Absolutely the defense was one of the worst defenses ever in NFL history certainly the worst Giants defense I've ever seen especially late in the year with all the injuries and that falls on Reece more than Spags and Coughlin. But as bad as the defense was we still could've finished 11-5 if not for offensive blunders and puzzling 4th quarter playing calling and cos hing decisions. Just listen to Carl Banks on the radio. How many times where we up 2 scores in the 4th and blew the game? The defense actually performed really well some games and the offense either sputtered or collapsed in the 4th. We had more forced turnovers this year than I can remember.
The offense was not as good under Mcadoo as people make it out to be. They didn't settle on a #1 running back til after week 13 when the season was over. They kept trotting Andre Williams out there for negative yardage. They inexplicably were never able to incorporate an excellent pass catching RB in Vereen into the offense. He never got going probably because he was never given a consistent role and was forced to watch Andre Williams rack up negative yardage. The only good thing is Beckham obviously and I can call successful plays for Beckham. The other positive is very much a misconception as Eli drastically cut down on his TO's but our offense the worst I've seen in years despite what the numbers say. Remove Beckham ridiculous TD's and really look at how the offense performed. The Giants offense was a well oiled machine from 2007-2012. Averaging in the high 20s points per game. This year if the Giants hit 20pts it was a lot. Even the during the soft part of the schedule they struggle of to put up points against the leagues bottom feeders. MacDoo did not do enough to deserve the job imho
This press conference is proof the Mara kids & Reece are certainly not well versed in hiring and firing and establishing a successful new identity and system. But we already knew that when they forced Macdoo on Coughlin only prolonging their problems and creating new ones. Unfortunately we don't have Wellington & Acorsi to steer this team in a new direction of success. Promoting Macdoo will cement the fact they don't know what they are doing. I'm seeing a lot of parallels between how the Yankees and the Steinbrenner kids have fun the team and this current Giants hierarchy. They don't know what they are doing. With all that said I'm grateful for all the championships the 2 teams have given us unlike some of my other local teams. It could certainly be worst if we were Jets & Mets fans. So I complain about their current statuses with that in mind
Coughlin is going to have another job tomorrow. He owned that final farewell presser!
gunsnewing wrote:Coughlin is going to have another job tomorrow. He owned that final farewell presser!
you think that he wants to coach?
mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Coughlin is going to have another job tomorrow. He owned that final farewell presser!
you think that he wants to coach?
Yes no doubt. He has the energy of a 40yr old. Giants were going to have to pry the head coaching position from him. He would've coached us for another decade if it was up to him.
Sure sounded like he used the speech to sell himself to another team and what he is about. It was impressive. It was like he was in the locker room speaking to his players day 1 of camp. Similar to how he made his mark in the in his very first presser when he came to the Giants.
Another thing. Former players like Canty mentioned throughout the year how some of the late game play calling was uncharacteristic of Coughlin. Like always going for it instead of taking the 3pts. I think Mcadoo was calling the shots on offense more than people think and Tom played the good soldier knowing that the clock was ticking and the fact he is 70 vs 38yr old Mcadoo
gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Coughlin is going to have another job tomorrow. He owned that final farewell presser!
you think that he wants to coach?
Yes no doubt. He has the energy of a 40yr old. Giants were going to have to pry the head coaching position from him. He would've coached us for another decade if it was up to him.
Sure sounded like he used the speech to sell himself to another team and what he is about. It was impressive. It was like he was in the locker room speaking to his players day 1 of camp. Similar to how he made his mark in the in his very first presser when he came to the Giants.
Another thing. Former players like Canty mentioned throughout the year how some of the late game play calling was uncharacteristic of Coughlin. Like always going for it instead of taking the 3pts. I think Mcadoo was calling the shots on offense more than people think and Tom played the good soldier knowing that the clock was ticking and the fact he is 70 vs 38yr old Mcadoo
Tom is a good guy but a bit of an overrated coach in my opinion.
mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Coughlin is going to have another job tomorrow. He owned that final farewell presser!
you think that he wants to coach?
Yes no doubt. He has the energy of a 40yr old. Giants were going to have to pry the head coaching position from him. He would've coached us for another decade if it was up to him.
Sure sounded like he used the speech to sell himself to another team and what he is about. It was impressive. It was like he was in the locker room speaking to his players day 1 of camp. Similar to how he made his mark in the in his very first presser when he came to the Giants.
Another thing. Former players like Canty mentioned throughout the year how some of the late game play calling was uncharacteristic of Coughlin. Like always going for it instead of taking the 3pts. I think Mcadoo was calling the shots on offense more than people think and Tom played the good soldier knowing that the clock was ticking and the fact he is 70 vs 38yr old Mcadoo
Tom is a good guy but a bit of an overrated coach in my opinion.
