Knicks · ESPN Loving KP Too (page 3)

The constant fluidity on the draft boards is just an example of how little we really know...and what we believe now might change over the next few years.

Each year after every draft there is going to be a reevaluation of the actual order...and what it should have been.

You see some talented players in this recent draft, but none of us really know where they are going to end up as players- they grow up and develop physically...some also add to their games if they work at it- who the heck knows what will happen down the road.

I see Towns and KP as the best players coming out of the draft at this point based on what I've seen. Does not mean that other players won't be good or great, or maybe even surpass them, but these two have the physical attributes, the basketball talent and skills, and the BB IQ to really grow. KP might have more growth potential because he is so immature physically, but these two seem like true franchise players, IMO, because they have the right combination of the things you need to be great.

Just happy to see that KP is well ahead of where I expected him to be at this point, and that all the crap about needing 3-5 years to compete with the "men" was simply BS. Hard for the so called experts to find ways of measuring a player's heart, desire, and determination, and I expect many of them do little or no original research on overseas players. Wonder if this is a lesson which will carry over to the next draft?

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

WaltLongmire wrote:The constant fluidity on the draft boards is just an example of how little we really know...and what we believe now might change over the next few years.

Each year after every draft there is going to be a reevaluation of the actual order...and what it should have been.

You see some talented players in this recent draft, but none of us really know where they are going to end up as players- they grow up and develop physically...some also add to their games if they work at it- who the heck knows what will happen down the road.

I see Towns and KP as the best players coming out of the draft at this point based on what I've seen. Does not mean that other players won't be good or great, or maybe even surpass them, but these two have the physical attributes, the basketball talent and skills, and the BB IQ to really grow. KP might have more growth potential because he is so immature physically, but these two seem like true franchise players, IMO, because they have the right combination of the things you need to be great.

Just happy to see that KP is well ahead of where I expected him to be at this point, and that all the crap about needing 3-5 years to compete with the "men" was simply BS. Hard for the so called experts to find ways of measuring a player's heart, desire, and determination, and I expect many of them do little or no original research on overseas players. Wonder if this is a lesson which will carry over to the next draft?

Doubt it LOL. Some guys take longer to develop than expected, some guys shorter. These so called experts can't really predict that until they see what team they end up going to and exactly what role they're going to play in the roster. And who knows? Maybe on another team KP wouldn't be playing like this so soon. Maybe, on another team, thrust in the starting line-up as the Center he'd actually be struggling a lot. Guys that are projected very high turn out to be busts sometimes. There's no real way to determine how accurate these draft projections are, or the predictions of how they're going to develop, until after the fact. I'm more concerned about how seriously the fans continue to take these things, regardless of how often these kinds of predictions turn out to be not so accurate. I'm more concerned if whether or not goofballs like Michael Rappaport or Stephen A Smith are going to learn from this. Probably not. Know why? Because they love to throw NY sports fans into a panic. Know why? Because that generates more phone calls than satisfaction does.

NYKBocker wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

Hahahaaaa yeah that would be nice. He'll just try to talk his way out of it, you know, something along the lines of: 'If you'd been paying attention, what I ACTUALLY said was... blah blah blah'.

NYKBocker wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

He will… sort of.

Soon, most likely after Porzingis first 'breakout' game or his next Sportscenter worthy highlight, Smith will do a 6 minute segment about how he was wrong. The topic will seemingly be Porzingis, but it'll REALLY be about Smith patting himself on the back for being man enough to admit he was wrong.

bigbasketballs wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

He will… sort of.

Soon, most likely after Porzingis first 'breakout' game or his next Sportscenter worthy highlight, Smith will do a 6 minute segment about how he was wrong. The topic will seemingly be Porzingis, but it'll REALLY be about Smith patting himself on the back for being man enough to admit he was wrong.

Yeah, that sounds just as likely as what I predict. Probably more-so.

bigbasketballs wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

He will… sort of.

