Knicks · Prozingas' best comparision is.... (page 2)

Ira @ 12/5/2015 11:57 AM
meloanyk wrote:Not sure KP is 7'3" but a legit 7' 1" which ledas me to pose this comparision:

A 7' !" Kirilenko ?? AK47 was a hell of a playa when in prime and healthy



Chad FordVerified account
‏@chadfordinsider
Just got the measurements for @kporzee from @impactbball! 7'1.25" w/out shoes, 7'6 wingspan, 230 lbs. Longest wingspan in the draft.

7'1.25" w/out shoes translates to 7'3" with shoes.

fitzfarm @ 12/5/2015 11:59 AM
Last night on ESPN sports center KP is the first rookie to average 14-9-2 while hitting over 2 threes a game in the history of the NBA... What KP is doing has never been seen before and right now he can't be compared he is in a league of his own
meloanyk @ 12/5/2015 12:17 PM
Ira wrote:
meloanyk wrote:Not sure KP is 7'3" but a legit 7' 1" which ledas me to pose this comparision:

A 7' !" Kirilenko ?? AK47 was a hell of a playa when in prime and healthy



Chad FordVerified account
‏@chadfordinsider
Just got the measurements for @kporzee from @impactbball! 7'1.25" w/out shoes, 7'6 wingspan, 230 lbs. Longest wingspan in the draft.

7'1.25" w/out shoes translates to 7'3" with shoes.

Thanks, great info. Predraft had him anywhere from 7 to 7 1 then came the seven three. Like that he is legit 7'1.25' in socks and love the wingspan, usual wingspan of general population tends to be equal to height though not unusual for NBA players to have longer than height. Generally hs kids add 1.25 inches with sneaks/cleats.

Nalod @ 12/5/2015 12:27 PM
KP is everything Barganani was hoped to be when he was drafted no. 1.
meloanyk @ 12/5/2015 2:31 PM
I still suspect that Okafor or Russell would have been chosen because of Bargani despite any denials. Still give credit to Jackson and braintrust for selecting him before Mudiay or "safe" pick like Winslow or even Kaminsky. I didnt want Okafor but will admit that I wanted Mudiay who had drawn comparisions to Wall and Westbrook. Think that kid will be real good in time but Towns and KP are the cream
bigbasketballs @ 12/5/2015 2:34 PM
meloanyk wrote:I still suspect that Okafor or Russell would have been chosen because of Bargani despite any denials. Still give credit to Jackson and braintrust for selecting him before Mudiay or "safe" pick like Winslow or even Kaminsky. I didnt want Okafor but will admit that I wanted Mudiay who had drawn comparisions to Wall and Westbrook. Think that kid will be real good in time but Towns and KP are the cream

Porzingis was a consensus higher pick than Mudiay, Kaminsky, WCS, Winslow, etc since the very first mocks. People need to stop giving the Knicks credit for their bravery. He was a perfectly logical pick at #4. He wasn't a "risk"… that's a false narrative people bought into when the Knicks fell to 4.

dk7th @ 12/5/2015 3:12 PM
bigbasketballs wrote:
meloanyk wrote:I still suspect that Okafor or Russell would have been chosen because of Bargani despite any denials. Still give credit to Jackson and braintrust for selecting him before Mudiay or "safe" pick like Winslow or even Kaminsky. I didnt want Okafor but will admit that I wanted Mudiay who had drawn comparisions to Wall and Westbrook. Think that kid will be real good in time but Towns and KP are the cream

Porzingis was a consensus higher pick than Mudiay, Kaminsky, WCS, Winslow, etc since the very first mocks. People need to stop giving the Knicks credit for their bravery. He was a perfectly logical pick at #4. He wasn't a "risk"… that's a false narrative people bought into when the Knicks fell to 4.

that's right. although the outrage in the pick was due in part to it signaling that the franchise was preparing for life after melo instead of the alleged or coveted "immediate help" that a pick of winslow would have brought.