Who do you credit for those 2 Superbowls? Tom gets a good chunk of the credit. Whatever he did. It once but twice to motivate the team when the entire staff was on the firing line not once but twice is the stuff of legends. You can't possibly credit Spagnolo for the first one since Tom won again with Perry Fewell in 2012. Certainly Eli, Buress, Strahan, Osi & Tuck played played a huge part but a lot of teams have talent and don't win. Who motivated those guys to go the distance as enormous underdogs not once but twice! I put Tom at the top of the who gets the most credit list. Even more than Acorsi since he won again without Acorsi. I put Eli #2. I've seen people try to discredit Eli and say the defense carried them twice especially the 1st Super Bowl but Eli stepped up both times when it mattered most. It's so hard to win even for immortal QB's like Marino & Peyton. You don't lead your team in 2 Super Bowl game winning drives by accident. Tom gets the credit for motivating and propelling the team to greatness. Eli gets the credit for performing in the biggest game more so than any play calling or coaching decisions in the Super Bowls
Malcolm wrote:I'm not from NYC (I'm from Denver).But any coach that beats New England twice in the Super Bowl (including the undefeated regular season) . . . is a prince among men in my book.
Seems like a good guy that is going out on his own terms (he's 69 years old) . . .
That would be KING to you Denver dude. Royalty - one way or another. He is up there with Torre and Tuna.
mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:One argument is Reece built a team good enough to finish 11-5 not 6-10 if the coaching staff and QB's late game decisions improved.The other is it was a miracle Coughlin even had them in these games with how pathetic their personnel was across the board in every aspect of the game.
How I feel...
Slate should've been wiped clean 3yrs ago after missing the playoffs. Tom should've stepped down then. We would've had a fresh start and a head start for Eli and the 2nd half of his career.
Now Eli is 35 and because he is too old for a 3rd system in 3yrs the Giants will make Ben Mcadoo head coach. He will be as awful a head coach as he was with his late game offensive play calling.
Next year after missing the playoffs again and another failed season Reece will be fired and the slate will finally be wiped clean.
With that said I am grateful for the entire Tom Coughlin era. Everything you want in a coach and a man. Total class act and warrior. His name is forever enshrined in Giants history and in the the fans eyes. Same way Joe Torre is. Would love to have Tom back someday working with the team as an advisor/scout like Parcells the last few years in Miami.
good post.
Btw, coughlin probably would have been fired if he got knocked out of the first round of the 2011 season. They way under achieved that season and many seasons under him. They had miracle runs but were far from a dominant regular season team. They got hot at the right time.
Agree with both posts
If McAdoo is the next coach it will be a one and done year for him. I can't see Eli wanting a head coach with no experience. He doesn't have time for a coach to have learning curve. You want a coach that has done it and has the experience some is better than none.
Though not a Giants fan by any means, if the sight of slightly autistic Eli about burst into tears doesn't make your heart burst, then you're not human:
gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Coughlin is going to have another job tomorrow. He owned that final farewell presser!
you think that he wants to coach?
Yes no doubt. He has the energy of a 40yr old. Giants were going to have to pry the head coaching position from him. He would've coached us for another decade if it was up to him.
Sure sounded like he used the speech to sell himself to another team and what he is about. It was impressive. It was like he was in the locker room speaking to his players day 1 of camp. Similar to how he made his mark in the in his very first presser when he came to the Giants.
Another thing. Former players like Canty mentioned throughout the year how some of the late game play calling was uncharacteristic of Coughlin. Like always going for it instead of taking the 3pts. I think Mcadoo was calling the shots on offense more than people think and Tom played the good soldier knowing that the clock was ticking and the fact he is 70 vs 38yr old Mcadoo
Tom is a good guy but a bit of an overrated coach in my opinion.
Who do you credit for those 2 Superbowls? Tom gets a good chunk of the credit. Whatever he did. It once but twice to motivate the team when the entire staff was on the firing line not once but twice is the stuff of legends. You can't possibly credit Spagnolo for the first one since Tom won again with Perry Fewell in 2012. Certainly Eli, Buress, Strahan, Osi & Tuck played played a huge part but a lot of teams have talent and don't win. Who motivated those guys to go the distance as enormous underdogs not once but twice! I put Tom at the top of the who gets the most credit list. Even more than Acorsi since he won again without Acorsi. I put Eli #2. I've seen people try to discredit Eli and say the defense carried them twice especially the 1st Super Bowl but Eli stepped up both times when it mattered most. It's so hard to win even for immortal QB's like Marino & Peyton. You don't lead your team in 2 Super Bowl game winning drives by accident. Tom gets the credit for motivating and propelling the team to greatness. Eli gets the credit for performing in the biggest game more so than any play calling or coaching decisions in the Super Bowls
As big a chunk as anyone. Point blank outcoached Beledick.. twice. Eli was amazing in those games and the team made great plays. Every guy on that team was in a position to succeed.
