This is from todays practice scrimmage. From what I have been reading, it looks like this is not new.
I can see it already, Fisher is going to have this hanging above him pretty quick if the starters don't play better than the bench players (scoreboard wise).
I know Affalo is out but this is still concerning. I really wonder if we need to play the best 5 and stay away from this "keep the bench together" ideology.
Fisher can send a message without making a big show of benching some of the starters by subbing the second unit sooner. Until the season starts and they have a few games under their belt, I dont believe its of great concern right now to Fisher, but something Im sure the Knicks will keep an eye on.
It boils down to the pg's caldron can't get his men open. Grant can
Lopez looked pretty bad on offense against the Celts the other night and it seemed like the plan on offense was to get it into him where he could post up or pass back out. Hopefully that approach is changed a bit. Also, not sure how much his injury is impacting his play.
earthmansurfer wrote:This is from todays practice scrimmage. From what I have been reading, it looks like this is not new.
I can see it already, Fisher is going to have this hanging above him pretty quick if the starters don't play better than the bench players (scoreboard wise).
I know Affalo is out but this is still concerning. I really wonder if we need to play the best 5 and stay away from this "keep the bench together" ideology.
fisher said that "our short term goal this season is about a process of becoming good. and we'll see however far that takes us, but we have to build a foundation for success."
what does your scenario have to do with the coach's mission statement?
This is exactly what I said in a couple of posts.
Im being serious--I think we can have a good team.
The bottom line for ANY coach is to put the right guys out there --and I DO NOT think that right now with Lopez"hurt" or Porzinigsi ready for this pace that we should explore 1st units that play with cohesion.
Right now Id take the entire 2nd unit and play 4 of them with Melo.
C Oquinn
PF Melo
F Williams
G Galloway
G Grant
2nd unit
C-KP
F Admundson
G Early
G Sasha
G Calderon
Seraphin
Thomas
IR Lopez(let him heal up its a long season--hes a back up anyway)
Affalo
BRIGGS wrote:This is exactly what I said in a couple of posts.Im being serious--I think we can have a good team.
The bottom line for ANY coach is to put the right guys out there --and I DO NOT think that right now with Lopez"hurt" or Porzinigsi ready for this pace that we should explore 1st units that play with cohesion.
Right now Id take the entire 2nd unit and play 4 of them with Melo.
C Oquinn
PF Melo
F Williams
G Galloway
G Grant
2nd unit
C-KP
F Admundson
G Early
G Sasha
G Calderon
Seraphin
Thomas
IR Lopez(let him heal up its a long season--hes a back up anyway)
Affalo
I disagree with you on a lot of things.....but we might be the only ones that agree on this.
I think Fisher is trying to stand firm. And he probably thinks the bench will make the starters play better. I think the starters lack of play will force Melo into an injury playing ISO ball or create some locker room cancer.
blkexec wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This is exactly what I said in a couple of posts.Im being serious--I think we can have a good team.
The bottom line for ANY coach is to put the right guys out there --and I DO NOT think that right now with Lopez"hurt" or Porzinigsi ready for this pace that we should explore 1st units that play with cohesion.
Right now Id take the entire 2nd unit and play 4 of them with Melo.
C Oquinn
PF Melo
F Williams
G Galloway
G Grant
2nd unit
C-KP
F Admundson
G Early
G Sasha
G Calderon
Seraphin
Thomas
IR Lopez(let him heal up its a long season--hes a back up anyway)
Affalo
I disagree with you on a lot of things.....but we might be the only ones that agree on this.
I think Fisher is trying to stand firm. And he probably thinks the bench will make the starters play better. I think the starters lack of play will force Melo into an injury playing ISO ball or create some locker room cancer.
I agree with this - and I said this in one of the threads bragging about our 'depth' that while we had a lot of nice players - they were bench talent, not starting caliber talent.