that said, i liked the pick from what i saw in his workout footage and the highlight reels of him in spain. i think the eye-opening athleticism was plain from that alone and i was willing to give jackson the benefit of the doubt as a result of that.

what you could not have foreseen is his poise, humor, self-possession, likability, and i will add that he going to be a leader/captain one day.

kind of a jeter-esque scenario.

joec32033 @ 12/5/2015 3:55 PM
umynot wrote:Hey guys been forever since i posted but had to say that KP6 has reignited my love for our Knicks for first time since we traded Gallinari I have heard so many comparisions for or boy KP6 but not the one comparision that i believe fits most.

We heard Dirk Gasol Garnet AD and many others since KP was drafted but way i see it is
Dirk never blocked 7 in a game as rookie
Gasol isnt a 3 point shooter
Garnet is good comparision but still not a 3 point shooter
Not Dirk Not Gasol Not AD nor anyone is was a close to this package at this age
other then Arvydas Sabonis

KP6 and Sabonis were both well over 7 feet
Both could shoot 3s
Both could post
Both blocked shots
Both could handle rock well for size
Both could rebound
Both made their team better Ultimate team players
Both have heart
and both are from former USSR

Sabonis was a rookie in NBA at 31 and had already filled out but at 20 years old he was still pretty skinny

Wish i knew how to post videos i would post Sabonis pre nba videos Cant help but see a lot of our boy
in his game...

Which is an amazing thing for us Arvydas was way ahead of his time and a Hall of Famer

I said that a few months ago and I believe it more now. The only way you can get a better comparison is of you breakdown his skills. Offensively he is similiar to Dirk while defensively he is similiar to KG/AD.

Sambakick @ 12/5/2015 4:43 PM
Yao Ming + Dirk Nowitzki had a baby. And then fed that baby to Kristaps Porzingis.
mreinman @ 12/5/2015 6:49 PM
Nalod wrote:

that put back at 1:25 was epic

he really had zero arc on his shot

don't really see the comp but sabonis was a heck of a player and also a big nba cry baby

I still think that AD is the best comp.

93BUICK @ 12/5/2015 6:56 PM
A larger Rick Barry
(minus the granny shot- )
NumberTwoPencil @ 12/6/2015 1:31 AM
"Yao Ming + Dirk Nowitzki had a baby" !!
teamsport72 @ 12/6/2015 2:22 PM
Theres no such thing as Porzingas, you stupid baby.
GustavBahler @ 12/6/2015 5:08 PM
George Mikan on crack.
crzymdups @ 12/7/2015 10:23 AM
KP Abdul Jabaar

Nalod @ 12/7/2015 10:40 AM
Kareem vs. Lin

babyKnicks @ 12/7/2015 10:44 AM
Dirk + KG
Knixkik @ 12/7/2015 11:10 AM
Nalod wrote:KP is everything Barganani was hoped to be when he was drafted no. 1.

I don't think Bargnani was even hoped to be this good. He was drafted one of those years where there wasn't a clear-cut top prospect or franchise player and he seemed to offer the most upside. No one thought he was going to be a superstar though, just a really good scorer and a poor-man's Dirk.

Nalod @ 12/7/2015 12:38 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:KP is everything Barganani was hoped to be when he was drafted no. 1.

I don't think Bargnani was even hoped to be this good. He was drafted one of those years where there wasn't a clear-cut top prospect or franchise player and he seemed to offer the most upside. No one thought he was going to be a superstar though, just a really good scorer and a poor-man's Dirk.

He was taken overall no. 1. That shyt comes with expectations. Pau expectaions.

DrAlphaeus @ 12/7/2015 12:49 PM
Knixkik @ 12/7/2015 1:28 PM
From today's ESPN:

Kristaps Porzingis is not the next Dirk Nowitzki. So who is he?

Surprising production for two rookies

Chad Ford: At the start of the season, we took an in-depth look at Karl-Anthony Towns and felt he'd be a lock for Rookie of the Year. The next week, we tackled Kristaps Porzingis and wondered whether he'd give Towns a run at the award.


