Knicks · lets switch gears... its not the Melo haters being wrong that is sweet (page 1)

What is sweet is that Phil was right. When he gave out that huge deal to resign Melo many assumed things were status quo, it just more Dolan and CAA running the show with Phil's power stopping when it came to making a real decision about Melo the golden mooby. Anyone who had those thoughts were 100% justified in doing so. If what you see is what you get than that sure looked like more of the same.

Phil knew different.

Phil once quoted after that he viewed Melo as a star in the league, but still had another level he could go to. What we are seeing from that player is impressive.

Phil also said trades are measured years down the line and not immediately.

No need to bring up the 40,000 Jose sucks and Tyson is killing it threads. Its funny though. Right now, today Tyson Chandler is averaging 5ppg, 7rebs and has a dismal .087 WS/48. Oh... and AFTER this year is over he's signed for another THREE years for $40mm.

On the other side of that coin... Jose Calderon. We all know, hell.. the whole league knows his limitations. Yet if you claim to follow this team you cannot deny Jose is a huge part of the heart of this team, and important guy in the locker room and oh... he's playing pretty good ball. Jose has played EVERY (yes Im yelling) game this year, averages 27 minutes a game and 1.1 turn overs. He hasn't missed a FT since puberty and honestly wants Melo or a scorer to shoot the T because those guys need the rhythm. Jose is a stop gap player until this position is upgraded internally (Grant) or via FA. In the meantime we have a guy playing well-> .117 WS/48 means exactly this: Jose is better than average NBA player. Oh... and in this sky rocketing NBA salary cap we are paying this better than average PG who inspires good things in his teammates and the locker room $7.7mm next year and he's off the cap. A little perspective + a half an NBA season and things can sure change fast.

Speaking of fast...

Derrick Williams is 24 yea? Not must older than Grant or Cleanthony. 2nd pick in his draft. He may be playing his way into a big pay raise and is that a bad thing? Getting talent is paramount. Paying it should be trivial. Maybe our big FA acquisition is Derrick Williams. He's a funny one to gauge as there is some element of failure or cast off associated with him. Certainly he did not fulfill the expectations of the team that drafted him. If he was drafted by the Knicks and we let him walk to another team for less than $5mm and he starting having games like this it would be a firestorm of threads as we can all imagine. What's his upside? What gives me such promise is I see him getting better. He's a lousy rebounder... terrible boxing out. A below average defender, but he's clearly working at both of those and the effort is there most of the time. His scoring is fantastic. So long as he's working on defense it will fly and he is. Yes he's got tunnel vision but that's not a bad thing. Especially a team that is working hard on defense. Notice how they are looking for DW. Know why? Because when you are busting it on defense its nice to hand the ball off, put your hands on your knees and watch a guy go get a bucket or end up at the line, and that's what he's doing. Going to be a very interesting story to follow but its getting better all the time. This is an important player for this team.

JR Smith. Had some pretty wild moments. Talented guy. What is the winning upside when you rely on him? Had to move on. Bron doesn't rely on him, rather JR is like a fun little science project. Maybe he can channel that talent enough nights to keep his own legs fresh. Lord knows Bron's motivation. Shump for $10mm a year. Really? Lance Thomas for $1.6mm a year. Really?

Do we see a trend developing here?
Why stop...

Langston, KP, Grant, Willy. All pieces that are trending up as prospects or NBA players. If I hear one more time that Phil somehow gets marginal credit for these adds because he wanted Trey Les Im gonna blow a phuckin gasket. These are the players we have added via draft/Dleage in his tenure. It really isn't any more complicated than that.

Then you have Fisher. Gritty PG role player extraordinaire. President of the players union at one point. Hmm... think he is well networked in those circles? I don't know what to think or say. I see some tangible good things like the development and improvement of players under him starting with Melo, DW and Lance Thomas as easy picks. I also see some things I don't understand but based on the positives they are far outweighing anything that is puzzling me. Lance. Melo. KP. DW. If you don't see the value coaching is having on these players I cant believe you are still reading this.

Lets talk about the FAs.. actually Im sick of typing. Someone else can cover it. Carrol got $15mm a year? Shump $10? Lopez $13.... ok.

Two years into this with Phil. A little hindsight on some of the early more questionable moves and wow. I think we are in pretty good hands here.

Its a little sweet......

Great post, Fish. Completely agree.

Yep it is pretty sweet to be a knick fan because for once we are ok now with a legit potential to be better later. Its been over a decade since I've been able to say that.

