Back to Fisher.....
Kristaps made the block of the game on Olidipo (sp?) Then takes him out and doesn't bring him back till the game is over at the 2 min mark. Same goes for Grant. He had it going but he blew his load. Galloway should have also been put back in at the 5 min mark not the 2 min mark.
I'm not as hard on Fisher because he's ok sometimes, but tonight this loss was on his coaching ability. Kurt Rambis needs to step up and say something about it.
Anyone that coaches knows that in close games you have to make your run at the start of the 5 min mark if you want a chance at winning. Fisher consistently pissed away the game until the 2 min mark. It's too late by then.
Win 4 in a row and all is ok. Lose a game and again its the coach's fault.
You guys are all predictable.
This team has gone from god awful, to respectable. Many of todays top young coaches had really bad first seasons and grew into the job. It was expected. Not here with the genius hindsight crowd, they want the future now.
The other thing some of you just think there the coach struts after getting a rubdown, rubs his hands, looks at the guys warming up and thinks of a game plan. Not even considering the team of coach's and whats goes in.
I did not see the game last nite so I can't chime in, but its pretty obvious its the same cats after each loss that think some games are the knicks to win and blame must be assigned. How did Aflalo shoot? KP hitting his shots? Did Lance even miss a shot? Dwill Bone up the place?
Often its execution.
For others, I'm sure they are just sitting there thinking "How come we couldn't hire Scotty Skiles??!
Maybe you should see the game before you chime in "not chiming in"😊
And maybe the cats are right and fisher blew it. Magic played well and the Knicks really competed (which fisher deserves credit for) but his sub patterns were horrible and I'd say the same for his defensive adjustments but I didn't notice any
It's not only players who flub things up. Coaches can mess up too
Would have liked to have seen KP on Vucevic, Lopez was having a hard time defending him. KP (and his wingspan) was the only player who might have been able to slow Vuvecic down as he was shooting over Lopez. Lopez wasnt getting faked out, or letting Vuvecic blow right by him, just had a really nice arc on his shot last night, from Vuvecic's jump shot, to his runners, he put up some tough shots to defend.
As for Grant, that was a head scratcher. I was for giving Grant more responsibility, but what Fisher did last night was too much too soon. Really dont want to see this turn into a reboot of the Tim Hardaway Jr. story. Son of exp pro has his confidence shaken after getting drated by the Knicks. I dont anticipate the same collapse, at the same time, I hope Grant isn't a victim of more endless roster shuffling.
If Fisher is still playing musical lineups after the all star break, and the losses start piling up, then I hope we start looking for a possible replacement. Don't believe Fisher ever deserved to be fired after just one season, especially last season. But after 2 seasons, Melo's prime years evaporating, and KP's development to consider, he's fair game IMO. Jury is still out. Still time for Fisher to make a case for another season as head coach.
All the ranting on the coach is so typical and predictable, but it still amazes me that it keeps coming. The team was expected to be a sub 500 team coming into the season. The team is one game under 500. The team is not playing below expectations, but every game they lose and most that they win we hear what a terrible coach Fish is.
When players under achieve - it's Fish's fault, when players over-achieve Fish gets no credit. Whatever player is playing the guys on the bench would have been a better choice. Every fan has this roster totally figured out and knows every substitution to make.
The fans know that Grant, a guy who can't shoot and turns the ball over at a high rate obviously should be starting. They can see that a host of bench players - that have been inconsistent throughout their careers - would all be great if only Fish knew how to use them.
Fish has not been great, but the real problem is we have no starting caliber point guard and a bench made up of unproven players.
New York fans and coaches of NY teams are almost always a difficult mix.
Chandler wrote:Maybe you should see my the game before you chime in "not chiming in"😊And maybe the cats are right and fisher blew it. Magic played well and the Knicks really competed (which fisher deserves credit for) but his sub patterns were horrible and I'd say the same for his defensive adjustments but I didn't notice any
It's not only players who club things up. Coaches can mess up too
I don't need to see the game to know that coach's do at times not get it right.
Its the same thing after each loss that "fish is clueless" and its often by a few who are quick to access and indict his career. Usually no tangible replacement is offered. Sometimes they mention Mark Jax who won 23 game his first time out. Or Brad Stevens who also sucked his first year.
