Off Topic · Texans RB Arian Foster reveals that he doesn't believe in God (page 1)
Sad, if true (that so few athletes "come out" because of financial consequences), but not unexpected given what you usually hear from pro athletes today. Big reason why I did not want Tebow doing anything good for the Jets.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...
The topic of God was a popular one in the NFL this year after Seattle's improbable 28-22 win over the Green Bay Packers in the NFC Championship.After the win, Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson said that God set his team up for the win. Then there was Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers, who held firm to the belief that God doesn't care "a whole lot about the outcome" of football games.
"He cares about the people involved, but I don't think he's a big football fan," Rodgers said.
Texans running back Arian Foster agrees that God doesn't care about football, but Foster's reason for believing that is slightly different than Rodgers' reason:Foster believes that God doesn't care about football because God doesn't exist.
During an interview with ESPN the Magazine, Foster revealed that he doesn't believe in God.
"If there is a God and he's watching football, there are so many other things he could be doing," Foster said. "There are hungry children and diseases and famine and so much important stuff going on in the world, and he's really blessed your team? It's just weird to me."
Foster's brother Abdul jokes that Arian is "The anti-Tebow,"
The chairman of Openly Secular, Todd Stiefel, believes that Foster is the first professional athlete to openly admit he doesn't believe in God.
"This is unprecedented," Stiefel told ESPN. "He is the first active professional athlete, let alone star, to ever stand up in support of gaining respect for secular Americans."
Foster believes there are other players like him, but they're afraid to open up about their beliefs because of potential backlash.
"You don't want to ruin endorsements," Foster said. "People might say, 'I don't want an atheist representing my team.' "
Foster said that being a star in the NFL allowed him to open up about what he believes.
"I'm established in this league, and as I'm digging deeper into myself and my truth, just being me is more important than being sexy to Pepsi or whoever," Foster said. "After awhile, what's an extra dollar compared to the freedom of being you? That's the choice I made."
The 28-year-old was raised Muslim, but that only lasted until his junior year in high school when he finally told his dad about his beliefs.
"Everybody always says the same thing: You have to have faith," Foster said. "That's my whole thing: Faith isn't enough for me. For people who are struggling with that, they're nervous about telling their families or afraid of the backlash ... man, don't be afraid to be you. I was, for years."
According to the Texans running back, some people just don't understand what it means when he says he's secular.
"I get the devil-worship thing a lot. They'll ask me, 'You worship the devil?' " Foster said. " 'No, bro, I don't believe there's a God, why would I believe there's a devil?' There's a lot of ignorance about non-belief. I don't mean a negative connotation of ignorance. I just mean a lack of understanding, a lack of knowledge, lack of exposure to people like me."
Foster, who's expected to miss some serious time in 2015 after injuring his groin this week, is probably going to have to get to used to people like this.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/DustinHabecker/status/629370990166978560
Click here to view the TweetDon't look for Foster to respond to stuff like that though, the Texans running back said he respects all beliefs.
"I have no ill will toward religion or religious people. I have no quarrels," Foster said. "Believe what you want to believe."
Arian Foster is the 'anti-Tebow,' according to Foster's brother. (USATSI)
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!
DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!
You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
Antony Flew, I think I've heard about him. Interesting, I will look into him.
The Tebow thing was Walt, I don't believe in football.
DrAlphaeus wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
Antony Flew, I think I've heard about him. Interesting, I will look into him.
The Tebow thing was Walt, I don't believe in football.
Football doesn't believe in you, either.
I always get you and Walt confused. Not sure why. Maybe I'll write a book about it in the Off Topic Forum.
jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
Antony Flew, I think I've heard about him. Interesting, I will look into him.
The Tebow thing was Walt, I don't believe in football.
Football doesn't believe in you, either.
I always get you and Walt confused. Not sure why. Maybe I'll write a book about it in the Off Topic Forum.
???
WaltLongmire wrote:...And then there is this one. Not sure how Anthony Flew would react to this...Bertrand Russell would have a laugh, thoughLions safety: God meant for Packers WR Jordy Nelson to get hurt
By John Breech | CBSSports.com
August 24, 2015 3:52 pm ET
After Packers wide receiver Jordy Nelson went down with a serious knee injury during a preseason game with the Steelers on Sunday, one of the first topics of conversation was: Should the NFL shorten its preseason?
Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and Hall of Fame quarterback Troy Aikman both agree that the preseason should be shortened. However, not everyone's on the same page as those two.
According to Lions safety Glover Quin, the length of the preseason doesn't matter because the injuries are going to happen no matter what. Quin believes that players like Nelson are predestined by God to be injured.
