Knicks · Mike Conley should absolutely 100% be this team's priority this summer (page 2)
crzymdups wrote:Vmart wrote:crzymdups wrote:Vmart wrote:
Your not his agent are you? I think your wasting money on Conley this team needs an elite she to make things work not PG the pG in the triangle is nothing but defense and facilitating the triangle with the ability to hit occasional threes.If you don't understand how Conley might be the most perfect guard for this team and the Triangle, that's ok.
Phil and Rambis have talked about how the team lacks penetration. Conley is one of the best facilitating PGs in the game. He's one of the best defensive PGs in the game. He runs a similar post offense in Memphis to perfection and knows how to counter when the post is overplayed.
I think he'd be perfect here. But to each their own.
The penetrating guard has always been the Shooting Guard in the triangle. Phil is already on record that they don't need an elite or great pg.
Well, I hope Phil takes some time off from being right to watch an NBA game circa 2016 and realizes how wrong he is.
He's been building the team towards functioning in the Triangle and so it makes no sense to go against that all of a sudden. Vmart is right about the SG spot being the position that you need to put a very talented Guard. It's always been SG and SF where the talent has been in the triangle aside from the bigs. The PG spot isn't really the main focus of the offense. Not that having a great PG would be a problem, just in terms of investment that's not where you would expect to spend the most money.
There's no doubt that a healthy Conley is a massive upgrade, but at what cost and risk? I suspect Phil will spend more money at the SG spot.
Vmart wrote:crzymdups wrote:No guarantee he signs here, but he is exactly the PG this team needs.I believe if we signed him and a solid SG like Courtney Lee, and maybe David Lee as a backup big, we could win 50 games next season. I'm 100% serious.
The 7 ways to understand Mike Conley's brilliance
click the link for some videos and gifs, but I'm pasting the seven points
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/23/847473...
1. Mike Conley locks down.Point guard defense is easily misunderstood, yet vitally important. There's a school of thought that point guard defense doesn't matter because nobody can play it in this anti-handcheck era. Mike Conley singlehandily proves that wrong.
Just ask Damian Lillard. The Blazers' point guard was a playoff hero last year, carving up the acclaimed Patrick Beverley and eventually sinking Houston's hopes with one memorable buzzer beater. He's being eaten alive by Conley in this series.
When Lillard rubs off a high screen, Conley is there. When Lillard loops around to step into his patented 27-foot bomb, Conley is there. When Lillard pushes forward in an attempt to attack the tin, Conley is there. It's as if Lillard is looking at a portable mirror.
Lillard is a two-time All-Star. Conley's defense makes him look like John Bagley.
2. Mike Conley funnels.This isn't the same as locking down, but it's arguably more important. Conley knows the Grizzlies' defense is great because all five players execute a system. His job is not to stop Damian Lillard so much as it is to push Lillard to the areas on the floor where he can be stopped. That means cajoling Lillard into the jaws of his help defenders like a Venus Fly Trap.
Here, Conley has a built-in advantage. Marc Gasol is a former Defensive Player of the Year, and the Grizzlies' core has been together for a long time. Lillard is playing without his best three-point shooter and his replacement starting shooting guard. Still, no other Lillard defender -- not Tony Allen, not Courtney Lee and definitely not Beno Udrih -- has the discipline and dogged pursuit to slip around and through screens to force Lillard into uncomfortable spots on the court.
3. Mike Conley manages an offense.This sounds like more boilerplate, and yet it is incredibly meaningful. While Lillard hunts his own shots, Conley is seeking hockey assists. These don't come easily, especially not for a point guard quarterbacking a two-post offense in the spacing era. Yet Conley finds ways to make it happen.
There's a certain flow great passing point guards require, and Conley has that flow. It's not enough to run through or cautiously brush off a pick and roll. There's an art to the timing required. Conley must wait until his big man is set, then fool the defender into coming just a little out of his stance before zooming through the screen. Watch how Conley gives Lillard a false sense of security before sprinting into a double screen for this dribble handoff.
4. Mike Conley slips through the cracks.There isn't a lot of space in the Grizzlies' offense, so a point guard needs to be able to maneuver in tight spaces. When Conley does choose to attack, he does so in jagged lines. He's fooling defenders into thinking he's going one way, then plants and darts the other.