Stein: Porzingis' path to Dirk status daunting
The next Dirk? Recent history is a reminder that Knicks rookie Kristaps Porzingis has his work cut out for him.

Can Warriors win 73, beat Jordan's Bulls?
What are the odds that Golden State will beat the Bulls for best W-L record ever? Can they go undefeated before Christmas? Their amazing numbers tell the story.

Haberstroh: What Kobe can still teach LeBron
If LeBron wants to win rings in Cleveland, he should pay attention to Kobe Bryant's career.
Several weeks later, not only is Porzingis strongly in the mix for ROY -- I think he's actually jumped ahead of Towns, both statistically and in the hearts and minds of voters. He's already being hailed as a savior for a moribund Knicks franchise by the likes of ESPN's Zach Lowe. And real plus-minus rates him 43rd in the league this season, ahead of players like Damian Lillard and Dwight Howard.

While I think both of us saw his potential to be special before the draft, neither of us expected him to be doing this much this quickly. Set aside the NYC hype for a second, Kevin, and just how good has Porzingis really been?

Kevin Pelton: It's eerie how similar some of Porzingis' advanced stats have been to Towns' this season:

Porzingis Vs. Towns

PLAYER	USAGE	TS%	REBOUND%	BLOCK%	WIN%	WARP
Porzingis 0.241 0.536 17.8 5.2 0.627 2.6
Towns 0.242 0.564 18.4 6.4 0.626 2.3

Right now, the only difference between them in my wins above replacement player (WARP) stat is that the Knicks have played 21 games while the Timberwolves have played just 19.

I suspect we'll see them go back and forth for Rookie of the Year all season. But let's be clear that both of them are having remarkable rookie campaigns. Here are the best win percentages (the per-minute component of WARP, akin to PER) for rookies in the past decade:

Best Rookie Win Percentages
PLAYER TEAM SEASON WIN% WARP
Chris Paul NOH 2005-06 .688 15.7
Andre Drummond DET 2012-13 .687 7.1
Kenneth Faried DEN 2011-12 .664 6.8
Kristaps Porzingis NYK 2015-16 .627 2.6
Karl-Anthony Towns MIN 2015-16 .626 2.3
Anthony Davis NOH 2012-13 .626 8.2
Kyrie Irving CLE 2011-12 .615 7.0
Blake Griffin LAC 2010-11 .608 12.5
Nikola Mirotic CHI 2014-15 .606 6.7
Since 2005

It's early December, so we'd expect both guys to regress to the mean somewhat. But they're off to outstanding starts.

Why Porzingis is not the next Dirk

Ford: Based on his success, the question becomes just how good Porzingis will be once he adds a little more experience, gains some more strength and gets some better teammates around him?

One way of trying to assess potential is determining a legitimate NBA comparison for him. There were several used before the draft: Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh.

The comparison that comes up most is Dirk, and his Dallas Mavericks are in New York to face the Knicks on Monday, so let's start there.

Early in the season, you said that was a reasonable comparison based on what your SCHOENE projection system showed. Does that comparison still work?

Both are bigs who move well and stroke the ball from the perimeter. But Porzingis seems to be a much better defender, especially as a shot blocker, than Nowitzki ever was.

Pelton: As the season has gone on, the Porzingis-Nowitzki comparison has become less apt. In fact, Dirk now ranks as the 24th most similar player to Porzingis at the same age.

Part of the issue is simply that Porzingis has been more effective than Nowitzki was as a rookie. Remember, Dirk got only a lockout-shortened training camp to adjust to the NBA and shot 40.5 percent during the 50-game season.

On the flip side, Dirk became one of the greatest shooters of all time. While Porzingis has shown plenty of potential, to expect him to be "the next Dirk" as a shooter is to suggest that he'll be able to match the greatest big-man shooter we've ever seen. As Andrea Bargnani and many others have shown, that's easier said than done.

