Knicks · The Return of The Real Carmelo (page 2)
fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etc
dk7th wrote:I believe the only playoff matchup he's ever been favored in and lost was the Knicks vs. Pacers, if you watched those games what did he get from his supporting cast? How did Tyson do vs. Hibbert? How did JR shoot? Did Kidd (MVP) even play?fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
you're right... it's his style of play. so you can't throw his teammates under the bus for the playoff failures every single year. that's just a way of avoiding the uncomfortable truth that his style of play, with its profound flaws, gets exposed in the playoffs. he is the the red thread in his own career.
I dont make excuses for Melo, but some perspective on his playoff failures wouldnt hurt either.
crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etc
the Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
ChuckBuck wrote:start with "above average player"fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
Keep playing dumb. It suits.
fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:start with "above average player"fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
Keep playing dumb. It suits.
Since when is "above average player" a negative? It's true, isn't it?
It's not like he averages 50% FG, 90% FT, 40% 3PT. He rarely gets a double double on the Knicks, that's KP's territory. He doesn't get triple doubles, like ever. He doesn't average a block and a steal per game. He puts up 20 points on 40%...that's better than average.
What's the gripe, again?
fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:I never quoted numbers. He's has carried teams with his scoring for months at a time and won player of the month while doing so. I value the wins, not the other #s. Thats what I want to see.fishmike wrote:the real Carmelo was able to sustain performances like that for a month at time and carry a team to many wins while winning NBA player of the month. What we have now is an oversized SF who takes tons of jump shots. Its very possible (cringe) this team was built with that Carmelo (the *real* Carmelo) in mind and he's never coming back. Time will tell. Portland game was promising. So was Sac. Some hybrid of the two is ideal.He never avg'd 10 rebounds and 5 assists for a month. He probably never did that for 3 straight games.
Of course he has. He better have if he is even in this conversation. I want the next level ... unselfish basketball at all times.
knicks1248 wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
you're right... it's his style of play. so you can't throw his teammates under the bus for the playoff failures every single year. that's just a way of avoiding the uncomfortable truth that his style of play, with its profound flaws, gets exposed in the playoffs. he is the the red thread in his own career.
Would you keep passing to players if they kept missing just to say i'm a team player, would you do anything with anyone who's unreliable. The only time your best scorer should pass the ball is if he's double, or if someone has a better shot. Too many times i see passes that never had a chance, it results in a T O, and the same peole who wanted him to pass, will say how could make that pass.All i ever want from a player, is to play hard and smart, if you do that, every hitting else will work out
He does not pass if he is doubled or tripled.
There are many players that played with bad teams / teammates that still passed. What he does not realize is that these teammates can hit shot at a much higher rate when shooting assisted shots then melo trying to bully a triple team or Paul George.
ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:start with "above average player"fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
Keep playing dumb. It suits.
Since when is "above average player" a negative? It's true, isn't it?
It's not like he averages 50% FG, 90% FT, 40% 3PT. He rarely gets a double double on the Knicks, that's KP's territory. He doesn't get triple doubles, like ever. He doesn't average a block and a steal per game. He puts up 20 points on 40%...that's better than average.
What's the gripe, again?
Since when you have to win a ring to be consider a star player. Why is it he's alway compared to kobe and labron, and those 2 dudes consider melo on their level.
mreinman wrote:The next level is knowing when to be unselfish and knowing when to be a scorer with tunnel vision. The team needs both.fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:I never quoted numbers. He's has carried teams with his scoring for months at a time and won player of the month while doing so. I value the wins, not the other #s. Thats what I want to see.fishmike wrote:the real Carmelo was able to sustain performances like that for a month at time and carry a team to many wins while winning NBA player of the month. What we have now is an oversized SF who takes tons of jump shots. Its very possible (cringe) this team was built with that Carmelo (the *real* Carmelo) in mind and he's never coming back. Time will tell. Portland game was promising. So was Sac. Some hybrid of the two is ideal.He never avg'd 10 rebounds and 5 assists for a month. He probably never did that for 3 straight games.
Of course he has. He better have if he is even in this conversation. I want the next level ... unselfish basketball at all times.
mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:the real Carmelo was able to sustain performances like that for a month at time and carry a team to many wins while winning NBA player of the month. What we have now is an oversized SF who takes tons of jump shots. Its very possible (cringe) this team was built with that Carmelo (the *real* Carmelo) in mind and he's never coming back. Time will tell. Portland game was promising. So was Sac. Some hybrid of the two is ideal.He never avg'd 10 rebounds and 5 assists for a month. He probably never did that for 3 straight games.
I remember Melo having a series 15-20 rebound games during one stretch a couple of years ago, dont know what the assists were.
knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:start with "above average player"fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
Keep playing dumb. It suits.
Since when is "above average player" a negative? It's true, isn't it?
It's not like he averages 50% FG, 90% FT, 40% 3PT. He rarely gets a double double on the Knicks, that's KP's territory. He doesn't get triple doubles, like ever. He doesn't average a block and a steal per game. He puts up 20 points on 40%...that's better than average.
What's the gripe, again?
