Knicks · What team traded its star player and was better after the trade (page 1)

NO Gm has traded its star player for picks and role players and then won a championship a few yrs later, They were either worse or no better then they were with him. If we had other good players on the team like a ray Allen, sprewell, Westbrook, type, then perhaps

But when you do what Denver did with melo, you end up like Denver is without melo..a team with 1 or2 OK players and a roster full of question marks, and draft picks that have little to no impact..10 yes before your relevant, your not winning sht without a super star

Knicks cannot trade Melo.
Melo can trade himself or stay in NY.
He is the master of his own destiny.
The main good thing from him leaving is liberation from false perception that this team is some player or coach away from the showtime.
It is light years away as you rightly mentioned.
It takes time to build around stars and team should start to build when their star is entering his prime not exiting it.
There is nothing wrong with Melo but it is everything wrong with timing between him and state of the Knicks.

You are absolutely right. It rarely happens. For us, having KP already on the roster is a plus, as we can trade Melo and still have a young star on the roster, but doesn't mean we will improve. Ideally, we would want to see this thing thru with developing KP as the go-to guy and have Melo as the 2nd option where he should still produce into his mid 30s. Rebuilding is incredibly difficult. The idea around here is if we trade Melo and rebuild the "right way" we will be good in no time. People use golden state as the example on how its done, even though there is only 1 golden state. Rebuilding around KP can be done, because he is a great start, but it is more likely to build a winning team with Melo on the roster than without, as history shows.

I don't know if LAC would do it, but the proposed Blake Griffin deal is probably the best we could hope for. All the other deals i've read are basically just bringing back nothing and some picks that will also likely be worth nothing much.

The toughest thing to do is build a Title Team in the NBA. It's been pretty much the same group of players that end up playing in the WCF, ECF and NBA Finals. Right now we have NBA level bigs with Melo, KP and RoLo. KP is only going to get better. Our best hope is to do a good job in Free Agency this summer and continue to develop the young players we have.

Do you realize who you are talking to? Known it all fans like this filled with knee jerk heart attacks.

Can you name a crappy basketball who's star player was in his decline that won a championship within a few years? The only one I can think of is the 06-07 Celtics that won 24 games. Of course, I'm not seeing how we're adding KG and Ray Allen level players and Pierce was 2 years younger (age 29/30 season) than Melo is this season (age 31/31 season).

VCoug wrote:Can you name a crappy basketball who's star player was in his decline that won a championship within a few years? The only one I can think of is the 06-07 Celtics that won 24 games. Of course, I'm not seeing how we're adding KG and Ray Allen level players and Pierce was 2 years younger (age 29/30 season) than Melo is this season (age 31/31 season).

We wouldn't be winning any Title because of Melo. It's gonna be about the rest of the team being good enough. Melo will always be Melo. He's a great guy to have when you have other front line Talent IMO. Similar to why Olympic Melo is so good. We need Guards that can carry the action and make Melo, KP and RoLo better. IMO it has to start in the backcourt.

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:Can you name a crappy basketball who's star player was in his decline that won a championship within a few years? The only one I can think of is the 06-07 Celtics that won 24 games. Of course, I'm not seeing how we're adding KG and Ray Allen level players and Pierce was 2 years younger (age 29/30 season) than Melo is this season (age 31/31 season).

We wouldn't be winning any Title because of Melo. It's gonna be about the rest of the team being good enough. Melo will always be Melo. He's a great guy to have when you have other front line Talent IMO. Similar to why Olympic Melo is so good. We need Guards that can carry the action and make Melo, KP and RoLo better. IMO it has to start in the backcourt.

If we're not winning a title because of Melo why are we keeping him?

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:Can you name a crappy basketball who's star player was in his decline that won a championship within a few years? The only one I can think of is the 06-07 Celtics that won 24 games. Of course, I'm not seeing how we're adding KG and Ray Allen level players and Pierce was 2 years younger (age 29/30 season) than Melo is this season (age 31/31 season).

