Knicks · Let's talk about building a franchise around Porzingis for a minute (page 2)
fishmike wrote:great thing about KP is there doesnt need to be a mold. Just add talented player. A 2 way stretch 4 who protects the rim the way he does is rare. Like unicorn rare.
I agree, you can put any 2 way talent around him because he such a versatile plarey. Once he masters his post up, he'll be unstoppable
NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Porzingis...I'd gamble on that.
is this serious or your just trying to confuse me or make laugh?!?!
NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.
proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
im down with putting young talent around KP. whether you want to call that a rebuild or not. whether that means free agents or drafting. i think we're building a nice young core thats cap friendly. be wise with the money and spend it on players that complement KP. Melo is simply here to help with the transition to KP's team. i think this process will take 2-3 yrs
martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
I suppose I'm an eternal pessimist but I'm concerned with Melo's health. And if he goes down, that rosey outlook we all have fades significantly in spite of Porzingis. Yes, rebuilding does not offer any gaurantees BUT the risk is significantly stymied because we've got one major piece to the puzzle with Taps. His maturation process, which will take a couple years, gives us the leeway/time to take the necessary risks and setbacks that accompany building a sustainable contender. Now is the time we should be looking to find the Russell Westbrook to Porzingis' Kevin Durant and have them grow together. Anything short of that and I think we are traveling down the road that the Magic did with Dwight, the Cavs did with LeBron during his first tenure there and the path that the Pelicans are currently on now.
Besides, why would we be trying to win now with the Warriors and Spurs looking like locks for titles the next 3-4 seasons? We'd be reprising our role with the Bulls during the 90s. That being said, I'd prefer to take the step or two back now so that I can take a gigantic leap forward in 4-5 seasons when the league should be wide open for the taking.
fishmike wrote:great thing about KP is there doesnt need to be a mold. Just add talented player. A 2 way stretch 4 who protects the rim the way he does is rare. Like unicorn rare.
true that. we are very fortunate we had a high draft pick and for the first time in the Dolan era did something useful with it.
callmened wrote:martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
im down with putting young talent around KP. whether you want to call that a rebuild or not. whether that means free agents or drafting. i think we're building a nice young core thats cap friendly. be wise with the money and spend it on players that complement KP. Melo is simply here to help with the transition to KP's team. i think this process will take 2-3 yrs
So if you view Melo's role as being a transitionary tool, why would you dismiss the opportunity to trade him for the "young talent (that we could put) around KP" you mentioned in the beginning of your post?
NardDogNation wrote:martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
I suppose I'm an eternal pessimist but I'm concerned with Melo's health. And if he goes down, that rosey outlook we all have fades significantly in spite of Porzingis. Yes, rebuilding does not offer any gaurantees BUT the risk is significantly stymied because we've got one major piece to the puzzle with Taps. His maturation process, which will take a couple years, gives us the leeway/time to take the necessary risks and setbacks that accompany building a sustainable contender. Now is the time we should be looking to find the Russell Westbrook to Porzingis' Kevin Durant and have them grow together. Anything short of that and I think we are traveling down the road that the Magic did with Dwight, the Cavs did with LeBron during his first tenure there and the path that the Pelicans are currently on now.
Besides, why would we be trying to win now with the Warriors and Spurs looking like locks for titles the next 3-4 seasons? We'd be reprising our role with the Bulls during the 90s. That being said, I'd prefer to take the step or two back now so that I can take a gigantic leap forward in 4-5 seasons.
exactly. im down for being PATIENT especially while Curry, Lebron and the western powers are in their prime. i dont think KD will come to NYC and I dont trust Russell will be that athletically gifted in his 30s like he is now. I think the players who will be around KP when the knicks are contenders are still playing in high school to be honest. lol
NardDogNation wrote:callmened wrote:martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
im down with putting young talent around KP. whether you want to call that a rebuild or not. whether that means free agents or drafting. i think we're building a nice young core thats cap friendly. be wise with the money and spend it on players that complement KP. Melo is simply here to help with the transition to KP's team. i think this process will take 2-3 yrs
So if you view Melo's role as being a transitionary tool, why would you dismiss the opportunity to trade him for the "draft [picks(s)]" you mentioned in the beginning of your post?
