Knicks · Darren Collison--that should be our all out target right now (page 1)
BRIGGS@ 2/12/2016 10:18 AM
Sacremento needs change. Collison is probably the best PG in the NBA for cash to production. Always under rated but always over-performs. He would change the dynamic of the team by himself. His 5mm contract next year ALLOWS us to look for a Batum or a Derozan without having to beg another PG to come here for 3X the money??? Collison is just as good as Conley or BETTER!! but for 1/3 the price.
As I mentioned in a post before--Id give them Grant and whatever choice of two other players--perhaps a threeway??? but Darren Collison makes the MOST sense at our trade deadline--he would give the most bang for the buck AND he does not disrupt free agency as he is signed.
fishmike@ 2/12/2016 10:42 AM
Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.
BRIGGS@ 2/12/2016 10:58 AM
fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.
fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense
What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.
I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close. Go back to sleep
Knixkik@ 2/12/2016 10:59 AM
I completely agree. Collison would be awesome. I would love to add him and either Batum (if we clear enough money) or Bazemore in the offseason.
C Lopez PF Porzingis SF Anthony SG Batum or Bazemore PG Collison
That's how you improve right there.
BRIGGS@ 2/12/2016 11:01 AM
Here you go fish--dont believe me believe Doc Rivers
How has Collison juggled so many roles, yet remained one of the most consistently effective Clippers over the couple of months?
“I’ve been a starting point guard before, so I just play my game,” Collison said. “When I’m at the two, I’m good at scoring the ball as well, being aggressive. I’ve been shooting the ball pretty well; so, I’m just playing my game. On the defensive end, I love playing defense. So, I love playing bigger guards at times and being aggressive with them. That’s all a part of my game.”
Collison’s love of defense likely dates back to his four years at UCLA under Ben Howland. Collison, and other former Bruins including fellow Clipper Ryan Hollins, has credited Howland with preparing them to play high-level defense in the NBA.
The defensive edge, though, is also something simply engrained in Collison. He was a prep star at Etiwanda High in Rancho Cucamonga, Calif., and finished his career as one of the state’s best players. He helped the Bruins make three Final Four appearances in four seasons in Westwood. His ability to alter games defensively, then, with quick hands, an ability to pressure the ball the length of the floor and as Rivers might say just merely being a nuisance, is the same thing he is doing now.
“He’s just been good all around,” Rivers said. “But his defensive pressure has been phenomenal. It’s been game-changing at times. So, it’s been great.”
I would be on board to acquire Collison - I just don't buy that we have anything Sacramento wants. Or that Sacramento even knows what it wants.
I think they'd hold onto him in case Rondo leaves this summer as a FA. Rondo is going to be looking for a max. Probably some team will give it to him...
Why would Sacramento downgrade from Collison to Grant? They have Collison locked in on a great contract for next season. He's a capable backup and Sacramento is trying to make a playoffs push. They're deluded, but hey we're trying to make a deluded playoffs push over here, too.
BRIGGS@ 2/12/2016 11:32 AM
crzymdups wrote:I would be on board to acquire Collison - I just don't buy that we have anything Sacramento wants. Or that Sacramento even knows what it wants.
I think they'd hold onto him in case Rondo leaves this summer as a FA. Rondo is going to be looking for a max. Probably some team will give it to him...
Why would Sacramento downgrade from Collison to Grant? They have Collison locked in on a great contract for next season. He's a capable backup and Sacramento is trying to make a playoffs push. They're deluded, but hey we're trying to make a deluded playoffs push over here, too.
We have no clue what their scouting dept thinks of Grant. If we had to take back some more salary or make it into a 3 way deal--Id have to think a team with 20 wins like Sacremento will atleast come to the table and listen. If we started throwing guys like Seraphin Lance thomas and Grant out--whichever way they may go--if that could be enough to persuade them to give up their back up--you have to atleast try. Id be aggressive Id give up anyone but KP Lopez and CA for Collison-3 way 4 way etc.. Affalo D Williams-- and grant whatever it takes--we need a PG.
crzymdups@ 2/12/2016 11:34 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I would be on board to acquire Collison - I just don't buy that we have anything Sacramento wants. Or that Sacramento even knows what it wants.
I think they'd hold onto him in case Rondo leaves this summer as a FA. Rondo is going to be looking for a max. Probably some team will give it to him...
