Knicks · I think Porzingis wins ROY (page 2)

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Towns already has. Could be early rookie wall, could be Minny struggling to find identity.

But KP will hit some kind of wall eventually.

Its inevitable.

Didnt know that, how steep has his dropoff been, anyone have the numbers?

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Towns already has. Could be early rookie wall, could be Minny struggling to find identity.

But KP will hit some kind of wall eventually.

Its inevitable.

Didnt know that, how steep has his dropoff been, anyone have the numbers?

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/12/02/2015-16-rookie-ladder-week-6/index.html

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Towns already has. Could be early rookie wall, could be Minny struggling to find identity.

But KP will hit some kind of wall eventually.

Its inevitable.

Didnt know that, how steep has his dropoff been, anyone have the numbers?

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/12/02/2015-16-rookie-ladder-week-6/index.html

The article called it more of a "mini slump", not enough to move him out of the top spot, but its still a noticeable dropoff.

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Towns already has. Could be early rookie wall, could be Minny struggling to find identity.

But KP will hit some kind of wall eventually.

Its inevitable.

Didnt know that, how steep has his dropoff been, anyone have the numbers?

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/12/02/2015-16-rookie-ladder-week-6/index.html

The article called it more of a "mini slump", not enough to move him out of the top spot, but its still a noticeable dropoff.

He's at 8ppg and 6rpg over his last five games. I posted the numbers up thread.

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Towns already has. Could be early rookie wall, could be Minny struggling to find identity.

But KP will hit some kind of wall eventually.

Its inevitable.

Didnt know that, how steep has his dropoff been, anyone have the numbers?

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/12/02/2015-16-rookie-ladder-week-6/index.html

The article called it more of a "mini slump", not enough to move him out of the top spot, but its still a noticeable dropoff.

6 games when he's played 18 isn't mini.

He's dropped off. He'll likely bounce back, I didn't suggest it was permanent, but it is a drop=off.

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Towns already has. Could be early rookie wall, could be Minny struggling to find identity.

But KP will hit some kind of wall eventually.

Its inevitable.

Didnt know that, how steep has his dropoff been, anyone have the numbers?

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/12/02/2015-16-rookie-ladder-week-6/index.html

The article called it more of a "mini slump", not enough to move him out of the top spot, but its still a noticeable dropoff.

He's at 8ppg and 6rpg over his last five games. I posted the numbers up thread.

Didnt see that, thanks. Going to have to watch Minny, want to see how much Towns is playing in the post.

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Towns already has. Could be early rookie wall, could be Minny struggling to find identity.

But KP will hit some kind of wall eventually.

Its inevitable.

Didnt know that, how steep has his dropoff been, anyone have the numbers?

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/12/02/2015-16-rookie-ladder-week-6/index.html

The article called it more of a "mini slump", not enough to move him out of the top spot, but its still a noticeable dropoff.

6 games when he's played 18 isn't mini.

He's dropped off. He'll likely bounce back, I didn't suggest it was permanent, but it is a drop=off.

I believe the author was referring to the number of games played as "mini", not the minutes. If it goes on much longer I dont believe there will be much doubt that Towns has hit the wall.

Has a chance for ROY, but so do others. Just too early at this point, but the ROY in-season race, and the odds for each player, has surely changed since the pre-season and early regular season- almost enough to make some experts look like fools.

A long season though.

Would be great if Grant could make a run for it, too.

Once again, and I'm almost embarrassed to repeat it, because I continually say this- what is going on with KP shows how little many "expert" analysts really know about the players in the draft. This also includes many/most of us, and the guys who are being paid big bucks to make the picks for NBA teams.

Very easy to measure verticals, wing-span, etc.-much more difficult to measure intelligence, heart, toughness, and an individual's ability to grow, evolve and adapt.

Looking at how a players was raised also comes to light with OK4's plight.

The two players I came to like the most in this draft- Towns and KP, also have the best family stories, IMO. We know about KP, but Towns is a pretty well rounded guy- I actually remember some Laker's sight making fun of him not being a guy who had other interests besides BB, while for OK4 (they thought LA would take him at the time)lived for BB.

Funny thing is KP also lives for the game, but seems to have had a family that keeps him grounded, and played in a professional league that did not pander to him like the "amateur" system in the U.S..

Told this story before- read that he had a chance when he came to Spain to have his own living quarters- separated from the team he was playing with- but he chose to stay with the team. Think a lot of U.S. players would do this?

You look at the 3 guys we took in the draft, and all of them game from pro-ball families. There was a point before the draft where Phil talked about drafting "mature" players, and I think many thought he was talking about physically mature (Briggs probably had a near heart attack thinking about Phil taking WCS), but he was talking about a different kind of maturity, the type that is hard to measure, sometimes, unless you see how a person deals with the kind of pressure that has seemingly humbled OK4.

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Towns already has. Could be early rookie wall, could be Minny struggling to find identity.

But KP will hit some kind of wall eventually.

Its inevitable.

Didnt know that, how steep has his dropoff been, anyone have the numbers?

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/12/02/2015-16-rookie-ladder-week-6/index.html

From the article...and why I like Towns so much:

"I felt that I haven't done enough yet," Towns said when asked about the consensus among NBA front offices that he would end up as the Draft's best player but wouldn't have this much of an impact this soon.

"I still have a lot to grow. I expect myself to do more. People feel that I have overachieved, but I feel that myself that I work tremendously hard in the gym. I feel almost I have underachieved a little bit."