Look at this stop, drop and roll routine to seal Game 2.
This applies to passing too. Every point guard must throw sound pocket passes. Few point guards must throw sound pocket passes through a tiny hole in the wall. This is the tiny hole that the Grizzlies' offense provides.
5. Mike Conley reads defenses.Actually, he plays tricks on defenses like the weird fisherman dangling a dollar bill in that State Farm commercial. The Blazers tried pushing Conley to the left baseline on three possessions in a row early in the third quarter of Game 2, hoping they could swarm him with bodies and cut off any passing angle. Conley told the Blazers to bring it on. He went right into the danger zone, kept his dribble alive, turned his head just long enough for the fourth defender to relax and hit Tony Allen charging down the lane.
On the next play, he just held the ball until the referee had to call a defensive three seconds. A couple minutes later, Conley waited for Lillard to engage in some defensive hero ball and found Lillard's man, Courtney Lee, at the top of the key.
Multiple defenders were staring down Conley's face from the worst possible angle on the floor. He still had the poise to know that the opponent furthest from the play determined his decision.
6. Mike Conley deflects praise.Lots of point guards are unselfish only to the point where they want everyone to know they're unselfish. They don't score, sure, but they sure as hell want people to recognize that they don't score. It's only natural to want to be known as a nice person that helps other people.
Mike Conley isn't like that. His first two answers to TNT's Lewis Johnson after the game focused on his team's defense and Tony Allen's play. The defensive effort was something he fueled, but he described it as an anthropomorphous being that he didn't control. Allen did the stuff he does all the time, but even he would say Conley was the key to the victory.
This is the attitude of a point guard that plays like he has multiple alarm clocks reminding him when his teammates need to touch the ball.
7. Mike Conley plays hurt.He has a foot injury that feels like this.
And is located here.
He won't complain about it because he never does. It's not like he needs to be healthy to control a series, anyway.
Your not his agent are you? I think your wasting money on Conley this team needs an elite shooting guard to make things work not PG the pG in the triangle is nothing but defense and facilitating the triangle with the ability to hit occasional threes.
Outside of Klay Thompson, name one elite SG. DeRozan? Maybe? After that..?
Bradley Beal, JJ Reddick, Kris Middleton, Kyle Korver? Do we want to pursue JR Smith again?
In today's NBA 7 footers that can shoot are more common in today's NBA than a legit spot-up SG
But realistically its just another DUMB Knick move to pay someone who walked off on crutches to end the season who will move well into their 30's on said contract
I think the Knicks did a pretty good job last offseason--they spread it around acquired two additional picks and ONLY locked into one of the better free agent signings. Giving Mike Conley 5 years and 100mm is absentee minded. Id rather absorb a bad contract of 10mm give up a future restricted 1 to grab Valentine to play PG and continue to develop Grant and Wroten.
BRIGGS wrote:If the goal is to win 38 games and push for the 8th seed--I guess its a good signing for 20mm a year.But realistically its just another DUMB Knick move to pay someone who walked off on crutches to end the season who will move well into their 30's on said contract
I think the Knicks did a pretty good job last offseason--they spread it around acquired two additional picks and ONLY locked into one of the better free agent signings. Giving Mike Conley 5 years and 100mm is absentee minded. Id rather absorb a bad contract of 10mm give up a future restricted 1 to grab Valentine to play PG and continue to develop Grant and Wroten.
They can't give him five years. 4yrs is the max.
He's five months older than Steph Curry. It's a sore achilles that they are trying to prevent from rupturing. I don't know too much about achilles and if the Knicks think it's a red flag, I hope they don't do a deal. But I hope they do their research.
I think a high first round draft pick is going to cost more than $10M in cap room. I just don't see the Valentine path as very likely.
callmened wrote:what is this fascination with Valentine. lololol. he WONT play PG at the next level. lol people think since draymond green went to mich st and valentine did the same, then the outcome will be the same. dude = Royce white without all the psych issues. he MIGHT be a nice role player but hes really not that good. the NCAA game is not very talented. some times these cerebral kids can figure it out despite not having great talent. that's what valentine is - a tweener with smarts. now im mad cuz now I almost have to root AGAINST this (good) kid to prove my point. I cant tell the future but I don't think hell be that good. lol. intangibles only takes you so far on the next level.