"I hated Jordy got hurt, but in my beliefs, and the way I believe, it was -- God meant for Jordy to get hurt," Quin told MLive.com.
Quin basically believes that Nelson would've still gotten hurt even if he sat out the entire preseason because the injury was "meant" to happen.
"If he wouldn't have got hurt [on Sunday], if he wouldn't have played in that game, if he wouldn't have practiced anymore, and the next time he walked on the field would have been opening day, I feel like he would have got hurt opening day," Quin said.
God has been a hot topic this offseason.
Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson said God spoke to him in the NFC title game -- and then there's Arian Foster, who probably has a hard time believing Wilson (or Quin). The Texans running back publicly announced in August that he doesn't believe in God.
As for Nelson's injury, Glover actually sees a silver lining for the Packers: Since Nelson was injured in mid-August, Green Bay's offense will have a few weeks before the regular season starts to figure out how its offense will operate without him.
"They've got three weeks to make adjustments and prepare before opening day, as opposed to it happening opening day and now you're in the season and now Jordy gets hurt," Glover said. "It happening in the preseason, you hate that it happened, but that gives them time to make adjustments and try to find something."
At least the Supreme Deity had the decency to injure Nelson at a time which allows the Packers to adjust.
It's funny, a week or two before jrod brought up Antony Flew, I came across his book "Atheistic Humanism" in a bookstore and snapped a pic of the cover — which I do when I see an interesting book I may want to read someday and want to remember the title. Only put 2 & 2 together afterwards. Prophetic! (Is that how prophecy works?)
Flew did indeed "convert" from atheism in his last years to what looks like deism or maybe pantheism — closer to the creator god of Jefferson or Spinoza who wasn't a personal god meddling with revelations, incarnations, or even the Holy American Game of Gridiron.
Looking into the mess of who exactly authored those last books with Flew... yuck. Looks like a bunch of Christian apologists giddy over this big "get" to their side (even though again, Flew didn't believe in the revelations of any Abrahamic faith) and using an elderly man's fame & trust to co-sign their holy ghostwriting.
But what do I know, it's not like I was there and saw the book authored or anything. 
WaltLongmire wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
Antony Flew, I think I've heard about him. Interesting, I will look into him.
The Tebow thing was Walt, I don't believe in football.
Football doesn't believe in you, either.
I always get you and Walt confused. Not sure why. Maybe I'll write a book about it in the Off Topic Forum.
???
Translation: you arrogant godless types are all the same #sorrynotsorry #blessed
DrAlphaeus wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:...And then there is this one. Not sure how Anthony Flew would react to this...Bertrand Russell would have a laugh, thoughLions safety: God meant for Packers WR Jordy Nelson to get hurt
By John Breech | CBSSports.com
August 24, 2015 3:52 pm ET
After Packers wide receiver Jordy Nelson went down with a serious knee injury during a preseason game with the Steelers on Sunday, one of the first topics of conversation was: Should the NFL shorten its preseason?
Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and Hall of Fame quarterback Troy Aikman both agree that the preseason should be shortened. However, not everyone's on the same page as those two.
According to Lions safety Glover Quin, the length of the preseason doesn't matter because the injuries are going to happen no matter what. Quin believes that players like Nelson are predestined by God to be injured.
"I hated Jordy got hurt, but in my beliefs, and the way I believe, it was -- God meant for Jordy to get hurt," Quin told MLive.com.
Quin basically believes that Nelson would've still gotten hurt even if he sat out the entire preseason because the injury was "meant" to happen.
"If he wouldn't have got hurt [on Sunday], if he wouldn't have played in that game, if he wouldn't have practiced anymore, and the next time he walked on the field would have been opening day, I feel like he would have got hurt opening day," Quin said.
God has been a hot topic this offseason.
Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson said God spoke to him in the NFC title game -- and then there's Arian Foster, who probably has a hard time believing Wilson (or Quin). The Texans running back publicly announced in August that he doesn't believe in God.
As for Nelson's injury, Glover actually sees a silver lining for the Packers: Since Nelson was injured in mid-August, Green Bay's offense will have a few weeks before the regular season starts to figure out how its offense will operate without him.
"They've got three weeks to make adjustments and prepare before opening day, as opposed to it happening opening day and now you're in the season and now Jordy gets hurt," Glover said. "It happening in the preseason, you hate that it happened, but that gives them time to make adjustments and try to find something."
At least the Supreme Deity had the decency to injure Nelson at a time which allows the Packers to adjust.
It's funny, a week or two before jrod brought up Antony Flew, I came across his book "Atheistic Humanism" in a bookstore and snapped a pic of the cover — which I do when I see an interesting book I may want to read someday and want to remember the title. Only put 2 & 2 together afterwards. Prophetic! (Is that how prophecy works?)
