Knicks · We signed Tony Wroten to 3 year contract... (page 6)

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:this guy might end up being really good. He might end up being nothing at all. Nobody can pretend to predict now, its just throwing poop at the wall and seeing what sticks. he brings size, hops and one really sick handle to the table. He's got some huge holes in his game as mentioned above. If he didnt have huge holes he would not be available for the Knicks to sign.

Except Briggs who will use this as an example of Phil's hatred of small guards, this signing means nothing. He's just a guy the Knicks want to look at. Maybe he works out. Maybe he's gone by next year.

My prediction is 12 pages.

It's going to be way less than 12.....

But I think his major hole was his injury and the type of injury, which can end a career. But at 22, he has time on his side to recover. And we probably got him at the right time, while he's motivated and mad at all the other teams who left him on the shelf. I like his ability to get to the rim and unselfish vision with his passing skills. His defense is a bonus. Seems like the perfect tall PG for Phils triangle offense. We still need a proven NBA PG as a starter, but he's a perfect backup guard to have....Especially if they want to include Grant in some trade package. They seem to be redundant.

He's def a slasher, and if you learn anything from watching DWill its that a slasher can certainly find good opportunities in this offense. However Grant can also break most anyone down off the dribble and appears clueless once he's accomplished that (impressive) feat. Time will tell... dont know anything about his personality. Considering how close to rotten his name is I have assume he brings it.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6

these are horrid numbers...

Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg

jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.

Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.

he's 22 years old. and played on some terrible teams with no structure. Maybe he can be coached. He's far from a finished product.

and is a high end athlete by NBA standards (assuming the knee returns to 100% and ACLs usually do). Forget about the Linsanity aspect, but look at him, a guy who has been passed up a couple of times but can obviously play. Not a star but a good NBA player. No reason Wroten cant be a story like that, also no reason to suggest he will be.

If he dominates summer league thats at least something to chat about. Now? Eh..

Yeah, totally agree. My post right at the same time as yours is pretty much the same thing. I'm excited. I was rooting for him to come here. I hope he's healthy enough to play some this season.

Imagine a fast break with him and DWill? Instead of a one man fastbreak, we could have two man fastbreak!

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6

these are horrid numbers...

Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg

jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.

Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.

he's 22 years old. and played on some terrible teams with no structure. Maybe he can be coached. He's far from a finished product.

and is a high end athlete by NBA standards (assuming the knee returns to 100% and ACLs usually do). Forget about the Linsanity aspect, but look at him, a guy who has been passed up a couple of times but can obviously play. Not a star but a good NBA player. No reason Wroten cant be a story like that, also no reason to suggest he will be.

If he dominates summer league thats at least something to chat about. Now? Eh..

Yeah, totally agree. My post right at the same time as yours is pretty much the same thing. I'm excited. I was rooting for him to come here. I hope he's healthy enough to play some this season.

Imagine a fast break with him and DWill? Instead of a one man fastbreak, we could have two man fastbreak!

as long as its a good contract, there is nothing to lose. Just like there was nothing to lose by giving Jimmer some PT or letting us see what Early can do. Or bringing up some other D-Leaguers and see what they have.

Or we can just watch the same train wreck every night and learn absolutely nothing.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6

these are horrid numbers...

Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg

jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.

Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.

he's 22 years old. and played on some terrible teams with no structure. Maybe he can be coached. He's far from a finished product.

and is a high end athlete by NBA standards (assuming the knee returns to 100% and ACLs usually do). Forget about the Linsanity aspect, but look at him, a guy who has been passed up a couple of times but can obviously play. Not a star but a good NBA player. No reason Wroten cant be a story like that, also no reason to suggest he will be.

If he dominates summer league thats at least something to chat about. Now? Eh..

Yeah, totally agree. My post right at the same time as yours is pretty much the same thing. I'm excited. I was rooting for him to come here. I hope he's healthy enough to play some this season.

Imagine a fast break with him and DWill? Instead of a one man fastbreak, we could have two man fastbreak!

I'm looking at him like an additional draft pick. He's that young and still has upside, which some aren't willing to accept. Just get him in the program and see if he's able to learn and improve his game. Just on his natural ability he'll create things much like DWILL.

The young guys on the roster can run the floor together and create more easy baskets. I know people have forgotten this but Phil's Bulls Ran a LOT. They weren't just a halfcourt team and the more athletes we add the more likely they'll push the pace. I'm not expecting race horse ball but even just a few more easy baskets would make a huge difference.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6

these are horrid numbers...

Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg

jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.

Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.

he's 22 years old. and played on some terrible teams with no structure. Maybe he can be coached. He's far from a finished product.

and is a high end athlete by NBA standards (assuming the knee returns to 100% and ACLs usually do). Forget about the Linsanity aspect, but look at him, a guy who has been passed up a couple of times but can obviously play. Not a star but a good NBA player. No reason Wroten cant be a story like that, also no reason to suggest he will be.

If he dominates summer league thats at least something to chat about. Now? Eh..

Yeah, totally agree. My post right at the same time as yours is pretty much the same thing. I'm excited. I was rooting for him to come here. I hope he's healthy enough to play some this season.

Imagine a fast break with him and DWill? Instead of a one man fastbreak, we could have two man fastbreak!

I'm looking at him like an additional draft pick. He's that young and still has upside, which some aren't willing to accept. Just get him in the program and see if he's able to learn and improve his game. Just on his natural ability he'll create things much like DWILL.

The young guys on the roster can run the floor together and create more easy baskets. I know people have forgotten this but Phil's Bulls Ran a LOT. They weren't just a halfcourt team and the more athletes we add the more likely they'll push the pace. I'm not expecting race horse ball but even just a few more easy baskets would make a huge difference.

I look at it as trying out any other d-leaguer and expect little. Very low expectations that he will even make our team next year. If he does, great.

I want you guys to imagine for a second Wroten and Grant playing in the backcourt together. Both are big guards; both are uber athletic; both have the ability to play good defense and get in passing lanes; both can break down a defense and get in the paint; both would push the pace leading to more fast break points and easier buckets. The only negative is that they're not good shooters yet or know the triangle well. The good news is shooting can be improved with mechanics and work. They have the potential to both become decent shooters. I like the prospects of both being really young developing in our system.

mreinman wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

mreinman wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

I like it. He plays like a left handed Jeremy Lin and Alexey Shved.

It angers me that people can see this highlight and still say this guy isn't worth it. If he did half the stuff in this highlight he still would be the best guard we've had since Feltons first stint with the Knicks

highlights are so 80's. Have not learned from things like this how not to gauge players?

I looked for a comparable video of Calderon highlights from this year. I couldn't find it.

that argument will help you ace the LSATs.

Just curious. How would you judge a players capability other than highlights? You can watch game film but that is not available to us fans. So other than these highlight films and statistics what else is there?

I would start with stats, injury history, team history, win history, how is he playing now? how did he do for his last team? Who was his last team and why did they let him go? Are they doing better or worse without him? Did he elevate the players around him? etc ...

the last thing I would check is a youtube clip.

If that is the case then you will never find players like Jeremy Lin and even Danny Green before he was with the Spurs. Danny Green was a nothing player in his first year in Cleveland. He got cut then was in the D-League before SA picked him up and flourished. Sometimes you have the eyeball test and go from there. I don't think the Knicks are in any position to be choosy on how we get players.

Here's another ex-Sixer we can go bananas over! Christian Wood! Let the games begin!

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There's nothing to lose. He can learn the offensive and defensive systems this season, so he's ready to contribute next season. He'll make our backcourt faster. I'd like to see him play a more aggressive defense. It would be huge if he improves his outside shot, but even if he doesn't, he can still help this team.

NYKBocker wrote:If that is the case then you will never find players like Jeremy Lin and even Danny Green before he was with the Spurs. Danny Green was a nothing player in his first year in Cleveland. He got cut then was in the D-League before SA picked him up and flourished. Sometimes you have the eyeball test and go from there. I don't think the Knicks are in any position to be choosy on how we get players.

Bingo. Completely agree.

Wroten is a guy who always stood out to me when I saw the Sixers the past two years. He's certainly a worth a look. I hope he gets a long look.

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I want you guys to imagine for a second Wroten and Grant playing in the backcourt together. Both are big guards; both are uber athletic; both have the ability to play good defense and get in passing lanes; both can break down a defense and get in the paint; both would push the pace leading to more fast break points and easier buckets. The only negative is that they're not good shooters yet or know the triangle well. The good news is shooting can be improved with mechanics and work. They have the potential to both become decent shooters. I like the prospects of both being really young developing in our system.

then I imagine the whole defense packing the paint and daring those two to take long shots

Grants problem is nobody respects his jumper and nobody is afraid of his jumping beating you. Wroten will see the same if he cant keep people honest.

with limited flexibility, the knicks have to think outside the box or take gambles on young players. That includes players like wroten (who im afriad might be damaged goods). Ive been following this kid since he was a jr in HS. he used to be a an even better football player until he tore his ACL (yes the same ACL) and concentrated on basketball. thats why he wasnt high in all the recruiting trails. and now he suffered the same ACL injury last yr. theres no doubt he has physical talent - well at least he did. but this is a gamble - low risk gamble - cuz his career might even be over. who knows but i wouldnt get hopes up just yet. i think it was a smart move to obtain him, rehab him and teach him the triangle (say what you want if you can learn the triangle then youre smarter off for it).

with that said, keep looking into these low risk options: Ray McCallum. Like Nixluva and finestrg - im a big fan of his

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6

these are horrid numbers...

Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg

jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.

Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.

he's 22 years old. and played on some terrible teams with no structure. Maybe he can be coached. He's far from a finished product.

and is a high end athlete by NBA standards (assuming the knee returns to 100% and ACLs usually do). Forget about the Linsanity aspect, but look at him, a guy who has been passed up a couple of times but can obviously play. Not a star but a good NBA player. No reason Wroten cant be a story like that, also no reason to suggest he will be.

If he dominates summer league thats at least something to chat about. Now? Eh..

Yeah, totally agree. My post right at the same time as yours is pretty much the same thing. I'm excited. I was rooting for him to come here. I hope he's healthy enough to play some this season.

Imagine a fast break with him and DWill? Instead of a one man fastbreak, we could have two man fastbreak!

I'm looking at him like an additional draft pick. He's that young and still has upside, which some aren't willing to accept. Just get him in the program and see if he's able to learn and improve his game. Just on his natural ability he'll create things much like DWILL.

The young guys on the roster can run the floor together and create more easy baskets. I know people have forgotten this but Phil's Bulls Ran a LOT. They weren't just a halfcourt team and the more athletes we add the more likely they'll push the pace. I'm not expecting race horse ball but even just a few more easy baskets would make a huge difference.

I look at it as trying out any other d-leaguer and expect little. Very low expectations that he will even make our team next year. If he does, great.

No problem if you want to have low expectations. It's not like he's an NBA star. He's a prospect that you at least know has been in the NBA for a little while and you have some idea of what he can do at the NBA level. Despite his flaws he's had games that show the potential he's got if he can continue to improve his game and knowledge of how to play in a team game.

Like many of our young players, he's got holes in his game. Mostly just his shooting. Good thing is that he's young and there's still a chance he can make progress. IMO what Wroten starts with is some natural abilities we need at guard. Size and length, full court speed, breakdown ability, athleticism, court vision, passing ability and confidence in his ability. That's a lot to start off with.

fishmike wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I want you guys to imagine for a second Wroten and Grant playing in the backcourt together. Both are big guards; both are uber athletic; both have the ability to play good defense and get in passing lanes; both can break down a defense and get in the paint; both would push the pace leading to more fast break points and easier buckets. The only negative is that they're not good shooters yet or know the triangle well. The good news is shooting can be improved with mechanics and work. They have the potential to both become decent shooters. I like the prospects of both being really young developing in our system.

then I imagine the whole defense packing the paint and daring those two to take long shots

Grants problem is nobody respects his jumper and nobody is afraid of his jumping beating you. Wroten will see the same if he cant keep people honest.

The tough part is finding other ways to make something happen even when you aren't the best shooter. Wroten has shown much more ability to create something out of nothing. He's at another level above Jerian and Gallo in terms of handle, quicks and athletic ability.

He is also HYPER aggressive coming off screens or if the defender turns his head even for a split second. In much the same way as DWILL can draw fouls in this offense, I can see Wroten getting to the line a lot too. He just sees the lanes and attacks them much quicker than Gallo or Jerian does so far.

fishmike wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I want you guys to imagine for a second Wroten and Grant playing in the backcourt together. Both are big guards; both are uber athletic; both have the ability to play good defense and get in passing lanes; both can break down a defense and get in the paint; both would push the pace leading to more fast break points and easier buckets. The only negative is that they're not good shooters yet or know the triangle well. The good news is shooting can be improved with mechanics and work. They have the potential to both become decent shooters. I like the prospects of both being really young developing in our system.

then I imagine the whole defense packing the paint and daring those two to take long shots

Grants problem is nobody respects his jumper and nobody is afraid of his jumping beating you. Wroten will see the same if he cant keep people honest.

Yes...but shooting can be improved with working on proper mechanics in practice and with lots of reps, coupled with confidence. Many bad shooters have become decent, respectable shooters in the NBA. What you can't teach or get better at is: A) athleticism B) Size C) breakdown ability against defenses attacking the rim D) lateral quickness to defend and long wingspan to play passing lanes. Either you have this or you don't. And it's something we currently DO NOT have, and it kills us. It's all about development.