Everything you would want out of a PG running the triangle offense is there. The guy is nearly 6-6 225 with longer arms. Hes a GREAT outside shooter under rated ballhandler GREAT passer--best passing PG who will come into the league in years. Great rebounder for the position is able to play 30 feet all the way into the post. His intelligence is off the charts hes a winner hes developed hes a great choice. Hell be an all star and Mike Conley will be out of the league within 4 years. Whoever watched Mich St and walked away saying that guy cant play PG is way off. The whole reason why I said get Valentine rd 1 Felder rd 2 is I want to start a team that has first and 2nd line PG who really create an environment of ball movement--who innately move the ball--its within them to see the open man. Thats the difference maker. We can have guys like Wroten and Grant--but I dont think they are innate ball movers . When you have your PGs who can both hit the 3 with diverse skill sets who create the environment of the best shot the east shot--instead of iso ball or having really limited type pGs like Calderon--wow then we will see a change in the W-L--then we keep that as well for a LONG time--we build a new team concept that hasnt been here.
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:what is this fascination with Valentine. lololol. he WONT play PG at the next level. lol people think since draymond green went to mich st and valentine did the same, then the outcome will be the same. dude = Royce white without all the psych issues. he MIGHT be a nice role player but hes really not that good. the NCAA game is not very talented. some times these cerebral kids can figure it out despite not having great talent. that's what valentine is - a tweener with smarts. now im mad cuz now I almost have to root AGAINST this (good) kid to prove my point. I cant tell the future but I don't think hell be that good. lol. intangibles only takes you so far on the next level.Everything you would want out of a PG running the triangle offense is there. The guy is nearly 6-6 225 with longer arms. Hes a GREAT outside shooter under rated ballhandler GREAT passer--best passing PG who will come into the league in years. Great rebounder for the position is able to play 30 feet all the way into the post. His intelligence is off the charts hes a winner hes developed hes a great choice. Hell be an all star and Mike Conley will be out of the league within 4 years. Whoever watched Mich St and walked away saying that guy cant play PG is way off. The whole reason why I said get Valentine rd 1 Felder rd 2 is I want to start a team that has first and 2nd line PG who really create an environment of ball movement--who innately move the ball--its within them to see the open man. Thats the difference maker. We can have guys like Wroten and Grant--but I dont think they are innate ball movers . When you have your PGs who can both hit the 3 with diverse skill sets who create the environment of the best shot the east shot--instead of iso ball or having really limited type pGs like Calderon--wow then we will see a change in the W-L--then we keep that as well for a LONG time--we build a new team concept that hasnt been here.
I agree that Valentine is a Triangle type guard. I just don't know that Phil can make a deal to get high enough to land him. If he did I'd be happy but I don't see it happening.
crzymdups wrote:...The cap is supposed to be 92-95M, up from initial estimates of 89M...
I've heard the cap could go as high as 92 mil. I haven't heard reports anywhere about it going as high as 95 mil. I don't believe that is accurate. Could you please provide a link to where you heard the cap could reach 95 mil?
Only reason why people want Conley is because they have respect for what Memphis had done the last 5 years and think since Conley is their point guard then he will do the same for us.
That's the entire knicks fan base in a nutshell. That's why so many people hate Rambis and want Mark Jackson, Luke Walton and Thibbs to coach.
EnySpree wrote:Tell the truth....Only reason why people want Conley is because they have respect for what Memphis had done the last 5 years and think since Conley is their point guard then he will do the same for us.
That's the entire knicks fan base in a nutshell. That's why so many people hate Rambis and want Mark Jackson, Luke Walton and Thibbs to coach.
Or it could be that we had to endure Jose Calderon the last few years.