uhhhh he can't be traded. Maybe he will agree to go to a handful of teams and they don't have a way to get him. I really want us to try and pull something to land Winslow from the Heat.
meloshouldgo wrote:NardDogNation wrote:callmened wrote:martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
im down with putting young talent around KP. whether you want to call that a rebuild or not. whether that means free agents or drafting. i think we're building a nice young core thats cap friendly. be wise with the money and spend it on players that complement KP. Melo is simply here to help with the transition to KP's team. i think this process will take 2-3 yrs
So if you view Melo's role as being a transitionary tool, why would you dismiss the opportunity to trade him for the "draft [picks(s)]" you mentioned in the beginning of your post?
uhhhh he can't be traded. Maybe he will agree to go to a handful of teams and they don't have a way to get him. I really want us to try and pull something to land Winslow from the Heat.
BINGO - he has a no trade clause and doesnt want to be traded. lol. so until he changes his mind, its safe to assume that he will stay here til the end of his contract
callmened wrote:NardDogNation wrote:martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
I suppose I'm an eternal pessimist but I'm concerned with Melo's health. And if he goes down, that rosey outlook we all have fades significantly in spite of Porzingis. Yes, rebuilding does not offer any gaurantees BUT the risk is significantly stymied because we've got one major piece to the puzzle with Taps. His maturation process, which will take a couple years, gives us the leeway/time to take the necessary risks and setbacks that accompany building a sustainable contender. Now is the time we should be looking to find the Russell Westbrook to Porzingis' Kevin Durant and have them grow together. Anything short of that and I think we are traveling down the road that the Magic did with Dwight, the Cavs did with LeBron during his first tenure there and the path that the Pelicans are currently on now.
Besides, why would we be trying to win now with the Warriors and Spurs looking like locks for titles the next 3-4 seasons? We'd be reprising our role with the Bulls during the 90s. That being said, I'd prefer to take the step or two back now so that I can take a gigantic leap forward in 4-5 seasons.
exactly. im down for being PATIENT especially while Curry, Lebron and the western powers are in their prime. i dont think KD will come to NYC and I dont trust Russell will be that athletically gifted in his 30s like he is now. I think the players who will be around KP when the knicks are contenders are still playing in high school to be honest. lol
If you think all of that, why hold onto a top 2-player on a contender like Melo? His skills/talent are wasted on a middling team. On the Clippers, he just might be able to cause the kinds of mismatches that makes them dynamic enough to be in the conversation with SAS amd GSW.
callmened wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:NardDogNation wrote:callmened wrote:martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
im down with putting young talent around KP. whether you want to call that a rebuild or not. whether that means free agents or drafting. i think we're building a nice young core thats cap friendly. be wise with the money and spend it on players that complement KP. Melo is simply here to help with the transition to KP's team. i think this process will take 2-3 yrs
So if you view Melo's role as being a transitionary tool, why would you dismiss the opportunity to trade him for the "draft [picks(s)]" you mentioned in the beginning of your post?
uhhhh he can't be traded. Maybe he will agree to go to a handful of teams and they don't have a way to get him. I really want us to try and pull something to land Winslow from the Heat.
BINGO - he has a no trade clause and doesnt want to be traded. lol. so until he changes his mind, its safe to assume that he will stay here til the end of his contract
How do you know he doesn't change his mind if it becomes clear that the Clippers are interested and he has the opportunity to play with his best friend, that is also at the same stage of their respective careers?
meloshouldgo wrote:NardDogNation wrote:callmened wrote:martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'd look to do a proper rebuild and see if we can find a running-mate for Porzingis for the next decade. Melo and Jae Crowder to the Clippers; Blake Griffin to the Celtics; and David Lee, a future Clippers first rounder, and the Nets' 2016 pick (via BOS) to the Knicks. Should we be able to get Ben Simmons in the draft, we'd have our guy for Przingis...I'd gamble on that.proper? Like the molasses of a rebuild the Twolves are on?
