Knicks · With Grant and Wroten... We DO NOT need to sign or trade for a point guard (page 1)

Grant should have been playing this way to start the season. He's a 5 year college player that was a beast in college and in the tournament. Guys wanted Fisher and Rambis to just play him regardless but he didn't deserve it. Fisher declined to send him to the d-league. He probably needed a stint in the d-league to wake him up. Anyway, the kid is here now and we need him to fight Wroten for the starting spot.

As far as Wroten if he doesn't start right away, I believe we have a Jamal Crawford type player. So if he's the first guard off the bench then we got better in a big way.

Grant and Wroten in the backcourt together could also be an option. Both players attack and play defense and would be a nightmare to defend.

anyway, that leaves 18-30 million depending on what happens with d-will and Afflalo.... all of that or most of it needs to be spent on a shooting guard. There are alot of Good ones available.

On the low end, if we can use the 18 million to sign Eric Gordon and David Lee... that might be enough to really make noise next year. The high end? The sky is the limit.

In most systems....you are correct. But does Phil see these guys as the pg of the future or would he rather have a vet running the triangle......while these guys fight for backup and the other guy used as trade bait.

Doesn't seem like Phil and company takes the obvious rebuilding strategy. As melo ages and Phil approaches the end, pressure to win now will build up.

Grant and Wroten are still unproven and one has health concerns. If you are hoping for one of these guys to step up and taking the starting job its very possible. Its also possible that approach ends with Jose being the starter once again. The pendulum swings both ways.

I will say this.. I would much prefer to throw max money at Derozan and Batum and go with Grant/Wroten/Jose as the PGs next year than spend max money on Conley or spend on Rondo.

Like the way Grant has been playing. I am still 100% high on him. Wroten is a maybe. He's been hurt. If he can get back to that player who may have been breaking out in Phili great, but that's not a given.

fishmike wrote:Grant and Wroten are still unproven and one has health concerns. If you are hoping for one of these guys to step up and taking the starting job its very possible. Its also possible that approach ends with Jose being the starter once again. The pendulum swings both ways.

I will say this.. I would much prefer to throw max money at Derozan and Batum and go with Grant/Wroten/Jose as the PGs next year than spend max money on Conley or spend on Rondo.

Like the way Grant has been playing. I am still 100% high on him. Wroten is a maybe. He's been hurt. If he can get back to that player who may have been breaking out in Phili great, but that's not a given.

I agree......Wroten is an interesting unknown. Grant is an interesting known. I don't think the coaching staff is confident in having either player as the starter next year. Maybe by mid season. But the triangle doesn't need the pg to be one of the best players. I would hate to max out Conley....rather have Derozan as well.

Kp
Rolo
Melo
Derozan
Grant

That's a major upgrade on defense....with more penetrating guards in the rotation. Hope dwill returns......he's an important player for us with his attacking style at the forward position. I just hate dwills defense.

Who does Phil see as the better guard..,Gallo or Wroten....I can't see Phil holding onto all these combo guards.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:Grant and Wroten are still unproven and one has health concerns. If you are hoping for one of these guys to step up and taking the starting job its very possible. Its also possible that approach ends with Jose being the starter once again. The pendulum swings both ways.

I will say this.. I would much prefer to throw max money at Derozan and Batum and go with Grant/Wroten/Jose as the PGs next year than spend max money on Conley or spend on Rondo.

Like the way Grant has been playing. I am still 100% high on him. Wroten is a maybe. He's been hurt. If he can get back to that player who may have been breaking out in Phili great, but that's not a given.

I agree......Wroten is an interesting unknown. Grant is an interesting known. I don't think the coaching staff is confident in having either player as the starter next year. Maybe by mid season. But the triangle doesn't need the pg to be one of the best players. I would hate to max out Conley....rather have Derozan as well.

Kp
Rolo
Melo
Derozan
Grant

That's a major upgrade on defense....with more penetrating guards in the rotation. Hope dwill returns......he's an important player for us with his attacking style at the forward position. I just hate dwills defense.

Who does Phil see as the better guard..,Gallo or Wroten....I can't see Phil holding onto all these combo guards.

I think I've moved on from Batum to DeRozan as the main target for the Knicks this upcoming free agent season. Someone else said that they thought Batum played much better this season when he was moved from SG to SF when Lee was added to the lineup, and just glancing at the boxscores I'd kind of agree.

DeRozan still very young and in the mold of Kobe, MJ. Very intriguing.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:Grant and Wroten are still unproven and one has health concerns. If you are hoping for one of these guys to step up and taking the starting job its very possible. Its also possible that approach ends with Jose being the starter once again. The pendulum swings both ways.