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:what is this fascination with Valentine. lololol. he WONT play PG at the next level. lol people think since draymond green went to mich st and valentine did the same, then the outcome will be the same. dude = Royce white without all the psych issues. he MIGHT be a nice role player but hes really not that good. the NCAA game is not very talented. some times these cerebral kids can figure it out despite not having great talent. that's what valentine is - a tweener with smarts. now im mad cuz now I almost have to root AGAINST this (good) kid to prove my point. I cant tell the future but I don't think hell be that good. lol. intangibles only takes you so far on the next level.Everything you would want out of a PG running the triangle offense is there. The guy is nearly 6-6 225 with longer arms. Hes a GREAT outside shooter under rated ballhandler GREAT passer--best passing PG who will come into the league in years. Great rebounder for the position is able to play 30 feet all the way into the post. His intelligence is off the charts hes a winner hes developed hes a great choice. Hell be an all star and Mike Conley will be out of the league within 4 years. Whoever watched Mich St and walked away saying that guy cant play PG is way off. The whole reason why I said get Valentine rd 1 Felder rd 2 is I want to start a team that has first and 2nd line PG who really create an environment of ball movement--who innately move the ball--its within them to see the open man. Thats the difference maker. We can have guys like Wroten and Grant--but I dont think they are innate ball movers . When you have your PGs who can both hit the 3 with diverse skill sets who create the environment of the best shot the east shot--instead of iso ball or having really limited type pGs like Calderon--wow then we will see a change in the W-L--then we keep that as well for a LONG time--we build a new team concept that hasnt been here.
We all know how good the kid is, i mean there's a reason he's considered a lottery pick. The problem that you just can't seem to see is we don't have the assets to get a lottery pick without giving up future 1st round picks which is exactly what we don't want to do.
EnySpree wrote:Tell the truth....Only reason why people want Conley is because they have respect for what Memphis had done the last 5 years and think since Conley is their point guard then he will do the same for us.
That's the entire knicks fan base in a nutshell. That's why so many people hate Rambis and want Mark Jackson, Luke Walton and Thibbs to coach.
Or maybe it's because he's a really good point guard which is what our team needs most and he's the top free agent point guard out there and a top free agent out there?? Sounds about right.
newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:Tell the truth....Only reason why people want Conley is because they have respect for what Memphis had done the last 5 years and think since Conley is their point guard then he will do the same for us.
That's the entire knicks fan base in a nutshell. That's why so many people hate Rambis and want Mark Jackson, Luke Walton and Thibbs to coach.
Or maybe it's because he's a really good point guard which is what our team needs most and he's the top free agent point guard out there and a top free agent out there?? Sounds about right.
The dude is highly overrated and on the decline. Absolutely not worth the money it will take to get him. Guys are talking about 20 million plus.
So yeah I think my initial post is the truth ruth
EnySpree wrote:Tell the truth....Only reason why people want Conley is because they have respect for what Memphis had done the last 5 years and think since Conley is their point guard then he will do the same for us.
That's the entire knicks fan base in a nutshell. That's why so many people hate Rambis and want Mark Jackson, Luke Walton and Thibbs to coach.
The reason is because Conley went to social media and said he wants to play for the knicks. On top of that, he's a legit PG (when healthy) and knick fans are starving for success. It's like somebody dropping food on the street.....People that are starving will convence themselves that if you blow on it, it will be clean. Others that are not starving, will simply go back and buy more food.
We are starving for a legit PG. This has been an issue before Melo came here. And the day of the trade, I'm on record saying this doesn't fill any holes we had before the trade...Which was PG and center. Yes, later we got Tyson.....But it wasn't until Linsanity, when we started looking like a decent team.....Guess what, Tyson and Lin filled the two critical positions we were lacking.
It's very difficult to be a serious championship team without a decent PG and Center......who can hold there own. And those two positions are deep. We lacked starter quality and bench quality at those positions. So when we traded for Melo, it made me not like the trade even more. Because I knew it wouldn't give us enough cap room to fill those two positions.
Now back to this thread.....We are starving for a legit PG. Even if it's Conley.....But it's the same old pattern. Wait until somebody is just starting to get injured a lot, then give him a huge contract. At least with Phil, he doesn't seem like the type to just hand out major contracts (outside of Melo, who I think was pressured from Dolan). But the good news is that Phil looks like he will fillout the roster with Wooten type guys, and hope he found a gem. If his plan works out, he will leave the knicks in good shape! Hopefully with only 1 major move away from competing. Right now, we are 3-6 moves away!
