Knicks · Forget free agency--go all in for Valentine and Felder (page 2)
BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.
Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.
I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.
I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.
You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.
Jerian was considered a very smart Player when we drafted him. His struggles may not have anything to do with his lack of BB IQ. It could have a lot to do with his having to change his game to fit a different style of offense, plus his need to improve his shooting and his physical strength for the NBA level. The idea is to develop guys like Wroten, Early, Gallo, Jerian and even Thanasis. The hope is that you can coach them up over time and improve their understanding of the game.
These players you're promoting may well be the right players but how do you guarantee that we get these specific players?
There is no guarantee in anything. Can you guarantee me that we will hit gold in free agency with 25 other teams who have massive cap space? There are 22 more teams with MORE cap space. Obviously no there is no way to guarantee anything.
What I would be willing to give up??? a 2018 #1 pick with low restricted and Grant to get Valentine. A 2 and cash for a 2 to get Felder IF hes even there and Id like to get one of Derrick Jones or Bryn Forbes Im looking at 3 younger players--all guards. We need that.
You're right. There are no guarantees in Free Agency, but even less so in the draft, which is my point. All that trading to get picks isn't really a plan. We're not at the stage where we can focus that much on the draft as opposed to FA. This ain't Philly. Now if Melo waives his NTC and asks to be traded then you have a different situation. As it is if Melo is here, then I suspect Phil will try to finish his Starting Lineup with FA's that can take the team to a higher level.
I expect both AA and DWill to opt out so they can sign longer term contracts. The Knicks will have significant cap space this summer to get something done in FA. Not every team with cap space will be hunting the exact same players we will be after. In fact a lot of the teams already have guards.
nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.
Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.
I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.
I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.
You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.
Jerian was considered a very smart Player when we drafted him. His struggles may not have anything to do with his lack of BB IQ. It could have a lot to do with his having to change his game to fit a different style of offense, plus his need to improve his shooting and his physical strength for the NBA level. The idea is to develop guys like Wroten, Early, Gallo, Jerian and even Thanasis. The hope is that you can coach them up over time and improve their understanding of the game.
These players you're promoting may well be the right players but how do you guarantee that we get these specific players?
There is no guarantee in anything. Can you guarantee me that we will hit gold in free agency with 25 other teams who have massive cap space? There are 22 more teams with MORE cap space. Obviously no there is no way to guarantee anything.
What I would be willing to give up??? a 2018 #1 pick with low restricted and Grant to get Valentine. A 2 and cash for a 2 to get Felder IF hes even there and Id like to get one of Derrick Jones or Bryn Forbes Im looking at 3 younger players--all guards. We need that.
You're right. There are no guarantees in Free Agency, but even less so in the draft, which is my point. All that trading to get picks isn't really a plan. We're not at the stage where we can focus that much on the draft as opposed to FA. This ain't Philly. Now if Melo waives his NTC and asks to be traded then you have a different situation. As it is if Melo is here, then I suspect Phil will try to finish his Starting Lineup with FA's that can take the team to a higher level.I expect both AA and DWill to opt out so they can sign longer term contracts. The Knicks will have significant cap space this summer to get something done in FA. Not every team with cap space will be hunting the exact same players we will be after. In fact a lot of the teams already have guards.
If we traded a 2018 and Grant for Valentine and got Jones and Felder in the 2nd rd--we'd kill anything wed do in free agency.
i dont think its worth trading into THIS years weak draft - especially when melo has the franchise in the palm of his hands
BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.
Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.
I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.
I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.
You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.
Jerian was considered a very smart Player when we drafted him. His struggles may not have anything to do with his lack of BB IQ. It could have a lot to do with his having to change his game to fit a different style of offense, plus his need to improve his shooting and his physical strength for the NBA level. The idea is to develop guys like Wroten, Early, Gallo, Jerian and even Thanasis. The hope is that you can coach them up over time and improve their understanding of the game.
These players you're promoting may well be the right players but how do you guarantee that we get these specific players?
There is no guarantee in anything. Can you guarantee me that we will hit gold in free agency with 25 other teams who have massive cap space? There are 22 more teams with MORE cap space. Obviously no there is no way to guarantee anything.
What I would be willing to give up??? a 2018 #1 pick with low restricted and Grant to get Valentine. A 2 and cash for a 2 to get Felder IF hes even there and Id like to get one of Derrick Jones or Bryn Forbes Im looking at 3 younger players--all guards. We need that.
