Knicks · Espn ranking Knicks 28th this year (page 1)

Jees who knows.

Link?

That is a bit harsh.

My thinking is we're a 30 win team +/- 10 depending on injuries and how the team gels.

They have only past to project the future...
Based on this it is fair assumption.
But past is only a guide... not the destiny.
This team has a chance to make destiny a reality, to be the best they can be.
What I know for sure we will see true colors of all man in this group.
I am looking forward to it.

I think it will be the opposite of many Knicks team from the past- not overwhelming individually (other than Melo) but well functioning, fluid with good defense and consistent. KP will rise within that system at a natural pace as the season continues without being leaned on or asked to force things. 40 to 42 wins. It's not a jump from 17- it's a jump from the previous year's 37 win team- Rob Lopez replacing Tyson, Affalo for Shumpert, Jose and J Grant for Felton and Pablo, Galloway for JR Smith- and with better backup bigs, no Amare or Bargs, - I believe 5 more wins than that bad vibe team is reasonable.

BRIGGS wrote:Jees who knows.

jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

can you ever post a link or are you just too lazy?

Really? That bad?

Heeeeey there, you jive suckas. ESPN brought back its annual NBA franchise future power rankings (Insider only), which means it's once again time to put on our raging caps and vent.

And how does the Worldwide reader view the future of our beloved Knickerbockers? In a word: poop. New York ranks 28th in the league:

Carmelo Anthony, meet Kristaps Porzingis. As the face of the Knicks moves past his prime, a 19-year-old from Latvia represents the future for a franchise with very little to get excited at the moment.

The Knicks' roster, while marginally improved, remains among the bottom five in the league. The management team rates likewise, with a neophyte coach, a buffoonish owner and an unproven team president, Phil Jackson, who just celebrated his 70th birthday.

Thanks to the big 2011 Melo trade, the Knicks won't control its own first-round draft pick next year. They also won't have the salary cap flexibility to make a big splash in free agency until 2017. The positives? Besides the potential of Porzingis, there is also the perpetual appeal of New York as a destination. And the team makes oodles of money and is willing to spend. But we don't believe that's enough to turn it around anytime soon.

They somehow rated the Knicks worse in terms of management and the draft than they did last summer, despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary. I suppose the draft rating could be in relation to next year, when they don't have a pick, though that isn't really a reflection on current management. Also, the Knicks will likely pick up a first-round talent next summer, depending on how well Willy Hernangomez plays for Real Madrid.

This seems like a good time to debut a little theory I've been kicking around for the past few months. The Knicks have always gone about the offseason with a certain philosophy -- pursue big-name guys at all cost, especially scorers. They have lived and (mostly) died by that mindset for so long that it's difficult to view this summer's moves outside of the prism of traditional Knicksthought. It's the reason we hear so many questions like "Who will be Melo's wingman?" and "Who will be their secondary scorer?"

Having watched the Carmelo Anthony Knicks over the past few years I can definitively tell you that these are the least important questions to ask of a Carmelo Anthony Knicks team. You know what's important to the Knicks? Everything other than that. This team needed everything, and they got a little bit of that this summer through free agency, trades and the draft. That sounds like an organization on the rise to me.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/9...

Porzingis is an unknown commodity. We definitely have a better starting 5, but the bench is more about potential than results right now. Until KP can show what he can do, until the bench shows that they can contribute on a regular basis, I expect the Knicks to stay near the bottom of the list.

There's no reason the Knicks should be at the bottom of the list. It's just bias and laziness. Anyone who actually takes the time to look at the talent on this team now would be able to see that it's not going to be anywhere near the bottom like last year. It's just being lazy to suggest that this team is that bad. They wouldn't have been quite as bad last year if Melo was healthy after the trade and was able to play the rest of the season. It was a blessing in disguise since we got KP out of it.