Right now, today Tyson Chandler is averaging 5ppg, 7rebs and has a dismal .087 WS/48. Oh... and AFTER this year is over he's signed for another THREE years for $40mm.

All i can say is Thank God he's playing somewhere else. And Phoenix is a warm weather site. Can't you see his production plummeting if he was still here

crzymdups wrote:Great post, Fish. Completely agree.

+1

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Great post, Fish. Completely agree.

+1

+2

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Great post, Fish. Completely agree.

+1

+2

+3 - excellent post. Focused and on point, not ebullient and hyped. I agree with your points and think it reflects very favorably on Phil. Sometimes we simplify the GM role as just picking players and hoping the coach gets them to gel. But Phil goes way beyond that. He has a "phil-osophy" about team dynamics and individual contributions, one which influences the players and coaches in the organization and transforms simple "picks" into parts of a whole.

good post fish.

Moonangie wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Great post, Fish. Completely agree.

+1

+2

+3 - excellent post. Focused and on point, not ebullient and hyped. I agree with your points and think it reflects very favorably on Phil. Sometimes we simplify the GM role as just picking players and hoping the coach gets them to gel. But Phil goes way beyond that. He has a "phil-osophy" about team dynamics and individual contributions, one which influences the players and coaches in the organization and transforms simple "picks" into parts of a whole.

Thanks guys for the and 1s

This is really it. We have read these things and heard of them but being a Knick fan it always feels like more of the same, but this is not. This is really changing before our eyes and the changes we are seeing as the season goes on remind us that this is really happening.

Great comment. This goes beyond scouting players and just getting better guys in here. You are starting to see real synergy and there is no better way to improve than from within, and I am really starting to feel like this is a place guys can grow and improve. I know Phil promised exactly that as part of the culture, but we (Knick fans) have been promised many things many times. This time feels real.

I had planned on creating a thread (never got around to it) on the recent Board Myths about the Knicks that are being dispelled. For instance the significant number of posts/threads related to Jackson not knowing what he is doing, being in over his head, grading out as a Failure etc......from my perspective it takes a significant amount of time for a roster overhaul, cultural and decision making changes that the Knicks needed throughout the organization. Instead of grading each move or wanting to cast off a young player like Grant after a stretch of bad games......I'm just enjoying the ride....growing pains and all.

Win or lose - this team is exciting and a must watch again for me. I attribute that to the overall vision of PJ.

fish wtf are you talking about--tfk is the greatest basketball mind the Knicks have had since Red Holzman

Why keep making threads like this? Im sorry but The so called melo hate is completely overblown. I understand that there are a few in particular that bash him but its not as many as some make it seem. Melo is playing great and even people who arent his biggest fans have given him deserved praise. However the one thing i dont like is that some are giving him credit for everything including Porzingis which isnt accurate. KP is the reason why he has been great not melo. So im honestly happy melo is getting praise but some are giving him a bit too much IMO. In regards to phil he has done a good job but gaines deserves props as well. He scouted KP and urged phil to draft him

fishmike wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Great post, Fish. Completely agree.

+1

+2

+3 - excellent post. Focused and on point, not ebullient and hyped. I agree with your points and think it reflects very favorably on Phil. Sometimes we simplify the GM role as just picking players and hoping the coach gets them to gel. But Phil goes way beyond that. He has a "phil-osophy" about team dynamics and individual contributions, one which influences the players and coaches in the organization and transforms simple "picks" into parts of a whole.

Thanks guys for the and 1s

This is really it. We have read these things and heard of them but being a Knick fan it always feels like more of the same, but this is not. This is really changing before our eyes and the changes we are seeing as the season goes on remind us that this is really happening.

Great comment. This goes beyond scouting players and just getting better guys in here. You are starting to see real synergy and there is no better way to improve than from within, and I am really starting to feel like this is a place guys can grow and improve. I know Phil promised exactly that as part of the culture, but we (Knick fans) have been promised many things many times. This time feels real.

Great post dude......our team is incomplete if you ask me; but we are trending upward. We need another combo guard and another reliable front court player. I thought Early and KO were going to be relied upon a lot more, but I am wrong. Maybe we will see a lot more of them in the second half of the season

Great thread! I have always been a supporter of Phil because i felt he brought a sense of stability and the right culture regardless of if his trades worked out, but i have to say, the job he has done with this team in the amount of time he has been here is that of a high-level veteran GM/President. Whether or not we win a title in his tenure, he is proving himself as a great basketball mind, outside of just coaching. Although the 2012-2013 team was better, this team is the most fun to watch team we have had since the 1990's and the future is very bright.