Since when you have to win a ring to be consider a star player. Why is it he's alway compared to kobe and labron, and those 2 dudes consider melo on their level.
There's lots of stars in the NBA, Melo is one of them. Seems each team has their own star, no matter their stats or team record.
There are about only a handful of "Superstar" or "Generational Talents" or "Elite athletes" in the NBA. Melo is not in this category.
Melo should never be compared to Kobe or Lebron, it's not fair to them, it's not fair to Melo. Melo should be compared to other contemporaries that are ringless like CP3 or Durant or Griffin or Aldridge. He's distant from CP3 and KD, but closer in stature to Aldridge. More than fair comparison.
ChuckBuck wrote:What has CP3 accomplished that make him distant from Melo?knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:start with "above average player"fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
Keep playing dumb. It suits.
Since when is "above average player" a negative? It's true, isn't it?
It's not like he averages 50% FG, 90% FT, 40% 3PT. He rarely gets a double double on the Knicks, that's KP's territory. He doesn't get triple doubles, like ever. He doesn't average a block and a steal per game. He puts up 20 points on 40%...that's better than average.
What's the gripe, again?
Since when you have to win a ring to be consider a star player. Why is it he's alway compared to kobe and labron, and those 2 dudes consider melo on their level.
There's lots of stars in the NBA, Melo is one of them. Seems each team has their own star, no matter their stats or team record.
There are about only a handful of "Superstar" or "Generational Talents" or "Elite athletes" in the NBA. Melo is not in this category.
Melo should never be compared to Kobe or Lebron, it's not fair to them, it's not fair to Melo. Melo should be compared to other contemporaries that are ringless like CP3 or Durant or Griffin or Aldridge. He's distant from CP3 and KD, but closer in stature to Aldridge. More than fair comparison.
Nice reply. Sig worthy so everyone can read your words over and over again.
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
eli sucks!
knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:start with "above average player"fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
Keep playing dumb. It suits.
Since when is "above average player" a negative? It's true, isn't it?
It's not like he averages 50% FG, 90% FT, 40% 3PT. He rarely gets a double double on the Knicks, that's KP's territory. He doesn't get triple doubles, like ever. He doesn't average a block and a steal per game. He puts up 20 points on 40%...that's better than average.
What's the gripe, again?
Since when you have to win a ring to be consider a star player. Why is it he's alway compared to kobe and labron, and those 2 dudes consider melo on their level.
oh no they don't ... puh lease
fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:The next level is knowing when to be unselfish and knowing when to be a scorer with tunnel vision. The team needs both.fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:I never quoted numbers. He's has carried teams with his scoring for months at a time and won player of the month while doing so. I value the wins, not the other #s. Thats what I want to see.fishmike wrote:the real Carmelo was able to sustain performances like that for a month at time and carry a team to many wins while winning NBA player of the month. What we have now is an oversized SF who takes tons of jump shots. Its very possible (cringe) this team was built with that Carmelo (the *real* Carmelo) in mind and he's never coming back. Time will tell. Portland game was promising. So was Sac. Some hybrid of the two is ideal.He never avg'd 10 rebounds and 5 assists for a month. He probably never did that for 3 straight games.
Of course he has. He better have if he is even in this conversation. I want the next level ... unselfish basketball at all times.
Of course.
ChuckBuck wrote:knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:start with "above average player"fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
Keep playing dumb. It suits.
Since when is "above average player" a negative? It's true, isn't it?
It's not like he averages 50% FG, 90% FT, 40% 3PT. He rarely gets a double double on the Knicks, that's KP's territory. He doesn't get triple doubles, like ever. He doesn't average a block and a steal per game. He puts up 20 points on 40%...that's better than average.
What's the gripe, again?
Since when you have to win a ring to be consider a star player. Why is it he's alway compared to kobe and labron, and those 2 dudes consider melo on their level.
There's lots of stars in the NBA, Melo is one of them. Seems each team has their own star, no matter their stats or team record.
There are about only a handful of "Superstar" or "Generational Talents" or "Elite athletes" in the NBA. Melo is not in this category.
Melo should never be compared to Kobe or Lebron, it's not fair to them, it's not fair to Melo. Melo should be compared to other contemporaries that are ringless like CP3 or Durant or Griffin or Aldridge. He's distant from CP3 and KD, but closer in stature to Aldridge. More than fair comparison.
Aldridge is a very good comp though I believe that Melo is better.
fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:What has CP3 accomplished that make him distant from Melo?knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:start with "above average player"fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
Keep playing dumb. It suits.
Since when is "above average player" a negative? It's true, isn't it?
It's not like he averages 50% FG, 90% FT, 40% 3PT. He rarely gets a double double on the Knicks, that's KP's territory. He doesn't get triple doubles, like ever. He doesn't average a block and a steal per game. He puts up 20 points on 40%...that's better than average.
What's the gripe, again?
Since when you have to win a ring to be consider a star player. Why is it he's alway compared to kobe and labron, and those 2 dudes consider melo on their level.
There's lots of stars in the NBA, Melo is one of them. Seems each team has their own star, no matter their stats or team record.