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:I think its Chip Kelly. Giants tried to hire him out of Oregon. He instantly turned the Eagles around. Not a media darling but a very good coach. Already knows the NFC East etc... I think Phili made a big mistake letting him go after one bad season.
After the way he crashed and burned in Philly, I wouldn't want him on my team unless he was only the offensive coordinator, if that. Too divisive a figure. Look at the stats for Kelly once they started figuring out his offense.
Phili was 4-12 when he took over. Back to back 10-6 seasons before 7-9 this year. Also who was the QB during that time? Foles, Sanchez, Bradford... I have no rooting interest in Giants hiring him, but he did a pretty good job there. Also in his first NFL job.
gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:I think its Chip Kelly. Giants tried to hire him out of Oregon. He instantly turned the Eagles around. Not a media darling but a very good coach. Already knows the NFC East etc... I think Phili made a big mistake letting him go after one bad season.
I highly doubt that. Too much negative coming out of there. True or not, they will stay away.
I would stay away from college colleges period. Especially the ones who run a system that only works in college and against future cpa's and accountants. Chip is the worst possible candidate. Doubt the Giants would go there. It would be a public relation disaster. How about the all the racist allegations from his own players and how Chip can't relate to NFL players. I would think Chip wants to return to college. Help put some low key Pacific Northwest school on the map with a gimicky offense.
is that legit? I had no idea...
Just heard that Payton is staying in NO.
gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Coughlin is going to have another job tomorrow. He owned that final farewell presser!
you think that he wants to coach?
Yes no doubt. He has the energy of a 40yr old. Giants were going to have to pry the head coaching position from him. He would've coached us for another decade if it was up to him.
Sure sounded like he used the speech to sell himself to another team and what he is about. It was impressive. It was like he was in the locker room speaking to his players day 1 of camp. Similar to how he made his mark in the in his very first presser when he came to the Giants.
Another thing. Former players like Canty mentioned throughout the year how some of the late game play calling was uncharacteristic of Coughlin. Like always going for it instead of taking the 3pts. I think Mcadoo was calling the shots on offense more than people think and Tom played the good soldier knowing that the clock was ticking and the fact he is 70 vs 38yr old Mcadoo
Tom is a good guy but a bit of an overrated coach in my opinion.
Who do you credit for those 2 Superbowls? Tom gets a good chunk of the credit. Whatever he did. It once but twice to motivate the team when the entire staff was on the firing line not once but twice is the stuff of legends. You can't possibly credit Spagnolo for the first one since Tom won again with Perry Fewell in 2012. Certainly Eli, Buress, Strahan, Osi & Tuck played played a huge part but a lot of teams have talent and don't win. Who motivated those guys to go the distance as enormous underdogs not once but twice! I put Tom at the top of the who gets the most credit list. Even more than Acorsi since he won again without Acorsi. I put Eli #2. I've seen people try to discredit Eli and say the defense carried them twice especially the 1st Super Bowl but Eli stepped up both times when it mattered most. It's so hard to win even for immortal QB's like Marino & Peyton. You don't lead your team in 2 Super Bowl game winning drives by accident. Tom gets the credit for motivating and propelling the team to greatness. Eli gets the credit for performing in the biggest game more so than any play calling or coaching decisions in the Super Bowls
they were magical playoff runs and eli was plain out of his mind. Thats eli. He can go crazy.
Coughlin gets lots of credit for them as well but they pretty much underperformed in the regular seasons like they did in pretty much every season that he was here. Special teams was always a disaster. Play calling was more than questionable with him (and gilbride), its really strange with him. On one hand we love him because he is a good guy and he won us 2 miracles SB's but he also missed the playoffs most years and rarely dominated in the regular season.
mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Coughlin is going to have another job tomorrow. He owned that final farewell presser!
you think that he wants to coach?
Yes no doubt. He has the energy of a 40yr old. Giants were going to have to pry the head coaching position from him. He would've coached us for another decade if it was up to him.
Sure sounded like he used the speech to sell himself to another team and what he is about. It was impressive. It was like he was in the locker room speaking to his players day 1 of camp. Similar to how he made his mark in the in his very first presser when he came to the Giants.
Another thing. Former players like Canty mentioned throughout the year how some of the late game play calling was uncharacteristic of Coughlin. Like always going for it instead of taking the 3pts. I think Mcadoo was calling the shots on offense more than people think and Tom played the good soldier knowing that the clock was ticking and the fact he is 70 vs 38yr old Mcadoo
Tom is a good guy but a bit of an overrated coach in my opinion.
