mreinman wrote:so people are calling for dummy-Dwil to play 24.725 minutes per game, why? Cause? Perhaps our coaching staff sees something that us genius's don't see?
The same coaching staff that trots out Calderon? Maybe they do see something different. Also, if Williams played that many minutes he make rival Mudiay for most turnovers
I am torn on calderon. He is a huge problem but not much can be done at the moment. Starting grant now would be a bad idea.
yellowboy90@ 11/5/2015 1:01 PM
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:so people are calling for dummy-Dwil to play 24.725 minutes per game, why? Cause? Perhaps our coaching staff sees something that us genius's don't see?
The same coaching staff that trots out Calderon? Maybe they do see something different. Also, if Williams played that many minutes he make rival Mudiay for most turnovers
I am torn on calderon. He is a huge problem but not much can be done at the moment. Starting grant now would be a bad idea.
Start Gallo and have Grant come in moving Gallo to the two.
mreinman@ 11/5/2015 1:03 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:so people are calling for dummy-Dwil to play 24.725 minutes per game, why? Cause? Perhaps our coaching staff sees something that us genius's don't see?
The same coaching staff that trots out Calderon? Maybe they do see something different. Also, if Williams played that many minutes he make rival Mudiay for most turnovers
I am torn on calderon. He is a huge problem but not much can be done at the moment. Starting grant now would be a bad idea.
Start Gallo and have Grant come in moving Gallo to the two.
probably 1 or 2 games away from happening
WaltLongmire@ 11/5/2015 1:07 PM
Have not seen enough progress with Calderon. Said I would give him 5 games...5 games gone and there has been little progress.
Hard to justify playing him the way they now are if he does not produce.
Really wanted him to be a bridge for Grant's emergence...doesn't seem to be happening.
Have said this before-Jose needed to retool his body- try to come in like Prigs. He might have come in healthy, but he looks the same physically.
I don't think off season weight training is an option anymore...especially for older players.
Just don't think this team is good enough to carry Calderon at this point.
mreinman@ 11/5/2015 1:14 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Have not seen enough progress with Calderon. Said I would give him 5 games...5 games gone and there has been little progress.
Hard to justify playing him the way they now are if he does not produce.
Really wanted him to be a bridge for Grant's emergence...doesn't seem to be happening.
Have said this before-Jose needed to retool his body- try to come in like Prigs. He might have come in healthy, but he looks the same physically.
I don't think off season weight training is an option anymore...especially for older players.
Just don't think this team is good enough to carry Calderon at this point.
you keep thinking that his shots will just start to fall eventually but at this point, those legs just may never let that happen.
fishmike@ 11/5/2015 1:21 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Have not seen enough progress with Calderon. Said I would give him 5 games...5 games gone and there has been little progress.
Hard to justify playing him the way they now are if he does not produce.
Really wanted him to be a bridge for Grant's emergence...doesn't seem to be happening.
Have said this before-Jose needed to retool his body- try to come in like Prigs. He might have come in healthy, but he looks the same physically.
I don't think off season weight training is an option anymore...especially for older players.
Just don't think this team is good enough to carry Calderon at this point.
fisher is stuck. Cant bench him because Grant isnt ready and you need Jose still, but playing hurts just as bad. Two people that are well aware of how poorly he's played are Jose and Fisher.
From what I have seen the best way to get anything useful from Jose is play him at SG in the 2nd unit next to Grant for 15 minutes. Basically use him as shooter off the bench
EnySpree@ 11/5/2015 1:24 PM
Fishmike is on point. I totally agree and that's not because you're my cousin
mreinman@ 11/5/2015 1:24 PM
fishmike wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Have not seen enough progress with Calderon. Said I would give him 5 games...5 games gone and there has been little progress.
Hard to justify playing him the way they now are if he does not produce.
Really wanted him to be a bridge for Grant's emergence...doesn't seem to be happening.
Have said this before-Jose needed to retool his body- try to come in like Prigs. He might have come in healthy, but he looks the same physically.
I don't think off season weight training is an option anymore...especially for older players.