Its sad that Grant and Galloway are outplaying our starting back court. Maybe Fisher doesn't want to start Grant & Galloway because he doesn't think they're ready for prime time - but I'm not so sure Calderon is or will be ever again. You can't say that about G&G.
franco12 wrote:blkexec wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This is exactly what I said in a couple of posts.Im being serious--I think we can have a good team.
The bottom line for ANY coach is to put the right guys out there --and I DO NOT think that right now with Lopez"hurt" or Porzinigsi ready for this pace that we should explore 1st units that play with cohesion.
Right now Id take the entire 2nd unit and play 4 of them with Melo.
C Oquinn
PF Melo
F Williams
G Galloway
G Grant
2nd unit
C-KP
F Admundson
G Early
G Sasha
G Calderon
Seraphin
Thomas
IR Lopez(let him heal up its a long season--hes a back up anyway)
Affalo
I disagree with you on a lot of things.....but we might be the only ones that agree on this.
I think Fisher is trying to stand firm. And he probably thinks the bench will make the starters play better. I think the starters lack of play will force Melo into an injury playing ISO ball or create some locker room cancer.
I agree with this - and I said this in one of the threads bragging about our 'depth' that while we had a lot of nice players - they were bench talent, not starting caliber talent.
Its sad that Grant and Galloway are outplaying our starting back court. Maybe Fisher doesn't want to start Grant & Galloway because he doesn't think they're ready for prime time - but I'm not so sure Calderon is or will be ever again. You can't say that about G&G.
Our current starters are past (including Melo) and bench is our future.
If our future will outplay our past I will be very happy regardless of we will be winning or losing games.
The team building process is all about finding out if we have peaces for future team already or still need to search in certain areas.
Winning for the sake of winning is not what we should do. There is no rush and there is no diff if we will 27 or 37 games.
BRIGGS wrote:This is exactly what I said in a couple of posts.Im being serious--I think we can have a good team.
The bottom line for ANY coach is to put the right guys out there --and I DO NOT think that right now with Lopez"hurt" or Porzinigsi ready for this pace that we should explore 1st units that play with cohesion.
Right now Id take the entire 2nd unit and play 4 of them with Melo.
C Oquinn
PF Melo
F Williams
G Galloway
G Grant
2nd unit
C-KP
F Admundson
G Early
G Sasha
G Calderon
Seraphin
Thomas
IR Lopez(let him heal up its a long season--hes a back up anyway)
Affalo
Briggs, I agree. That starting five is clearly our top five players right now.
Afflalo I think would be a great sixth man once healthy, or have Galloway be the sixth man.
Do we have any info on Robin Lopez's injury?
crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This is exactly what I said in a couple of posts.Im being serious--I think we can have a good team.
The bottom line for ANY coach is to put the right guys out there --and I DO NOT think that right now with Lopez"hurt" or Porzinigsi ready for this pace that we should explore 1st units that play with cohesion.
Right now Id take the entire 2nd unit and play 4 of them with Melo.
C Oquinn
PF Melo
F Williams
G Galloway
G Grant
2nd unit
C-KP
F Admundson
G Early
G Sasha
G Calderon
Seraphin
Thomas
IR Lopez(let him heal up its a long season--hes a back up anyway)
Affalo
Briggs, I agree. That starting five is clearly our top five players right now.
Afflalo I think would be a great sixth man once healthy, or have Galloway be the sixth man.
Do we have any info on Robin Lopez's injury?
I liked the way Affalo looked when he got that small amt of pT but we need him to get 100% healthy. With a hamstring that gets pulled a second time--we need to give him time. Lets see Galloway start for now and then if we need adjustment then we can always go that way. I like Grant over Calderon and Williams over KP w Oquinn at C.
I still think it's a little premature to be making these kinds of calls right now. Let's see how the first half dozen or so games go. If Calderon continues to be aggressive with his shots, the way he was with that last Celtics game, this will turn out to be not much of an issue at all, at least for the first half of the season. And that's another advantage that Sasha has. He's not afraid to take shots. And he's at least a little more consistent than JR was.
