have come a long way 
dk7th wrote:yes one is never too old to learn.
I see what you did there
dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
Stocktons number is insane
Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1Stocktons number is insane
perhaps the most underrated player of all time.
dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
are u calculating these or is this listed somewhere. Just want to know for my own study, like the stat. What's Carmelo's Dk7th, LOL
eric bledsoe .85:1 not a point guard
jrue holiday .75:1 borderline point guard
ricky rubio .49:1 this is elite
mike conley .71:1 borderline point guard
monta ellis 1.2:1 not a point guard
bran jennings .83:1 not a point guard
derrick rose .85:1 not a point guard
jj barea .77:1 borderline point guard
kemba walker .87:1 not a point guard
prigioni .44:1 this is elite
jason kidd .49:1 this is terrific
Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
are u calculating these or is this listed somewhere. Just want to know for my own study, like the stat. What's Carmelo's Dk7th, LOL
you rang?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
scroll down to "Advanced" then look at the columns named USG and AST
carmelo anthony 2:1 which is terrible for a small forward, 2.6:1 during the woodson 54-28 mirage
rudy gay 2.3:1 looks like melo has company
danny granger 2.4:1 again just godawful
wilson chandler 2.2:1 yuuuuck
larry joe bird 1.1:1 this is elite
lebron james .91:1 this is elite
paul george 1.44:1 this is very very good
kevin durant 1.77:1 for career but last 3 seasons 1.3:1 so he has evolved, unlike melo
kawhi leonard 1.8:1 but he will evolve like durant has evolved
paul pierce 1.42:1 for his career but the numbers are fascinatingly erratic
gordon hayward 1.16:1 this is elite
joe johnson 1.15:1 this is elite but combined with poor shot selection undermines his success
chandler parson 1.35:1 this is excellent
dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
are u calculating these or is this listed somewhere. Just want to know for my own study, like the stat. What's Carmelo's Dk7th, LOLyou rang?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
scroll down to "Advanced" then look at the columns named USG and AST
carmelo anthony 2:1 which is terrible for a small forward, 2.6:1 during the woodson 54-28 mirage
rudy gay 2.3:1 looks like melo has company
danny granger 2.4:1 again just godawful
wilson chandler 2.2:1 yuuuuck
larry joe bird 1.1:1 this is elite
lebron james .91:1 this is elite
paul george 1.44:1 this is very very good
kevin durant 1.77:1 for career but last 3 seasons 1.3:1 so he has evolved, unlike melo
kawhi leonard 1.8:1 but he will evolve like durant has evolved
paul pierce 1.42:1 for his career but the numbers are fascinatingly erratic
gordon hayward 1.16:1 this is elite
joe johnson 1.15:1 this is elite but combined with poor shot selection undermines his success
chandler parson 1.35:1 this is excellent
Gallo? Pretty bad too.
mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
are u calculating these or is this listed somewhere. Just want to know for my own study, like the stat. What's Carmelo's Dk7th, LOLyou rang?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
scroll down to "Advanced" then look at the columns named USG and AST
carmelo anthony 2:1 which is terrible for a small forward, 2.6:1 during the woodson 54-28 mirage
rudy gay 2.3:1 looks like melo has company
danny granger 2.4:1 again just godawful
wilson chandler 2.2:1 yuuuuck
larry joe bird 1.1:1 this is elite
lebron james .91:1 this is elite
paul george 1.44:1 this is very very good
kevin durant 1.77:1 for career but last 3 seasons 1.3:1 so he has evolved, unlike melo
kawhi leonard 1.8:1 but he will evolve like durant has evolved
paul pierce 1.42:1 for his career but the numbers are fascinatingly erratic
gordon hayward 1.16:1 this is elite
joe johnson 1.15:1 this is elite but combined with poor shot selection undermines his success
chandler parson 1.35:1 this is excellentGallo? Pretty bad too.
For small forwards, I think it's more natural for them to be "finishers" than play makers. I bet if you look at Amar'e and Marion in Phoenix when they played with Nash they had very high usage and low assist rates. It depends a lot on how the team is built.
The problem with Me7o is that this team needs him to be a distributor. Specifically, the Triangle and lack of playmaking PG call for Me7o to be more of a distributor.
However, during the supposed "woodson mirage" season (really coulda sworn that one happened!), Me7o did get a ton of "hockey assists" where he would kick the ball out to the perimeter and it would swing for an open three. I don't think that should count as actual assists in the NBA - but since people are getting all advanced with their metrics, it'd be nice to see those types of teamwork passes recorded and rewarded somewhere.