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I want you guys to imagine for a second Wroten and Grant playing in the backcourt together. Both are big guards; both are uber athletic; both have the ability to play good defense and get in passing lanes; both can break down a defense and get in the paint; both would push the pace leading to more fast break points and easier buckets. The only negative is that they're not good shooters yet or know the triangle well. The good news is shooting can be improved with mechanics and work. They have the potential to both become decent shooters. I like the prospects of both being really young developing in our system.

then I imagine the whole defense packing the paint and daring those two to take long shots

Grants problem is nobody respects his jumper and nobody is afraid of his jumping beating you. Wroten will see the same if he cant keep people honest.

The tough part is finding other ways to make something happen even when you aren't the best shooter. Wroten has shown much more ability to create something out of nothing. He's at another level above Jerian and Gallo in terms of handle, quicks and athletic ability.

He is also HYPER aggressive coming off screens or if the defender turns his head even for a split second. In much the same way as DWILL can draw fouls in this offense, I can see Wroten getting to the line a lot too. He just sees the lanes and attacks them much quicker than Gallo or Jerian does so far.

Excellent points. This is what makes me potentially so excited about him. I just hope his injury has not diminished his athleticism. I wouldn't think so being that he's only 22 with the healing process. Bottom line is we need guards who are in attack mode, and that's what he does. It would open of the entire offense and lead to much easier shots.

i saw one single highlight of him making a jump shot ... a hideous looking fall away three.

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I want you guys to imagine for a second Wroten and Grant playing in the backcourt together. Both are big guards; both are uber athletic; both have the ability to play good defense and get in passing lanes; both can break down a defense and get in the paint; both would push the pace leading to more fast break points and easier buckets. The only negative is that they're not good shooters yet or know the triangle well. The good news is shooting can be improved with mechanics and work. They have the potential to both become decent shooters. I like the prospects of both being really young developing in our system.

then I imagine the whole defense packing the paint and daring those two to take long shots

Grants problem is nobody respects his jumper and nobody is afraid of his jumping beating you. Wroten will see the same if he cant keep people honest.

The tough part is finding other ways to make something happen even when you aren't the best shooter. Wroten has shown much more ability to create something out of nothing. He's at another level above Jerian and Gallo in terms of handle, quicks and athletic ability.

He is also HYPER aggressive coming off screens or if the defender turns his head even for a split second. In much the same way as DWILL can draw fouls in this offense, I can see Wroten getting to the line a lot too. He just sees the lanes and attacks them much quicker than Gallo or Jerian does so far.

Excellent points. This is what makes me potentially so excited about him. I just hope his injury has not diminished his athleticism. I wouldn't think so being that he's only 22 with the healing process. Bottom line is we need guards who are in attack mode, and that's what he does. It would open of the entire offense and lead to much easier shots.

Agree with both of you guys here. I'm excited about him. We'll see. Hopefully he's been shooting 1000 jumpers a day while he's been off.

anrst wrote:i saw one single highlight of him making a jump shot ... a hideous looking fall away three.

All this team does is shoot mid-range jump shots - maybe it'll be good to add a break down dribble drive guard to that mix? Knicks are dead last in drives to the rim. Wroten helps.

His shot is better than Grant's - just inconsistent. Hopefully he can work on his inconsistency. I've definitely seen a game where Wroten hit 5 threes. He won't get bottled up like Grant does - stuck in-between a drive and a shot he doesn't want to take.

We've said all year the thing Grant lacks is confidence - Wroten has that otherworldly confidence to his game. It's something I don't know if you can fake or grow. I think some dudes are just born with it. Wroten has a little edge to his game. Anyway, we'll see where it goes, but he passed my eye test multiple times the last few years. We shall see.

callmened wrote:with limited flexibility, the knicks have to think outside the box or take gambles on young players. That includes players like wroten (who im afriad might be damaged goods). Ive been following this kid since he was a jr in HS. he used to be a an even better football player until he tore his ACL (yes the same ACL) and concentrated on basketball. thats why he wasnt high in all the recruiting trails. and now he suffered the same ACL injury last yr. theres no doubt he has physical talent - well at least he did. but this is a gamble - low risk gamble - cuz his career might even be over. who knows but i wouldnt get hopes up just yet. i think it was a smart move to obtain him, rehab him and teach him the triangle (say what you want if you can learn the triangle then youre smarter off for it).

with that said, keep looking into these low risk options: Ray McCallum. Like Nixluva and finestrg - im a big fan of his

wow didn't know that, same ACL on same knee? Yikes

Welcome back, Tony Douglas.