Just don't think this team is good enough to carry Calderon at this point.
fisher is stuck. Cant bench him because Grant isnt ready and you need Jose still, but playing hurts just as bad. Two people that are well aware of how poorly he's played are Jose and Fisher.
From what I have seen the best way to get anything useful from Jose is play him at SG in the 2nd unit next to Grant for 15 minutes. Basically use him as shooter off the bench
you would think so (and I did to) but Jose may have turned into the worst shooter in the league.
ChuckBuck@ 11/5/2015 1:24 PM
Sorry, but if you don't change things, alot of the media and fan doubt and pressure will start creeping into the lockerroom, if it hasn't already.
The Talking heads aren't always right, but in this case, just plain as day. 34 years old, can't sink J's, can't guard his man(any man), can't even entry pass correctly(see steal and 1 man fast break dunk by Lebron last night on lazy pass to Melo).
You gotta make changes. You have to make adjustments. It's called coaching.
herkyJerky@ 11/5/2015 1:40 PM
franco12 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:d will is not playing nearly enough
We totally stop pushing the pace, which co-inside with d will and grants minutes sinking
Lopez is really not that good on both ends
KOQ..2 minutes here, 2 minutes there, 3 minutes after the half
And every big we have other than KP, holds the ball for 7 seconds or more, evident of the last 2 games which resulted in us scoring just 86 and 84 points
SOMETHING has to change back to how we played in the preseason
Did Williams sleep with Fishers GF? What gives with the drop in minutes?
He is +19 in game 1, takes 17 shots (hits 8) and gets 19 pts.
Game 2 its 18 minutes game 3 its 15 game 4 & 5 its 10.
Someone tell Derek we don't have our first round pick, so stop trying to lose.
If Williams isn't playing the right way, then we need to play his way because it was fun and it produced.
Yeah I pretty much agree with this. Unless he comes out looking just flat out obviously awful, which he really hasn't yet, you have to give this guy a decent amount of minutes. Another case would be if the match up is obviously not favorable to him. If the plan was to force this guy to try and play in a way that he is incapable, they never should've gotten him. But, with all of that said, we're only 5 games deep. Let's see how the compromise progresses over the next 5. This better not be a case where Phil is putting pressure on Fisher because DWill isn't playing the triangle strictly and properly.
herkyJerky@ 11/5/2015 1:41 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:so people are calling for dummy-Dwil to play 24.725 minutes per game, why? Cause? Perhaps our coaching staff sees something that us genius's don't see?
The same coaching staff that trots out Calderon? Maybe they do see something different. Also, if Williams played that many minutes he make rival Mudiay for most turnovers
I am torn on calderon. He is a huge problem but not much can be done at the moment. Starting grant now would be a bad idea.
Start Gallo and have Grant come in moving Gallo to the two.
That's what I would do.
PresIke@ 11/5/2015 1:49 PM
Silence yourself, fish.
Some of our fans care so much that ridiculing players who just joined the team and demanding high level performances against some of the best teams in the NBA from a team that was pretty much unwatchable a season ago is their way of expressing it.
nychamp@ 11/5/2015 1:52 PM
Agree with the OP. Spot on, fishmike.
PresIke@ 11/5/2015 1:55 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:Sorry, but if you don't change things, alot of the media and fan doubt and pressure will start creeping into the lockerroom, if it hasn't already.
The Talking heads aren't always right, but in this case, just plain as day. 34 years old, can't sink J's, can't guard his man(any man), can't even entry pass correctly(see steal and 1 man fast break dunk by Lebron last night on lazy pass to Melo).
You gotta make changes. You have to make adjustments. It's called coaching.
Pressure? Well Fish is under pressure naturally as a coach, especially after last season, but the roster is what it is. We couldn't sign big free agents for a reason.
We all know Calderon is done, but he's been a veteran starter for years, and was brought in to be just that. Do I like that he is getting all the minutes? Not really, but Galloway was an undrafted player who has not even played a full season yet. The coach has to consider the locker room over fans whining first at this point.
It will not look good to the team to yank Calderon so quickly, or bench him late in games due to his experience level, especially since Afllalo has not even played with him yet.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Our backcourt is a question mark that I am not sure will be so great, and that's why I am also not going to go nuts over how we are doing, when this team is already miles better than last year to the plain eye and record-wise, and change is not going to happen overnight.
