Knicks · Postgame observations vs. atlanta (page 3)
mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.
blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:TPercy wrote:mreinman wrote:aside from the turnovers, KP did not play that bad. His shot will come but at least he is not forcing them.I think his productivity would be up a lot offensively if he was with Grant. He works well in those pick and roll situations where KP can pull up, draw a foul on the way to the basket, or clean up after a missed grant layup.
Move gallo and dwill / oquin to the starting lineup. ...kp and jose to the bench.
I prefer dwill because most teams SFs are PFs....and it's not fair to put a 7'3 guy on todays PFs. Plus in the 2nd unit its KPs team....melo is not in his way. Allows kp to grow into the triangle as the alpha dog.....which is the future. Deferring to melo is a bad habit to develop as afuture franchize player.
Jose will play better next to grant.....he can be the off guard instead of guarding quicker PGs. Gallo works because of his defense and 3pt shooting.
This team doesn't have the fire power to start off slow. ...the starting unit needs to be better than the bench to win games this season.
They are trying to protect KP..He doesn't go on the court unless Melo is there..I'm thinking they want to get him open looks when Melo is doubled to build his confidence.But it's just not KP..We have a starting lineup where only one player plays 30 minutes a game..That's an issue..
Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.
That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Knixkik wrote:dk7th wrote:better opponent, worse results. more pressure leads to crumbling execution and crumbling substitution patterns. fisher needs to read the writing on the wall: calderon is a liability against the quicker playmaking guards out there. and fisher must resist the urge to try to stay in games by experimenting with dribby-drabby substitutions. comes across as desperate and befuddled. these are the two biggest issues/takeaways for this game. would it be so bad to have calderon and grant work the backcourt with o'quinn and williams? it'd be worth a try in my opinion.and not enough triangle out there. guess when you fall behind thanks to a sieve-like backcourt of sasha and jose then you scrap the plan, right fish? start galloway and afflalo when he gets back.
melo is it age? wearing down? injury? low bbiq? all of these things? people here say he is dealing with injury still. bad news. reggie says he has no legs. bad news. i am not hating here but i wonder if this is the beginning of the end.... his minutes need to be curtailed. like 24 minutes a game until he shows he has the legs and wind.10-27 and 0-7 rom 3. sorry but this is ridiculous.
williams a step back for him but i think this is on fisher. he should not have wiliams out there with melo... ever. he was rotated in a minute after galloway and o'quinn came in. that's a mistake by fisher.
lopez first time he demonstrated some real floor impact. i like the little leftie hook he has. still would like to see more triangle run with him out there. get him to work on his passing game.
o'quinn/thomas good workmanlike contributions.
grant looks good in spurts but it looks like he needs to work on his stroke, and as nixluva pointed out... a change of pace dribble is an important skill to develop.
calderon/vujacic as i have maintained, neither have any business getting minutes. if calderon could actually shoot at a high clip then his defense would be forgivable. but... no. i give fisher another 5 games to make an executive decision.
porzingis tough game for him but he seems like the type of player who will find a way to contribute no matter what. those threes are concerning though. can we see more triangle when he's on the court please?Carmelo played his 2nd game in the past 9 months. Most players coming back from injury take awhile to get into a rhythm. If you have ever played ball and returned from an injury or just taken a few months off from playing, you will know it takes awhile to get timing and rhythm back, especially shooting the ball. He is the least of the concern. The concern is our starting back-court, as you stated. Good news is we have a couple guys off the bench more than capable. Bad news is how long will Fisher let Calderon continue to hurt this team as a starter. As a reserve, i think he offers some good, but we will continue to get off to slow starts with him, especially if he's not shooting the ball well.
if he is not all the way back, why 27 shots?
he should not be taking 27 shots even if he was in mid season form (unless he is red hot)
The Atlanta Hawks are a small-ball team that becomes weak inside without the tandem Horford & Milsap
Coach Fisher's decision-making lineups and Melo's 27 shot leadership loss the first game of the season.
