Knicks · When did the New culture start? When did Dolan see the light? (page 1)

After years of mismanagement Dolan hired Mckinsey and since then he fired Grunwald and committed to Phil.

The "come to Jesus" moment we as fans can hope will change the franchise for along time. Its not a starphuch and does not mean stars flock to Knicks and no. 1 picks grow on trees, but a single decision can have long lasting effects.

If a rotting head will infect the rest of the body, Jim Dolan not involved in basketball is a good thing!!
http://nypost.com/2013/11/30/can-the-mba...

"Once you finally know all you can about your talent, you’ve then got to decide what to do with it. Talent management is a McKinsey specialty "

The best line of the entire article. I firmly believe You have to establish this right away, especially when it comes to your roster, and rotation. Can't have players doing what they think they can do, instead of what they know they can do.

IMO this team is in great hands. Despite how things looked last year it's a team being prepared for future success. The team hitting rock bottom was necessary and now things are being structured and built the right way. The best thing Dolan is doing is let Phil and his team do their jobs and get this franchise on the right track.

1. Get rid of non winning players
2. Draft well and restock the prospect pipeline
3. Get the DLeague team in order with better leadership and coaching
4. Bring in team oriented players to fulfill roles and execute the system properly

IMO these are the key things Phil has set in motion for the team's future.

Is it culture change if we don't win?

holfresh wrote:Is it culture change if we don't win?

Does the culture change instantaneously or is it fostered over time with every practice and every good team player added? If you keep bringing in the right players and teaching winning principles the winning will come. The winning is the end result of all the work, preparation and dedication to team philosophy. The process has already begun but you're too biased and jaded to notice.

Tell me what about the changes Phil has made doesn't show a culture change? Is he not looking to add players with a team oriented spirit, higher effort level and IQ? They can't win any games right now so it's impossible to show anything more at this point.

Not trying to be negative but maybe we should wait to see how this year plays out before praising a new culture change lol. To be fair we are coming off a franchise worst 17 wins. Now i expect a much better year but im not jumping on the bandwagon until i see results

At this point Phil has acquired, drafted or resigned every player on the roster. Seems like a new beginning. Can't wait for the season to start.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Is it culture change if we don't win?

Does the culture change instantaneously or is it fostered over time with every practice and every good team player added? If you keep bringing in the right players and teaching winning principles the winning will come. The winning is the end result of all the work, preparation and dedication to team philosophy. The process has already begun but you're too biased and jaded to notice.

Tell me what about the changes Phil has made doesn't show a culture change? Is he not looking to add players with a team oriented spirit, higher effort level and IQ? They can't win any games right now so it's impossible to show anything more at this point.

I'm just amazed how you allow yourselves to be brainwashed by all this mambo jumbo...MJ was taking 25/26 shots a game in season and 27/28 shots a game in the playoffs...Scottie was taking the rest...And when they were covered/doubled, Paxson/Hodges/Kerr hit the open three...Flip the script to Shaq and Kobe..I remember laughing when in an interview Phil said "25 shots a game, that's not basketball"...What triangle??..It's a simple game..Get the ball in the hands of the best players..

It all boils down to winning...Triangle isn't winning anything, In the NBA, good players put in the best position to succeed win games...

Winning is the culture change I want to see...

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Is it culture change if we don't win?

Does the culture change instantaneously or is it fostered over time with every practice and every good team player added? If you keep bringing in the right players and teaching winning principles the winning will come. The winning is the end result of all the work, preparation and dedication to team philosophy. The process has already begun but you're too biased and jaded to notice.

Tell me what about the changes Phil has made doesn't show a culture change? Is he not looking to add players with a team oriented spirit, higher effort level and IQ? They can't win any games right now so it's impossible to show anything more at this point.

I'm just amazed how you allow yourselves to be brainwashed by all this mambo jumbo...MJ was taking 25/26 shots a game in season and 27/28 shots a game in the playoffs...Scottie was taking the rest...And when they were covered/doubled, Paxson/Hodges/Kerr hit the open three...Flip the script to Shaq and Kobe..What triangle??..It's a simple game..Get the ball in the hands of the best players..

It all boils down to winning...Triangle isn't winning anything, In the NBA, good players put in the best position to succeed win games...