Guy has shown he has the right perspective, so far, and you see him smiling on the bench when his team is doing well even if he is having a sub-par game.

He and KP are standing out so far, on the court and off the court.

He has dropped off, though...not sure why.

I'd rather have Porzingis at this point, and feel KP's future is brighter, but we would have been gushing over Towns the same way, and although his is more advanced physically than KP, he is still a kid, too.

Great future poster boys for the NBA.

ROY is a great discussion to have. But what about MVP? The stats below speaks volumes towards his impact.

"With Porzingis on the court, New York is outscoring opponents by 2.9 points per 100 possessions, per NBA.com. When he’s off the court, the Knicks are being outscored by 9.4 points per 100 possessions."

Keep in mind, when KP comes off the bench, he usually plays more center than PF.....So he's clearly the only rim protector. If we had a solid Oakley or Sheed type at PF, KP would be the ideal center (right now).

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Euroleague has crazy format but dont think they play nearly as many games as NBA and KP played limited mins there. I think Fischer should be conscious of giving him a rest whenever it can be afforded

WaltLongmire wrote:Once again, and I'm almost embarrassed to repeat it, because I continually say this- what is going on with KP shows how little many "expert" analysts really know about the players in the draft. This also includes many/most of us, and the guys who are being paid big bucks to make the picks for NBA teams.

I disagree with this somewhat.

KP has been projected as a top 5 pick long before he got on Knicks fans radars (we were looking higher). He was a potential lottery pick the year before.

The hardcore draft guys were pretty much in the ballpark the whole time.

A bunch of narrative crap then took over when mainstream attention turned to the top 4.

Understand I'm not suggesting I predicted this, but i did say KP was no more or less NBA ready than any other of the top freshmen.

Buying into the "two years away narrative" was a failure to whoever bought into it.

And he isn't being physically overwhelmed and hasn't missed a min due to injury. That too is just thumbnail thinking.

Following professional sports should teach you to - if nothing else - have an open mind. The most predictable thing about them is how hard they are to predict.

meloanyk wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Euroleague has crazy format but dont think they play nearly as many games as NBA and KP played limited mins there. I think Fischer should be conscious of giving him a rest whenever it can be afforded

That's a good point. Porzingis does many things well, Im hoping that when one part of his game starts failing him (maybe due to the grind) that he will find other ways to have an impact. But for the reasons you stated, it wouldn't surprise me if KP hits the wall at some point.

GustavBahler wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Euroleague has crazy format but dont think they play nearly as many games as NBA and KP played limited mins there. I think Fischer should be conscious of giving him a rest whenever it can be afforded

That's a good point. Porzingis does many things well, Im hoping that when one part of his game starts failing him (maybe due to the grind) that he will find other ways to have an impact. But for the reasons you stated, it wouldn't surprise me if KP hits the wall at some point.

Would shock me if he didn't.

blkexec wrote:ROY is a great discussion to have. But what about MVP? The stats below speaks volumes towards his impact.

"With Porzingis on the court, New York is outscoring opponents by 2.9 points per 100 possessions, per NBA.com. When he’s off the court, the Knicks are being outscored by 9.4 points per 100 possessions."

Keep in mind, when KP comes off the bench, he usually plays more center than PF.....So he's clearly the only rim protector. If we had a solid Oakley or Sheed type at PF, KP would be the ideal center (right now).

I heard a good comparison for him... Sheed. A big who can protect the rim, defend the post, defend smalls on the perimeter, score inside and score outside. So rare! KP is that kind of player, only bigger, longer and without Sheed's lovable personality.

He's a bonafide difference makers and build around guy.

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont see Porzingis hitting a rookie wall because of his experience playing pro ball in Spain. Hard to say if Towns will drop off. Towns doesn't just rely on his outside shot, he has the makings of a great post player. He has other options if his shot isnt falling. Could be close.

Euroleague has crazy format but dont think they play nearly as many games as NBA and KP played limited mins there. I think Fischer should be conscious of giving him a rest whenever it can be afforded

That's a good point. Porzingis does many things well, Im hoping that when one part of his game starts failing him (maybe due to the grind) that he will find other ways to have an impact. But for the reasons you stated, it wouldn't surprise me if KP hits the wall at some point.

Would shock me if he didn't.

Chris Bosh hits it every year. Literally.

and your Eastern Conf Rookie of the Month for Oct/Nov is..............YUP!!!!!!

Rookie wrote:and your Eastern Conf Rookie of the Month for Oct/Nov is..............YUP!!!!!!

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/12/03/porzi...

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:and your Eastern Conf Rookie of the Month for Oct/Nov is..............YUP!!!!!!

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/12/03/porzi...

1 Month down, Kristap on his way. Gonna have this thing sown up by March.

East. Towns got award in the west.

18 games and he is in the MVP conversation. Im thinking by March we should have Nobel Peace prize and maybe for medicine. Why? Cuz he makes us feel so good!!!!
Im thinking he should get an Oscar as well.
As for "man of the year" im thinking there is not enough time for 2015, but he should have it sewn up for next year!!!

"PorzinGod".........................

WTF, might as well put a statue up now. more time to enjoy it!!!!

Love the kid, love the hype!

Towns uses way more energy in order to post the numbers he does. KP is much more conservative with how he plays. He's under control and he doesn't waste energy. If you watch him he has learned how to block shots and rebound without jumping. He saves his energy a lot more than people realize by simply using his length. KP also seems to be less inclined to dabble in the night life, which I'm sure a lot of young guys partake of.