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mreinman @ 11/17/2015 7:18 PM

This was a good read (read the comments too).

http://articles.philly.com/2015-10-29/sp...

CrushAlot @ 11/17/2015 7:26 PM

mreinman wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I think Okafor and Nerlens Noel is the beginning of an interesting foundation.
If they strike gold in the lotto this year, they could have three very good young players. Or possibly four if they get that Lakers pick, too.
That said, I think his overall strategy has included a lot of dumb moves. And I think intentionally spending top three picks on injured guys is a foolhardy move.
I think you have to give him through the draft this year and see what their team looks like.
Don't forget Saric.

This guy speculates that Saric might not come over until 2017 when the money is better.
http://www.phillyvoice.com/ten-reasons-d...

Knixkik @ 11/17/2015 8:47 PM

mreinman wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I think Okafor and Nerlens Noel is the beginning of an interesting foundation.
If they strike gold in the lotto this year, they could have three very good young players. Or possibly four if they get that Lakers pick, too.
That said, I think his overall strategy has included a lot of dumb moves. And I think intentionally spending top three picks on injured guys is a foolhardy move.
I think you have to give him through the draft this year and see what their team looks like.
Don't forget Saric.

He's never played a game. Can't say that yet. We have no idea how good he is.

y2zipper @ 11/17/2015 11:34 PM

bigbasketballs wrote:
mreinman wrote:If he does go, then the next GM will be more main stream and he will be handed a sh1t load of flexibility.
As opposed to a roster capable of winning NBA basketball games.
Which again speaks to the new NBA question - is the purpose of your roster to win games, or is the purpose of your roster to be able to be turned over?

The answer to this is that it has to be one or the other. You should either be trying to win a title or keeping yourself within the access point of franchise players (which is say, the top 5 of the draft), as Hinkie is doing right now. I don't like every move he made. I do like the MCW move because it is the perfect example of selling high on a player without much of a ceiling. I like Okafor/Saric/Noel as somebody mentioned earlier, and Embiid was a bad idea to begin with given his injury history. If Okafor is as good as people think and he hits again this offseason, he could be off to a good start with this team. Hinkie may not be around long enough to see it through, but I'd say he's guessed right more than he's guessed wrong so far.

It's hard to compare this to Boston because they basically got a sucker to trade its future for their declining assets in a foolish attempt to make a splash, and even then Boston played it's way out of making them any good. They tried to trade four picks to move up last draft and nobody was biting.

mreinman @ 11/18/2015 1:24 AM

y2zipper wrote:
bigbasketballs wrote:
mreinman wrote:If he does go, then the next GM will be more main stream and he will be handed a sh1t load of flexibility.
As opposed to a roster capable of winning NBA basketball games.
Which again speaks to the new NBA question - is the purpose of your roster to win games, or is the purpose of your roster to be able to be turned over?
The answer to this is that it has to be one or the other. You should either be trying to win a title or keeping yourself within the access point of franchise players (which is say, the top 5 of the draft), as Hinkie is doing right now. I don't like every move he made. I do like the MCW move because it is the perfect example of selling high on a player without much of a ceiling. I like Okafor/Saric/Noel as somebody mentioned earlier, and Embiid was a bad idea to begin with given his injury history. If Okafor is as good as people think and he hits again this offseason, he could be off to a good start with this team. Hinkie may not be around long enough to see it through, but I'd say he's guessed right more than he's guessed wrong so far.
It's hard to compare this to Boston because they basically got a sucker to trade its future for their declining assets in a foolish attempt to make a splash, and even then Boston played it's way out of making them any good. They tried to trade four picks to move up last draft and nobody was biting.

very good post. Open minded.

mreinman @ 11/18/2015 1:53 AM

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am...

Bonn1997 @ 11/18/2015 5:51 AM

fishmike wrote:bad plan, bad execution.
team sports isnt a science experiment or an algo
Ignore the human element and you will fail entirely. Oh.. and dont tell me it *would* have worked if the guys they drafted didnt leave the team. Building a team worth sticking around for is part of the job.

You definitely can't ignore things the stats don't pick up on. But the use of metrics doesn't live or die with any one person, just like the eye ball test doesn't either. The Warriors just won a championship and they have a sophisticated metrics department run by Gelfand (https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuel-gelfa...)

Jmpasq @ 11/18/2015 6:14 AM

The plan wasn't that bad I have a problem with this guy acting like he is smarter than everyone else. His plan isn't exactly revolutionary. Anybody could suck on purpose and trade every good player they have for more draft picks. The Sixers remind me of a lot of those late 90's early 2000 Clippers teams. They had a lot of high picks but drafted terribly and couldn't develop players. How many years do you allow this to go on. Eventually they will be good but it might be a Mets situation where you are god awful for 8 years before it happens. They finally have got a piece to build around in Okafor. However I would not be surprised if he bolts from there the first chance he gets. As a player I would hate playing there. I would not want to be a part of a strategy where losing on purpose is the goal

Jmpasq @ 11/18/2015 7:17 AM

mreinman wrote:This was a good read (read the comments too).
http://articles.philly.com/2015-10-29/sp...