You're right. There are no guarantees in Free Agency, but even less so in the draft, which is my point. All that trading to get picks isn't really a plan. We're not at the stage where we can focus that much on the draft as opposed to FA. This ain't Philly. Now if Melo waives his NTC and asks to be traded then you have a different situation. As it is if Melo is here, then I suspect Phil will try to finish his Starting Lineup with FA's that can take the team to a higher level.I expect both AA and DWill to opt out so they can sign longer term contracts. The Knicks will have significant cap space this summer to get something done in FA. Not every team with cap space will be hunting the exact same players we will be after. In fact a lot of the teams already have guards.
If we traded a 2018 and Grant for Valentine and got Jones and Felder in the 2nd rd--we'd kill anything wed do in free agency.
Need I remind you that we can't guarantee that we'll actually get those players you're mentioning. Sure maybe if we got all 3 and they all panned out at the NBA level. Isn't this pretty much the same thing Philly has been doing? They're picking high in the draft. It's just not always gonna work out as you hope. Neither is FA but at least you have a shot to bring in the FA and make your pitch. You have a chance to get proven talent as opposed to only potential.
nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.
Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.
I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.
I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.
You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.
Jerian was considered a very smart Player when we drafted him. His struggles may not have anything to do with his lack of BB IQ. It could have a lot to do with his having to change his game to fit a different style of offense, plus his need to improve his shooting and his physical strength for the NBA level. The idea is to develop guys like Wroten, Early, Gallo, Jerian and even Thanasis. The hope is that you can coach them up over time and improve their understanding of the game.
These players you're promoting may well be the right players but how do you guarantee that we get these specific players?
There is no guarantee in anything. Can you guarantee me that we will hit gold in free agency with 25 other teams who have massive cap space? There are 22 more teams with MORE cap space. Obviously no there is no way to guarantee anything.
What I would be willing to give up??? a 2018 #1 pick with low restricted and Grant to get Valentine. A 2 and cash for a 2 to get Felder IF hes even there and Id like to get one of Derrick Jones or Bryn Forbes Im looking at 3 younger players--all guards. We need that.
You're right. There are no guarantees in Free Agency, but even less so in the draft, which is my point. All that trading to get picks isn't really a plan. We're not at the stage where we can focus that much on the draft as opposed to FA. This ain't Philly. Now if Melo waives his NTC and asks to be traded then you have a different situation. As it is if Melo is here, then I suspect Phil will try to finish his Starting Lineup with FA's that can take the team to a higher level.I expect both AA and DWill to opt out so they can sign longer term contracts. The Knicks will have significant cap space this summer to get something done in FA. Not every team with cap space will be hunting the exact same players we will be after. In fact a lot of the teams already have guards.
If we traded a 2018 and Grant for Valentine and got Jones and Felder in the 2nd rd--we'd kill anything wed do in free agency.
Need I remind you that we can't guarantee that we'll actually get those players you're mentioning. Sure maybe if we got all 3 and they all panned out at the NBA level. Isn't this pretty much the same thing Philly has been doing? They're picking high in the draft. It's just not always gonna work out as you hope. Neither is FA but at least you have a shot to bring in the FA and make your pitch. You have a chance to get proven talent as opposed to only potential.
It seemed to me the Knicks had a plan to get KP Grant and Will G last year and they went into the draft with no guarantee on anyone with Only 1 pick. And they executed.
We need an infusion of guard talent--badly--youre right theres no guarantee of anything --but last year we did fine and we have the assets to give it a run.
BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.
Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.
I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.
I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.
You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.
Jerian was considered a very smart Player when we drafted him. His struggles may not have anything to do with his lack of BB IQ. It could have a lot to do with his having to change his game to fit a different style of offense, plus his need to improve his shooting and his physical strength for the NBA level. The idea is to develop guys like Wroten, Early, Gallo, Jerian and even Thanasis. The hope is that you can coach them up over time and improve their understanding of the game.
These players you're promoting may well be the right players but how do you guarantee that we get these specific players?
There is no guarantee in anything. Can you guarantee me that we will hit gold in free agency with 25 other teams who have massive cap space? There are 22 more teams with MORE cap space. Obviously no there is no way to guarantee anything.
What I would be willing to give up??? a 2018 #1 pick with low restricted and Grant to get Valentine. A 2 and cash for a 2 to get Felder IF hes even there and Id like to get one of Derrick Jones or Bryn Forbes Im looking at 3 younger players--all guards. We need that.