We wouldn't be winning any Title because of Melo. It's gonna be about the rest of the team being good enough. Melo will always be Melo. He's a great guy to have when you have other front line Talent IMO. Similar to why Olympic Melo is so good. We need Guards that can carry the action and make Melo, KP and RoLo better. IMO it has to start in the backcourt.

If we're not winning a title because of Melo why are we keeping him?

because he can be part of a core for the length of his contract, and believe it or not, the system and coach is by far the worse thing going for the franchise

VCoug wrote:Can you name a crappy basketball who's star player was in his decline that won a championship within a few years? The only one I can think of is the 06-07 Celtics that won 24 games. Of course, I'm not seeing how we're adding KG and Ray Allen level players and Pierce was 2 years younger (age 29/30 season) than Melo is this season (age 31/31 season).

I would widen the search to teams that competed for a title as well(ECF/WCF included) but the search results may still come back with just the Celtics. Idk.

It would be a nice formula to follow if the knicks had the right players and coaches.

(Paul/Melo), (KG/KP),(Perk/RoLo), (Rondo/?), and (Allen/?).

So the knicks need a shooter, PG, coach, and better system.

The other problem is that Melo is not Peirce and KP is not KG. Can Melo shoot better next year after a real off-season a year removed from surgery probably but will he keep up his rebounding and passing? Can KP step up next year and be a consistent player?

knicks1248 wrote:NO Gm has traded its star player for picks and role players and then won a championship a few yrs later, They were either worse or no better then they were with him. If we had other good players on the team like a ray Allen, sprewell, Westbrook, type, then perhaps

But when you do what Denver did with melo, you end up like Denver is without melo..a team with 1 or2 OK players and a roster full of question marks, and draft picks that have little to no impact..10 yes before your relevant, your not winning sht without a super star

DINGLEBERRY

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:NO Gm has traded its star player for picks and role players and then won a championship a few yrs later, They were either worse or no better then they were with him. If we had other good players on the team like a ray Allen, sprewell, Westbrook, type, then perhaps

But when you do what Denver did with melo, you end up like Denver is without melo..a team with 1 or2 OK players and a roster full of question marks, and draft picks that have little to no impact..10 yes before your relevant, your not winning sht without a super star

DINGLEBERRY

The Knicks gave up the pick that became Gordon Hayward in that trade.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:NO Gm has traded its star player for picks and role players and then won a championship a few yrs later, They were either worse or no better then they were with him. If we had other good players on the team like a ray Allen, sprewell, Westbrook, type, then perhaps

But when you do what Denver did with melo, you end up like Denver is without melo..a team with 1 or2 OK players and a roster full of question marks, and draft picks that have little to no impact..10 yes before your relevant, your not winning sht without a super star

DINGLEBERRY

The Knicks gave up the pick that became Gordon Hayward in that trade.

and, IS he like the missing piece, or better then melo..last time I check, the jazz are a tad bit better than us.. Wilson chandler and Danilo have been off and on with injuries before and after they got traded, felton mosgov..I mean really

Here's my take on this -- gun to my head, we're not winning with Melo. I pray I'm wrong because I think he's here for the duration. I just feel the skills are eroding, he's had some injury concerns (with a possibility of more on the way), I don't like his attitude at all to be honest, he lacks true perspective & leadership skills and I question how many guys around the league really want to come play with him. Again, I'd give anything to be wrong but say I'm right--what's the better way to eventually get better: (A) bring in Rondo, Conley Jr. or Batum (3 BIG questions here: 1. do any of these guys truly want to come here or will they just use us as leverage to get a top contract? 2. Do we really want any of them at max money or close to it over the long term? and 3. do any of these three really make us that much better?), team one of them up with Melo and not win much over the next couple of years AND THEN REBUILD --OR-- try to get something for the guy now before the skills erode completely/before he finally does break down and fast-track the rebuilding process asap? I see the latter as the more favorable option fellas, sorry to say.

