Knicks · Araton on Porzingis-- good read (page 1)
I'll try to read it, but I feel terrible doing it.
WaltLongmire wrote:Hasn't CrushAlot made a rule that we are not supposed to read stuff by Araton?!Only if it has his bi-annual interview with George Karl or is his best guess at reading Phil Jackson's mind.I'll try to read it, but I feel terrible doing it.
CrushAlot wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Hasn't CrushAlot made a rule that we are not supposed to read stuff by Araton?!Only if it has his bi-annual interview with George Karl or is his best guess at reading Phil Jackson's mind.I'll try to read it, but I feel terrible doing it.
araton succeeded in doing so. maybe some props are due to him.
Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch. 
nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
It made for a clever sound bite but was also a cheap joke, wildly out of context to the point of near fabrication.
Phil shouldn't be telling "cheap jokes" about KP, don't care what his motivation is. He's the Zen master, I know, but that was not cool.
GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
It made for a clever sound bite but was also a cheap joke, wildly out of context to the point of near fabrication.Phil shouldn't be telling "cheap jokes" about KP, don't care what his motivation is. He's the Zen master, I know, but that was not cool.
phil doing his old school KGB thing.
mreinman wrote:GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
It made for a clever sound bite but was also a cheap joke, wildly out of context to the point of near fabrication.Phil shouldn't be telling "cheap jokes" about KP, don't care what his motivation is. He's the Zen master, I know, but that was not cool.
phil doing his old school KGB thing.
Dont remember any exec saying anything like that right after making the pick, so I dont know if that qualifies as old school. Not the end of the world of course, but not something to pat Phil on the back for saying either.
GustavBahler wrote:mreinman wrote:GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
It made for a clever sound bite but was also a cheap joke, wildly out of context to the point of near fabrication.Phil shouldn't be telling "cheap jokes" about KP, don't care what his motivation is. He's the Zen master, I know, but that was not cool.
phil doing his old school KGB thing.
Dont remember any exec saying anything like that right after making the pick, so I dont know if that qualifies as old school. Not the end of the world of course, but not something to pat Phil on the back for saying either.
... or he could have been sand-bagging you.
dk7th wrote:GustavBahler wrote:mreinman wrote:GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
It made for a clever sound bite but was also a cheap joke, wildly out of context to the point of near fabrication.Phil shouldn't be telling "cheap jokes" about KP, don't care what his motivation is. He's the Zen master, I know, but that was not cool.
phil doing his old school KGB thing.
Dont remember any exec saying anything like that right after making the pick, so I dont know if that qualifies as old school. Not the end of the world of course, but not something to pat Phil on the back for saying either.
... or he could have been sand-bagging you.
Dont care about his motivation, I thought it was in poor taste.
GustavBahler wrote:dk7th wrote:GustavBahler wrote:mreinman wrote:GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
It made for a clever sound bite but was also a cheap joke, wildly out of context to the point of near fabrication.Phil shouldn't be telling "cheap jokes" about KP, don't care what his motivation is. He's the Zen master, I know, but that was not cool.
phil doing his old school KGB thing.
Dont remember any exec saying anything like that right after making the pick, so I dont know if that qualifies as old school. Not the end of the world of course, but not something to pat Phil on the back for saying either.
... or he could have been sand-bagging you.
Dont care about his motivation, I thought it was in poor taste.
agreed.
GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
I have no idea what you are talking about. I was a Pro WCS guy but I was not a vociferous anti KP guy. I was just concerned about how they said he was so far from being able to contribute. I was worried the fanbase would not be patient with KP if he needed years to develop. I always recognized his talent.
nixluva wrote:KrisP is extremely talented but also a huge risk. I just don't know that Phil could take that risk in NY. We don't have the patience to wait on anything. That's been proven over and over, including this year.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...
nixluva wrote:GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
I have no idea what you are talking about. I was a Pro WCS guy but I was not a vociferous anti KP guy. I was just concerned about how they said he was so far from being able to contribute. I was worried the fanbase would not be patient with KP if he needed years to develop. I always recognized his talent.
nixluva wrote:KrisP is extremely talented but also a huge risk. I just don't know that Phil could take that risk in NY. We don't have the patience to wait on anything. That's been proven over and over, including this year.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...
I recall you posting angrily that the media had "lied to you" about KP, and thats why you were so down on him, and so high on WCS.
I wanted Russell, still believe that he will turn into a special player once the Kobe show is over. That's why I cant fault the media for not picking KP over Russell because I did the same thing. I thought Stephen A went over the top, but I dont fault him for having his doubts. Nobody except maybe the Porzingis family thought he would be this good out of the gate.
I thought the same thing you did in that quote, but I remember (maybe incorrectly) you being more down on KP than neutral in other posts.
GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
I have no idea what you are talking about. I was a Pro WCS guy but I was not a vociferous anti KP guy. I was just concerned about how they said he was so far from being able to contribute. I was worried the fanbase would not be patient with KP if he needed years to develop. I always recognized his talent.
nixluva wrote:KrisP is extremely talented but also a huge risk. I just don't know that Phil could take that risk in NY. We don't have the patience to wait on anything. That's been proven over and over, including this year.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...I recall you posting angrily that the media had "lied to you" about KP, and thats why you were so down on him, and so high on WCS.