The Atlanta Hawks shot 8-13 from downtown in the first half while the Knicks starters shot 12% from downtown to give the Hawks a 16 points lead at halftime.
If Calderon could stop opposing pg penetration it would allow his teammates to focus on the player there defending. Teague & Schroder embarrassed Calderon tonite.
The previous game vs the Bucks, Fisher beat the Bucks with a 3-guard lineup of Grant, Galloway, and Sasha veteran leadership at playing both guard positions (combo-guard) .. Fisher did not put the 3 guard lineup on the court in the Hawks game.
Which left young guards Grant & Galloway with no direction other than give the ball to Melo.
ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.
Knixkik wrote:dk7th wrote:better opponent, worse results. more pressure leads to crumbling execution and crumbling substitution patterns. fisher needs to read the writing on the wall: calderon is a liability against the quicker playmaking guards out there. and fisher must resist the urge to try to stay in games by experimenting with dribby-drabby substitutions. comes across as desperate and befuddled. these are the two biggest issues/takeaways for this game. would it be so bad to have calderon and grant work the backcourt with o'quinn and williams? it'd be worth a try in my opinion.and not enough triangle out there. guess when you fall behind thanks to a sieve-like backcourt of sasha and jose then you scrap the plan, right fish? start galloway and afflalo when he gets back.
melo is it age? wearing down? injury? low bbiq? all of these things? people here say he is dealing with injury still. bad news. reggie says he has no legs. bad news. i am not hating here but i wonder if this is the beginning of the end.... his minutes need to be curtailed. like 24 minutes a game until he shows he has the legs and wind.10-27 and 0-7 rom 3. sorry but this is ridiculous.
williams a step back for him but i think this is on fisher. he should not have wiliams out there with melo... ever. he was rotated in a minute after galloway and o'quinn came in. that's a mistake by fisher.
lopez first time he demonstrated some real floor impact. i like the little leftie hook he has. still would like to see more triangle run with him out there. get him to work on his passing game.
o'quinn/thomas good workmanlike contributions.
grant looks good in spurts but it looks like he needs to work on his stroke, and as nixluva pointed out... a change of pace dribble is an important skill to develop.
calderon/vujacic as i have maintained, neither have any business getting minutes. if calderon could actually shoot at a high clip then his defense would be forgivable. but... no. i give fisher another 5 games to make an executive decision.
porzingis tough game for him but he seems like the type of player who will find a way to contribute no matter what. those threes are concerning though. can we see more triangle when he's on the court please?Carmelo played his 2nd game in the past 9 months. Most players coming back from injury take awhile to get into a rhythm. If you have ever played ball and returned from an injury or just taken a few months off from playing, you will know it takes awhile to get timing and rhythm back, especially shooting the ball. He is the least of the concern. The concern is our starting back-court, as you stated. Good news is we have a couple guys off the bench more than capable. Bad news is how long will Fisher let Calderon continue to hurt this team as a starter. As a reserve, i think he offers some good, but we will continue to get off to slow starts with him, especially if he's not shooting the ball well.
I think the "2nd game in 9 months" is all the more reason not to take 27 shots. It is bad for him and the team as a whole.
Would like to see him distributing more (he had 5 assists the other night.) I think until his shot is back he should work on expanding his game, not focussing it.
27 shots in 32 minutes is insane. How can our team have any continuity?
Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.
Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.
Kemet wrote:Was the Hawks the better opponent? I dont think so
The Atlanta Hawks are a small-ball team that becomes weak inside without the tandem Horford & Milsap
Coach Fisher's decision-making lineups and Melo's 27 shot leadership loss the first game of the season.
The Atlanta Hawks shot 8-13 from downtown in the first half while the Knicks starters shot 12% from downtown to give the Hawks a 16 points lead at halftime.
If Calderon could stop opposing pg penetration it would allow his teammates to focus on the player there defending. Teague & Schroder embarrassed Calderon tonite.