I'm betting on Phil's rebuild. Next year the Knicks will be a second round team and the year after that competing in the ECF. I don't want some nefarious 10 year hope that rookies will fuddle around until they figure it out. We got our unicorn now get us some other talent that can play.
im down with putting young talent around KP. whether you want to call that a rebuild or not. whether that means free agents or drafting. i think we're building a nice young core thats cap friendly. be wise with the money and spend it on players that complement KP. Melo is simply here to help with the transition to KP's team. i think this process will take 2-3 yrs
So if you view Melo's role as being a transitionary tool, why would you dismiss the opportunity to trade him for the "draft [picks(s)]" you mentioned in the beginning of your post?
uhhhh he can't be traded. Maybe he will agree to go to a handful of teams and they don't have a way to get him. I really want us to try and pull something to land Winslow from the Heat.
Dude, anyone can be traded. And for the record, I'm huge proponent of moving him for Winslow if at all possible. The only other possibility that has me more intrigued is if the Clippers do make Blake available, and we can successfully swing him to BOS for the Nets' pick. Just youtube Ben Simmons and see why I'd take such a huge risk on us getting the no.1 pick.
callmened wrote:i dont claim to read minds. im just not going to make any future plans based on melo wanted to be traded out of nyc. besides, by the time he might WANT to go (when he starts crying about not getting a ring before he retires), he will be fat, old, crinkly and not worth much. so according to those around Melo, he actually LIKES KP and likes mentoring him (please listen to the chris herring podcast that i posted!) - maybe it feeds his ego i dont know. but those around him say he genuinely likes the kid and is excited for his future. so i dont mind keeping melo around to help KP while his knee deteriorates and his overall play declines with age.
I do mind keeping Melo around if teams are willing to surrender worthwild assets for him. If Justise Winslow is offered, we should encourage Melo to waive his NTC. Same if anything materializes with these LAC rumors. If not, we'd be wasting a perfectly good opportunity. It's like the equivalent of busting a nut while making out with Kate Upton and being content with just that. Why settle when I could do everything in my power (legally) to bust that nut inside her. That's the kind of mindset this franchise needs.
callmened wrote:but who said teams are willing to trade their assets to an aging superstar with a bad knee with a no trade clause? lol
That script has been written and repackaged multiple times (e.g. Mitch Richmond for Chris Webber...Dale Davis for Jermaine O'Neal...Gary Payton for Ray Allen....Ray Allen for Jeff Green, etc.)
1 legit Center next to him, to help with post man defense and basket area protection.
2 all-star caliber guard/wings who pass/shoot in a balanced manner (not too passive, not too much tunnel vision)
1 three point sniper who can defend the wing very well.
Right now this team has the all-star wing in Melo. Maybe Melo can continue like this for 3-4 more years (I have some doubts he can sustain an all-star level beyond 2 more years, but maybe he can). Then you have to go out and get another guy that can pass and shoot at a high level. We have Affalo who is too one dimensional. We have Calderon who is too passive. He has the guy inside in Lopez that he needs.
Lopez/Porzingis/Melo/SG/Galloway - in my opinion could be a core group for many years to come. However to attain that shooting guard who can play at a high level who can give you defense, 15-20 points every night and also 3-5 assists - will be tough to find that player. On paper DeRozan can give you all those things. If we get that, we've got enough to work with for years assuming Porzingis keeps improving and Melo can sustain 20 points/5 assists level of play for 3-4 more years.
Lopez/Porzingis/Melo/DeRozan/Galloway. If DeRozan buys in like Melo has, that team can be a contender assuming Porzingis becomes the type of player some think he can be (20 points a night guy).