Knicks · Knicks have pieces that are good enough to make long playoff run ala Mets (page 2)
bernard wrote:Name 5 NBA starting 1's worse than Calderon.Use the link I gave you. More than 5.
Knickoftime wrote:bernard wrote:Calderon is among the league's worst starting 1's.No, he isn't.
BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Im not really interested in waiting 2-3 years. That being said I would like to try and move Early and bring in Christian Wood and send him to the D league. I like Wood long term as a 5-4 and will be CHEAP. I think its possible he wouldve been a top 10m pick IF he stayed in school. We dont have a defensive player in the back up 5-4 slot and Woods has more offensive upside than anyone not in our SL. Get him with Kristaps and I think he could go a long way training hard.
Now that were past the 15 roster spot--we need some pro guards. Jerian Grant does not have a game right now--maybe next year but not this year. Were going to have to give up to get and I would take the chance on the "right player" to move Grant if thats what it took(as long as the player is under 28) The Mets did this last year and went to the World Series.It appears as if they believe no d league guy will help but Im sure they also realize our back-court deficiency
So the Knicks can't secure a berth in the postseason yet?
We're straight to making a long run are we?
Well the Mets were 41-41 at the same point. Once they traded for a couple of vets and then Fullmer for Cespendes they took off. Like I said the "right" trade.
Mets had something to trade.
Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Im not really interested in waiting 2-3 years. That being said I would like to try and move Early and bring in Christian Wood and send him to the D league. I like Wood long term as a 5-4 and will be CHEAP. I think its possible he wouldve been a top 10m pick IF he stayed in school. We dont have a defensive player in the back up 5-4 slot and Woods has more offensive upside than anyone not in our SL. Get him with Kristaps and I think he could go a long way training hard.
Now that were past the 15 roster spot--we need some pro guards. Jerian Grant does not have a game right now--maybe next year but not this year. Were going to have to give up to get and I would take the chance on the "right player" to move Grant if thats what it took(as long as the player is under 28) The Mets did this last year and went to the World Series.It appears as if they believe no d league guy will help but Im sure they also realize our back-court deficiency
So the Knicks can't secure a berth in the postseason yet?
We're straight to making a long run are we?
Well the Mets were 41-41 at the same point. Once they traded for a couple of vets and then Fullmer for Cespendes they took off. Like I said the "right" trade.
Mets had something to trade.
We have trade-able stuff
BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.
Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Im not really interested in waiting 2-3 years. That being said I would like to try and move Early and bring in Christian Wood and send him to the D league. I like Wood long term as a 5-4 and will be CHEAP. I think its possible he wouldve been a top 10m pick IF he stayed in school. We dont have a defensive player in the back up 5-4 slot and Woods has more offensive upside than anyone not in our SL. Get him with Kristaps and I think he could go a long way training hard.
Now that were past the 15 roster spot--we need some pro guards. Jerian Grant does not have a game right now--maybe next year but not this year. Were going to have to give up to get and I would take the chance on the "right player" to move Grant if thats what it took(as long as the player is under 28) The Mets did this last year and went to the World Series.It appears as if they believe no d league guy will help but Im sure they also realize our back-court deficiency
So the Knicks can't secure a berth in the postseason yet?
We're straight to making a long run are we?
Well the Mets were 41-41 at the same point. Once they traded for a couple of vets and then Fullmer for Cespendes they took off. Like I said the "right" trade.
Mets had something to trade.
Mets were supposed to be a championship contending team prior to the season starting too.
Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
For all of my dislike for Jose, I will be happy with him if the following happen:
1. replace him in the starting 5 with Gallo. The triangle does not need a pure PG for it to function.
2. Play him strictly as a back up SG. Since Gallo will replace him as starter, he can just take Gallo's spot.
3. When he is on the floor, he can't hesitate to shoot the ball. He has done much better the last few games on that front.