PISTONS SPURS??? MAVS??? WARRIORS??? It's not about the Triangle! It's about a TEAM approach to the game. Ball n player movement and playing together. If you have a couple of singularly great players you can lean on great but if not you have to get more from everyone. Phil's last Laker teams did it more as a team as well.

Winning. How doe it happen?

Naturally some of you are very sensitive and are guarding your feelings as not to be disappointed. I understand.

Like anything else you change the input one should yield better results. Build a building where one existed one must knock the old one down first. Build it tall, you must dig deeper. Some will walk by the new deeper foundation and say "hey, how does you go up if your going down?" Then, its "I'll buy into it when its build"...........

Ok, thats cool. No guarantee's. It not that we all jumping around getting fitted for our championship tee's, it just that there is a process that is changed and we excited.

Nalod wrote:Winning. How doe it happen?

Naturally some of you are very sensitive and are guarding your feelings as not to be disappointed. I understand.

Like anything else you change the input one should yield better results. Build a building where one existed one must knock the old one down first. Build it tall, you must dig deeper. Some will walk by the new deeper foundation and say "hey, how does you go up if your going down?" Then, its "I'll buy into it when its build"...........

Ok, thats cool. No guarantee's. It not that we all jumping around getting fitted for our championship tee's, it just that there is a process that is changed and we excited.

Totally agree. Prior to the draft I kept waiting for business as usual and some trade being made like the Dyess draft. Also getting Grant was fantastic. The Knicks added three guys in the draft that could be a part of things for a long time. That is what teams with real owners and real front offices do.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Is it culture change if we don't win?

Does the culture change instantaneously or is it fostered over time with every practice and every good team player added? If you keep bringing in the right players and teaching winning principles the winning will come. The winning is the end result of all the work, preparation and dedication to team philosophy. The process has already begun but you're too biased and jaded to notice.

Tell me what about the changes Phil has made doesn't show a culture change? Is he not looking to add players with a team oriented spirit, higher effort level and IQ? They can't win any games right now so it's impossible to show anything more at this point.

I'm just amazed how you allow yourselves to be brainwashed by all this mambo jumbo...MJ was taking 25/26 shots a game in season and 27/28 shots a game in the playoffs...Scottie was taking the rest...And when they were covered/doubled, Paxson/Hodges/Kerr hit the open three...Flip the script to Shaq and Kobe..What triangle??..It's a simple game..Get the ball in the hands of the best players..

It all boils down to winning...Triangle isn't winning anything, In the NBA, good players put in the best position to succeed win games...

PISTONS SPURS??? MAVS??? WARRIORS??? It's not about the Triangle! It's about a TEAM approach to the game. Ball n player movement and playing together. If you have a couple of singularly great players you can lean on great but if not you have to get more from everyone. Phil's last Laker teams did it more as a team as well.

There are HOF players on those teams...Point is that you need talent and players to win...And you need to win to change the culture...

Nalod wrote:After years of mismanagement Dolan hired Mckinsey and since then he fired Grunwald and committed to Phil.

The "come to Jesus" moment we as fans can hope will change the franchise for along time. Its not a starphuch and does not mean stars flock to Knicks and no. 1 picks grow on trees, but a single decision can have long lasting effects.

If a rotting head will infect the rest of the body, Jim Dolan not involved in basketball is a good thing!!
http://nypost.com/2013/11/30/can-the-mba...

This was as big a starphuck as you have seen by Dolan ..Phil is the highest paid GM ever...And with zero experience at building a team...This is all from name recognition..He was brought in as a concurring hero to restore the Garden to the glory days...By definition it's a starphuck...

My problem is that the "culture" Phil is building isn't sustainable...You can't introduce the triangle if you are thinking about building the franchise for the long term...Not every coach or GM will want to run the triangle going forward..Why limit yourself to the small percentile that are willing to run it..It's why you get coaches like Fisher...Do we only hire Phil's disciples going forward??..How is that a good foundation going forward..It's a short sighted move...

Fisher has to run his own show..It's the only way the players will believe in him and want to run thru walls for him...Right now it's all about Phil...And by the way, how is that a good culture to foster??

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:After years of mismanagement Dolan hired Mckinsey and since then he fired Grunwald and committed to Phil.