Any team that has Melo, RoLo, O'Quinn, KP and Seraphin at the SF, PF and C spots should be able to compete on the boards and in the post. It's not a sexy roster but there should be enough to be more competitive than 28th. Afflalo, Jose, Jerian, Vujacic and Gallo is enough quality at guard to make it all work.

nixluva wrote:There's no reason the Knicks should be at the bottom of the list. It's just bias and laziness. Anyone who actually takes the time to look at the talent on this team now would be able to see that it's not going to be anywhere near the bottom like last year. It's just being lazy to suggest that this team is that bad. They wouldn't have been quite as bad last year if Melo was healthy after the trade and was able to play the rest of the season. It was a blessing in disguise since we got KP out of it.

Any team that has Melo, RoLo, O'Quinn, KP and Seraphin at the SF, PF and C spots should be able to compete on the boards and in the post. It's not a sexy roster but there should be enough to be more competitive than 28th. Afflalo, Jose, Jerian, Vujacic and Gallo is enough quality at guard to make it all work.

nixluva I dont necessarily disagree with you but we have a bunch of bench players off other players teams who we need to play above the level they have. On top of it we have the worst starting defensive player in the league at PG. Mix it all together and its a pot of unknown. While I may not agree with 28 an would be HIGHLY disappointed with 28 I can see where the thought process is.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:There's no reason the Knicks should be at the bottom of the list. It's just bias and laziness. Anyone who actually takes the time to look at the talent on this team now would be able to see that it's not going to be anywhere near the bottom like last year. It's just being lazy to suggest that this team is that bad. They wouldn't have been quite as bad last year if Melo was healthy after the trade and was able to play the rest of the season. It was a blessing in disguise since we got KP out of it.

Any team that has Melo, RoLo, O'Quinn, KP and Seraphin at the SF, PF and C spots should be able to compete on the boards and in the post. It's not a sexy roster but there should be enough to be more competitive than 28th. Afflalo, Jose, Jerian, Vujacic and Gallo is enough quality at guard to make it all work.

nixluva I dont necessarily disagree with you but we have a bunch of bench players off other players teams who we need to play above the level they have. On top of it we have the worst starting defensive player in the league at PG. Mix it all together and its a pot of unknown. While I may not agree with 28 an would be HIGHLY disappointed with 28 I can see where the thought process is.

Rolo and Afflalo are starters. They are getting Calderon and Melo back and they added the fourth and fifteenth pick in the draft. O'Quinn, Seraphin and Williams should be a huge upgrade from the rotation players they were bringing in last year. I agree with nix. I think lazy is the best way to describe the reporting.

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:There's no reason the Knicks should be at the bottom of the list. It's just bias and laziness. Anyone who actually takes the time to look at the talent on this team now would be able to see that it's not going to be anywhere near the bottom like last year. It's just being lazy to suggest that this team is that bad. They wouldn't have been quite as bad last year if Melo was healthy after the trade and was able to play the rest of the season. It was a blessing in disguise since we got KP out of it.

Any team that has Melo, RoLo, O'Quinn, KP and Seraphin at the SF, PF and C spots should be able to compete on the boards and in the post. It's not a sexy roster but there should be enough to be more competitive than 28th. Afflalo, Jose, Jerian, Vujacic and Gallo is enough quality at guard to make it all work.

nixluva I dont necessarily disagree with you but we have a bunch of bench players off other players teams who we need to play above the level they have. On top of it we have the worst starting defensive player in the league at PG. Mix it all together and its a pot of unknown. While I may not agree with 28 an would be HIGHLY disappointed with 28 I can see where the thought process is.

Rolo and Afflalo are starters. They are getting Calderon and Melo back and they added the fourth and fifteenth pick in the draft. O'Quinn, Seraphin and Williams should be a huge upgrade from the rotation players they were bringing in last year. I agree with nix. I think lazy is the best way to describe the reporting.