Finestrg wrote:Here's my take on this -- gun to my head, we're not winning with Melo. I pray I'm wrong because I think he's here for the duration. I just feel the skills are eroding, he's had some injury concerns (with a possibility of more on the way), I don't like his attitude at all to be honest, he lacks true perspective & leadership skills and I question how many guys around the league really want to come play with him. Again, I'd give anything to be wrong but say I'm right--what's the better way to eventually get better: (A) bring in Rondo, Conley Jr. or Batum (do any of these guys truly want to come here or will they just use us as leverage to get a top contract? And then do any of these 3 really make us that much better?), team one of them up with Melo and not win much over the next couple of years AND THEN REBUILD --OR-- try to get something for the guy now before the skills erode completely/before he finally does break down and fast-track the rebuilding process asap? I see the latter as the more favorable option fellas, sorry to say.

so do you like westbrooks attitude, or KD (who's been breaking down already) or rose, or griffin, bron, or jr or shump or love, or Rubio, or who the fck ever.

There's no perfect player out there, and barely any leaders out there, which explain why there is only 2 title contenders in the entire league, everybody else is super average and continue to trade, draft, trade draft, yr after year. Most NBA teams don't even have a core today.

The NBA is pure trash and 85% of the games aren't worth watching for more then a quarter or 2 at best.

Anthony davis making 30 mill this yr, and isn't close to championship level, he makes no one better around him(although he's elevated his own game) will be traded before that contract is up..

Build a core, instead of pressing the reset button every 6 months

knicks1248 wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Here's my take on this -- gun to my head, we're not winning with Melo. I pray I'm wrong because I think he's here for the duration. I just feel the skills are eroding, he's had some injury concerns (with a possibility of more on the way), I don't like his attitude at all to be honest, he lacks true perspective & leadership skills and I question how many guys around the league really want to come play with him. Again, I'd give anything to be wrong but say I'm right--what's the better way to eventually get better: (A) bring in Rondo, Conley Jr. or Batum (do any of these guys truly want to come here or will they just use us as leverage to get a top contract? And then do any of these 3 really make us that much better?), team one of them up with Melo and not win much over the next couple of years AND THEN REBUILD --OR-- try to get something for the guy now before the skills erode completely/before he finally does break down and fast-track the rebuilding process asap? I see the latter as the more favorable option fellas, sorry to say.

so do you like westbrooks attitude, or KD (who's been breaking down already) or rose, or griffin, bron, or jr or shump or love, or Rubio, or who the fck ever.

There's no perfect player out there, and barely any leaders out there, which explain why there is only 2 title contenders in the entire league, everybody else is super average and continue to trade, draft, trade draft, yr after year. Most NBA teams don't even have a core today.

The NBA is pure trash and 85% of the games aren't worth watching for more then a quarter or 2 at best.

Anthony davis making 30 mill this yr, and isn't close to championship level, he makes no one better around him(although he's elevated his own game) will be traded before that contract is up..

Build a core, instead of pressing the reset button every 6 months

I'm not interested in making a bleak situation any worse nor am I looking to delay the inevitable process of truly rebuilding the team. The core you're talking about building doesn't include Melo imo.

Finestrg wrote:Here's my take on this -- gun to my head, we're not winning with Melo. I pray I'm wrong because I think he's here for the duration. I just feel the skills are eroding, he's had some injury concerns (with a possibility of more on the way), I don't like his attitude at all to be honest, he lacks true perspective & leadership skills and I question how many guys around the league really want to come play with him. Again, I'd give anything to be wrong but say I'm right--what's the better way to eventually get better: (A) bring in Rondo, Conley Jr. or Batum (do any of these guys truly want to come here or will they just use us as leverage to get a top contract? And then do any of these 3 really make us that much better?), team one of them up with Melo and not win much over the next couple of years AND THEN REBUILD --OR-- try to get something for the guy now before the skills erode completely/before he finally does break down and fast-track the rebuilding process asap? I see the latter as the more favorable option fellas, sorry to say.

In Jan. and Feb. Melo was averaging 5 assists a game!!! IMO before Melo tripped over that ref, he was playing the best ball i've ever seen him play. Not great scoring as in the past, but rather his ability to set up his teammates and play in the flow of the offense.