StarksEwing1 wrote:Why keep making threads like this? Im sorry but The so called melo hate is completely overblown. I understand that there are a few in particular that bash him but its not as many as some make it seem. Melo is playing great and even people who arent his biggest fans have given him deserved praise. However the one thing i dont like is that some are giving him credit for everything including Porzingis which isnt accurate. KP is the reason why he has been great not melo. So im honestly happy melo is getting praise but some are giving him a bit too much IMO. In regards to phil he has done a good job but gaines deserves props as well. He scouted KP and urged phil to draft him

Did you read anything besides the title? Why post in a thread you didnt read? I didnt praise Melo once, but telling thats really all you brought to the discussion. Closest thing I said was

What we are seeing from that player is impressive.

But thanks.

As for Melo getting credit for KP? The numbers prove KP plays considerably better when Melo is on the floor but there are a 100 other threads you can rattle that empty can in. This thread was about Phil Jackson and some perspective on his earlier moves. Thanks for reading.

crzymdups wrote:Great post, Fish. Completely agree.

+4 (or is it 5...never been very good at math )

Knicks1969... agree the team is incomplete. What is nice though is some of the spare stop gap parts are showing us their value. Jose and Lance come to mind.

Knixkik wrote:Great thread! I have always been a supporter of Phil because i felt he brought a sense of stability and the right culture regardless of if his trades worked out, but i have to say, the job he has done with this team in the amount of time he has been here is that of a high-level veteran GM/President. Whether or not we win a title in his tenure, he is proving himself as a great basketball mind, outside of just coaching. Although the 2012-2013 team was better, this team is the most fun to watch team we have had since the 1990's and the future is very bright.

And ra-ra as it seems that is the premise of this thread. Individual moves dont paint a big picture and over analyzing them has pitfalls. Hey.. Jerry West has had a couple terrible drafts, but when you stick with a plan, a philosophy and show patience the body of work speaks for itself. After a year an a half the body of work is looking better and better. Future is bright indeed.

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Why keep making threads like this? Im sorry but The so called melo hate is completely overblown. I understand that there are a few in particular that bash him but its not as many as some make it seem. Melo is playing great and even people who arent his biggest fans have given him deserved praise. However the one thing i dont like is that some are giving him credit for everything including Porzingis which isnt accurate. KP is the reason why he has been great not melo. So im honestly happy melo is getting praise but some are giving him a bit too much IMO. In regards to phil he has done a good job but gaines deserves props as well. He scouted KP and urged phil to draft him

Did you read anything besides the title? Why post in a thread you didnt read? I didnt praise Melo once, but telling thats really all you brought to the discussion. Closest thing I said was

What we are seeing from that player is impressive.

But thanks.

As for Melo getting credit for KP? The numbers prove KP plays considerably better when Melo is on the floor but there are a 100 other threads you can rattle that empty can in. This thread was about Phil Jackson and some perspective on his earlier moves. Thanks for reading.

relax fish i wasnt bashing your thread. In fact i agreed with your assesment about phil doing a good job. I just added that clarence gaines also was a big factor this past offseason

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Why keep making threads like this? Im sorry but The so called melo hate is completely overblown. I understand that there are a few in particular that bash him but its not as many as some make it seem. Melo is playing great and even people who arent his biggest fans have given him deserved praise. However the one thing i dont like is that some are giving him credit for everything including Porzingis which isnt accurate. KP is the reason why he has been great not melo. So im honestly happy melo is getting praise but some are giving him a bit too much IMO. In regards to phil he has done a good job but gaines deserves props as well. He scouted KP and urged phil to draft him

Did you read anything besides the title? Why post in a thread you didnt read? I didnt praise Melo once, but telling thats really all you brought to the discussion. Closest thing I said was

What we are seeing from that player is impressive.

But thanks.

As for Melo getting credit for KP? The numbers prove KP plays considerably better when Melo is on the floor but there are a 100 other threads you can rattle that empty can in. This thread was about Phil Jackson and some perspective on his earlier moves. Thanks for reading.

relax fish i wasnt bashing your thread. In fact i agreed with your assesment about phil doing a good job. I just added that clarence gaines also was a big factor this past offseason

thanks for just adding that. Why is Clarence Gaines here and a big factor?

I like this post Fish. Agree on all points