bigbasketballs wrote:So if they don't win their 29th game, they should reasonably stop thinking about making the playoffs?
That's not fair . .. because it's not as extreme as that, of course.
Winning is not everything (especially in the Triangle culture). But it's not nothing, either.
If you "should" win a game and don't . . . that's usually telling you something.
This game can tell the Knicks something about where they stand.
crzymdups wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:crzymdups wrote:Malcolm wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Eh, no must-wins in December.
I understand that.But we can, I believe, start to think about what is reasonable to expect.
For example, I discount the win against Chicago quite a bit -- Fisher seemed to do so as well. What that means is that in the circumstances it was reasonable to expect the Knicks to win. A loss in that game would have been pitiful.
What should we expect against Orlando tonight (?) A home game against a team playing back-to-back (?)
Again, I think a win is to be expected.
Winning games you are expected to win is a definite stage of development . . .
I think this is fair. If the Knicks are thinking about making the playoffs, this is the sort of game they have to win.
So if they don't win their 29th game, they should reasonably stop thinking about making the playoffs?
Obviously I didn't say that. I said this is the sort of game they have to win if they want to make the playoffs. Orlando is the 9th seed, but has played slightly better than the Knicks so far this year and beaten them once. They need to win games like this on their schedule if they want to make the playoffs. Obviously that's not a cut and dry statement and they can lose this game and still make the playoffs - though against an opponent who will likely be near them in the standings, winning the season series is pretty important and they're already down 0-1 to Orlando.
Listen, 'have to win' and 'need to win' mean what they mean. Knicks don't have to win this game and they don't need to win this game.
They lose tonight and win in Cleveland, who is thinking about this game by the weekend?
It'd be a nice win, I agree. I just don't see it as anything more than a game you'd like to see the team win.
Malcolm wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:So if they don't win their 29th game, they should reasonably stop thinking about making the playoffs?
That's not fair . .. because it's not as extreme as that, of course.
Winning is not everything (especially in the Triangle culture). But it's not nothing, either.
If you "should" win a game and don't . . . that's usually telling you something.
This game can tell the Knicks something about where they stand.
Okay, so you're saying the game will have predictive value? Depending on what occurs tonight, we'll be able to forecast the remainder of the season with significant more accuracy?
bigbasketballs wrote:Okay, so you're saying the game will have predictive value? Depending on what occurs tonight, we'll be able to forecast the remainder of the season with significant more accuracy?
Well, consider the recent Porzingis back-and-forth.
He was telling reporters that he didn't understand the whole "rookie wall" business.
Then the Knicks went on the road . . . lots of games . . . lots of travel . . . and KP scores zero points in a game.
He comes back to reporters: "Yeah, okay. I know what the rookie wall is now."
So you learn from various types of games/situations where you stand.
It's not "predictive" . . . it's "enlightening" (LOL).
bigbasketballs wrote:Malcolm wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:So if they don't win their 29th game, they should reasonably stop thinking about making the playoffs?
That's not fair . .. because it's not as extreme as that, of course.
Winning is not everything (especially in the Triangle culture). But it's not nothing, either.
If you "should" win a game and don't . . . that's usually telling you something.
This game can tell the Knicks something about where they stand.
Okay, so you're saying the game will have predictive value? Depending on what occurs tonight, we'll be able to forecast the remainder of the season with significant more accuracy?
predictive value in terms of trending upwards or downwards is about all one can say at this point. according to basketballreference.com they are trending towards 38-39 wins... not enough for a playoff berth but a 21-game improvement is a delightful trend to take into 2016-17 season.
Malcolm wrote:Well, consider the recent Porzingis back-and-forth.He was telling reporters that he didn't understand the whole "rookie wall" business.
Then the Knicks went on the road . . . lots of games . . . lots of travel . . . and KP scores zero points in a game.
He comes back to reporters: "Yeah, okay. I know what the rookie wall is now."
So you learn from various types of games/situations where you stand.
It's not "predictive" . . . it's "enlightening" (LOL).
The point is . . . that Porzingis was only going to learn that in
multiple games on the road.
Certain types of games tell you certain types of things.
This Orlando game tonight is that type of game.
crzymdups wrote:craaaaaaaaaaap. KOQ out.
