Knicks · Knicks interested in Evan Turner in free agency. (page 2)

wow 35 wins

What would you guys think about this. If both A.Afflalo and D.Williams opt out and we don't re-sign them we would probably have enough money to sign a R.Rondo and E,Turner?? I only say Rondo because he's the point guard being talked about right now and i don't see us getting M.Conley or i'd say Conley and Turner. Rondo/Turner wouldn't be a bad back court and it would be a back court with size.

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:turner haters are also jackson haters. it's a simple equivalency test.

Agreed

I can understand the rumors about Evan. He's not a sexy name but he can play in the flow. There's a flow that is often missing from the Triangle with this team and a big part of that is the BB IQ, Passing and Dribbling ability of players on this team. When the ball doesn't move as fast as it should you miss the timing of cuts and players being open to score. AA doesn't facility the flow at all. In a system predicated on Ball and Player movement and Reading what the defense is doing you can't have "head down" "only look to score" players. You can see how they mess up the flow when you have for example AA or Seraphin not looking to move the ball.

In addition it's also a problem when your guards don't push the ball, hesitate too much and don't actually give you any penetration to the rim. These are all factors in why this team has struggled so much. Without those things then you're totally reliant on Jump shots. You can't win that way. You can win even without spectacular shooters if you can move the ball and get players into better scoring situations and if your guards recognize when to actually play aggressively and drive when they're supposed to rather than force a bad pass or give the ball to a big in a bad scoring position, which happens a lot with this team.

This is not surprising.
Guy defends pretty well (better than Afflalo), passes the ball (Afflalo doesn't) and can drive to the basket off the dribble (not really Afflalo's strength)

The major problem is 3 point shooting but I guess if you need that you go with Afflalo.

A Turner/Afflalo rotation at 2 guard is much better. Certainly you won't spend all the capspace on Turner. I'm not sure what his market value is, but lets say 8 million a year? Still should leave the Knicks with money to go after another rotation/big minute player.

The biggest moves we can make in the 2016 offseason are as follows - and are all internal based.

Primary: Coaching. I'd like Phil to step in and coach for a year or two, since everyone is killing his system, his offense and he brings immediate recognition and respect to the table. Health wise he may not be able to do it, but he has to step up here. He can't sit back and let Rambis coach out another season, Rambis has proven he is not able to get wins. If not him, then Luke Walton, who would bring some sets from Golden State to NY, and also run some Triangle. Similar to what Fisher was doing this past season (some sets from OKC and Triangle) only Luke seems so far he will turn out to be a better coach than Fisher.

Secondary: Porzingis and Grant. These two have shown major signs this year. Obviously in different settings and roles. Porzingis has the talent and ability to fill in the all-star primary shot taker role (he easily gets off 15-20 shots off and that's as a rookie). Grant has the talent to be a good defensive guard who can drive and kick or drive and dish. Give us some important minutes at a huge weakness for us, point guard.

Third: Melo. What happens here is important. Either Melo needs to come back 100 percent dedicated, and this means getting lighter, so he puts less weight on old knees, doing all the things that are important to extend his career. Be excited to be part of a playoff run vs a championship run. Because there won't be a championship run next year. Or help us get him to a good team that can give him that and us some young talent that fits in with Porzingis.

The majority of our season's results next year will be dependent on internal factors. Don't expect a major free agent move. Don't expect Phil Jackson to give Mike Conley 100 million dollar contract. I can see us go hard after Durant and a few other top free agents but those guys will likely sign with teams that can win in the immediate term. Comes back to what we can do with our coaching, how good Porzingis/Grant/other young players can be next year and what happens with Melo. The free agent moves be it Turner or whatever, will not add more than 5 wins. They'll take us from a 30 win team to a 35 win team. What'll take us to a 45 win team or better, will be a much better Porzingis/Grant, a much better coach and Melo playing a season consistently (Or being traded for 2 good young players that fit in).