I'm not a huge Me7o fan, but the assist rate stat seems kinda unsophisticated. I'd love to see it somehow reflect the pass that leads to the pass that creates an assist as well.
crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
are u calculating these or is this listed somewhere. Just want to know for my own study, like the stat. What's Carmelo's Dk7th, LOLyou rang?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
scroll down to "Advanced" then look at the columns named USG and AST
carmelo anthony 2:1 which is terrible for a small forward, 2.6:1 during the woodson 54-28 mirage
rudy gay 2.3:1 looks like melo has company
danny granger 2.4:1 again just godawful
wilson chandler 2.2:1 yuuuuck
larry joe bird 1.1:1 this is elite
lebron james .91:1 this is elite
paul george 1.44:1 this is very very good
kevin durant 1.77:1 for career but last 3 seasons 1.3:1 so he has evolved, unlike melo
kawhi leonard 1.8:1 but he will evolve like durant has evolved
paul pierce 1.42:1 for his career but the numbers are fascinatingly erratic
gordon hayward 1.16:1 this is elite
joe johnson 1.15:1 this is elite but combined with poor shot selection undermines his success
chandler parson 1.35:1 this is excellentGallo? Pretty bad too.
For small forwards, I think it's more natural for them to be "finishers" than play makers. I bet if you look at Amar'e and Marion in Phoenix when they played with Nash they had very high usage and low assist rates. It depends a lot on how the team is built.
The problem with Me7o is that this team needs him to be a distributor. Specifically, the Triangle and lack of playmaking PG call for Me7o to be more of a distributor.
However, during the supposed "woodson mirage" season (really coulda sworn that one happened!), Me7o did get a ton of "hockey assists" where he would kick the ball out to the perimeter and it would swing for an open three. I don't think that should count as actual assists in the NBA - but since people are getting all advanced with their metrics, it'd be nice to see those types of teamwork passes recorded and rewarded somewhere.
I'm not a huge Me7o fan, but the assist rate stat seems kinda unsophisticated. I'd love to see it somehow reflect the pass that leads to the pass that creates an assist as well.
hockey assists are now tracked and Melo does not "pass" there either
unfortunately, the ball usually does not come out once he gets it in the post unless he is quadruple teamed and even then, there must be zero sunshine
crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
are u calculating these or is this listed somewhere. Just want to know for my own study, like the stat. What's Carmelo's Dk7th, LOLyou rang?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
scroll down to "Advanced" then look at the columns named USG and AST
carmelo anthony 2:1 which is terrible for a small forward, 2.6:1 during the woodson 54-28 mirage
rudy gay 2.3:1 looks like melo has company
danny granger 2.4:1 again just godawful
wilson chandler 2.2:1 yuuuuck
larry joe bird 1.1:1 this is elite
lebron james .91:1 this is elite
paul george 1.44:1 this is very very good
kevin durant 1.77:1 for career but last 3 seasons 1.3:1 so he has evolved, unlike melo
kawhi leonard 1.8:1 but he will evolve like durant has evolved
paul pierce 1.42:1 for his career but the numbers are fascinatingly erratic
gordon hayward 1.16:1 this is elite
joe johnson 1.15:1 this is elite but combined with poor shot selection undermines his success
chandler parson 1.35:1 this is excellentGallo? Pretty bad too.
For small forwards, I think it's more natural for them to be "finishers" than play makers. I bet if you look at Amar'e and Marion in Phoenix when they played with Nash they had very high usage and low assist rates. It depends a lot on how the team is built.
The problem with Me7o is that this team needs him to be a distributor. Specifically, the Triangle and lack of playmaking PG call for Me7o to be more of a distributor.
However, during the supposed "woodson mirage" season (really coulda sworn that one happened!), Me7o did get a ton of "hockey assists" where he would kick the ball out to the perimeter and it would swing for an open three. I don't think that should count as actual assists in the NBA - but since people are getting all advanced with their metrics, it'd be nice to see those types of teamwork and playing making recorded and rewarded somewhere.
I'm not a huge Me7o fan, but the assist rate stat seems kinda unsophisticated. I'd love to see it somehow reflect the pass that leads to the pass that creates an assist as well.
i think it accounts for what you are asking, since it is defined as "an estimate of teammate field goals a player assisted while he was on the floor."
dk7th wrote:
i think it accounts for what you are asking, since it is defined as "an estimate of teammate field goals a player assisted while he was on the floor."
I don't think there is any stat in the NBA that accounts for the "hockey assist" aka the pass that leads to the pass that leads to the bucket... I think it'd be an interesting stat and I'm pretty sure no NBA stat accounts for it. A lot of post players have to pass out and the guy they pass out to has a good angle to get an assist or find an open man. Shaq and Ewing and Duncan would get a ton of these kinds of assists.
Anyway, just a thought. I think what you are posting is quite interesting.
mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
are u calculating these or is this listed somewhere. Just want to know for my own study, like the stat. What's Carmelo's Dk7th, LOLyou rang?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
scroll down to "Advanced" then look at the columns named USG and AST
carmelo anthony 2:1 which is terrible for a small forward, 2.6:1 during the woodson 54-28 mirage
rudy gay 2.3:1 looks like melo has company
danny granger 2.4:1 again just godawful
wilson chandler 2.2:1 yuuuuck
larry joe bird 1.1:1 this is elite
lebron james .91:1 this is elite
paul george 1.44:1 this is very very good
kevin durant 1.77:1 for career but last 3 seasons 1.3:1 so he has evolved, unlike melo
kawhi leonard 1.8:1 but he will evolve like durant has evolved
paul pierce 1.42:1 for his career but the numbers are fascinatingly erratic
gordon hayward 1.16:1 this is elite
joe johnson 1.15:1 this is elite but combined with poor shot selection undermines his success
chandler parson 1.35:1 this is excellentGallo? Pretty bad too.