The previous game vs the Bucks, Fisher beat the Bucks with a 3-guard lineup of Grant, Galloway, and Sasha veteran leadership at playing both guard positions (combo-guard) .. Fisher did not put the 3 guard lineup on the court in the Hawks game.
Which left young guards Grant & Galloway with no direction other than give the ball to Melo.
At some point, you have to accept when a team is better than you..Horford was taking wide open threes..Our back court couldn't keep up with theirs..I still don't know who was assigned to defend Korver..We got beat by a better team..
Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.
What did Melo do to compliment his teammates performance on offense/defense? Nothing!
Melo did nothing to stop opponents Horford, Milsap, Splitter, and Teague inside scoring.
Melo shot 10-27 giving out 3 ast to teammates, the Knicks never had the lead in the game with Melo on the court.
ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.
Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.
Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.
Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.
Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.
Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.
He's not the same player though. He's 31 and on the wrong side of his prime. He may get his sea legs sooner or later, but at the expense of the team?!! That's bad for team unity and chemistry. That's cancerous selfish talk.
This isn't the ISO Woodson days any longer, move the dam rock to the open man, stop jab stepping when you clearly lost a step...
Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.
Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.
Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.
this is a mind set as to what happens when melo is off and melo wants/needs to be on. This is not the first 4-5 games.
He will do this whenever he is off. This in not the new improved melo.
ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.
Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.
Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.He's not the same player though. He's 31 and on the wrong side of his prime. He may get his sea legs sooner or later, but at the expense of the team?!! That's bad for team unity and chemistry. That's cancerous selfish talk.
This isn't the ISO Woodson days any longer, move the dam rock to the open man, stop jab stepping when you clearly lost a step...
I agree that ball movement will be the key. Melo's main value will be hitting big shots when they are needed. Over the course of an 82-game season, we are on the same page here. I am just speaking to understanding what Melo is doing in the very-short term. And i disagree, he has not showed signs of losing a step. He has struggled with injuries in the past couple of years, and much of the time has played through it, with what will obviously be lesser results. But playing through injuries, and a declining skill-set are 2 different things.
mreinman wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.
Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.
Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.this is a mind set as to what happens when melo is off and melo wants/needs to be on. This is not the first 4-5 games.
He will do this whenever he is off. This in not the new improved melo.
New and improved? He is coming off major injury. This is just Melo trying to get back into playing rhymth and getting in reps against real life competition.
Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.
They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.
I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.
Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!
If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.
You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...
Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.
Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.
Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.this is a mind set as to what happens when melo is off and melo wants/needs to be on. This is not the first 4-5 games.
He will do this whenever he is off. This in not the new improved melo.
New and improved? He is coming off major injury. This is just Melo trying to get back into playing rhymth and getting in reps against real life competition.
new and improved meaning new unselfish melo who wants criticism and is willing to modify his game for the better of the team.
These guys aren't robots..The switch doesn't go on when the ball is jumped at center..If anyone here has played basketball for real, you know you lose your game after two or three days of not playing...8 month later, wake up guys...
holfresh wrote:Am I the only one excited to see Melo move like the old Melo??..Plant his feet and cut for the first time since his surgery??..I was scared he was tentative in the preseason and first game that he might be in the LeBron mode of decline...He planted his feet, blew by his opponent, and cut off his left side..He is excited to see it's still there...80 games to go...
These guys aren't robots..The switch doesn't go on when the ball is jumped at center..If anyone here has played basketball for real, you know you lose your game after two or three days of not playing...8 month later, wake up guys...
Completely agree. I was trying to say this earlier. People are so quick to say he's lost a step, or whatever. The guy needs time to get back to playing basketball at this level.