The "come to Jesus" moment we as fans can hope will change the franchise for along time. Its not a starphuch and does not mean stars flock to Knicks and no. 1 picks grow on trees, but a single decision can have long lasting effects.

If a rotting head will infect the rest of the body, Jim Dolan not involved in basketball is a good thing!!
http://nypost.com/2013/11/30/can-the-mba...

This was as big a starphuck as you have seen by Dolan ..Phil is the highest paid GM ever...And with zero experience at building a team...This is all from name recognition..He was brought in as a concurring hero to restore the Garden to the glory days...By definition it's a starphuck...

My problem is that the "culture" Phil is building isn't sustainable...You can't introduce the triangle if you are thinking about building the franchise for the long term...Not every coach or GM will want to run the triangle going forward..Why limit yourself to the small percentile that are willing to run it..It's why you get coaches like Fisher...Do we only hire Phil's disciples going forward??..How is that a good foundation going forward..It's a short sighted move...

Fisher has to run his own show..It's the only way the players will believe in him and want to run thru walls for him...Right now it's all about Phil...And by the way, how is that a good culture to foster??

I do agree that the Phil hire was the ultimate starphuck move. Where I disagree and I think you may be contradicting yourself is the system. I agree that talent wins, you do as well, so why be concerned with what system is being ran as far as the future? If the team has true talent, it should adapt to any system going forward in the event of a system change, right?

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:After years of mismanagement Dolan hired Mckinsey and since then he fired Grunwald and committed to Phil.

The "come to Jesus" moment we as fans can hope will change the franchise for along time. Its not a starphuch and does not mean stars flock to Knicks and no. 1 picks grow on trees, but a single decision can have long lasting effects.

If a rotting head will infect the rest of the body, Jim Dolan not involved in basketball is a good thing!!
http://nypost.com/2013/11/30/can-the-mba...

This was as big a starphuck as you have seen by Dolan ..Phil is the highest paid GM ever...And with zero experience at building a team...This is all from name recognition..He was brought in as a concurring hero to restore the Garden to the glory days...By definition it's a starphuck...

My problem is that the "culture" Phil is building isn't sustainable...You can't introduce the triangle if you are thinking about building the franchise for the long term...Not every coach or GM will want to run the triangle going forward..Why limit yourself to the small percentile that are willing to run it..It's why you get coaches like Fisher...Do we only hire Phil's disciples going forward??..How is that a good foundation going forward..It's a short sighted move...

Fisher has to run his own show..It's the only way the players will believe in him and want to run thru walls for him...Right now it's all about Phil...And by the way, how is that a good culture to foster??

I do agree that the Phil hire was the ultimate starphuck move. Where I disagree and I think you may be contradicting yourself is the system. I agree that talent wins, you do as well, so why be concerned with what system is being ran as far as the future? If the team has true talent, it should adapt to any system going forward in the event of a system change, right?

I'm not sure what is meant was by true talent..I don't think Phil is looking at the best talent available and he said as much...He is looking at guys with good personalities..He says guys from good families..Also guys suited for the system which Phil and Mills have said..

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:After years of mismanagement Dolan hired Mckinsey and since then he fired Grunwald and committed to Phil.

The "come to Jesus" moment we as fans can hope will change the franchise for along time. Its not a starphuch and does not mean stars flock to Knicks and no. 1 picks grow on trees, but a single decision can have long lasting effects.

If a rotting head will infect the rest of the body, Jim Dolan not involved in basketball is a good thing!!
http://nypost.com/2013/11/30/can-the-mba...

This was as big a starphuck as you have seen by Dolan ..Phil is the highest paid GM ever...And with zero experience at building a team...This is all from name recognition..He was brought in as a concurring hero to restore the Garden to the glory days...By definition it's a starphuck...

My problem is that the "culture" Phil is building isn't sustainable...You can't introduce the triangle if you are thinking about building the franchise for the long term...Not every coach or GM will want to run the triangle going forward..Why limit yourself to the small percentile that are willing to run it..It's why you get coaches like Fisher...Do we only hire Phil's disciples going forward??..How is that a good foundation going forward..It's a short sighted move...

Fisher has to run his own show..It's the only way the players will believe in him and want to run thru walls for him...Right now it's all about Phil...And by the way, how is that a good culture to foster??