Why are people using AA as a standard? He sucks and just because another player might be better than him in other areas doesn't mean they are good? Having the best below avg players isn't much to talk about. It's like when people called AA an improvement over JR/Shump, that's not saying much.

newyorker4ever wrote:What would you guys think about this. If both A.Afflalo and D.Williams opt out and we don't re-sign them we would probably have enough money to sign a R.Rondo and E,Turner?? I only say Rondo because he's the point guard being talked about right now and i don't see us getting M.Conley or i'd say Conley and Turner. Rondo/Turner wouldn't be a bad back court and it would be a back court with size.

Waste of time and money.

yellowboy90 wrote:Why are people using AA as a standard? He sucks and just because another player might be better than him in other areas doesn't mean they are good? Having the best below avg players isn't much to talk about. It's like when people called AA an improvement over JR/Shump, that's not saying much.

Seriously. He's decent as the 4th man on an ok Boston team that's going to win about 45 games. Guys like him, Brandon Jennings, Courtney Lee, etc. do absolutely nothing for us and if those are the kinds of guys we sign this Summer we should expect to have basically the same record (unless Porzingis makes some sort of leap next year).

dk7th wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:I thought he might be a good fit but he really kinda sucks

LOL was my initial thought too

you both have a lot to learn about this game. no shame in that, unless fragile egos get in the way.

evan turners advanced stats are so good, the 'king douchebag of advanced stats' traded him away from philly and his advanced stats kingdom. maybe you got turner confused with someone else?

dk7th wrote:so jackson is high on turner, a player i have been touting for months as an upgrade over afflalo? see my sig.

SHOCKING!! lol

he sucks but maybe he is perfect for you and dr phil

dk7th wrote:turner haters are also jackson haters. it's a simple equivalency test.

nobody even knows turner enough to hate him.

his advanced stats are bad, don't why you said they are good.

nyknickzingis wrote:This is not surprising.
Guy defends pretty well (better than Afflalo), passes the ball (Afflalo doesn't) and can drive to the basket off the dribble (not really Afflalo's strength)

The major problem is 3 point shooting but I guess if you need that you go with Afflalo.

A Turner/Afflalo rotation at 2 guard is much better. Certainly you won't spend all the capspace on Turner. I'm not sure what his market value is, but lets say 8 million a year? Still should leave the Knicks with money to go after another rotation/big minute player.

The biggest moves we can make in the 2016 offseason are as follows - and are all internal based.

Primary: Coaching. I'd like Phil to step in and coach for a year or two, since everyone is killing his system, his offense and he brings immediate recognition and respect to the table. Health wise he may not be able to do it, but he has to step up here. He can't sit back and let Rambis coach out another season, Rambis has proven he is not able to get wins. If not him, then Luke Walton, who would bring some sets from Golden State to NY, and also run some Triangle. Similar to what Fisher was doing this past season (some sets from OKC and Triangle) only Luke seems so far he will turn out to be a better coach than Fisher.

Secondary: Porzingis and Grant. These two have shown major signs this year. Obviously in different settings and roles. Porzingis has the talent and ability to fill in the all-star primary shot taker role (he easily gets off 15-20 shots off and that's as a rookie). Grant has the talent to be a good defensive guard who can drive and kick or drive and dish. Give us some important minutes at a huge weakness for us, point guard.

Third: Melo. What happens here is important. Either Melo needs to come back 100 percent dedicated, and this means getting lighter, so he puts less weight on old knees, doing all the things that are important to extend his career. Be excited to be part of a playoff run vs a championship run. Because there won't be a championship run next year. Or help us get him to a good team that can give him that and us some young talent that fits in with Porzingis.

The majority of our season's results next year will be dependent on internal factors. Don't expect a major free agent move. Don't expect Phil Jackson to give Mike Conley 100 million dollar contract. I can see us go hard after Durant and a few other top free agents but those guys will likely sign with teams that can win in the immediate term. Comes back to what we can do with our coaching, how good Porzingis/Grant/other young players can be next year and what happens with Melo. The free agent moves be it Turner or whatever, will not add more than 5 wins. They'll take us from a 30 win team to a 35 win team. What'll take us to a 45 win team or better, will be a much better Porzingis/Grant, a much better coach and Melo playing a season consistently (Or being traded for 2 good young players that fit in).