You're right. There are no guarantees in Free Agency, but even less so in the draft, which is my point. All that trading to get picks isn't really a plan. We're not at the stage where we can focus that much on the draft as opposed to FA. This ain't Philly. Now if Melo waives his NTC and asks to be traded then you have a different situation. As it is if Melo is here, then I suspect Phil will try to finish his Starting Lineup with FA's that can take the team to a higher level.I expect both AA and DWill to opt out so they can sign longer term contracts. The Knicks will have significant cap space this summer to get something done in FA. Not every team with cap space will be hunting the exact same players we will be after. In fact a lot of the teams already have guards.
If we traded a 2018 and Grant for Valentine and got Jones and Felder in the 2nd rd--we'd kill anything wed do in free agency.
Need I remind you that we can't guarantee that we'll actually get those players you're mentioning. Sure maybe if we got all 3 and they all panned out at the NBA level. Isn't this pretty much the same thing Philly has been doing? They're picking high in the draft. It's just not always gonna work out as you hope. Neither is FA but at least you have a shot to bring in the FA and make your pitch. You have a chance to get proven talent as opposed to only potential.It seemed to me the Knicks had a plan to get KP Grant and Will G last year and they went into the draft with no guarantee on anyone with Only 1 pick. And they executed.
We need an infusion of guard talent--badly--youre right theres no guarantee of anything --but last year we did fine and we have the assets to give it a run.
Last year was great in terms of being able to execute the plan. Having a #4 did increase the chances quite a bit to start. I doubt Phil is ready to give up on Jerian so soon, so trading him seems unlikely. The idea of the players you're targeting is fine. I'm just not too high on the notion of doing what it takes to try and make that happen. We don't need to go to such an extreme of trading a future pick and player to some fictional team. I mean exactly who is the partner in this deal you're imagining? Who's gonna be so hot on Jerian and our future 2018? I just don't see this as a plan A for this summer.
nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.
Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.
I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.
I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.
You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.
Jerian was considered a very smart Player when we drafted him. His struggles may not have anything to do with his lack of BB IQ. It could have a lot to do with his having to change his game to fit a different style of offense, plus his need to improve his shooting and his physical strength for the NBA level. The idea is to develop guys like Wroten, Early, Gallo, Jerian and even Thanasis. The hope is that you can coach them up over time and improve their understanding of the game.
These players you're promoting may well be the right players but how do you guarantee that we get these specific players?
There is no guarantee in anything. Can you guarantee me that we will hit gold in free agency with 25 other teams who have massive cap space? There are 22 more teams with MORE cap space. Obviously no there is no way to guarantee anything.
What I would be willing to give up??? a 2018 #1 pick with low restricted and Grant to get Valentine. A 2 and cash for a 2 to get Felder IF hes even there and Id like to get one of Derrick Jones or Bryn Forbes Im looking at 3 younger players--all guards. We need that.
You're right. There are no guarantees in Free Agency, but even less so in the draft, which is my point. All that trading to get picks isn't really a plan. We're not at the stage where we can focus that much on the draft as opposed to FA. This ain't Philly. Now if Melo waives his NTC and asks to be traded then you have a different situation. As it is if Melo is here, then I suspect Phil will try to finish his Starting Lineup with FA's that can take the team to a higher level.I expect both AA and DWill to opt out so they can sign longer term contracts. The Knicks will have significant cap space this summer to get something done in FA. Not every team with cap space will be hunting the exact same players we will be after. In fact a lot of the teams already have guards.
If we traded a 2018 and Grant for Valentine and got Jones and Felder in the 2nd rd--we'd kill anything wed do in free agency.
Need I remind you that we can't guarantee that we'll actually get those players you're mentioning. Sure maybe if we got all 3 and they all panned out at the NBA level. Isn't this pretty much the same thing Philly has been doing? They're picking high in the draft. It's just not always gonna work out as you hope. Neither is FA but at least you have a shot to bring in the FA and make your pitch. You have a chance to get proven talent as opposed to only potential.It seemed to me the Knicks had a plan to get KP Grant and Will G last year and they went into the draft with no guarantee on anyone with Only 1 pick. And they executed.
We need an infusion of guard talent--badly--youre right theres no guarantee of anything --but last year we did fine and we have the assets to give it a run.
Last year was great in terms of being able to execute the plan. Having a #4 did increase the chances quite a bit to start. I doubt Phil is ready to give up on Jerian so soon, so trading him seems unlikely. The idea of the players you're targeting is fine. I'm just not too high on the notion of doing what it takes to try and make that happen. We don't need to go to such an extreme of trading a future pick and player to some fictional team. I mean exactly who is the partner in this deal you're imagining? Who's gonna be so hot on Jerian and our future 2018? I just don't see this as a plan A for this summer.