So why not chime in to remind some that like this team, Fish is a work in progress. I'll take the man who has more rings than any human in the game of professional basketball to make the call. If Phil fires him, then its valid. Until then its typical whining of fans who expect too much and don't look at the progress this team is making. Taking that for granted while not the coach and his staff is not balanced.
Also, lets not forget Fish is not the only coach. This other two clowns (rambis and Cleamans) have been assistants on championship teams!
Yes, Fisher makes mistakes that are easily seen after the matter. He'll do it again. And again, Im not saying he is not a good coach but one in the making. Just like many who started out rough. If Phil wants to pull the plug on him then his knick learning curve would be over and obviously there would be reason for it. As far as Im concerned As long as KP is making progress and Melo is improving his team play Im happy. Shyt's gonna happen cuz this team is not nearly complete.
NY fans will not change......But coaches do. I don't care if we were undefeated......when you watch a game you see things that don't show up in the stat sheet. Fisher is a great motivator and leader. Hes a perfect mentor for all nba players. But he also has some learning to do and weaknesses to improve on. I don't care what our record is we all have things we can do better at. For Fisher it's been his substitutions. Last year he had the same problem and we said it was the lack of talent. This year we have more talent....Fisher is a good coach but just like players are held accountable so should Fisher.
he is simply overmatched as a coach
Can anyone even think that at on game under .500 this team might be overachieving at this juncture?
He got Melo playing team ball at this juncture? KO got fixed? Lance Thomas went from scrub to 9/9?
KP is ROY candidate when the whole world said he was a project and we were crying after being bamboozled and hoodwinked?
Our back court is a disaster!
Is the above on the coach? of course not! We only blame him for the miscues!!
helloharv wrote:he is simply overmatched as a coach
Well u can say the same about KP.....which is why Fisher pulled him. And this is why Phil should pull Fisher.
Or
Leave KP in there and give him the same on the job training as Fisher.
This is why rookie coaches doesn't work with rookie players. KP and Grant need a veteran coach that understands how to develop rookies. Then you bring in a rookie coach later. I think Phils number 1 mistake was handing over the team to a rookie. Fisher wouldve did better as an assistant learning how to coach b4 taking over as the head coach. There were other veteran coaches that were available. ...just like Phil did for KP by surrounding him with vet bigs.....
I've always said KP shouldn't have started his first year. And I will say the same for Fisher. Both rookies including Fisher shouldve been off the bench learning from the vets. Next year KP wouldve learned how to play like an alpha dog......and Fisher wouldve learned how to develop rookies.
How is KP and Grant not developing? Taking a step backwards is part of every rookie learning curve?
Fish is in his second year. He was very much appraised positively by many players over the years helping them become solid pro's as a player.
You are correct fisher deserves credit for the thing you mention. The team is playing hard
What is your explanation for his sub patterns and lack of adjustments on D?
Other than the game against bulls they've been losing to teams on the back end of back-to-backs and playing slow line ups against what should be tired teams?
Is there something we're not seeing and you do?
Fisher coached like an utter NOOB last night, which unfortunately for us he is.
I still don't get why he pulled KP after that huge block on Oladipo. I'm pretty sure we came all the way back to 4 with KP altering shots like crazy, then just randomly inserts Lopez, who proceeds to get eviscerated by Vujevic. Then we don't see KP the rest of the way pretty much.
Just mind boggling...
Nalod wrote:Win 4 in a row and all is ok. Lose a game and again its the coach's fault.You guys are all predictable.
This team has gone from god awful, to respectable. Many of todays top young coaches had really bad first seasons and grew into the job. It was expected. Not here with the genius hindsight crowd, they want the future now.
The other thing some of you just think there the coach struts after getting a rubdown, rubs his hands, looks at the guys warming up and thinks of a game plan. Not even considering the team of coach's and whats goes in.
I did not see the game last nite so I can't chime in, but its pretty obvious its the same cats after each loss that think some games are the knicks to win and blame must be assigned. How did Aflalo shoot? KP hitting his shots? Did Lance even miss a shot? Dwill Bone up the place?