Who do you credit for those 2 Superbowls? Tom gets a good chunk of the credit. Whatever he did. It once but twice to motivate the team when the entire staff was on the firing line not once but twice is the stuff of legends. You can't possibly credit Spagnolo for the first one since Tom won again with Perry Fewell in 2012. Certainly Eli, Buress, Strahan, Osi & Tuck played played a huge part but a lot of teams have talent and don't win. Who motivated those guys to go the distance as enormous underdogs not once but twice! I put Tom at the top of the who gets the most credit list. Even more than Acorsi since he won again without Acorsi. I put Eli #2. I've seen people try to discredit Eli and say the defense carried them twice especially the 1st Super Bowl but Eli stepped up both times when it mattered most. It's so hard to win even for immortal QB's like Marino & Peyton. You don't lead your team in 2 Super Bowl game winning drives by accident. Tom gets the credit for motivating and propelling the team to greatness. Eli gets the credit for performing in the biggest game more so than any play calling or coaching decisions in the Super Bowls
they were magical playoff runs and eli was plain out of his mind. Thats eli. He can go crazy.
Coughlin gets lots of credit for them as well but they pretty much underperformed in the regular seasons like they did in pretty much every season that he was here. Special teams was always a disaster. Play calling was more than questionable with him (and gilbride), its really strange with him. On one hand we love him because he is a good guy and he won us 2 miracles SB's but he also missed the playoffs most years and rarely dominated in the regular season.
when you win against the 17-0 Pats its a miracle SB. When you beat them again a couple years later its because you are that good. We hold trophies as the ultimate measuring stick. TC won two. No coach wins SBs without insane performances from players. Its more than just Xs and Os. Its keeping a group focused, managing distractions, schemes... so many things besides just calling this play or that (who designs the plays in the first place).
fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Coughlin is going to have another job tomorrow. He owned that final farewell presser!
you think that he wants to coach?
Yes no doubt. He has the energy of a 40yr old. Giants were going to have to pry the head coaching position from him. He would've coached us for another decade if it was up to him.
Sure sounded like he used the speech to sell himself to another team and what he is about. It was impressive. It was like he was in the locker room speaking to his players day 1 of camp. Similar to how he made his mark in the in his very first presser when he came to the Giants.
Another thing. Former players like Canty mentioned throughout the year how some of the late game play calling was uncharacteristic of Coughlin. Like always going for it instead of taking the 3pts. I think Mcadoo was calling the shots on offense more than people think and Tom played the good soldier knowing that the clock was ticking and the fact he is 70 vs 38yr old Mcadoo
Tom is a good guy but a bit of an overrated coach in my opinion.
Who do you credit for those 2 Superbowls? Tom gets a good chunk of the credit. Whatever he did. It once but twice to motivate the team when the entire staff was on the firing line not once but twice is the stuff of legends. You can't possibly credit Spagnolo for the first one since Tom won again with Perry Fewell in 2012. Certainly Eli, Buress, Strahan, Osi & Tuck played played a huge part but a lot of teams have talent and don't win. Who motivated those guys to go the distance as enormous underdogs not once but twice! I put Tom at the top of the who gets the most credit list. Even more than Acorsi since he won again without Acorsi. I put Eli #2. I've seen people try to discredit Eli and say the defense carried them twice especially the 1st Super Bowl but Eli stepped up both times when it mattered most. It's so hard to win even for immortal QB's like Marino & Peyton. You don't lead your team in 2 Super Bowl game winning drives by accident. Tom gets the credit for motivating and propelling the team to greatness. Eli gets the credit for performing in the biggest game more so than any play calling or coaching decisions in the Super Bowls
they were magical playoff runs and eli was plain out of his mind. Thats eli. He can go crazy.
Coughlin gets lots of credit for them as well but they pretty much underperformed in the regular seasons like they did in pretty much every season that he was here. Special teams was always a disaster. Play calling was more than questionable with him (and gilbride), its really strange with him. On one hand we love him because he is a good guy and he won us 2 miracles SB's but he also missed the playoffs most years and rarely dominated in the regular season.
when you win against the 17-0 Pats its a miracle SB. When you beat them again a couple years later its because you are that good. We hold trophies as the ultimate measuring stick. TC won two. No coach wins SBs without insane performances from players. Its more than just Xs and Os. Its keeping a group focused, managing distractions, schemes... so many things besides just calling this play or that (who designs the plays in the first place).
who designed the superbowl run plays or all the others? cause the others were not that great.
Again, I love him just like the next guy but lets remember that he was a 17 point dog in that game and I am not sure that he was ever favored in a playoff game.
So in to playoff runs he pulls off two miracles which makes him loved forever and rightly so but most of his tenure they underachieved which is what makes this so strange.
GustavBahler wrote:Just heard that Payton is staying in NO.
Smart man and smart move by NO. I guess Mcadoodoo is going to be the man