I do agree that the Phil hire was the ultimate starphuck move. Where I disagree and I think you may be contradicting yourself is the system. I agree that talent wins, you do as well, so why be concerned with what system is being ran as far as the future? If the team has true talent, it should adapt to any system going forward in the event of a system change, right?

I'm not sure what is meant was by true talent..I don't think Phil is looking at the best talent available and he said as much...He is looking at guys with good personalities..He says guys from good families..Also guys suited for the system which Phil and Mills have said..

I think he tried to bring in guys with talent and character. This isn't Layden bringing in second round guys that overachieved and overpaying them.

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:After years of mismanagement Dolan hired Mckinsey and since then he fired Grunwald and committed to Phil.

The "come to Jesus" moment we as fans can hope will change the franchise for along time. Its not a starphuch and does not mean stars flock to Knicks and no. 1 picks grow on trees, but a single decision can have long lasting effects.

If a rotting head will infect the rest of the body, Jim Dolan not involved in basketball is a good thing!!
http://nypost.com/2013/11/30/can-the-mba...

This was as big a starphuck as you have seen by Dolan ..Phil is the highest paid GM ever...And with zero experience at building a team...This is all from name recognition..He was brought in as a concurring hero to restore the Garden to the glory days...By definition it's a starphuck...

My problem is that the "culture" Phil is building isn't sustainable...You can't introduce the triangle if you are thinking about building the franchise for the long term...Not every coach or GM will want to run the triangle going forward..Why limit yourself to the small percentile that are willing to run it..It's why you get coaches like Fisher...Do we only hire Phil's disciples going forward??..How is that a good foundation going forward..It's a short sighted move...

Fisher has to run his own show..It's the only way the players will believe in him and want to run thru walls for him...Right now it's all about Phil...And by the way, how is that a good culture to foster??

I do agree that the Phil hire was the ultimate starphuck move. Where I disagree and I think you may be contradicting yourself is the system. I agree that talent wins, you do as well, so why be concerned with what system is being ran as far as the future? If the team has true talent, it should adapt to any system going forward in the event of a system change, right?

I'm not sure what is meant was by true talent..I don't think Phil is looking at the best talent available and he said as much...He is looking at guys with good personalities..He says guys from good families..Also guys suited for the system which Phil and Mills have said..

I think he tried to bring in guys with talent and character. This isn't Layden bringing in second round guys that overachieved and overpaying them.

Lopez is not over paid at 13.5 per??..Jordan Hill just got 4 mil from Indy...Seems like we outbid ourselves...Lopez was the 5/6 best player on Portland who was bumped in the first round of the playoffs...At that salary, he should be the 2/3 best on the team...And he is far from being that type of talent...

The change in culture doesn't start with winning. The things Phil is doing with the personnel from DLeague coaches and players up to the NBA team are the start of the process that leads to sustained success. If you don't have the foundation, structure and an underlying philosophy then just bringing talent won't guarantee prolonged success.

Phil is building more than a roster. I amazes me that some can't see what is going on here. Just having great talent doesn't guarantee success. There's more to it. Phil is taking a comprehensive approach to change the entire organization. He's laying the foundation which will be here beyond him. No one has gone this deep in the last 15 years. It's what needed to be done a long time ago. There's a reason we haven't had a top 4 pick and overhauled the roster with a specific type of players in mind. Gotta open our eyes and ears and pay attention to what's happening.

nixluva wrote:The change in culture doesn't start with winning. The things Phil is doing with the personnel from DLeague coaches and players up to the NBA team are the start of the process that leads to sustained success. If you don't have the foundation, structure and an underlying philosophy then just bringing talent won't guarantee prolonged success.

Phil is building more than a roster. I amazes me that some can't see what is going on here. Just having great talent doesn't guarantee success. There's more to it. Phil is taking a comprehensive approach to change the entire organization. He's laying the foundation which will be here beyond him. No one has gone this deep in the last 15 years. It's what needed to be done a long time ago. There's a reason we haven't had a top 4 pick and overhauled the roster with a specific type of players in mind. Gotta open our eyes and ears and pay attention to what's happening.

I'm just amazed at the massive boner you guys have for DLeague players...This isn't like baseball...Minor leaguers don't usually don't become your starters..If they become your starters then you are a 17 win team...DLeague guys are usually your 10-15 depth guys if they make the team at all...At that point, who cares, they are instantly replaceable...In the playoffs, they get no playing time..How is that a signal that finally, the organization gets it...