Often its execution.
For others, I'm sure they are just sitting there thinking "How come we couldn't hire Scotty Skiles??!
What did you see during the four games that suggested everything was ok? We (me and some others) around here have always criticized this dude's approach. His substitution patterns have been putrid since he got hired. His saving grace thus far has been the output of Carmelo, KP, Lance, and Afflalo. Had it not been for what these dudes have done, we would be as bad as Philly.
I know Martin and Mreinmann are going to chastise me for my statement, but this dude deserves to be criticize. How do you not try to guard a Vucecic with a player other then Lopez? How do you not see that it is counter productive to not have KP on the floor? How do you not see that Carmelo is the best point guard/play maker on the roster?
Fournier is an elusive 6'7" guard, why elect to guard him with cats that are smaller; specifically when you have a bigger/stronger/capable guard in Williams who is more then capable to produce at both ends of the floor?????
or use LT on Fournier
Or use the Barkley (and others strategy -- chuck didn't originate it) but make the hot hand play D on other end -- goes for Fournier and vucevic. You can't just stand there and continue to let them punch you in the nose.
Fisher had a bad game yesterday; everyone is entitled to once in a while. The issue is whether "he" is the guy. I don't see that "it" factor of a truly great coach.
Knicks1969 wrote:Nalod wrote:Win 4 in a row and all is ok. Lose a game and again its the coach's fault.You guys are all predictable.
This team has gone from god awful, to respectable. Many of todays top young coaches had really bad first seasons and grew into the job. It was expected. Not here with the genius hindsight crowd, they want the future now.
The other thing some of you just think there the coach struts after getting a rubdown, rubs his hands, looks at the guys warming up and thinks of a game plan. Not even considering the team of coach's and whats goes in.
I did not see the game last nite so I can't chime in, but its pretty obvious its the same cats after each loss that think some games are the knicks to win and blame must be assigned. How did Aflalo shoot? KP hitting his shots? Did Lance even miss a shot? Dwill Bone up the place?
Often its execution.
For others, I'm sure they are just sitting there thinking "How come we couldn't hire Scotty Skiles??!
What did you see during the four games that suggested everything was ok? We (me and some others) around here have always criticized this dude's approach. His substitution patterns have been putrid since he got hired. His saving grace thus far has been the output of Carmelo, KP, Lance, and Afflalo. Had it not been for what these dudes have done, we would be as bad as Philly.
I know Martin and Mreinmann are going to chastise me for my statement, but this dude deserves to be criticize. How do you not try to guard a Vucecic with a player other then Lopez? How do you not see that it is counter productive to not have KP on the floor? How do you not see that Carmelo is the best point guard/play maker on the roster?
Fournier is an elusive 6'7" guard, why elect to guard him with cats that are smaller; specifically when you have a bigger/stronger/capable guard in Williams who is more then capable to produce at both ends of the floor?????
His saving grace thus far has been the output of Carmelo, KP, Lance, and Afflalo. Had it not been for what these dudes have done, we would be as bad as Philly
You lost me when you typed this.
Its not the 4 games that "everything is ok". Its the season thus far. We are one game below .500 We are beating the bad teams in the NBA. THat says progress.
Your benchmark must be higher than mine.
Everything good, and everything bad is on the coach. Goods wins and bad wins are all in their. Game we could have won, game we should have lost. It all on the head coach to answer to.
What did I see? I saw KP fall back but outcome was desired. Saw Aflalo get more comfortable, I saw Melo getting more assists and playing good defense, and I saw RoPez start to work back in. I saw KO get fixed from DNP to effective production. I saw journeyman Lance become our glue guy. I also saw Gallo return from an awful slump.
You go on about Fish, but who you want that will run the System to the Lord of the Rings specifications and will fit with his deputy dog's Rambis and Cleamans?
What vibrating unicorn dil.do coach name do you pleasure yourself with that you think will be a bonafide super coach and what would he do differently than Fisher?
helloharv wrote:he is simply overmatched as a coach
I think you need to look at it this way. He is 14-15 this season as a coach. That record was probably optimistic for us. In every loss, there will always be things we can say the coach should have done different, but is he really overmatched if he is coaching a team to a better than expected record? We aren't a great team having a disappointing season by any means.