Why would Sacramento downgrade from Collison to Grant? They have Collison locked in on a great contract for next season. He's a capable backup and Sacramento is trying to make a playoffs push. They're deluded, but hey we're trying to make a deluded playoffs push over here, too.
We have no clue what their scouting dept thinks of Grant. If we had to take back some more salary or make it into a 3 way deal--Id have to think a team with 20 wins like Sacremento will atleast come to the table and listen. If we started throwing guys like Seraphin Lance thomas and Grant out--whichever way they may go--if that could be enough to persuade them to give up their back up--you have to atleast try. Id be aggressive Id give up anyone but KP Lopez and CA for Collison-3 way 4 way etc.. Affalo D Williams-- and grant whatever it takes--we need a PG.
I wonder if Sacto would want Afflalo?
Knicks1969@ 2/12/2016 11:39 AM
Collison and McLemore would do. I would even consider trading Aflalo in a scenario to make that happen.
Jose, Aflalo, and Lance????????
BRIGGS@ 2/12/2016 11:44 AM
Knicks1969 wrote:Collison and McLemore would do. I would even consider trading Aflalo in a scenario to make that happen.
Jose, Aflalo, and Lance????????
Were not getting Mclemore--thats their young guy--we need a PG and Id be aggressive--overpay so to speak if its possible. I think it would be good for us in a variety of ways if we got him with that extra years of salary guaranteed. Id have to think Grant would be gone--but thats fine. Atleast try.
fishmike@ 2/12/2016 11:52 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.
fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense
What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.
I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close. Go back to sleep
when you say better defenders in the NBA... is that like Brook Lopez is the best center in the NBA?
You are right... I have not watched him one bit this year. I liked him a lot when he stepped in for Chris Paul and had that nice breakout year. However what I remember from him is more like this:
Collison's main weakness, which we already knew of going into the season, has always been his lack of size and strength on the defensive end. For a small player, he's actually got no trouble scoring over the giants of the NBA, but defensively he's good for one thing: the aforementioned peskiness on the perimeter and in the lane. Sure, he can gamble and still recover, he gambles a bit too much
Darren Collison - He is actually my vote for worst defensive player for Dallas. Collison may seem like a decent defender just because he manages to get a good number of steals, but if you focus on his defense for stretches of games you'll see why I feel this way
The Pacers sold low on Collison, trading him to the Mavericks. Dallas initially started Collison, but he lost the role to Dominique Jones, then Derek Fisher, then Mike James after Rick Carlisle expressed frustration with Collison’s defense. By the time the 2012-13 season ended, the Mavericks didn’t even extend Collison a qualifying offer.
So Briggs... do you *really* know and watch this player? Or did you see him have one great stretch or great game and decide that's all you needed to see to anoint him your next "Im going to start a new thread everyday for this player"
Honest question.
Being pesky doesn't make up when a small guard gets destroyed in crunch time.
But don't take my word for it. Look at the actual stats... The only guy on the Kings with a WORSE defensive rating on the Kings is Marco Belinelli. So while your eyes say "great defender" the REALITY is no player (minus Marco Belinelli) has more of a negative impact on that team's D than Collison.
Now to be fair other things can impact those #s, but if you can show me a stat that shows the defense is better when DC is on the floor please do.. I cant find anything.
He's a really fast smurf. Some nights he's going to change games and cause fits. Nate Robinson did also. Most night he's just a fast smurf.
Now can I go back to bed?
Knicks1969@ 2/12/2016 11:55 AM
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.
fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense
What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.
I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close. Go back to sleep
when you say better defenders in the NBA... is that like Brook Lopez is the best center in the NBA?
You are right... I have not watched him one bit this year. I liked him a lot when he stepped in for Chris Paul and had that nice breakout year. However what I remember from him is more like this:
Collison's main weakness, which we already knew of going into the season, has always been his lack of size and strength on the defensive end. For a small player, he's actually got no trouble scoring over the giants of the NBA, but defensively he's good for one thing: the aforementioned peskiness on the perimeter and in the lane. Sure, he can gamble and still recover, he gambles a bit too much
Darren Collison - He is actually my vote for worst defensive player for Dallas. Collison may seem like a decent defender just because he manages to get a good number of steals, but if you focus on his defense for stretches of games you'll see why I feel this way
The Pacers sold low on Collison, trading him to the Mavericks. Dallas initially started Collison, but he lost the role to Dominique Jones, then Derek Fisher, then Mike James after Rick Carlisle expressed frustration with Collison’s defense. By the time the 2012-13 season ended, the Mavericks didn’t even extend Collison a qualifying offer.