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:The change in culture doesn't start with winning. The things Phil is doing with the personnel from DLeague coaches and players up to the NBA team are the start of the process that leads to sustained success. If you don't have the foundation, structure and an underlying philosophy then just bringing talent won't guarantee prolonged success.

Phil is building more than a roster. I amazes me that some can't see what is going on here. Just having great talent doesn't guarantee success. There's more to it. Phil is taking a comprehensive approach to change the entire organization. He's laying the foundation which will be here beyond him. No one has gone this deep in the last 15 years. It's what needed to be done a long time ago. There's a reason we haven't had a top 4 pick and overhauled the roster with a specific type of players in mind. Gotta open our eyes and ears and pay attention to what's happening.

I'm just amazed at the massive boner you guys have for DLeague players...This isn't like baseball...Minor leaguers don't usually don't become your starters..If they become your starters then you are a 17 win team...DLeague guys are usually your 10-15 depth guys if they make the team at all...At that point, who cares, they are instantly replaceable...In the playoffs, they get no playing time..How is that a signal that finally, the organization gets it...

How do you know that the DLeague won't produce important rotation players for this team down the line? It's a commitment to developing players wherever you can. Not just the lottery or top free agents. Your thinking is too limited.

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:After years of mismanagement Dolan hired Mckinsey and since then he fired Grunwald and committed to Phil.

The "come to Jesus" moment we as fans can hope will change the franchise for along time. Its not a starphuch and does not mean stars flock to Knicks and no. 1 picks grow on trees, but a single decision can have long lasting effects.

If a rotting head will infect the rest of the body, Jim Dolan not involved in basketball is a good thing!!
http://nypost.com/2013/11/30/can-the-mba...

This was as big a starphuck as you have seen by Dolan ..Phil is the highest paid GM ever...And with zero experience at building a team...This is all from name recognition..He was brought in as a concurring hero to restore the Garden to the glory days...By definition it's a starphuck...

My problem is that the "culture" Phil is building isn't sustainable...You can't introduce the triangle if you are thinking about building the franchise for the long term...Not every coach or GM will want to run the triangle going forward..Why limit yourself to the small percentile that are willing to run it..It's why you get coaches like Fisher...Do we only hire Phil's disciples going forward??..How is that a good foundation going forward..It's a short sighted move...

Fisher has to run his own show..It's the only way the players will believe in him and want to run thru walls for him...Right now it's all about Phil...And by the way, how is that a good culture to foster??

I do agree that the Phil hire was the ultimate starphuck move. Where I disagree and I think you may be contradicting yourself is the system. I agree that talent wins, you do as well, so why be concerned with what system is being ran as far as the future? If the team has true talent, it should adapt to any system going forward in the event of a system change, right?

I'm not sure what is meant was by true talent..I don't think Phil is looking at the best talent available and he said as much...He is looking at guys with good personalities..He says guys from good families..Also guys suited for the system which Phil and Mills have said..

I think he tried to bring in guys with talent and character. This isn't Layden bringing in second round guys that overachieved and overpaying them.

Lopez is not over paid at 13.5 per??..Jordan Hill just got 4 mil from Indy...Seems like we outbid ourselves...Lopez was the 5/6 best player on Portland who was bumped in the first round of the playoffs...At that salary, he should be the 2/3 best on the team...And he is far from being that type of talent...

Hill shouldn't have been traded for cap space because D'Antoni wouldn't play him on an under 30 win team but he doesn't command true center money. From SI,

Even so, the money looks just about right, if a tiny touch high. Lopez was a strong value at $6.1 million last season and his new deal rewards him a substantial raise, even when adjusted for the rising salary cap. Lopez's $13.5 million average annual value is in a similar ballpark to Tyson Chandler ($13 million) and Omer Asik ($12 million), and he has a strong chance to be the best producer of those three over the full lifetime of this contract. There also aren't any major red flags to cause concern about the length of this agreement. Aside from a hand injury last season, Lopez enjoyed very good health for three-plus seasons after two tough-luck seasons in Phoenix to start his career. He's now firmly in his prime and his effectiveness, from a physical standpoint, should remain level for the entirety of the deal.

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/07/03/robin-l...