That's not good .. the Magic has been winning from their many BIGS in their rotation lineup
Malcolm wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Okay, so you're saying the game will have predictive value? Depending on what occurs tonight, we'll be able to forecast the remainder of the season with significant more accuracy?
Well, consider the recent Porzingis back-and-forth.
He was telling reporters that he didn't understand the whole "rookie wall" business.
Then the Knicks went on the road . . . lots of games . . . lots of travel . . . and KP scores zero points in a game.
He comes back to reporters: "Yeah, okay. I know what the rookie wall is now."
So you learn from various types of games/situations where you stand.
It's not "predictive" . . . it's "enlightening" (LOL).
I don't think it is. Any team can have a bad off night. Any team can have a hot night.
As I say, I get you guys are saying it'd be a nice win for all legitimate reasons, I just think you're not satisfied with just that and are trying to add extra mustard. When I essentially simple vocalize the implications of these things, you guys say 'well, obviously I didn't mean that'.
All I'm saying as a sports fan, I've seen too many statement games, too many bellwether games, too many temperature games not mean a thing the next game played to put much stock in them.
I'd be more than happy if the Knicks could somehow manage to win 1 of the next 2. How they do it - the hard way or the easy way doesn't matter.
How good were we all feeling at 8-6?
Then 2-8 happens.
Because basketball.
bigbasketballs wrote:Malcolm wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:
Yes, I think it is reasonable to expect the Knicks to win this game. But if they lose I don't think you'll find much predictive about it.
Unless the Sixers, Lakers,GS or Spurs are playing I wouldn't be that surprised by any win/loss in today's NBA.
I just added a line to my previous post: Winning games you are expected to win is a definite stage of development . . .
I do get you guys are just tying to illustrate a 14-14 team beating a 15-13 on the second leg of a back-to-back at home is a game you want your team to win.
I just don't see it as being a turning point in the season one way or another.
Are the $124M player and company capable of beating teams Magic, Boston, Pistons, and Hornets in the regular season?
Is the real question
bigbasketballs wrote:All I'm saying as a sports fan, I've seen too many statement games, too many bellwether games, too many temperature games not mean a thing the next game played to put much stock in them.
Okay.
But have you studied Phil Jackson's books (?)
Let me suggest to you that maybe (just maybe . . .) games in the Jackson-Triangle culture are unlike all of these other games that you're talking about.
Maybe what happens in 2015-2016 Knick games has a different purpose and meaning.
Just maybe -- okay (?)
Kemet wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Malcolm wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:
Yes, I think it is reasonable to expect the Knicks to win this game. But if they lose I don't think you'll find much predictive about it.
Unless the Sixers, Lakers,GS or Spurs are playing I wouldn't be that surprised by any win/loss in today's NBA.
I just added a line to my previous post: Winning games you are expected to win is a definite stage of development . . .
I do get you guys are just tying to illustrate a 14-14 team beating a 15-13 on the second leg of a back-to-back at home is a game you want your team to win.
I just don't see it as being a turning point in the season one way or another.
Are the $124M player and company capable of beating teams Magic, Boston, Pistons, and Hornets in the regular season?
Is the real question
They already beat the Hornets.
As to the rest I think evidence already suggests that are capable.
Whether they do is another story and what makes sports sports.
bigbasketballs wrote:Eh, no must-wins in December. I get your reasoning, but I've seen too many lose-a-bad-one-but-win-a-good-one-to-balance-it-out and vice versa to go that route.
They could lose by 20 tonight and win by 1 Wed and no one will care about Monday.
The next 10 games the Knicks must play each one like it is a Must-Win game situation.
The Knicks next ten opponents are all .500 teams
Im still upset about the loss a couple of mondays ago to Dallas
Kemet wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Eh, no must-wins in December. I get your reasoning, but I've seen too many lose-a-bad-one-but-win-a-good-one-to-balance-it-out and vice versa to go that route.
They could lose by 20 tonight and win by 1 Wed and no one will care about Monday.
The next 10 games the Knicks must play each one like it is a Must-Win game situation.
The Knicks next ten opponents are all .500 teams
So what if they win 4 must-wins and lose 6 must-wins.
What will be know then?
It's not about the Win per se but more about HOW they play, win or lose. They need to continue to show progress in this positive direction.
Great D from Melo to start the game.
Terrible D by Calderon. Can we bring in Galloway yet?
Knicks dominating on the ORebs early.