Knixkik wrote:i think most agree that rust is a factor. However the issue with melo has always been contributions besides scoring. I understand it will take time for his scoring touch to come back but he should focus more on defense and creating looks for others like porzingis, lopez,williams etc.holfresh wrote:Am I the only one excited to see Melo move like the old Melo??..Plant his feet and cut for the first time since his surgery??..I was scared he was tentative in the preseason and first game that he might be in the LeBron mode of decline...He planted his feet, blew by his opponent, and cut off his left side..He is excited to see it's still there...80 games to go...
These guys aren't robots..The switch doesn't go on when the ball is jumped at center..If anyone here has played basketball for real, you know you lose your game after two or three days of not playing...8 month later, wake up guys...Completely agree. I was trying to say this earlier. People are so quick to say he's lost a step, or whatever. The guy needs time to get back to playing basketball at this level.
Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Am I the only one excited to see Melo move like the old Melo??..Plant his feet and cut for the first time since his surgery??..I was scared he was tentative in the preseason and first game that he might be in the LeBron mode of decline...He planted his feet, blew by his opponent, and cut off his left side..He is excited to see it's still there...80 games to go...
These guys aren't robots..The switch doesn't go on when the ball is jumped at center..If anyone here has played basketball for real, you know you lose your game after two or three days of not playing...8 month later, wake up guys...Completely agree. I was trying to say this earlier. People are so quick to say he's lost a step, or whatever. The guy needs time to get back to playing basketball at this level.
You have to understand that some here live on riding Melo...They didn't see us down 20+ points in the 3rd qt and the reason for that..The saw Melo taking 27 shots in the box score..Nothing u can do about that...
holfresh wrote:blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:TPercy wrote:mreinman wrote:aside from the turnovers, KP did not play that bad. His shot will come but at least he is not forcing them.I think his productivity would be up a lot offensively if he was with Grant. He works well in those pick and roll situations where KP can pull up, draw a foul on the way to the basket, or clean up after a missed grant layup.
Move gallo and dwill / oquin to the starting lineup. ...kp and jose to the bench.
I prefer dwill because most teams SFs are PFs....and it's not fair to put a 7'3 guy on todays PFs. Plus in the 2nd unit its KPs team....melo is not in his way. Allows kp to grow into the triangle as the alpha dog.....which is the future. Deferring to melo is a bad habit to develop as afuture franchize player.
Jose will play better next to grant.....he can be the off guard instead of guarding quicker PGs. Gallo works because of his defense and 3pt shooting.
This team doesn't have the fire power to start off slow. ...the starting unit needs to be better than the bench to win games this season.
They are trying to protect KP..He doesn't go on the court unless Melo is there..I'm thinking they want to get him open looks when Melo is doubled to build his confidence.But it's just not KP..We have a starting lineup where only one player plays 30 minutes a game..That's an issue..
There is still a pruning process going on for Fisher at this point. Playing time will change as he comes to trust certain players and fine tunes the rotation, and as some player recover.
Aflalo is out, some guys are still feeling the effects of injuries, and because we have some depth, Fisher doesn't feel the need to rush our rookies into increased roles.
Don't see the minutes thing as being important at this point in the season, especially given the fact that, for the most part, this is an entirely new group of players.
Figure that you are talking about playing time and the team chemistry thing, but if you don't know which pieces fit perfectly at this point, its hard to force the issue. Pre-season is not the regular season, especially with a new group of players playing in a offense that doesn't come natural to today's players.
Interesting that THJ has not been able to fit in yet with Atlanta's offense, which is coming from a coach who worked under Popovich. Lots of movement in that offense...little standing around. I expect that he will pick it up eventually, but some players need time to learn. Maybe its their D which is giving him issues, though.
Almost all of Atlanta's key players were on the team last year, and Splitter is coming from SA, where he played under Budenholzer for a couple of years when he was an assistant coach on there.
By the end of the year Anthony, Aflalo, KP, Grant, and Galloway will all be playig 30+MPG, IMO...barring injuries, or course. O'Quinn, Williams, and Lopez will be in the higher 20's.
I'm looking at an evolving process at this point, not a finished product.