I will say this.. I would much prefer to throw max money at Derozan and Batum and go with Grant/Wroten/Jose as the PGs next year than spend max money on Conley or spend on Rondo.

Like the way Grant has been playing. I am still 100% high on him. Wroten is a maybe. He's been hurt. If he can get back to that player who may have been breaking out in Phili great, but that's not a given.

I agree......Wroten is an interesting unknown. Grant is an interesting known. I don't think the coaching staff is confident in having either player as the starter next year. Maybe by mid season. But the triangle doesn't need the pg to be one of the best players. I would hate to max out Conley....rather have Derozan as well.

Kp
Rolo
Melo
Derozan
Grant

That's a major upgrade on defense....with more penetrating guards in the rotation. Hope dwill returns......he's an important player for us with his attacking style at the forward position. I just hate dwills defense.

Who does Phil see as the better guard..,Gallo or Wroten....I can't see Phil holding onto all these combo guards.

I think I've moved on from Batum to DeRozan as the main target for the Knicks this upcoming free agent season. Someone else said that they thought Batum played much better this season when he was moved from SG to SF when Lee was added to the lineup, and just glancing at the boxscores I'd kind of agree.

DeRozan still very young and in the mold of Kobe, MJ. Very intriguing.

Adding Derozan with melo is similar to when the bulls add pipen...with jordan. You have two players that can carry the offensive load. And Derozan is young and athletic enough to guard his man without doubling. The problem is melo. He's already known as a black hole who only plays on one side. As he gets older, that weakness gets worse. So we need more than just Derozan.....This is where Phils additions might help fill those gaps.....Dwill, Lance, Wroten, Rolo, ect

I think Grant and/or Wroten as PG next year would be fine. We need a SG that can consistently hit the outside shot. That is what all the Phil Jackson teams had.

blkexec wrote:In most systems....you are correct. But does Phil see these guys as the pg of the future or would he rather have a vet running the triangle......while these guys fight for backup and the other guy used as trade bait.

Doesn't seem like Phil and company takes the obvious rebuilding strategy. As melo ages and Phil approaches the end, pressure to win now will build up.

That doesn't make sense because if he would much rather have a vet then we would have went after a vet instead of trading for Grant in the draft and sneakily trying to prep Wroten for the incentive laced contact he has now. Two guys making minimum money andnon guaranteed money is hardly trade bait.

What is happening is Phil is rebuilding with youth and leaving it open to sign major players to fill in.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:Grant and Wroten are still unproven and one has health concerns. If you are hoping for one of these guys to step up and taking the starting job its very possible. Its also possible that approach ends with Jose being the starter once again. The pendulum swings both ways.

I will say this.. I would much prefer to throw max money at Derozan and Batum and go with Grant/Wroten/Jose as the PGs next year than spend max money on Conley or spend on Rondo.

Like the way Grant has been playing. I am still 100% high on him. Wroten is a maybe. He's been hurt. If he can get back to that player who may have been breaking out in Phili great, but that's not a given.

I agree......Wroten is an interesting unknown. Grant is an interesting known. I don't think the coaching staff is confident in having either player as the starter next year. Maybe by mid season. But the triangle doesn't need the pg to be one of the best players. I would hate to max out Conley....rather have Derozan as well.

Kp
Rolo
Melo
Derozan
Grant

That's a major upgrade on defense....with more penetrating guards in the rotation. Hope dwill returns......he's an important player for us with his attacking style at the forward position. I just hate dwills defense.

Who does Phil see as the better guard..,Gallo or Wroten....I can't see Phil holding onto all these combo guards.

I think I've moved on from Batum to DeRozan as the main target for the Knicks this upcoming free agent season. Someone else said that they thought Batum played much better this season when he was moved from SG to SF when Lee was added to the lineup, and just glancing at the boxscores I'd kind of agree.

DeRozan still very young and in the mold of Kobe, MJ. Very intriguing.

Adding Derozan with melo is similar to when the bulls add pipen...with jordan. You have two players that can carry the offensive load. And Derozan is young and athletic enough to guard his man without doubling. The problem is melo. He's already known as a black hole who only plays on one side. As he gets older, that weakness gets worse. So we need more than just Derozan.....This is where Phils additions might help fill those gaps.....Dwill, Lance, Wroten, Rolo, ect

Yeah agreed. Hoping that KP really accelerates his development from complimentary player to lead within 2 years. Front line of Rolo/KP may be enough to have Melo in the lineup if guards are decent?