I wanted Russell, still believe that he will turn into a special player once the Kobe show is over. That's why I cant fault the media for not picking KP over Russell because I did the same thing. I thought Stephen A went over the top, but I dont fault him for having his doubts. Nobody except maybe the Porzingis family thought he would be this good out of the gate.
I thought the same thing you did in that quote, but I remember (maybe incorrectly) you being more down on KP than neutral in other posts.
We all played devils advocate when trying to discuss each players fitness for taking at 4 but I was not down on KP's talent just concerned he was a long term project in an impatient city. I did trust Phil and his staffs judgement on talent tho. If he was sold on KP then I felt he had a much better handle on KP than any of us could have.
The pros are supposed to have much better Intel and access than us but they mostly did a horrible job outside of a few guys who really did their homework and knew what they were talking about regarding KP. Phil and Clarence knew!
GustavBahler wrote:dk7th wrote:GustavBahler wrote:mreinman wrote:GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
It made for a clever sound bite but was also a cheap joke, wildly out of context to the point of near fabrication.Phil shouldn't be telling "cheap jokes" about KP, don't care what his motivation is. He's the Zen master, I know, but that was not cool.
phil doing his old school KGB thing.
Dont remember any exec saying anything like that right after making the pick, so I dont know if that qualifies as old school. Not the end of the world of course, but not something to pat Phil on the back for saying either.
... or he could have been sand-bagging you.
Dont care about his motivation, I thought it was in poor taste.
so you are stating a subjective opinion and not making a moral condemnation?
mreinman wrote:GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
It made for a clever sound bite but was also a cheap joke, wildly out of context to the point of near fabrication.Phil shouldn't be telling "cheap jokes" about KP, don't care what his motivation is. He's the Zen master, I know, but that was not cool.
phil doing his old school KGB thing.
He likes to provoke people, no doubt about it.
Hard to read him, sometimes, but I never really took the Bradley comment seriously, and I doubt if he did, either.
The reporters loved using the Bradley comparison it because it was a chance to take pokes at Jackson, but he would not have taken Porzingis if he thought he was like Shawn.
dk7th wrote:GustavBahler wrote:dk7th wrote:GustavBahler wrote:mreinman wrote:GustavBahler wrote:nixluva wrote:I'm glad he debunked the notion that somehow Phil didn't really believe in KP because of his Shawn Bradley comments. Phil NEVER said he was gonna be Shawn Bradley! That as usual was the MEDIA coming up with that crap when he was really just musing about KP being so tall. Plus you have to know Phil and how he talks to realize that he thinks out loud about all kinds of things that go thru his mind, but it's more important that Phil DRAFTED KP as his signature move. That was a legacy pick for Phil. He knew he would never get another chance to make a pick that had the potential to land a franchise talent. To think he was somehow down on KP is just plain stupid. Phil says good and bad things about EVERYONE.Anyway it also isn't so true that Phil didn't foresee success for KP. Phil was very clear that he wanted KP to start and that he expected him to be able to contribute. He wanted to keep his minutes in a reasonable amount early on but he saw those minutes increasing with time. KP has been even better than anyone expected but that was with reference to how fast he's developed and not with regard to his actual talent level. We got to see KP's dedication and effort level before the season. You could see his drive to get better. It's inevitable the the usually negative Media would come around and start writing positive articles on KP. They are frontrunners and try to go with popular things. Even SAS is changing his tune.
Just wonder how they'll react if KP goes thru a rough patch.
You changed your tune about KP as well...
It made for a clever sound bite but was also a cheap joke, wildly out of context to the point of near fabrication.Phil shouldn't be telling "cheap jokes" about KP, don't care what his motivation is. He's the Zen master, I know, but that was not cool.
phil doing his old school KGB thing.
Dont remember any exec saying anything like that right after making the pick, so I dont know if that qualifies as old school. Not the end of the world of course, but not something to pat Phil on the back for saying either.
... or he could have been sand-bagging you.
Dont care about his motivation, I thought it was in poor taste.
so you are stating a subjective opinion and not making a moral condemnation?
Nothing objective about a moral condemnation. I didn't like it, thats all I have to say. Enjoy the game.
CrushAlot wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Hasn't CrushAlot made a rule that we are not supposed to read stuff by Araton?!Only if it has his bi-annual interview with George Karl or is his best guess at reading Phil Jackson's mind.I'll try to read it, but I feel terrible doing it.
don't worry ... he got in his melo dig 
Jackson wasn’t settling for an upgrade to Carmelo Anthony’s support group; he imagined, in Porzingis, an eventual centerpiece and talent magnet that Anthony, 31, could no longer be, if he ever was.
mreinman wrote:Yeah. Too bad there wasn't another Butch Beard interview. Nothing new as far as quotes and info.CrushAlot wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Hasn't CrushAlot made a rule that we are not supposed to read stuff by Araton?!Only if it has his bi-annual interview with George Karl or is his best guess at reading Phil Jackson's mind.I'll try to read it, but I feel terrible doing it.
don't worry ... he got in his melo dig
Jackson wasn’t settling for an upgrade to Carmelo Anthony’s support group; he imagined, in Porzingis, an eventual centerpiece and talent magnet that Anthony, 31, could no longer be, if he ever was.