Nalod wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Nalod wrote:Win 4 in a row and all is ok. Lose a game and again its the coach's fault.You guys are all predictable.
This team has gone from god awful, to respectable. Many of todays top young coaches had really bad first seasons and grew into the job. It was expected. Not here with the genius hindsight crowd, they want the future now.
The other thing some of you just think there the coach struts after getting a rubdown, rubs his hands, looks at the guys warming up and thinks of a game plan. Not even considering the team of coach's and whats goes in.
I did not see the game last nite so I can't chime in, but its pretty obvious its the same cats after each loss that think some games are the knicks to win and blame must be assigned. How did Aflalo shoot? KP hitting his shots? Did Lance even miss a shot? Dwill Bone up the place?
Often its execution.
For others, I'm sure they are just sitting there thinking "How come we couldn't hire Scotty Skiles??!
What did you see during the four games that suggested everything was ok? We (me and some others) around here have always criticized this dude's approach. His substitution patterns have been putrid since he got hired. His saving grace thus far has been the output of Carmelo, KP, Lance, and Afflalo. Had it not been for what these dudes have done, we would be as bad as Philly.
I know Martin and Mreinmann are going to chastise me for my statement, but this dude deserves to be criticize. How do you not try to guard a Vucecic with a player other then Lopez? How do you not see that it is counter productive to not have KP on the floor? How do you not see that Carmelo is the best point guard/play maker on the roster?
Fournier is an elusive 6'7" guard, why elect to guard him with cats that are smaller; specifically when you have a bigger/stronger/capable guard in Williams who is more then capable to produce at both ends of the floor?????
His saving grace thus far has been the output of Carmelo, KP, Lance, and Afflalo. Had it not been for what these dudes have done, we would be as bad as Philly
You lost me when you typed this.
Its not the 4 games that "everything is ok". Its the season thus far. We are one game below .500 We are beating the bad teams in the NBA. THat says progress.
Your benchmark must be higher than mine.
Everything good, and everything bad is on the coach. Goods wins and bad wins are all in their. Game we could have won, game we should have lost. It all on the head coach to answer to.
What did I see? I saw KP fall back but outcome was desired. Saw Aflalo get more comfortable, I saw Melo getting more assists and playing good defense, and I saw RoPez start to work back in. I saw KO get fixed from DNP to effective production. I saw journeyman Lance become our glue guy. I also saw Gallo return from an awful slump.
You go on about Fish, but who you want that will run the System to the Lord of the Rings specifications and will fit with his deputy dog's Rambis and Cleamans?
What vibrating unicorn dil.do coach name do you pleasure yourself with that you think will be a bonafide super coach and what would he do differently than Fisher?
My issues with Fisher is not simply because he is a roach with no experience, it is his approach to the game that is puzzling. Yes Afflalo, Melo and KP got more comfortable, but is it Fisher that got them to that point or is it the players who took it upon themselves to learn to coexist? Fisher's sole job during games is to manage the substitution pattern; and on that front, he has failed miserably.
I take offense to guys who are satisfied with the output thus far; just because we are one game below .500 does not mean we have to be satisfied. We gave away a lot of games that we shouldn't have; it is one thing to lose because of lack of talents, but another due to the incompetence of the coach.
Phil has a solid group of guys with the right attitude and character, so fisher doesn't need to do much in that area. We may not have a jason kidd/cp3 type leader, but melo, AA, calderone,sasha, all have some leadership qualities.These guys would play hard no matter who was coaching.
The rotations are ridiculous, the substitutions are head scratchers. We win 4 straight with basically the same rotation,why the fck would you change it for the 5th game, why, why why do you change something thats working so well, and he does it time and time again, even though it has proven to be a bad decision every single time you do it.
I have watched every team in the league this season at least 3 times, not one single coach has played 11 guys in the 1st qtr, not 1. Every time he does that we lose 90% of the time, so why the hell would you continue to do that.
Go look at the rotations in our wins, and the rotation in our loses, its like super obvious of what works and what doesn't. Thats the complete frustating part about Fisher and his lame staff.