DWill's jumpshot and rebounding have been nice over the past months but his defensive awareness and overall intensity (especially against playoff teams) just sucks. I have real doubts about him.

DeRozen is in his prime and should be our primary target. If this doesn't occur them Fournier or Batum are both sensible. I've read here that Wrotens knee has had 2 surgeries on same knee whixh makes him suspect. Galloway is also suspect as his contribution has been limited. Sasha - given his contribution, knowledge of the triangle and relationship w KP should be our bench guard. Calderon should be stretched and if Melo decides that he's persona non grata in NY and Afflalo packs up as well, then there is upside and Phil should dump Rambis and earn his keep -
Hiring Thibs would be the place to start.
KP/ DeRozen / Fournier / Wroten / grant/ OQuinn/ Williams / Hernangomez / Lopez /
And say a rotation player plus a draft pick top 10 for Melo. Count me in.

I agree. Spend the $$ on another scorer. Derozan would be nice. Batum ok. Durant? in our dreams. The point is, another scorer helps the team and takes pressure of Melo and KP. A scorer ups everyone's game. Awfulalo is not the guy.

i agree (that we might as well play grant and wroten) because as a psuedo-Hinkie fan i think we should tank next yr. not like were gonna be any good. ceiling is probably 40-45 wins and an 8th seed...thats called NBA purgatory

EnySpree wrote:

blkexec wrote:In most systems....you are correct. But does Phil see these guys as the pg of the future or would he rather have a vet running the triangle......while these guys fight for backup and the other guy used as trade bait.

Doesn't seem like Phil and company takes the obvious rebuilding strategy. As melo ages and Phil approaches the end, pressure to win now will build up.

That doesn't make sense because if he would much rather have a vet then we would have went after a vet instead of trading for Grant in the draft and sneakily trying to prep Wroten for the incentive laced contact he has now. Two guys making minimum money andnon guaranteed money is hardly trade bait.

What is happening is Phil is rebuilding with youth and leaving it open to sign major players to fill in.

IMO Phil is hoping that Wroten can develop into the attacking and defensive Combo guard this team needs. Wroten is physically the kind of guard that he's had even tho he's still got a lot of development ahead of him. He's just turning 23 on April 13th. If you're going to have injuries the younger you are the better chance at a full recovery or close to it. Wroten is a good low risk move.
A 6-6 Combo Guard with great handles, speed and some defensive talent. That really is about the best we could do for no cost.

Knicks are going to be running a 2 guard front and it's possible Jerian and Wroten could see the floor at the same time. You need 2 guards that can push, pass and penetrate IMO. Wroten simply must improve his jumper to make his game more complete. Grant has made good progress on his jumper and I hope Wroten can do the same. Between Gallo, Grant and Wroten the defensive presence should improve as well. There's good length and quickness with them out there.

I think Phil has looked at the Free Agent landscape and realizes he can't simply rely on that alone. I'm glad he's looking at all options.

I like both Wroten and Grant - if the right SG is out there, I'd be behind this plan.

I question whether Batum is the right size to play SG in this league. Think he might be better at SF.

Charlotte improved a lot when Batum moved to SF and Courtney Lee became their starting SG.

EnySpree wrote:Grant should have been playing this way to start the season. He's a 5 year college player that was a beast in college and in the tournament. Guys wanted Fisher and Rambis to just play him regardless but he didn't deserve it. Fisher declined to send him to the d-league. He probably needed a stint in the d-league to wake him up. Anyway, the kid is here now and we need him to fight Wroten for the starting spot.

As far as Wroten if he doesn't start right away, I believe we have a Jamal Crawford type player. So if he's the first guard off the bench then we got better in a big way.

Grant and Wroten in the backcourt together could also be an option. Both players attack and play defense and would be a nightmare to defend.

anyway, that leaves 18-30 million depending on what happens with d-will and Afflalo.... all of that or most of it needs to be spent on a shooting guard. There are alot of Good ones available.

On the low end, if we can use the 18 million to sign Eric Gordon and David Lee... that might be enough to really make noise next year. The high end? The sky is the limit.

Well i don't see Wroten as a J.Crawford cause Crawford is a decent shooter but i've been saying for a while that i think J.Crawford should be one of the free agent guards that we should look at this off season. Wroten said that Crawford has been helping him out a lot by talking with him and i think they might even work out together so he'd be perfect to come in on a cheap two year contract to help both Wroten and Grant to take over in a year or two. Crawford can play both guard spots as well so if we could get him and a bigger name guard to come in and play the other guard spot i think we'd be good.