I believe he can be better next year after another summer removed from the surgery. His ability to play in the flow this year could be even better with an improved roster around him. You have to at least consider this as a distinct possibility. If Phil can give Melo a couple of Guards that can score, run the offense and make things so much easier for Melo, KP and RoLo I suspect things will look completely different.

arkrud wrote:Knicks cannot trade Melo.
Melo can trade himself or stay in NY.
He is the master of his own destiny.
The main good thing from him leaving is liberation from false perception that this team is some player or coach away from the showtime.
It is light years away as you rightly mentioned.
It takes time to build around stars and team should start to build when their star is entering his prime not exiting it.
There is nothing wrong with Melo but it is everything wrong with timing between him and state of the Knicks.

The perception is the propaganda. The reality is a future that we can't see, thus we are mad.
Melo is here to sell tickets cuz NBA is an entertainment company. Winning nice, but selling tix is the game.

Only one team of 30 wins. This is gonna take a few years. Then why keep melo? "thats entertainment!!!"

Honest question though....won't a trade have a rather negative effect on KP's development...?

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:NO Gm has traded its star player for picks and role players and then won a championship a few yrs later, They were either worse or no better then they were with him. If we had other good players on the team like a ray Allen, sprewell, Westbrook, type, then perhaps

But when you do what Denver did with melo, you end up like Denver is without melo..a team with 1 or2 OK players and a roster full of question marks, and draft picks that have little to no impact..10 yes before your relevant, your not winning sht without a super star

DINGLEBERRY

The Knicks gave up the pick that became Gordon Hayward in that trade.

and, IS he like the missing piece, or better then melo..last time I check, the jazz are a tad bit better than us.. Wilson chandler and Danilo have been off and on with injuries before and after they got traded, felton mosgov..I mean really

He's talking about the Marbury trade not Melo. That Heyward ended up being the last pick we had to give up for Marbury, don't know how it ended up in Utah.

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:Knicks cannot trade Melo.
Melo can trade himself or stay in NY.
He is the master of his own destiny.
The main good thing from him leaving is liberation from false perception that this team is some player or coach away from the showtime.
It is light years away as you rightly mentioned.
It takes time to build around stars and team should start to build when their star is entering his prime not exiting it.
There is nothing wrong with Melo but it is everything wrong with timing between him and state of the Knicks.

The perception is the propaganda. The reality is a future that we can't see, thus we are mad.
Melo is here to sell tickets cuz NBA is an entertainment company. Winning nice, but selling tix is the game.

Only one team of 30 wins. This is gonna take a few years. Then why keep melo? "thats entertainment!!!"

Why is melo a star attraction , why does he sell tickets, is it because he's really good, or 98% of the basketball world doesn't see what a handful of knick fans see like chuckbuck and DK.

The people that want him traded have a personal agenda. I know this because they know that the propose trades won't make us better and sets us back 5 yrs.

Any GM trades a confirm good play for a player that they pray and hope "HE may be good", should be fired,

OUR concerns should always be towards management for the most part, they put this sht toghether..One good move 2 bad moves, thats the pattern of every GM we get.

I'll be very honest, I hated melo's game and personality before he got here, was totally against the trade. But when he became a FA, the thought of having to deal with another 10 yrs looking for a star player, or leader was very scary.

All those yrs with draft picks like frank williams, sweetney, frye, toney douglas, boneheaded trades like KVH for Tim thomas, or Francis for Ariza, or watching no big name FA even giving us a second thought.

Kp is good, but we haven't had one single draft pick in 15 yrs, that has came back better(except Lee & Nate) in his 2nd season ready to take over. He hasN'T been able to do nothing when melo's out, and if he himself gets hurt, who will we rely on if melo's not here, A BUNCH OF LOW DRAFT PICKS, AND MORE AFFALO TYPE PLAYERS, avg 82 ppg as a team

Like you folks seen this horror movie before, why would want to go the same rout..like wtf maaan