If all of that happen, we might not need to trade anyone
fishmike wrote:bernard wrote:Wait a minute. This ranks Jose 46 among PG's. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg based on PER, which doesn't even take into account his total inability to keep anyone in front of him. Stick by my original post :)PER is still a number based on production. Jose isnt a guy who fills the stat sheet. WS/48 is a better indication.bernard wrote:Posted this before I read the win shares post. Hard to believe. Just watching the guy play "d" is painful. But the data is the data. Stand corrected.bernard wrote:Guards as a whole might be worst in the league. AA is a mid-tier starting 2; Calderon is among the league's worst starting 1's. Gallo is a mid-tier 1st guard off the bench. Everyone else we have is well below average for how much burn they get. If we could upgrade at the point, we'd be very solid and dangerous as a team. I agree.Jose has the best eFG% and TS% on the team. He's got a 4-1 TO ratio. While he has limitations he also makes heady game changing plays like that layup to go ahead the other day or the defend on Heyward resulting in the travel last night.
Jose has plenty of limitations, but this stuff about him being the worst in the league or total garbage is just that... total garbage. He's a stop gap guy for one more year, and he's playing very well. He hit a huge 3 last night as well. He also runs the offense very well. All that shouting and pointing he does isnt for show. He's a floor general.
well said, fish. this isn't a video game where you can have an all-star at every position. the pg position, moreso than anything else, is a position, where you want a guy who makes heady plays and knows how to run the team. this is exactly what calderon does. he's not the prettiest of players, but he gets the job done and is important to this team. i would love more production from our PG spot, but its far away from being a detriment to us.
Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
That's defeatist---I dont do defeatist unless its in our best interests to lose.
Briggs is not patient. I respect this but your not making accountable suggestions. I doubt we can get to serious contention so you want to trade our yoots for washed up vets and go the route we did with Ewing regarding leveraging the future for now?
BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
That's defeatist---I dont do defeatist unless its in our best interests to lose.
I don't think there's a real way to upgrade the guard corps until the summer. I think next year we can legit contend for the finals if we upgrade the PG and add some depth at the 2/3. I'd love Batum. Sounds like Conley may stay in Memphis, but you have to ask him.
If the Knicks could get Tyler Johnson and Batum this summer? I think then you have an argument they could get to the Finals. They ain't gonna beat the Warriors, but they could get out of the East, unless the Cavs make major changes.
crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
That's defeatist---I dont do defeatist unless its in our best interests to lose.
I don't think there's a real way to upgrade the guard corps until the summer. I think next year we can legit contend for the finals if we upgrade the PG and add some depth at the 2/3. I'd love Batum. Sounds like Conley may stay in Memphis, but you have to ask him.
If the Knicks could get Tyler Johnson and Batum this summer? I think then you have an argument they could get to the Finals. They ain't gonna beat the Warriors, but they could get out of the East, unless the Cavs make major changes.
I dont want to be mean but it takes a real lot to be as bad as Jerian Grant has been. He had 1-2 games this year. Its of my opinion there are SEVERAL guards in the D League alone who are better than Sasha and Jerian. They simply cannot make a shot they can drive they cant do much if anything?? I mean position 4-5 ion the guard corp--we can make an effort to improve it. We need 2 God forbid injury than even worse.
BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
That's defeatist---I dont do defeatist unless its in our best interests to lose.
You can call it what you like, it's fair and accurate.
You just don't will better players. If you could, everyone would.
BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
That's defeatist---I dont do defeatist unless its in our best interests to lose.
I don't think there's a real way to upgrade the guard corps until the summer. I think next year we can legit contend for the finals if we upgrade the PG and add some depth at the 2/3. I'd love Batum. Sounds like Conley may stay in Memphis, but you have to ask him.
If the Knicks could get Tyler Johnson and Batum this summer? I think then you have an argument they could get to the Finals. They ain't gonna beat the Warriors, but they could get out of the East, unless the Cavs make major changes.
I dont want to be mean but it takes a real lot to be as bad as Jerian Grant has been. He had 1-2 games this year. Its of my opinion there are SEVERAL guards in the D League alone who are better than Sasha and Jerian. They simply cannot make a shot they can drive they cant do much if anything?? I mean position 4-5 ion the guard corp--we can make an effort to improve it. We need 2 God forbid injury than even worse.
You're entitled to your opinion about Grant.
You're ON RECORD as being way too impatient and way too premature on Lopez, but we'll roll with this anyway.
To suggest the Knicks are a D-League player away from being a legitimate contender - that THAT is the difference between contending or not, is just not credible.
Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
That's defeatist---I dont do defeatist unless its in our best interests to lose.
I don't think there's a real way to upgrade the guard corps until the summer. I think next year we can legit contend for the finals if we upgrade the PG and add some depth at the 2/3. I'd love Batum. Sounds like Conley may stay in Memphis, but you have to ask him.
If the Knicks could get Tyler Johnson and Batum this summer? I think then you have an argument they could get to the Finals. They ain't gonna beat the Warriors, but they could get out of the East, unless the Cavs make major changes.
I dont want to be mean but it takes a real lot to be as bad as Jerian Grant has been. He had 1-2 games this year. Its of my opinion there are SEVERAL guards in the D League alone who are better than Sasha and Jerian. They simply cannot make a shot they can drive they cant do much if anything?? I mean position 4-5 ion the guard corp--we can make an effort to improve it. We need 2 God forbid injury than even worse.
You're entitled to your opinion about Grant.
You're ON RECORD as being way too impatient and way too premature on Lopez, but we'll roll with this anyway.
To suggest the Knicks are a D-League player away from being a legitimate contender - that THAT is the difference between contending or not, is just not credible.
Im not suggesting that--Im willing "in the right scenario" to bring back a pro guard under the age of 28 using Grant as trade bait. You seem to twist what other say way off. The Sixers just improved their team dramatically by trading 2 second round picks. Would you take Ish Smith right now for Jerian Grant---yep. Are there D league guards better than Jerian Grant and Sasha right now--you know there are.
BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
That's defeatist---I dont do defeatist unless its in our best interests to lose.
I don't think there's a real way to upgrade the guard corps until the summer. I think next year we can legit contend for the finals if we upgrade the PG and add some depth at the 2/3. I'd love Batum. Sounds like Conley may stay in Memphis, but you have to ask him.
If the Knicks could get Tyler Johnson and Batum this summer? I think then you have an argument they could get to the Finals. They ain't gonna beat the Warriors, but they could get out of the East, unless the Cavs make major changes.
I dont want to be mean but it takes a real lot to be as bad as Jerian Grant has been. He had 1-2 games this year. Its of my opinion there are SEVERAL guards in the D League alone who are better than Sasha and Jerian. They simply cannot make a shot they can drive they cant do much if anything?? I mean position 4-5 ion the guard corp--we can make an effort to improve it. We need 2 God forbid injury than even worse.
You're entitled to your opinion about Grant.
You're ON RECORD as being way too impatient and way too premature on Lopez, but we'll roll with this anyway.
To suggest the Knicks are a D-League player away from being a legitimate contender - that THAT is the difference between contending or not, is just not credible.
Im not suggesting that--Im willing "in the right scenario" to bring back a pro guard under the age of 28 using Grant as trade bait. You seem to twist what other say way off. The Sixers just improved their team dramatically by trading 2 second round picks. Would you take Ish Smith right now for Jerian Grant---yep. Are there D league guards better than Jerian Grant and Sasha right now--you know there are.
I don't want to trade Grant....fairly too soon for that
BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
That's defeatist---I dont do defeatist unless its in our best interests to lose.
I don't think there's a real way to upgrade the guard corps until the summer. I think next year we can legit contend for the finals if we upgrade the PG and add some depth at the 2/3. I'd love Batum. Sounds like Conley may stay in Memphis, but you have to ask him.
If the Knicks could get Tyler Johnson and Batum this summer? I think then you have an argument they could get to the Finals. They ain't gonna beat the Warriors, but they could get out of the East, unless the Cavs make major changes.
I dont want to be mean but it takes a real lot to be as bad as Jerian Grant has been. He had 1-2 games this year. Its of my opinion there are SEVERAL guards in the D League alone who are better than Sasha and Jerian. They simply cannot make a shot they can drive they cant do much if anything?? I mean position 4-5 ion the guard corp--we can make an effort to improve it. We need 2 God forbid injury than even worse.
You're entitled to your opinion about Grant.
You're ON RECORD as being way too impatient and way too premature on Lopez, but we'll roll with this anyway.
To suggest the Knicks are a D-League player away from being a legitimate contender - that THAT is the difference between contending or not, is just not credible.
