I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place
BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place
what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.
the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.
players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are
calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more
to start the season i'd like to see:
STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez
BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin
I get a weird vibe from Fisher. He seems more cautious or fragile or something when he is facing the media. Nothing I can put my finger on and no basis behind it but he seems different and less confident to me. Hopefully he has just adjusted to the media scrutiny and won't have any mic'd up in the time out moments this year.
CrushAlot wrote:I get a weird vibe from Fisher. He seems more cautious or fragile or something when he is facing the media. Nothing I can put my finger on and no basis behind it but he seems different and less confident to me. Hopefully he has just adjusted to the media scrutiny and won't have any mic'd up in the time out moments this year.
I thought the training camp press conference with Phil and Mills was interesting..Fisher said a few unprompted things he didn't need to..He said he was not concerned about being fired in which no one asked him the question...He also commented on speculation of Melo not being happy about the off seasons moves when no one asked him the question..Phil and Mills heads immediately looked up when he started the statement..So, I agree, something is up...
holfresh wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I get a weird vibe from Fisher. He seems more cautious or fragile or something when he is facing the media. Nothing I can put my finger on and no basis behind it but he seems different and less confident to me. Hopefully he has just adjusted to the media scrutiny and won't have any mic'd up in the time out moments this year.
I thought the training camp press conference with Phil and Mills was interesting..Fisher said a few unprompted things he didn't need to..He said he was not concerned about being fired in which no one asked him the question...He also commented on speculation of Melo not being happy about the off seasons moves when no one asked him the question..Phil and Mills heads immediately looked up when he started the statement..So, I agree, something is up...
I will stick with my prediction that he does not last the season.
I actually think Fish is focused on the big picture. There's no reason to panic over how much of the Triangle the team is running or how Fish sounds in press conferences. I see a coach that is focused in on his job. He's got a TON of new players to work in who aren't experts in the Triangle. I think this time he wants to make sure the players are able to function playing ball PERIOD! Regardless of being able to run a PERFECT Triangle set at this point. They're defending, moving and passing the ball so at this point that's a good thing. Fish still has time to tighten up the offense.
BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place
I absolutely disagree and it will definitely take time for these guys to get to know how each other plays in this system and they haven't even played a real game yet against any good teams at all. We've played a few preseason games against some bad teams.
I do think Fisher will be on the hot seat if they have a slow start.
Not sure when, but I think there will be pressure for Phil to coach. Or for him to put Rambis in the top spot.
crzymdups wrote:I do think Fisher will be on the hot seat if they have a slow start. Not sure when, but I think there will be pressure for Phil to coach. Or for him to put Rambis in the top spot.
Pressure from who? Most realize this team is better, but still subpar.
knickscity wrote:crzymdups wrote:I do think Fisher will be on the hot seat if they have a slow start. Not sure when, but I think there will be pressure for Phil to coach. Or for him to put Rambis in the top spot.
Pressure from who? Most realize this team is better, but still subpar.
pressure from all the fans that think we are a 45+ win team.
I personally think that he is actually under pressure with above logical expectations and that he better be doing pretty well by mid season.
I think Fisher will benefit a hell of a lot from having KO on the roster. There isn't really a problem child on the roster a la JR, and all of the curent players can play smart basketball; as well as,playing both ends of the court. He has yet to show that he is a coach in my opinion, but only time will tell
mreinman wrote:knickscity wrote:crzymdups wrote:I do think Fisher will be on the hot seat if they have a slow start. Not sure when, but I think there will be pressure for Phil to coach. Or for him to put Rambis in the top spot.
Pressure from who? Most realize this team is better, but still subpar.
pressure from all the fans that think we are a 45+ win team.
I personally think that he is actually under pressure with above logical expectations and that he better be doing pretty well by mid season.
No pressure, just win 30-35. This squad is decent, they should do that with no major issues. Fans dont control anything though, so Fisher will have no pressure from that angle.