Flew did indeed "convert" from atheism in his last years to what looks like deism or maybe pantheism — closer to the creator god of Jefferson or Spinoza who wasn't a personal god meddling with revelations, incarnations, or even the Holy American Game of Gridiron.
Looking into the mess of who exactly authored those last books with Flew... yuck. Looks like a bunch of Christian apologists giddy over this big "get" to their side (even though again, Flew didn't believe in the revelations of any Abrahamic faith) and using an elderly man's fame & trust to co-sign their holy ghostwriting.
But what do I know, it's not like I was there and saw the book authored or anything.
Or bothered to actually read his "There IS a God" book. Yuck! Imagine actually reading something instead of snapping pics or reading Yum! atheist reviews of said books. Don't be afraid, DrA, God loves you anyway. Hopefully even as much as you think is decent.
But keep 'em coming with the evil right wing religionist extremist consipiracy theories. Very entertaining.
DrAlphaeus wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
Antony Flew, I think I've heard about him. Interesting, I will look into him.
The Tebow thing was Walt, I don't believe in football.
Football doesn't believe in you, either.
I always get you and Walt confused. Not sure why. Maybe I'll write a book about it in the Off Topic Forum.
???Translation: you arrogant godless types are all the same #sorrynotsorry #blessed
Subtitle: "I sure hope my passive agressiveness shows my sincere need to be my own God, and that I am truly qualified for the job" #arrestedadolescent #victimmentality
jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:...And then there is this one. Not sure how Anthony Flew would react to this...Bertrand Russell would have a laugh, thoughLions safety: God meant for Packers WR Jordy Nelson to get hurt
By John Breech | CBSSports.com
August 24, 2015 3:52 pm ET
After Packers wide receiver Jordy Nelson went down with a serious knee injury during a preseason game with the Steelers on Sunday, one of the first topics of conversation was: Should the NFL shorten its preseason?
Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and Hall of Fame quarterback Troy Aikman both agree that the preseason should be shortened. However, not everyone's on the same page as those two.
According to Lions safety Glover Quin, the length of the preseason doesn't matter because the injuries are going to happen no matter what. Quin believes that players like Nelson are predestined by God to be injured.
"I hated Jordy got hurt, but in my beliefs, and the way I believe, it was -- God meant for Jordy to get hurt," Quin told MLive.com.
Quin basically believes that Nelson would've still gotten hurt even if he sat out the entire preseason because the injury was "meant" to happen.
"If he wouldn't have got hurt [on Sunday], if he wouldn't have played in that game, if he wouldn't have practiced anymore, and the next time he walked on the field would have been opening day, I feel like he would have got hurt opening day," Quin said.
God has been a hot topic this offseason.
Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson said God spoke to him in the NFC title game -- and then there's Arian Foster, who probably has a hard time believing Wilson (or Quin). The Texans running back publicly announced in August that he doesn't believe in God.
As for Nelson's injury, Glover actually sees a silver lining for the Packers: Since Nelson was injured in mid-August, Green Bay's offense will have a few weeks before the regular season starts to figure out how its offense will operate without him.
"They've got three weeks to make adjustments and prepare before opening day, as opposed to it happening opening day and now you're in the season and now Jordy gets hurt," Glover said. "It happening in the preseason, you hate that it happened, but that gives them time to make adjustments and try to find something."
At least the Supreme Deity had the decency to injure Nelson at a time which allows the Packers to adjust.
It's funny, a week or two before jrod brought up Antony Flew, I came across his book "Atheistic Humanism" in a bookstore and snapped a pic of the cover — which I do when I see an interesting book I may want to read someday and want to remember the title. Only put 2 & 2 together afterwards. Prophetic! (Is that how prophecy works?)
Flew did indeed "convert" from atheism in his last years to what looks like deism or maybe pantheism — closer to the creator god of Jefferson or Spinoza who wasn't a personal god meddling with revelations, incarnations, or even the Holy American Game of Gridiron.
Looking into the mess of who exactly authored those last books with Flew... yuck. Looks like a bunch of Christian apologists giddy over this big "get" to their side (even though again, Flew didn't believe in the revelations of any Abrahamic faith) and using an elderly man's fame & trust to co-sign their holy ghostwriting.
But what do I know, it's not like I was there and saw the book authored or anything.
Or bothered to actually read his "There IS a God" book. Yuck! Imagine actually reading something instead of snapping pics or reading Yum! atheist reviews of said books. Don't be afraid, DrA, God loves you anyway. Hopefully even as much as you think is decent.
But keep 'em coming with the evil right wing religionist extremist consipiracy theories. Very entertaining.