The only issue I have with your take is the coach. I'd prefer they go with Thibs personally. I think he will have grown as a coach and I think he'd be highly motivated and he knows the Triangle and how to blend it with other things to make it all come together. I can't see Phil passing up on such an accomplished coach that also wants to be here. It would relieve Phil of having to worry about the coaching aspect of things and he can concentrate on everything else. IMO Thibs is the most logical choice.

crzymdups wrote:I've mentioned Turner a few times. I think he could be good here.

one version of a dream guard haul: Jennings, Turner, Courtney Lee

you aint never seen courtney lee before... you just standin there like he's shooting free throws...

crzymdups wrote:I've mentioned Turner a few times. I think he could be good here.

one version of a dream guard haul: Jennings, Turner, Courtney Lee

what the fk kind of dream is that?

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I've mentioned Turner a few times. I think he could be good here.

one version of a dream guard haul: Jennings, Turner, Courtney Lee

what the fk kind of dream is that?

My dream is scary too. Tyler Johnson and Crabbe but the money will make it seem like a reverse sour patch candy, sweet then sour. It would probably take $17m to get Crabbe and a poison pill of $22m to get Johnson. Although, his contract would end the same year as Carmelo's. Plus, $11m+ average salary($5.8m, $6.1m, and $22m) fits under the cap the knicks are good. They could still go out and get players in 2017 too without it being much of a burden

ET needs ball in hand to be effective. We can't afford two players dominating the ball so much.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I've mentioned Turner a few times. I think he could be good here.

one version of a dream guard haul: Jennings, Turner, Courtney Lee

what the fk kind of dream is that?

My dream is scary too. Tyler Johnson and Crabbe but the money will make it seem like a reverse sour patch candy, sweet then sour. It would probably take $17m to get Crabbe and a poison pill of $22m to get Johnson. Although, his contract would end the same year as Carmelo's. Plus, $11m+ average salary($5.8m, $6.1m, and $22m) fits under the cap the knicks are good. They could still go out and get players in 2017 too without it being much of a burden

17 million dollars for Crabbe?

Phil disappointed me if he really eyed on Evan Turner.

I really like Evan Turner heading into his draft. I think he's going to be a lot better than he's been. All that said, I feel like this is Derrick Williams pt II.

stopstandthere wrote:Phil disappointed me if he really eyed on Evan Turner.

It feels like an Isiah move.... going after Rondo and Turner and giving them big money deals.

When Allanfan20 says stay away.... Stay away.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:turner haters are also jackson haters. it's a simple equivalency test.

nobody even knows turner enough to hate him.

his advanced stats are bad, don't why you said they are good.

Why do you think everyone just watches the Knicks? I watch the Celtics all the time on the weekends because MSG is not available in my weekend home. Evan turner has played well this year but he is the benefactor of the Cs offense and the play of 5-9 isiah Thomas who by the way has more positive impact on games than Carmelo. I don't think turner would have the same impact here because of our spacing. It's going to cost starter money to get him and he's not a good shooter so you would almost be forced to start him as a 1 guard but he's not that. I would love for any fan of turner to explain how he fits on the Knicks????

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:so jackson is high on turner, a player i have been touting for months as an upgrade over afflalo? see my sig.

SHOCKING!! lol

he sucks but maybe he is perfect for you and dr phil

mreinman... added to DK's list of people who have a lot to learn about the game.

Evan Turner would be a nice guy to pick up for 3 years and $15mm, he would be the 8th or 9th guy on the bench and be a decent bench player. He will shine in a couple spot starts. for each one of those he will have 3-4 nights where he does nothing, cant defend more athletic guys, cant shoot and is barely a warm body.

There is nothing wrong with Evan Turner except where he was drafted. He would be a great player in Europe. He's average to below average NBA talent, which is why I say he kinda sucks. He's a really good passer and a ball mover. Thus the triangle draw. But he's not a good shooter, not a good scorer.

He could be a good part.. but if this is one of the big additions its a terrible move. His impact isn't any more than Afflalo. At least AA can score in bunches and win some games. In terms of impact Turner is not an upgrade over AA. They are very different players but not high impact guys at all.