yes but in gallo's defense he has been jerked around and marginalized a bunch during his career, but he has shown ability in two seasons in denver. if he can maintain his health he can work on that part of his game like durant has done.
i expect him to be closer to 1.4:1 this next season now that he is being paid like a featured player, but i have some real doubts about mudiay hindering the offense rather than helping.
crzymdups wrote:dk7th wrote:
i think it accounts for what you are asking, since it is defined as "an estimate of teammate field goals a player assisted while he was on the floor."I don't think there is any stat in the NBA that accounts for the "hockey assist" aka the pass that leads to the pass that leads to the bucket... I think it'd be an interesting stat and I'm pretty sure no NBA stat accounts for it. A lot of post players have to pass out and the guy they pass out to has a good angle to get an assist or find an open man. Shaq and Ewing and Duncan would get a ton of these kinds of assists.
Anyway, just a thought. I think what you are posting is quite interesting.
dk7th wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
are u calculating these or is this listed somewhere. Just want to know for my own study, like the stat. What's Carmelo's Dk7th, LOLyou rang?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
scroll down to "Advanced" then look at the columns named USG and AST
carmelo anthony 2:1 which is terrible for a small forward, 2.6:1 during the woodson 54-28 mirage
rudy gay 2.3:1 looks like melo has company
danny granger 2.4:1 again just godawful
wilson chandler 2.2:1 yuuuuck
larry joe bird 1.1:1 this is elite
lebron james .91:1 this is elite
paul george 1.44:1 this is very very good
kevin durant 1.77:1 for career but last 3 seasons 1.3:1 so he has evolved, unlike melo
kawhi leonard 1.8:1 but he will evolve like durant has evolved
paul pierce 1.42:1 for his career but the numbers are fascinatingly erratic
gordon hayward 1.16:1 this is elite
joe johnson 1.15:1 this is elite but combined with poor shot selection undermines his success
chandler parson 1.35:1 this is excellentGallo? Pretty bad too.
yes but in gallo's defense he has been jerked around and marginalized a bunch during his career, but he has shown ability in two seasons in denver. if he can maintain his health he can work on that part of his game like durant has done.
i expect him to be closer to 1.4:1 this next season now that he is being paid like a featured player, but i have some real doubts about mudiay hindering the offense rather than helping.
your are making excuses for him. If you do that, then you need to start looking at every stat far deeper.
mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:john stockton .38:1 which is incredible
magic johnson .53:1 which is elite and combine that with 61%TS
deron williams .59:1 which is pretty good
damian lillard .89:1 not a point guard and this will be an issue for the blazers
jeff teague .72:1 borderline point guard
stephen curry .81:1 borderline point guard
kyle lowry .70:1
are u calculating these or is this listed somewhere. Just want to know for my own study, like the stat. What's Carmelo's Dk7th, LOLyou rang?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
scroll down to "Advanced" then look at the columns named USG and AST
carmelo anthony 2:1 which is terrible for a small forward, 2.6:1 during the woodson 54-28 mirage
rudy gay 2.3:1 looks like melo has company
danny granger 2.4:1 again just godawful
wilson chandler 2.2:1 yuuuuck
larry joe bird 1.1:1 this is elite
lebron james .91:1 this is elite
paul george 1.44:1 this is very very good
kevin durant 1.77:1 for career but last 3 seasons 1.3:1 so he has evolved, unlike melo
kawhi leonard 1.8:1 but he will evolve like durant has evolved
paul pierce 1.42:1 for his career but the numbers are fascinatingly erratic
gordon hayward 1.16:1 this is elite
joe johnson 1.15:1 this is elite but combined with poor shot selection undermines his success
chandler parson 1.35:1 this is excellentGallo? Pretty bad too.
yes but in gallo's defense he has been jerked around and marginalized a bunch during his career, but he has shown ability in two seasons in denver. if he can maintain his health he can work on that part of his game like durant has done.
i expect him to be closer to 1.4:1 this next season now that he is being paid like a featured player, but i have some real doubts about mudiay hindering the offense rather than helping.
your are making excuses for him. If you do that, then you need to start looking at every stat far deeper.
well i could but really the only other player in these ratios that i would look deeper at is paul pierce. everything else has been pretty consistent.
at any rate i left him off the list on purpose because he has been too injured too much of the time to really develop his game.
mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:dk7th wrote:
i think it accounts for what you are asking, since it is defined as "an estimate of teammate field goals a player assisted while he was on the floor."I don't think there is any stat in the NBA that accounts for the "hockey assist" aka the pass that leads to the pass that leads to the bucket... I think it'd be an interesting stat and I'm pretty sure no NBA stat accounts for it. A lot of post players have to pass out and the guy they pass out to has a good angle to get an assist or find an open man. Shaq and Ewing and Duncan would get a ton of these kinds of assists.
Anyway, just a thought. I think what you are posting is quite interesting.
Nice, thanks! - here's just the Knicks for the past two seasons. Looks like they didn't track it before then, or it's not available at least.