Not sure how anybody can disagree, after winning only 17 games. Let me repeat.....we won 17 games out of 82. They could've said we should be lower than 28. Regardless, it's more motivation for the players, and less pressure of expectations. The only direction now is up! Thats the good news.

blkexec wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:There's no reason the Knicks should be at the bottom of the list. It's just bias and laziness. Anyone who actually takes the time to look at the talent on this team now would be able to see that it's not going to be anywhere near the bottom like last year. It's just being lazy to suggest that this team is that bad. They wouldn't have been quite as bad last year if Melo was healthy after the trade and was able to play the rest of the season. It was a blessing in disguise since we got KP out of it.

Any team that has Melo, RoLo, O'Quinn, KP and Seraphin at the SF, PF and C spots should be able to compete on the boards and in the post. It's not a sexy roster but there should be enough to be more competitive than 28th. Afflalo, Jose, Jerian, Vujacic and Gallo is enough quality at guard to make it all work.

nixluva I dont necessarily disagree with you but we have a bunch of bench players off other players teams who we need to play above the level they have. On top of it we have the worst starting defensive player in the league at PG. Mix it all together and its a pot of unknown. While I may not agree with 28 an would be HIGHLY disappointed with 28 I can see where the thought process is.

Rolo and Afflalo are starters. They are getting Calderon and Melo back and they added the fourth and fifteenth pick in the draft. O'Quinn, Seraphin and Williams should be a huge upgrade from the rotation players they were bringing in last year. I agree with nix. I think lazy is the best way to describe the reporting.

Not sure how anybody can disagree, after winning only 17 games. Let me repeat.....we won 17 games out of 82. They could've said we should be lower than 28. Regardless, it's more motivation for the players, and less pressure of expectations. The only direction now is up! Thats the good news.

espn knicks hate continues whats new... compare their season rankings for the last 5 years compared to actual outcomes, have they EVER been right?

ESPN hate? Only one way to prove them wrong and its not with words.
Soon enough the team will take the court and prove them wrong or prove themselves worthy. One and the same.

and if they win, they'll move them up. who cares what they rank?

i think i'll wait for the schoene prediction model and not pay attention to this typical espn tripe. but just for kicks what is the "reasoning" behind this ranking, in a sentence or three?

anyone?

nixluva wrote:There's no reason the Knicks should be at the bottom of the list. It's just bias and laziness. Anyone who actually takes the time to look at the talent on this team now would be able to see that it's not going to be anywhere near the bottom like last year. It's just being lazy to suggest that this team is that bad. They wouldn't have been quite as bad last year if Melo was healthy after the trade and was able to play the rest of the season. It was a blessing in disguise since we got KP out of it.

Any team that has Melo, RoLo, O'Quinn, KP and Seraphin at the SF, PF and C spots should be able to compete on the boards and in the post. It's not a sexy roster but there should be enough to be more competitive than 28th. Afflalo, Jose, Jerian, Vujacic and Gallo is enough quality at guard to make it all work.

I keep telling you, "YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE" A few modest moves on paper doesn't change much. The players and coaching staff have to prove their worth, phills moves have to manifest in to rapid success.

The franchise hit rock bottom last season, and they need a serious bounce back before any national media outlet will give them any credibility

actually - where should they be ranked?

out of 30 teams?

I'll go with rank of 24- just a shy of of being outside of being in contention for the last play off spot.

Denver was 24th with 30 wins, which is sort of where I am thinking we end up, +/- health, injuries & chemistry.

28 is bad, but I'm not sure you can seriously argue we're that much better.

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group...

The ESPN thought process is - if we rank the Knicks 28th, people will talk about it and be surprised or amused and it will drive traffic to our website and we will make money.

nyk4ever wrote:and if they win, they'll move them up. who cares what they rank?

Yup...these ranking things are meaningless at this point.

They have a lot of stat guys with nothing to do right now.

I don't look at any of these things for any sport. Waste of time at this point.