First preseason loss and he's on the "Spot".....
Wow.
Nalod wrote:First preseason loss and he's on the "Spot".....Wow.
Thread was started before the game.
I see nothing that would indicate that Fish is on any hot seat this year. He's been working on his rotation and if everyone was healthy he would have a rock solid rotation already. This team is setup to be competitive this year. If he has a decent 1st 20 games I doubt there's any real pressure on him regarding his job this season.
I wish someone could explain to me what they're seeing that would even suggest that Fish isn't a good coach. What have they seen from this roster this season that suggests that he's not getting his players to give 110% every night. All I see is a team full of players giving effort and playing as a team even if they aren't super sharp yet as a group.
nixluva wrote:I see nothing that would indicate that Fish is on any hot seat this year. He's been working on his rotation and if everyone was healthy he would have a rock solid rotation already. This team is setup to be competitive this year. If he has a decent 1st 20 games I doubt there's any real pressure on him regarding his job this season. I wish someone could explain to me what they're seeing that would even suggest that Fish isn't a good coach. What have they seen from this roster this season that suggests that he's not getting his players to give 110% every night. All I see is a team full of players giving effort and playing as a team even if they aren't super sharp yet as a group.
You are right about how the team has looked on the court. As I said in my previous post he seems different and less confident to me. Maybe he is maturing as a coach and with hw he deals with the media. I just get a different vibe from him. It maybe nothing or even a positive.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:I see nothing that would indicate that Fish is on any hot seat this year. He's been working on his rotation and if everyone was healthy he would have a rock solid rotation already. This team is setup to be competitive this year. If he has a decent 1st 20 games I doubt there's any real pressure on him regarding his job this season. I wish someone could explain to me what they're seeing that would even suggest that Fish isn't a good coach. What have they seen from this roster this season that suggests that he's not getting his players to give 110% every night. All I see is a team full of players giving effort and playing as a team even if they aren't super sharp yet as a group.
You are right about how the team has looked on the court. As I said in my previous post he seems different and less confident to me. Maybe he is maturing as a coach and with hw he deals with the media. I just get a different vibe from him. It maybe nothing or even a positive.
I agree that he's carrying himself differently, but I took it that he was just more confident and realizes he doesn't have to talk so much. Not to his players or the media. It just seems like a quiet confidence to me. The way this team is defending and playing loose even if they don't always execute perfectly, is a good sign that Fish is getting thru to his players IMO.
nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:I see nothing that would indicate that Fish is on any hot seat this year. He's been working on his rotation and if everyone was healthy he would have a rock solid rotation already. This team is setup to be competitive this year. If he has a decent 1st 20 games I doubt there's any real pressure on him regarding his job this season. I wish someone could explain to me what they're seeing that would even suggest that Fish isn't a good coach. What have they seen from this roster this season that suggests that he's not getting his players to give 110% every night. All I see is a team full of players giving effort and playing as a team even if they aren't super sharp yet as a group.
You are right about how the team has looked on the court. As I said in my previous post he seems different and less confident to me. Maybe he is maturing as a coach and with hw he deals with the media. I just get a different vibe from him. It maybe nothing or even a positive.
I agree that he's carrying himself differently, but I took it that he was just more confident and realizes he doesn't have to talk so much. Not to his players or the media. It just seems like a quiet confidence to me. The way this team is defending and playing loose even if they don't always execute perfectly, is a good sign that Fish is getting thru to his players IMO.
Good points and he did say he would talk less.
CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:First preseason loss and he's on the "Spot".....Wow.
Thread was started before the game.
Even more compulsively over reactive. Hey, we all have sucky posts once in a while.
dk7th wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place
what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.
the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.
players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are
calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more
to start the season i'd like to see:
STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez
BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin
well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??
let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.
Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place
what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.
the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.
players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are
calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more
to start the season i'd like to see:
STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez
BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin
well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??
let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.
i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.
there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.
i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.
i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.