So Briggs... do you *really* know and watch this player? Or did you see him have one great stretch or great game and decide that's all you needed to see to anoint him your next "Im going to start a new thread everyday for this player"
Honest question.
Being pesky doesn't make up when a small guard gets destroyed in crunch time.
But don't take my word for it. Look at the actual stats... The only guy on the Kings with a WORSE defensive rating on the Kings is Marco Belinelli. So while your eyes say "great defender" the REALITY is no player (minus Marco Belinelli) has more of a negative impact on that team's D than Collison.
Now to be fair other things can impact those #s, but if you can show me a stat that shows the defense is better when DC is on the floor please do.. I cant find anything.
He's a really fast smurf. Some nights he's going to change games and cause fits. Nate Robinson did also. Most night he's just a fast smurf.
Now can I go back to bed?
He could the much needed shot in the arm that we need, until we can get a chance to add Westbrook l::))
DJMUSIC@ 2/12/2016 11:59 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Sacremento needs change. Collison is probably the best PG in the NBA for cash to production. Always under rated but always over-performs. He would change the dynamic of the team by himself. His 5mm contract next year ALLOWS us to look for a Batum or a Derozan without having to beg another PG to come here for 3X the money??? Collison is just as good as Conley or BETTER!! but for 1/3 the price.
As I mentioned in a post before--Id give them Grant and whatever choice of two other players--perhaps a threeway??? but Darren Collison makes the MOST sense at our trade deadline--he would give the most bang for the buck AND he does not disrupt free agency as he is signed.
Well I had D.Collison in the past on some NBA Fantasy hoop leagues I do & run.
For the Knicks ?
Let me tell you about this, (first of all forget ! Grant in deal)NO
Collison been in NBA long enough to take his game to another level. Has he gone up ? since his early NBA days of course but he's one of them "STUCK" point guards whom I will not give any credit for being a game changer at the vital PG position.
If he came to Knicks cheap cheap? why not
However let me use simple example of my point, Celtics I.Thomas whom I don't care much for either has a STEALTH Year and talked about to point of making NBA Allstar team, well deservingly !
Thomas is BETTER than Collison. We would not trade chips(knicks drafts) for Thomas correct ?
Why labor about Collision he ain't the quick answer NOR quik fix
HE is a nice G/PG combo but lets not get carried away here. The Best of Darren Collision we've seen on those Good Pacer, OKC Thunder teams..
Collision need not be a priority Knicks need a 1st rate Top notch PG or project where PG skillsets are so high that will change the Knickerbocker fortunes.
Collision will NOT do that, much less I feel Collision could care less for $$ playing in NYC Not everyone can play in this town. *All just my minor DJ opinion, respectively forum...
BRIGGS@ 2/12/2016 11:59 AM
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.
fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense
What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.
I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close. Go back to sleep
when you say better defenders in the NBA... is that like Brook Lopez is the best center in the NBA?
You are right... I have not watched him one bit this year. I liked him a lot when he stepped in for Chris Paul and had that nice breakout year. However what I remember from him is more like this:
Collison's main weakness, which we already knew of going into the season, has always been his lack of size and strength on the defensive end. For a small player, he's actually got no trouble scoring over the giants of the NBA, but defensively he's good for one thing: the aforementioned peskiness on the perimeter and in the lane. Sure, he can gamble and still recover, he gambles a bit too much
Darren Collison - He is actually my vote for worst defensive player for Dallas. Collison may seem like a decent defender just because he manages to get a good number of steals, but if you focus on his defense for stretches of games you'll see why I feel this way
The Pacers sold low on Collison, trading him to the Mavericks. Dallas initially started Collison, but he lost the role to Dominique Jones, then Derek Fisher, then Mike James after Rick Carlisle expressed frustration with Collison’s defense. By the time the 2012-13 season ended, the Mavericks didn’t even extend Collison a qualifying offer.
So Briggs... do you *really* know and watch this player? Or did you see him have one great stretch or great game and decide that's all you needed to see to anoint him your next "Im going to start a new thread everyday for this player"
Honest question.
Being pesky doesn't make up when a small guard gets destroyed in crunch time.
But don't take my word for it. Look at the actual stats... The only guy on the Kings with a WORSE defensive rating on the Kings is Marco Belinelli. So while your eyes say "great defender" the REALITY is no player (minus Marco Belinelli) has more of a negative impact on that team's D than Collison.