WaltLongmire wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:and if they win, they'll move them up. who cares what they rank?

Yup...these ranking things are meaningless at this point.

They have a lot of stat guys with nothing to do right now.

I don't look at any of these things for any sport. Waste of time at this point.

These rankings are all about "what have you done for me lately?" When the Knicks do something noteworthy on the court, they will move up. No reason to go postal, season hasn't even started yet.

To me it's lazy and stupid to go by the previous season. For one thing they wouldn't do that if we were talking about KG, Allen and Pierce in their 1st year. No they properly assessed the talent and that they would be a top team. Same would go for Lebron and the Heat. NO... This is lazy BS. The team is not even remotely the same as last year. Getting Melo back and all the other additions of solid NBA players and young talent that is on the rise. I'm not saying this is a Title team but they aren't at the bottom anymore either. Aside from last year any decent roster with Melo has never been lower than 37 wins in a full season. What is the logic behind thinking this team won't be better than that?

                        G       GS      MPG     PER
Samuel Dalembert, C	32	21	17.0	11.8   Robin Lopez
Jason Smith, PF	        82	31	21.8	12.1   Kyle O'Quinn
J.R. Smith, SG†	        24	6	25.8	11.6   Arron Afflalo
Shane Larkin, PG	76	22	24.5	10.9   Jerian Grant
Iman Shumpert, SG†	24	24	26.0	11.9   Langston Galloway
Tim Hardaway Jr., SG	70	30	24.0	12.1   Kristaps Porzingis
Quincy Acy, SF	        68	22	18.9	12.0   Kevin Seraphin
Andrea Bargnani, C	29	22	27.1	16.7   Derrick Williams

I am convinced that this is a much more representative roster in terms of having legit NBA talent. A stronger and smarter roster. The players are more unselfish and skilled overall. I think this roster will be stronger on Defense and Rebounds. I think this roster has MUCH fewer issues with personalities and attitudes. They all want to be here.

Melo's team records over the years.

Season	Lg	Team	         W	L	W/L%	Playoffs	        Coaches	                
2014-15	NBA	New York Knicks	 17	65	.207			        D. Fisher  (17-65)	
2013-14	NBA	New York Knicks	 37	45	.451			        M. Woodson (37-45)	
2012-13	NBA	New York Knicks* 54	28	.659	Lost E. Conf. Semis	M. Woodson (54-28)	
2011-12	NBA	New York Knicks* 36	30	.545	Lost E. Conf. 1st Rnd.	M. D (18-24), M. Woodson (18-6)
2010-11	NBA	New York Knicks* 42	40	.512	Lost E. Conf. 1st Rnd.	M. D'Antoni (42-40)	
2009-10	NBA	Denver Nuggets*	 53	29	.646	Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.	G. Karl    (53-29)	
2008-09	NBA	Denver Nuggets*	 54	28	.659	Lost W. Conf. Finals	G. Karl    (54-28)	
2007-08	NBA	Denver Nuggets*	 50	32	.610	Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.	G. Karl    (50-32)	
2006-07	NBA	Denver Nuggets*	 45	37	.549	Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.	G. Karl    (45-37)	
2005-06	NBA	Denver Nuggets*	 44	38	.537	Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.	G. Karl    (44-38)	
2004-05	NBA	Denver Nuggets*	 49	33	.598	Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.	J. Bzdelik (13-15), M. Cooper (4-10), G. Karl (32-8)
2003-04	NBA	Denver Nuggets*	 43	39	.524	Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.	J. Bzdelik (43-39)	

It's clear that any decent team with a healthy Melo is usually able to have a winning record. The last 2 seasons are the only times that it hasn't happened and the dysfunctional causes are gone now IMO. We know the issues with the 37 win team and at the start of last year. Phil purged those players and now this roster is much more talented, balanced and minus the dysfunctional elements. If Melo is healthy it's much more likely this team has a winning record than not.