Expectations have to be realistic, and I'm sorry if this sounds judging, but I question if some of our fans I read comments from either get this, or have the temperament to get it.
Please prove me wrong.
BRIGGS@ 11/5/2015 2:02 PM
nychamp wrote:Agree with the OP. Spot on, fishmike.
I look at it this way.
Were 1-3 avg under 100 since game 1. I think D Williams was a major conduit in game 1 as was Lansgton Galloway and Oquinn. Those guys all need more minutes. We play faster were playing slow with Carmelo Sasha and Calderon.
I really really believe Melo should be down at 26 minutes right now for many reasons. I think he'll play better with less minutes.
Play the best player for the job, no favoritism bullshyt.
nychamp@ 11/5/2015 2:22 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
nychamp wrote:Agree with the OP. Spot on, fishmike.
I look at it this way.
Were 1-3 avg under 100 since game 1. I think D Williams was a major conduit in game 1 as was Lansgton Galloway and Oquinn. Those guys all need more minutes. We play faster were playing slow with Carmelo Sasha and Calderon.
I really really believe Melo should be down at 26 minutes right now for many reasons. I think he'll play better with less minutes.
I agree about moderating Melo's minutes.
I don't think it's that simple regarding simply giving those three other guys more minutes. KOQ is a good candidate for more consistent minutes but you have to be careful about matchups vs stretch 4s. Galloway excels driving and hitting shots off ball movement but he's not good setting up the offense and making entry passes, hence I don't love him at lead guard. Only spot duty there IMO. I do like him on the floor at the end of games, and his defense is huge. DWill is still too unbridled at times and like I posted in another thread needs to be a finisher or fast breaker. Without someone getting him the ball in the right spots, he can turn into JR smith. Also his on ball defense is weak and he is being exploited constantly in this area.
Overall, I don't disagree with your desire for these guys to see more minutes, but I don't think it's a clear cut move that needs to happen right now. They need to show they understand how to play in all facets. You can't just plug dudes in and expect certain numbers, rotisserie style. The team is just sorting things out now and I prefer to ride it out for a while before making sweeping changes.
ChuckBuck@ 11/5/2015 2:29 PM
nychamp wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nychamp wrote:Agree with the OP. Spot on, fishmike.
I look at it this way.
Were 1-3 avg under 100 since game 1. I think D Williams was a major conduit in game 1 as was Lansgton Galloway and Oquinn. Those guys all need more minutes. We play faster were playing slow with Carmelo Sasha and Calderon.
I really really believe Melo should be down at 26 minutes right now for many reasons. I think he'll play better with less minutes.
Galloway excels driving and hitting shots off ball movement but he's not good setting up the offense and making entry passes, hence I don't love him at lead guard.
Have you seen Jose set up the Knicks with precision entry passes? They're so dam good they actually award the other team points!
clyderules@ 11/5/2015 2:58 PM
No fast break points in a 48 minute game? That's not good!
Nalod@ 11/5/2015 4:04 PM
2-3 start, Hyper critical forgets we only won 17 last season, with 9 new faces, Melo who missed 40 games and does not recognize Jose plays less than Grant and Gallo:
2-3 start, understand complexity of team chemistry takes time to gel with coaching staff with more rings than fingers and super excited about TWO rookies:
Play the best player for the job, no favoritism bullshyt.
Easy to say when you're not the one in the locker room coaching multi-millionaires, their egos and have to keep the team together and behind you.
Fisher does not have the juice at this point in his career to do that, and you have to even then think -- if he said, eff it I'm benching Jose next game -- about the possible impact that would have on the team. "Could I be benched next after a few bad games?" "Not sure if I can trust this guy." etc. etc.
It's also a bit of an insult to Jackson who traded for him to bench Jose after 5 games without Afflalo who you signed to play with him, most likely.
No one is going to deny Jose is playing horribly, nor am I of the belief that he will get better, but it's not that simple, nor is it necessarily about "favoritism."
It's called being a manager in most jobs or a coach in others.