This is exactly why I can't stand the guy
"I see a lot of it. And I expected this," Hinkie said Tuesday. "If you're going to be innovative, you have to be willing to be misunderstood."

Its innovative to lose on purpose to get draft picks? Teams have tanked before but this attitude like he is the messiah of basketball because he trades All Stars for injured draft picks just pisses me off.

mreinman @ 11/18/2015 8:59 AM

Jmpasq wrote:
mreinman wrote:This was a good read (read the comments too).
http://articles.philly.com/2015-10-29/sp...
This is exactly why I can't stand the guy
"I see a lot of it. And I expected this," Hinkie said Tuesday. "If you're going to be innovative, you have to be willing to be misunderstood."
Its innovative to lose on purpose to get draft picks? Teams have tanked before but this attitude like he is the messiah of basketball because he trades All Stars for injured draft picks just pisses me off.

he is doing more than lose on purpose. His transactions have been quite advanced.

fishmike @ 11/18/2015 9:01 AM

mreinman wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
mreinman wrote:This was a good read (read the comments too).
http://articles.philly.com/2015-10-29/sp...
This is exactly why I can't stand the guy
"I see a lot of it. And I expected this," Hinkie said Tuesday. "If you're going to be innovative, you have to be willing to be misunderstood."
Its innovative to lose on purpose to get draft picks? Teams have tanked before but this attitude like he is the messiah of basketball because he trades All Stars for injured draft picks just pisses me off.
he is doing more than lose on purpose. His transactions have been quite advanced.

not really no.. and cant be quanitified. Terrible team with no structure and no development. What has he produced in 3 years? Look at what Phil has produced in 2. Sorry Hinkie... your not misunderstood, just a bad GM

bigbasketballs @ 11/18/2015 10:14 AM

mreinman wrote:http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am...

The premise of this article is the regurgitation of the obvious.

YES, if they're the NBA's worst team this year they have a good chance at a top 3 pick. Thanks for the knowledge Basketball Insider.

Yes, if the Lakers pick happens to fall out of the top 4, they'll get that too. I wasn't aware of that fact before today.

But again, here is the issue you need to consider, IF it's also fair to project ahead and assume they'll eventually have a talented, enviable roster.

They write: "Imagine that squad: Jahlil Okafor, Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid, Dario Saric, Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray (or Kris Dunn),"

Okay then, now imagine Noel becoming a free agent, then Emiid and Okafor the year after that. Then Saric, Simmons and Murray the year after that (not to mention every and any other player they draft lil McConnell, Covington, etc).

Who sees that team staying together long-term?

The shell game aspect of "the process" is also evident in this perfectly obvious, fluff piece - Hinkie can't lose in the eyes of its believers.

Team finally starts to look like a NBA squad? 'See, it worked.'

Team continues to lose? 'Man, they're just getting even more assets.'

Now THAT might be Hinkie's smartest trick.

Swishfm3 @ 11/18/2015 10:24 AM

fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
mreinman wrote:This was a good read (read the comments too).
http://articles.philly.com/2015-10-29/sp...
he is doing more than lose on purpose. His transactions have been quite advanced.
not really no.. and cant be quanitified. Terrible team with no structure and no development. What has he produced in 3 years? Look at what Phil has produced in 2. Sorry Hinkie... your not misunderstood, just a bad GM

bigbasketballs wrote:The shell game aspect of "the process" is also evident in this perfectly obvious, fluff piece - Hinkie can't lose in the eyes of its believers.
Team finally starts to look like a NBA squad? 'See, it worked.'
Team continues to lose? 'Man, they're just getting even more assets.'
Now THAT might be Hinkie's smartest trick.

Quotes from Fish and BBB sums it up

jrodmc @ 11/18/2015 10:28 AM

WTF is this doing in the Knicks Forum?

fishmike @ 11/18/2015 11:35 AM

jrodmc wrote:WTF is this doing in the Knicks Forum?

need a good place to poop? Try this thread.

WaltLongmire @ 11/18/2015 12:33 PM

fishmike wrote:
jrodmc wrote:WTF is this doing in the Knicks Forum?
need a good place to poop? Try this thread.

Some truth to what you guys are saying...but to me the post goes to how you build a franchise, something that has been an problem for the Knicks in recent years.

I'm a believer in using the draft...assuming you choose wisely, or course, but Hinkie is doing his best to show how you can screw up a slow rebuild.

You can see his draft history here:http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...

Has a bunch of picks in 2016, not sure I would want Hinkie making the picks if I own the Sixers, but if he does not have the framework from a good team next year, and they finish in the lottery again, he should be canned.

ChuckBuck @ 11/18/2015 12:45 PM

Good thing Sam Hinkie is a disciple of the much lauded and fabled Daryl Morey of bball Moneyball fame.

Those analytics have Houston....wait. What's that? Houston just fired their head coach?!!?

Yea, sorry Hinkie....recipe for failure.