I just don't like the idea of throwing Grant and Gallo out there in the starting line-up from game 1. Let's give them some real regular season NBA experience together before we go that route. And let's hope that Melo's little cold spell (thank you Clyde) is done with by Wednesday night.
dk7th wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:This is from todays practice scrimmage. From what I have been reading, it looks like this is not new.
I can see it already, Fisher is going to have this hanging above him pretty quick if the starters don't play better than the bench players (scoreboard wise).
I know Affalo is out but this is still concerning. I really wonder if we need to play the best 5 and stay away from this "keep the bench together" ideology.
fisher said that "our short term goal this season is about a process of becoming good. and we'll see however far that takes us, but we have to build a foundation for success."
what does your scenario have to do with the coach's mission statement?
"A process of becoming good" sounds like an excuse to me, like a placeholder. It means that whatever happens - "But we are getting better."
So, to answer your question, the current scenario is a dangerous situation for a new coach to be in. We basically have a rookie PG, an undrafted 2nd year PG/SG, an almost out of the league Williams and a couple of other guys beating on the starters regularly. What this means, in clearer terms, is that Calderon and Sasha/Affalo are not going to cut it. I would lean more towards the Calderon factor and understand Affalo is hurt (but that might be an ongoing problem). We are going to destroy our inside presence with fouls having Calderon out there. All for the benifit of his slow pace and ability to shoot?
What future is there in starting Calderon when his career is near ending when the coach says "a process of becoming good"? By the time we are good he will be gone, this makes little sense.
BRIGGS wrote:This is exactly what I said in a couple of posts.Im being serious--I think we can have a good team.
The bottom line for ANY coach is to put the right guys out there --and I DO NOT think that right now with Lopez"hurt" or Porzinigsi ready for this pace that we should explore 1st units that play with cohesion.
Right now Id take the entire 2nd unit and play 4 of them with Melo.
C Oquinn
PF Melo
F Williams
G Galloway
G Grant
2nd unit
C-KP
F Admundson
G Early
G Sasha
G Calderon
Seraphin
Thomas
IR Lopez(let him heal up its a long season--hes a back up anyway)
Affalo
Agreed, but I would put Lopez in as a starter (he is hurt?). I think KP is not really ready for the starting lineup and the 2nd unit clearly is playing well.
Maybe later on we bring KP back in but I think it is bad to play guys based on popularity or just fit, if that is the case with KP.
We need DW's offense and energy off the bench but I would certainly start Grant.
I am so over Calderon. They are making a huge mistake. He is absolutely terrible defensively. These young PG's will run circles around him like they did Felton. Offensively he can't break down the D so this current Starting lineup will struggle to score if Melo isn't making shots. KP will struggle dearly and will be related to a 7'3 jump shooter. No drive and dish from the PG leading to easy baskets.
PG Grant
SG AFFALO
SF Melo
PF KP
C Lopez
I like Galloway off the bench as a combo guard with DW at SF. Calderon at backup PG. Big O at C & Serafin at PF.
So Fisher almost has it right. He may still start Grant over Calderon opening night of I give it a week
I think we need to give Jose several games to prove himself and I also think he deserves it. We need a knock down shooter when they double Melo
I think you give Calderon 10 games to prove himself, and if we're 2-8 or worst, time to give him the permanent starter hook.
Grant, should be closing games for sure, and him and Galloway are the best back court the Knicks have right now.
helloharv wrote:I think we need to give Jose several games to prove himself and I also think he deserves it. We need a knock down shooter when they double Melo
That's Affalo, KP & Melo. And the only way they are going to get open looks is with guard penetration. We are going to be the same inefficient jump shooting team, jacking up contested 3's just like we have the past 2 seasons. A ton of east/west passing behind the arc. Yuck!