Now to be fair other things can impact those #s, but if you can show me a stat that shows the defense is better when DC is on the floor please do.. I cant find anything.
He's a really fast smurf. Some nights he's going to change games and cause fits. Nate Robinson did also. Most night he's just a fast smurf.
Now can I go back to bed?
Hes a TREMENDOUS upgrade in almost every area of need we currently have with his team. Hes no smurf hes atleast 6 feet--comparing him to nate is probably 5 inches off.
callmened@ 2/12/2016 12:01 PM
i like collison. ive always thought collison was underrated. he's better than our current PGs. my question is whats the point? will he lead us into the playoffs? even if he does will he win a first round. at this stage in his career, collison is probably a nice back up PG. on the knicks he'd be a complete upgrade - but thats an indictment on the knicks backcourt
BRIGGS@ 2/12/2016 12:02 PM
fishmike@ 2/12/2016 12:02 PM
hey... Let me say this. Collison would be an upgrade, because we don't stop anyone on defense at the PG spot anyway. He brings some good elements and he's got a cap friendly price. Depending on what we are giving up sure... its a worth a good shot.
This stuff like "most underrated PG" and "one of the best defensive PGs in the league" strikes me as Briggs being his hyper focused tunnel vision self.
Collison was so great in his first year the Kings were willing to take a $10mm gamble on Rondo, the NBA's biggest pain in the ass. But yea... lets keep calling him things he isn't and start a new thread every day. Perspective.
DJMUSIC@ 2/12/2016 12:02 PM
DJMUSIC wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Sacremento needs change. Collison is probably the best PG in the NBA for cash to production. Always under rated but always over-performs. He would change the dynamic of the team by himself. His 5mm contract next year ALLOWS us to look for a Batum or a Derozan without having to beg another PG to come here for 3X the money??? Collison is just as good as Conley or BETTER!! but for 1/3 the price.
As I mentioned in a post before--Id give them Grant and whatever choice of two other players--perhaps a threeway??? but Darren Collison makes the MOST sense at our trade deadline--he would give the most bang for the buck AND he does not disrupt free agency as he is signed.
Well I had D.Collison in the past on some NBA Fantasy hoop leagues I do & run.
For the Knicks ?
Let me tell you about this, (first of all forget ! Grant in deal)NO
Collison been in NBA long enough to take his game to another level. Has he gone up ? since his early NBA days of course but he's one of them "STUCK" point guards whom I will not give any credit for being a game changer at the vital PG position.
If he came to Knicks cheap cheap? why not
However let me use simple example of my point, Celtics I.Thomas whom I don't care much for either has a STEALTH Year and talked about to point of making NBA Allstar team, well deservingly !
Thomas is BETTER than Collison. We would not trade chips(knicks drafts) for Thomas correct ?
Why labor about Collision he ain't the quick answer NOR quik fix
HE is a nice G/PG combo but lets not get carried away here. The Best of Darren Collision we've seen on those Good Pacer, OKC Thunder teams..
Collision need not be a priority Knicks need a 1st rate Top notch PG or project where PG skillsets are so high that will change the Knickerbocker fortunes.
Collision will NOT do that, much less I feel Collision could care less for $$ playing in NYC Not everyone can play in this town. *All just my minor DJ opinion, respectively forum...
Furthermore Collision isn't stopping, CP3, Steph, or any of the lead guards of course you need a nice PG whom defends..and pressures
fishmike@ 2/12/2016 12:04 PM
Yea Briggs... I can do that to. Is youtube where you are scouting?
newyorker4ever@ 2/12/2016 12:07 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.
fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense
What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.
I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close. Go back to sleep
Wow he's a great defender, he can shoot the 3 ball at an effective clip, he's as fast as anyone as anyone in the league and can finish at the hoop and he's a solid passer that doesn't turn the ball over and yet...........he's a career back up. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm SMDH. I like him and would love to have him but he's not what you say he is.
BRIGGS@ 2/12/2016 12:28 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.
fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense
What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.
I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close. Go back to sleep
Wow he's a great defender, he can shoot the 3 ball at an effective clip, he's as fast as anyone as anyone in the league and can finish at the hoop and he's a solid passer that doesn't turn the ball over and yet...........he's a career back up. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm SMDH. I like him and would love to have him but he's not what you say he is.
I say hes a tremendous upgrade at a fixed cost over what we have. He would change this team--a player like him can change the +- of this team AND it allows us to have a full boat going into free agency.