Their styles have also been different, as you note. I think about it this way: What was your favorite Dirk tip dunk? Or blocked shot?

Nowitzki's best season as a shot blocker saw him swat 2.9 percent of opponents' 2-point attempts. Porzingis' block percentage is 5.2 percent. That difference is why I think we both see Porzingis as a future center, a position Nowitzki has played only sporadically over the course of his career.

So if not Dirk, who is a good comparison for Porzingis?


Porzingis has played more like Chris Bosh than Nowitzki, but even that comparisons doesn't quite fit. Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE via Getty Images
Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh and other comps

Ford: This is where it gets tricky for me. I've had this assignment for two weeks, have combed through players who have his combination of size, athleticism, defensive potential, ability to stretch the floor and swagger. And I don't just want a tired Euro-for-Euro comp. Porzingis doesn't play like any European I've ever seen.

The truth from my end? I can't find anyone who ticks all of those boxes. I can find someone who ticks three, maybe four. But not all five. So here's my closest -- and this is a stretch: What if he's Anthony Davis?

Davis is skilled and athletic, he blocks shots and, now that he's showing off his 3-point range this season, both guys can stretch the floor.

Kevin, I know you've come up with some statistical profiles that match, and my guess is Anthony Davis isn't one of them. The AD comparison is more about my excitement over what kind of transformational player Porzingis could be in the league. Who do you have?

Pelton: Yeah, Davis is a little below Nowitzki on the list. As compared to Porzingis, Davis had a better steal and turnover rate and was far more accurate as a 2-point shooter. At the same time, Davis wasn't nearly the 3-point shooter at the same age that Porzingis is.

SCHOENE isn't feeling comparisons to European players, either. In fact, none of the 15 players with the highest similarity scores at the same age is international.

The top of the list is a little odd. SCHOENE makes Brook Lopez the closest match even though how he and Porzingis achieved similar results is very different in terms of athleticism and shooting range. I suspect that will fade as the season goes on. After another couple of more traditional big men -- Joe Smith and Derrick Favors -- come Kevin Garnett and Chris Bosh.

Subjectively, I think Bosh might be as good a comparison as we're going to get. Like Davis, he didn't become a major 3-point shooter until later in his career. And Porzingis has a 4-inch edge in height. But Bosh is a pretty good match for the evolution Porzingis may be able to make from power forward who is a threat on the perimeter into revolutionary stretch 5. How does that sound?

Porzingis appears to be a new archetype

Ford: Brook Lopez? So this piece will be entitled "Why does SCHOENE hate Porzingis?" Knicks fans are going to take out SCHOENE.

Bosh sounds more reasonable. I like Davis better as a comp, especially now that Alvin Gentry is unleashing his potential on the perimeter. However, I see the Bosh comparisons as well. He was one of the original comps scouts used along with Nowitzki and Gasol -- thin, skilled big men who can stretch the floor.

But Porzingis is bigger, a better shot blocker and a more prolific 3-point shooter. And he seems tougher than Bosh.

Garnett is another comp I like. He never became a great 3-point shooter, and Porzingis doesn't have KG's motor, but I see a lot of other similarities.

But really, all of this discussion makes me think there might not be a good comp for Porzingis. He's a unique player physically whose skill set is perfectly suited for the modern NBA that asks them to protect the rim, guard multiple positions on defense and do more than post up and clog the paint on offense.

Pelton: I agree with that. One thing I've learned in many years of using similarity scores is while they're fun, they are also limited. It's difficult to balance the need to find players of similar quality and those with similar styles. And similarity scores completely fall short when it comes to truly unique players. A 7-foot-3 player with his incredible quickness and shooting ability, Porzingis might be just such a unicorn.

We've tried and failed for 15 years now to find the "next Dirk Nowitzki."

Now we have a potential new NBA star who appears to be unlike anyone we've seen before. With any luck, he will force us to spend 15 years looking for the "next Kristaps Porzingis."

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