SugarRay wrote:crzymdups wrote:...The cap is supposed to be 92-95M, up from initial estimates of 89M...I've heard the cap could go as high as 92 mil. I haven't heard reports anywhere about it going as high as 95 mil. I don't believe that is accurate. Could you please provide a link to where you heard the cap could reach 95 mil?
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EnySpree wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:Tell the truth....Only reason why people want Conley is because they have respect for what Memphis had done the last 5 years and think since Conley is their point guard then he will do the same for us.
That's the entire knicks fan base in a nutshell. That's why so many people hate Rambis and want Mark Jackson, Luke Walton and Thibbs to coach.
Or maybe it's because he's a really good point guard which is what our team needs most and he's the top free agent point guard out there and a top free agent out there?? Sounds about right.The dude is highly overrated and on the decline. Absolutely not worth the money it will take to get him. Guys are talking about 20 million plus.
So yeah I think my initial post is the truth ruth
I think your initial post is off the mark, but I doubt I can convince.
I think Conley is the perfect PG for this offense and defense. I hope Phil can see it. All evidence is that the Knicks are going to be contacting Conley in Free Agency, if not make him their top target.
Conley is more realistic than DeRozan. I don't DeRozan leaving Toronto.
my dream team:
lopez
kp
durant
turner
rubio
blkexec wrote:EnySpree wrote:Tell the truth....Only reason why people want Conley is because they have respect for what Memphis had done the last 5 years and think since Conley is their point guard then he will do the same for us.
That's the entire knicks fan base in a nutshell. That's why so many people hate Rambis and want Mark Jackson, Luke Walton and Thibbs to coach.
The reason is because Conley went to social media and said he wants to play for the knicks. On top of that, he's a legit PG (when healthy) and knick fans are starving for success. It's like somebody dropping food on the street.....People that are starving will convence themselves that if you blow on it, it will be clean. Others that are not starving, will simply go back and buy more food.
We are starving for a legit PG. This has been an issue before Melo came here. And the day of the trade, I'm on record saying this doesn't fill any holes we had before the trade...Which was PG and center. Yes, later we got Tyson.....But it wasn't until Linsanity, when we started looking like a decent team.....Guess what, Tyson and Lin filled the two critical positions we were lacking.
It's very difficult to be a serious championship team without a decent PG and Center......who can hold there own. And those two positions are deep. We lacked starter quality and bench quality at those positions. So when we traded for Melo, it made me not like the trade even more. Because I knew it wouldn't give us enough cap room to fill those two positions.
Now back to this thread.....We are starving for a legit PG. Even if it's Conley.....But it's the same old pattern. Wait until somebody is just starting to get injured a lot, then give him a huge contract. At least with Phil, he doesn't seem like the type to just hand out major contracts (outside of Melo, who I think was pressured from Dolan). But the good news is that Phil looks like he will fillout the roster with Wooten type guys, and hope he found a gem. If his plan works out, he will leave the knicks in good shape! Hopefully with only 1 major move away from competing. Right now, we are 3-6 moves away!
Nice long post of you repeating the same thing. Yeah the Knicks need a point guard. Doesn't mean we need to over hype and over pay Conley.
When did Conley say he wanted to come to new York on social media?
There's a thing called tampering. No need to lie to attempt to make a point.
crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:Tell the truth....Only reason why people want Conley is because they have respect for what Memphis had done the last 5 years and think since Conley is their point guard then he will do the same for us.
That's the entire knicks fan base in a nutshell. That's why so many people hate Rambis and want Mark Jackson, Luke Walton and Thibbs to coach.
Or maybe it's because he's a really good point guard which is what our team needs most and he's the top free agent point guard out there and a top free agent out there?? Sounds about right.The dude is highly overrated and on the decline. Absolutely not worth the money it will take to get him. Guys are talking about 20 million plus.
So yeah I think my initial post is the truth ruth
I think your initial post is off the mark, but I doubt I can convince.
I think Conley is the perfect PG for this offense and defense. I hope Phil can see it. All evidence is that the Knicks are going to be contacting Conley in Free Agency, if not make him their top target.
Phil will contact him but I wouldn't say he's the perfect point guard for us.