Durantulaaaaaaaaa pleaaaaaaaaaseeeee. But he'd have to "grow up" quickly. Become more media savvy.

crzymdups wrote:I like both Wroten and Grant - if the right SG is out there, I'd be behind this plan.

I question whether Batum is the right size to play SG in this league. Think he might be better at SF.

Charlotte improved a lot when Batum moved to SF and Courtney Lee became their starting SG.

Batum is better at SF....
Melo is better at PF....
Rolo or KP can man the center spot.....

I've never been a huge Batum fan....Not sure what the big fuss is about. But if he's as advertised, he allows Melo to move to his best position as he enters his advanced age.

But PG and SG is more of a need than SF.....

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:Grant and Wroten are still unproven and one has health concerns. If you are hoping for one of these guys to step up and taking the starting job its very possible. Its also possible that approach ends with Jose being the starter once again. The pendulum swings both ways.

I will say this.. I would much prefer to throw max money at Derozan and Batum and go with Grant/Wroten/Jose as the PGs next year than spend max money on Conley or spend on Rondo.

Like the way Grant has been playing. I am still 100% high on him. Wroten is a maybe. He's been hurt. If he can get back to that player who may have been breaking out in Phili great, but that's not a given.

I agree......Wroten is an interesting unknown. Grant is an interesting known. I don't think the coaching staff is confident in having either player as the starter next year. Maybe by mid season. But the triangle doesn't need the pg to be one of the best players. I would hate to max out Conley....rather have Derozan as well.

Kp
Rolo
Melo
Derozan
Grant

That's a major upgrade on defense....with more penetrating guards in the rotation. Hope dwill returns......he's an important player for us with his attacking style at the forward position. I just hate dwills defense.

Who does Phil see as the better guard..,Gallo or Wroten....I can't see Phil holding onto all these combo guards.

I think I've moved on from Batum to DeRozan as the main target for the Knicks this upcoming free agent season. Someone else said that they thought Batum played much better this season when he was moved from SG to SF when Lee was added to the lineup, and just glancing at the boxscores I'd kind of agree.

DeRozan still very young and in the mold of Kobe, MJ. Very intriguing.

Adding Derozan with melo is similar to when the bulls add pipen...with jordan. You have two players that can carry the offensive load. And Derozan is young and athletic enough to guard his man without doubling. The problem is melo. He's already known as a black hole who only plays on one side. As he gets older, that weakness gets worse. So we need more than just Derozan.....This is where Phils additions might help fill those gaps.....Dwill, Lance, Wroten, Rolo, ect

Yeah agreed. Hoping that KP really accelerates his development from complimentary player to lead within 2 years. Front line of Rolo/KP may be enough to have Melo in the lineup if guards are decent?

DWill's jumpshot and rebounding have been nice over the past months but his defensive awareness and overall intensity (especially against playoff teams) just sucks. I have real doubts about him.

I also have some doubts with D-Will. I love his athleticism and his shot has been surprisingly better as of late but his defensive awareness is horrible. I'd still like to have him as a guy off the bench that can come in and do some crazy dunks and get to the foul line but i have a feeling that another team is gonna make him a offer that we wouldn't think about matching.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I agree. Spend the $$ on another scorer. Derozan would be nice. Batum ok. Durant? in our dreams. The point is, another scorer helps the team and takes pressure of Melo and KP. A scorer ups everyone's game. Awfulalo is not the guy.

We would all love to get Derozan or Batum but both will get maxed out by their current teams which both players have said they love playing for and Derozan has really talked about how much he loves playing for Toronto and loves it every time he puts on his Raptors jersey.

fishmike wrote:Grant and Wroten are still unproven and one has health concerns. If you are hoping for one of these guys to step up and taking the starting job its very possible. Its also possible that approach ends with Jose being the starter once again. The pendulum swings both ways.

I will say this.. I would much prefer to throw max money at Derozan and Batum and go with Grant/Wroten/Jose as the PGs next year than spend max money on Conley or spend on Rondo.

Like the way Grant has been playing. I am still 100% high on him. Wroten is a maybe. He's been hurt. If he can get back to that player who may have been breaking out in Phili great, but that's not a given.

Yeah I like this thinking more than anything, it just that every rookie we have had in the last 10 yrs, has taken a giant step backwards, (see galloway and Early as the most recent).

but I would give max $ to derozen in a heart beat

don't see how you can possibly upgrade from grant and wroten