There are about only a handful of "Superstar" or "Generational Talents" or "Elite athletes" in the NBA. Melo is not in this category.
Melo should never be compared to Kobe or Lebron, it's not fair to them, it's not fair to Melo. Melo should be compared to other contemporaries that are ringless like CP3 or Durant or Griffin or Aldridge. He's distant from CP3 and KD, but closer in stature to Aldridge. More than fair comparison.
Nice reply. Sig worthy so everyone can read your words over and over again.
Chris Paul has made several All NBA 1st teams and Defensive teams. It's like making All Pro in the NFL, not a popularity contest, but totally based on merit and quality of play.
Honors
2003 McDonald's All American
2004-05 NCAA AP All-America (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2012-13 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2013-14 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2013-14 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2014-15 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2014-15 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
Basically Chris Paul has been best in class for awhile. Melo has never been best in anything.
fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:What has CP3 accomplished that make him distant from Melo?knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:start with "above average player"fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:you beat me to it. Thats the perspective. No excuses, just perspective. Excellent post.fishmike wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.
If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.
If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.
You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.
Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.
At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?
As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!
Melo is an interesting player. He's very very very good. He's not Lebron or Jordan or Kobe - but for some reason there is this weird expectation he should be? I think he's the next tier down. He's advanced to the conference finals in the stacked Western Conference, something Chris Paul has never done. Something TMac never did. Etc. He came to NY and has played very well, but you can argue we've made some terrible team building decisions around him. Exercising Billups' team option only to amnesty him after the lockout. Then not having that amnesty for Amare. Trading for Bargnani. Letting Lin go for nothing in return. Passing on the potential to trade for Kyle Lowry, which would've been their best trade in years. etc.
You look at his seasons in Denver - he had a pretty good team around him in a stacked Western Conference. In the first round every year they were matching up against the top teams in the West. look at this - three of six years lost to the NBA champion, another year lost to the Lakers who made the Finals, another year the Timberwolves who had MVP KG and made the WCF.
2004 - rookie season lost to the Western conf finalists Timberwolves in KG's MVP season.
2005 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2006 - lost to the Clippers in first round
2007 - lost to the NBA champion Spurs in first round
2008 - lost to the NBA finalists Lakers in first round
2009 - made conference finals, lost to NBA champion Lakers in 6 games
etcthe Melo hate starts with he's not Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc... then its what part of those guy's games does Melo lack. Then its Melo is a selfish me-first asshole for not being more like those guys.
My biggest rooting interest in Melo is the handful of Knick fans who hate him so. Its the same thing that made me enjoy the Giant SBs so much, the amount of Eli-hate from very vocal Giant fans was (and still is) amazing to me. Love seeing haters in life proved wrong.
But how are the Melo lovers proved right?
He hasn't won a ring, he hasn't won or come close to a MVP, he hasn't made an All NBA 1st team or All NBA Defensive team.
He only won 1 scoring title, at what he's supposedly best at....what exactly are the true Knicks fans wrong about?
Keep playing dumb. It suits.
Since when is "above average player" a negative? It's true, isn't it?
It's not like he averages 50% FG, 90% FT, 40% 3PT. He rarely gets a double double on the Knicks, that's KP's territory. He doesn't get triple doubles, like ever. He doesn't average a block and a steal per game. He puts up 20 points on 40%...that's better than average.
What's the gripe, again?
Since when you have to win a ring to be consider a star player. Why is it he's alway compared to kobe and labron, and those 2 dudes consider melo on their level.
There's lots of stars in the NBA, Melo is one of them. Seems each team has their own star, no matter their stats or team record.
There are about only a handful of "Superstar" or "Generational Talents" or "Elite athletes" in the NBA. Melo is not in this category.
Melo should never be compared to Kobe or Lebron, it's not fair to them, it's not fair to Melo. Melo should be compared to other contemporaries that are ringless like CP3 or Durant or Griffin or Aldridge. He's distant from CP3 and KD, but closer in stature to Aldridge. More than fair comparison.
Nice reply. Sig worthy so everyone can read your words over and over again.
you kidding me? Thats a joke. CP3 is one of the best PG's of all time. Rings are about context ... he always played great. Like off the charts great.
Cp3 and melo are worlds apart and anyone who thinks different is completely missing the boat.
mreinman wrote:
you kidding me? Thats a joke. CP3 is one of the best PG's of all time. Rings are about context ... he always played great. Like off the charts great.Cp3 and melo are worlds apart and anyone who thinks different is completely missing the boat.
Honest question - isn't he held to the same standard of making his teammates better that Melo is? Why hasn't he ever made it out of the second round?
People used to ride Melo and Tmac for this all the time - not making it out of the second round. It's sort of funny to me that you don't hear it about CP3 as much.
And for an all-time great at PG, he sure gets abused by Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook quite a bit.
crzymdups wrote:
And for an all-time great at PG, he sure gets abused by Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook quite a bit.
Who doesn't though? Poor picture trying to be painted there. CP3 is in the downside of his great career but still putting up respectable numbers. Melo the last couple of years, abysmal.
CP3 in his prime is in illustrious Magic, Stockton, Kidd, Isiah company.