Im not suggesting that--Im willing "in the right scenario" to bring back a pro guard under the age of 28 using Grant as trade bait. You seem to twist what other say way off. The Sixers just improved their team dramatically by trading 2 second round picks. Would you take Ish Smith right now for Jerian Grant---yep. Are there D league guards better than Jerian Grant and Sasha right now--you know there are.
Nope.
Smoth didn't begin to have a pulse in this league until his 4th season. During his first 3 seasons/121 games in the NBA, he was inferior to Grant.
And I don't know there are better guards in the league than Grant. Phil Jackson doesn't seem to think so either.
Either way, Knicks are not signing a D-League player and inserting them into the rotation.
BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Our guards go 3 deep--aint gonna get it done in the playoffs.Probably not, no.
That's why the other 28 teams will watch the two teams in the Finals.
Inferior talent.
That's defeatist---I dont do defeatist unless its in our best interests to lose.
I don't think there's a real way to upgrade the guard corps until the summer. I think next year we can legit contend for the finals if we upgrade the PG and add some depth at the 2/3. I'd love Batum. Sounds like Conley may stay in Memphis, but you have to ask him.
If the Knicks could get Tyler Johnson and Batum this summer? I think then you have an argument they could get to the Finals. They ain't gonna beat the Warriors, but they could get out of the East, unless the Cavs make major changes.
I dont want to be mean but it takes a real lot to be as bad as Jerian Grant has been. He had 1-2 games this year. Its of my opinion there are SEVERAL guards in the D League alone who are better than Sasha and Jerian. They simply cannot make a shot they can drive they cant do much if anything?? I mean position 4-5 ion the guard corp--we can make an effort to improve it. We need 2 God forbid injury than even worse.
Grant has been rough. I wouldn't be opposed to signing Wroten and trying him out, as I've said many many times. Wroten is a long, rangy defender. Can get to the rim, streaky shooter, but he does have streaks where his shot is ON and he can score 20-30pts.
No need to give up Grant to try to bring on Wroten.
To me, this isn't about the stats either. It's about the defense -- or lack of it. I don't like to hate on our players. I root for Calderon. He definitely has some valuable skills: Great stroke, careful with the ball, gets the offensive sets running efficiently, and plenty competitive. But he can't keep anyone in front of him and he can't defend the pick and roll. At all. He also isn't a threat off the dribble, which means he can't create for himself or others. The defensive deficiencies hurt us a lot. The offensive ones I could overlook given his assets and the way the team's put together.
I agree he's a stop gap for another year, but not that he's playing well. So if we could upgrade one position, I'd want it to be the point. And if we could do it this year instead of the off season, great by me.
nyk4ever wrote:fishmike wrote:bernard wrote:Wait a minute. This ranks Jose 46 among PG's. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg based on PER, which doesn't even take into account his total inability to keep anyone in front of him. Stick by my original post :)PER is still a number based on production. Jose isnt a guy who fills the stat sheet. WS/48 is a better indication.bernard wrote:Posted this before I read the win shares post. Hard to believe. Just watching the guy play "d" is painful. But the data is the data. Stand corrected.bernard wrote:Guards as a whole might be worst in the league. AA is a mid-tier starting 2; Calderon is among the league's worst starting 1's. Gallo is a mid-tier 1st guard off the bench. Everyone else we have is well below average for how much burn they get. If we could upgrade at the point, we'd be very solid and dangerous as a team. I agree.Jose has the best eFG% and TS% on the team. He's got a 4-1 TO ratio. While he has limitations he also makes heady game changing plays like that layup to go ahead the other day or the defend on Heyward resulting in the travel last night.
Jose has plenty of limitations, but this stuff about him being the worst in the league or total garbage is just that... total garbage. He's a stop gap guy for one more year, and he's playing very well. He hit a huge 3 last night as well. He also runs the offense very well. All that shouting and pointing he does isnt for show. He's a floor general.
well said, fish. this isn't a video game where you can have an all-star at every position. the pg position, moreso than anything else, is a position, where you want a guy who makes heady plays and knows how to run the team. this is exactly what calderon does. he's not the prettiest of players, but he gets the job done and is important to this team. i would love more production from our PG spot, but its far away from being a detriment to us.