I may read it one day, but reviews help to see if it's worth the time. From what I've read, looks like the co-author Roy Abraham Varghese did a lot of the heavy lifting and it sounds suspect. But happy to be a clown.
jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
Antony Flew, I think I've heard about him. Interesting, I will look into him.
The Tebow thing was Walt, I don't believe in football.
Football doesn't believe in you, either.
I always get you and Walt confused. Not sure why. Maybe I'll write a book about it in the Off Topic Forum.
???Translation: you arrogant godless types are all the same #sorrynotsorry #blessed
Subtitle: "I sure hope my passive agressiveness shows my sincere need to be my own God, and that I am truly qualified for the job" #arrestedadolescent #victimmentality
Your monkey see monkey do style of mocking retort always satisfies, thanks bro.
jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
Antony Flew, I think I've heard about him. Interesting, I will look into him.
The Tebow thing was Walt, I don't believe in football.
Football doesn't believe in you, either.
I always get you and Walt confused. Not sure why. Maybe I'll write a book about it in the Off Topic Forum.
???Translation: you arrogant godless types are all the same #sorrynotsorry #blessed
Subtitle: "I sure hope my passive agressiveness shows my sincere need to be my own God, and that I am truly qualified for the job" #arrestedadolescent #victimmentality
Each of us is our own "god," seems pretty clear at this point in my life.
Glover Quin, on the other hand, by throwing out the predestination BS, is running from the personal responsibility we all have as human beings, and putting out the concept that there is a deity out there somewhere pushing buttons which whether I buy whole wheat or multigrain English muffins at Trader Joes. (Bought both, by the way-perhaps an indication that the supreme being could not make up his or her mind for me.)
So it goes.
DrAlphaeus wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
Antony Flew, I think I've heard about him. Interesting, I will look into him.
The Tebow thing was Walt, I don't believe in football.
Football doesn't believe in you, either.
I always get you and Walt confused. Not sure why. Maybe I'll write a book about it in the Off Topic Forum.
???Translation: you arrogant godless types are all the same #sorrynotsorry #blessed
Subtitle: "I sure hope my passive agressiveness shows my sincere need to be my own God, and that I am truly qualified for the job" #arrestedadolescent #victimmentality
Your monkey see monkey do style of mocking retort always satisfies, thanks bro.
I've heard imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I just didn't realize I would be flattering a monkey, bro. But then, if you're correct, we're all just Rhesus on evolutionary steroids, right?
Or was that your point to begin with?
WaltLongmire wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:jrodmc wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Sad, but I respect the dude foster
Ya know what he will believe one day ..c
Gent just doesn't know it yet!You think he'll believe there is a god one day? Sure it's possible but I seriously doubt it, that's probably just wishful thinking. I think he's been like this since high school and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it.
(Also are you saying God looks like Mike D'Antoni?)
Antony Flew. Dude wrote books on atheism for decades. Then changed his mind based on facts. You're right; anything's possible.
Plus, are you saying you wanted Tebow to flop for the Jets just because he displays his faith? Foster seems a bit more of an open minded secular atheist than you are.
Antony Flew, I think I've heard about him. Interesting, I will look into him.
The Tebow thing was Walt, I don't believe in football.
Football doesn't believe in you, either.
I always get you and Walt confused. Not sure why. Maybe I'll write a book about it in the Off Topic Forum.
???Translation: you arrogant godless types are all the same #sorrynotsorry #blessed
Subtitle: "I sure hope my passive agressiveness shows my sincere need to be my own God, and that I am truly qualified for the job" #arrestedadolescent #victimmentality
Each of us is our own "god," seems pretty clear at this point in my life.Glover Quin, on the other hand, by throwing out the predestination BS, is running from the personal responsibility we all have as human beings, and putting out the concept that there is a deity out there somewhere pushing buttons which whether I buy whole wheat or multigrain English muffins at Trader Joes. (Bought both, by the way-perhaps an indication that the supreme being could not make up his or her mind for me.)
So it goes.
Sort of great circular reasoning you have there, huh? Me = God, God = nothing, Me = buy my own muffins.
Rather than Trader Joes, why not approach the question at a factual level, with really big things, along the lines of origins, meaning, laws of physics, stuff like that?
You can argue Predestination versus Arminianism all day, all week, all month. That particular discussion has only been going for centuries. If you can bother to accept the premise that there is a supreme, uncaused being greater than you and your two muffins, then whether that supreme being is actually in charge of your muffin buying or just creating somethings like say, the universe, DNA, and the nuclear force, is really small potatoes, right?
Your worldview, as you stated in your first premise, essentially decides the question for you. And actually, that scary deity "out there" may have made that decision for you, too.
Boo!