It doesnt make sense to trade a pick from one draft into another--its done all the time? Id give up Grant if it got me Valentine--who is FAR superior to
Grant hands down. I dont have to think about that one for one second. Im pretty high on both Felder and Jones. I think Felder could help us right now and Jones could play the year at Westchester
They're unlikely to be better than 15th overall pick. That's useless to Knicks in next 3-4 years.
Malcolm wrote:Can we PLEASE stop all this nonsense of categorically keeping future #1 draft picks (?)They're unlikely to be better than 15th overall pick. That's useless to Knicks in next 3-4 years.
So what are you suggesting the team does with the picks they have after this year?
Malcolm wrote:Can we PLEASE stop all this nonsense of categorically keeping future #1 draft picks (?)They're unlikely to be better than 15th overall pick. That's useless to Knicks in next 3-4 years.
That's been the Knicks mentality for the past 15 years and it's been a disaster every time.
I like Valebtine but I do have some concern about his lack of explosiveness which is well documented and what often separates starters from bench at the NBA level. He can shoot though and he's certainly worth trading up to given that we've no starting guard presently in NY and that is indeed a pathetic state of affairs.
BRIGGS wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:I would love a playmaker PG, but in the triangle we could use more of a shooter, unfortunately.Valentine is the best 3 point shooter even when compared to pro PG free agents. Felder would be an incredible back up PG who over time may be able to play with Valentine in a guard set
I'm all game but unless we trade Melo, we are probably not going to get a 1st round pick unless someone sells us one. We can hope.
Sangfroid wrote:Prepare to welcome Willy H-G and a 2nd rounder to the fold next season. It's doubtful that Phil gives up a future 1st rounder. He refused to do so to get the team back court help at the trade deadline. He will stay the course. Keep your fingers crossed for an AA opt out.
Well said. That's exactly what I'm picturing if I had to bet on it: Willy comes over (would be ecstatic if we eventually got something close to Luis Scola/Enes Kanter here), a 2nd rounder we can acquire somehow (I'm definitely down for Kay Felder. Also Yogi Ferrell? Marcus Paige maybe?), and hopefully AA opts out to open up some more money in FA.
Would I love more? You bet. Not sure we can realistically swing anything more than that, though.
Finestrg wrote:Sangfroid wrote:Prepare to welcome Willy H-G and a 2nd rounder to the fold next season. It's doubtful that Phil gives up a future 1st rounder. He refused to do so to get the team back court help at the trade deadline. He will stay the course. Keep your fingers crossed for an AA opt out.Well said. That's exactly what I'm picturing if I had to bet on it: Willy comes over (would be ecstatic if we eventually got something close to Luis Scola/Enes Kanter here), a 2nd rounder we can acquire somehow (I'm definitely down for Kay Felder. Also Yogi Ferrell? Marcus Paige maybe?), and hopefully AA opts out to open up some more money in FA.
Would I love more? You bet. Not sure we can realistically swing anything more than that, though.
I agree. Also, I wouldn't mind seeing what the market is for OQuinn and filling out the roster with league minimum deals for Bachynski and Thanasis.
HofstraBBall wrote:Seems like a lot of work for a guy that can't play D?
When i thought of the strategy of the four guards after 15 Valentine Felder Jonbes Forbes--each player had a skill or multiple skills that the other did not. The most explosive player in this draft--one who compares strongly to Demar Derozan after his 1 year at UCLA--Derrick Jones has all the tools to be an elite defender. Denzell Valentine--I mean what can you say--he took a good(not great) club to 29-5 in a tough conference and avg near triple double and shot 45% from 3. Kay Felder is one of the most under rated players in CBB if he was 2-3 inches taller wed be talking top 3 pick. and lastly Forbes a 3 point shooter type--role player but a high ly talented one--the best in CBB.
Its VERY hard to get just one player who just has every skill. I tried to model everything after GS--they have guards who do different things one can drive two can shoot one can playmaker one is a great defender--and that is my strategy. We already have the bigs--I think a lot of these free agents will be Aaron Affalo redux. I mean can you tell me just 1 1 player who has Derrick Jones athletic ability? One player who has the combo skills of Kay Felder and Denzel Valentine? Just like KP--some of these guys can make an impact right now