Soon, most likely after Porzingis first 'breakout' game or his next Sportscenter worthy highlight, Smith will do a 6 minute segment about how he was wrong. The topic will seemingly be Porzingis, but it'll REALLY be about Smith patting himself on the back for being man enough to admit he was wrong.

Yup...no doubt about it.

NYKBocker wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

The real basketball analysts and talent evaluators never do the type of shtick you see from a guy like Smith- they almost always hedge and qualify their statements about players because they know that this stuff is not pure science.

When I hear or read this type of overblown hyped up hyperbole laced stuff I just turn off, because I know they don't really know what they are talking about. I might be entertained...but I take what they say with a teaspoon of salt.

Same goes for folks around here. Great to speculate and wonder how good this or that potential draft pick is, or what he might become...I do enough of it myself...but its almost impossible to be 100% right when evaluating players prior to putting on an NBA uniform, and any study of the NBA draft will prove this.

WaltLongmire wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

The real basketball analysts and talent evaluators never do the type of shtick you see from a guy like Smith- they almost always hedge and qualify their statements about players because they know that this stuff is not pure science.

When I hear or read this type of overblown hyped up hyperbole laced stuff I just turn off, because I know they don't really know what they are talking about. I might be entertained...but I take what they say with a teaspoon of salt.

Same goes for folks around here. Great to speculate and wonder how good this or that potential draft pick is, or what he might become...I do enough of it myself...but its almost impossible to be 100% right when evaluating players prior to putting on an NBA uniform, and any study of the NBA draft will prove this.

yet some feel that even if they are not 100% right they really are and that their player just did not get the proper opportunity or it was all do to injury.

I go back to draft boards on this site and look how absolutely certain some posters were. Comical.

i heard the "eye-opening athleticism" statement and subsequently took a good look at the two or three videos of him. one was a workout video which i found compelling, what with the effortless dunks with all that extra length above the rim-- he was hardly trying. and then the sweet stroke.

then the other video showed him mixing it up in games in spain as well as always being in the right place on the floor, which requires an innate feel for the game as well as good coaching.

on those two things alone i was just fine with knicks taking him as the 4th pick, since it seemed like a move for the future, which i was in favor of. he looked a little lost during summer league; i did not like the way he fumbled passes as it seemed like he had bad hands. he might still. i also did not see the rebounder he turned out to be. that's changed!

ultimately, however, what i did not foresee is the visual and palpable floor impact that he would have at the professional level: he has the "IT" factor, and he is the ballast of the team, it's most important player. amazing.

this extra dimension is what put him as the second pick. knicks are blessed. fukk stephen a smith

In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

Yes this is along the lines i was thinking. I also consider a franchise player a guy who should crack the top 10 players in the league. Russell, Okafor, and Mudiay may lack on the defensive side of the ball to be that franchise changing talent, but they should be close, especially Mudiay.

Let's not forget Jay Williams either, and his KP thoughts on draft day.

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

WaltLongmire wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

He will… sort of.

Soon, most likely after Porzingis first 'breakout' game or his next Sportscenter worthy highlight, Smith will do a 6 minute segment about how he was wrong. The topic will seemingly be Porzingis, but it'll REALLY be about Smith patting himself on the back for being man enough to admit he was wrong.

Yup...no doubt about it.

Did you see on First Take? He more-less already addressed this. He didn't directly address him being "wrong", he backtracked and said he always felt Porzingis was a great prospect, but he was disappointed with Phil Jackson because he is supposed to build a team that can win now and he is building a team around a rookie who was advertised as someone who won't be ready for a few years. So i highly doubt he admits he is wrong, unless the Knicks go deep into the playoffs with Porzingis being a major reason for that. To him, he is right because Aldridge didn't come here and Porzingis, no matter how impressive he is, can't help you win a championship this season.

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

No bait at all..I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent..He can be very a disruptive player on the offensive glass and a deterrent to driving guards in the lane but that's franchise??