nixluva wrote:Only way I see OKC getting to the next level is a quality PG who can make better decisions late in games. KD and Westbrook are just not making smart TEAM plays when they need to play team ball.
They have Cameron Payne, who I like a lot- unfortunately he wasn't ready to majorly contribute this season, but longer term he's just what they need.
Great teams know how to close out close games. OKC does not have this. Many reasons for it. How to fix it? Easier said than done.
Stars can't go iso, they have to trust in the system. Have to give GSW credit also. That long ball defies everything we know about the game. They get it done!!!
westbrook remains a big problem for okc. his usage was the right level and he racked up the assists and he is an incredible rebounder, but: his shot selection remains a problem. taking 21 shots and making 7 in a game 7 is just self-defeating.
also, westbrook and durant still haven't established ideal chemistry, in that westbrook actually hinders durant's ability to be a playmaker and create more offensive cohesion. in the regular season, certain flaws in chemistry can be trumped by sheer talent, but not deep into the playoffs. there's one reason durant's assist numbers went from 5 in the jayvee season down to a measly 3.3, and that's westbrook's weird selfishness. he tries to do too much. there's a lot of hubris to accompany all that fire and desire.
durant has a very tough decision. he has room for improvement without westbrook but almost any other team won't have the talent that okc has. does durant trust donovan to rein in westbrook and help him tighten up his game? i don't see it.
If Golden State doesnt get MUCH better production from other guys they will lose the next series. I think height bothered them this series and they relied on Curry Thompson too much. There was one segment of play where everyone was playing as a team--they need that for much longer periods of time.
NYKBocker wrote:I don't like the warriors. A bunch of arrogant fookers
And Westbrook and Durant arn't? No problem with having confidence and spirit. In fact, its a key component of a team's mental strength.
GustavBahler wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Might be the last time we see Durant and Westbrook on the same team. My guess is that OKC mgmt will look for a third star to form a big three to keep Westbrook and Durant in OKC.
they are capped out
They have some good pieces to offer in a trade.
They only have two possible trade chips, Kanter and Ibaka. They need both players and just signed Kanter to a long deal. The problem is people might not value Kanter and Ibaka will be a FA next summer. OKC needs to upgrade their 2 guard and back up wings.
Nalod wrote:Great teams know how to close out close games. OKC does not have this. Many reasons for it. How to fix it? Easier said than done.
Stars can't go iso, they have to trust in the system. Have to give GSW credit also. That long ball defies everything we know about the game. They get it done!!!
Yup, team ball always prevails and that is why I'm kind of relieved that OKC lost in the end. In Game 6 towards the last 5 minutes it was strictly Westbrook and KD isolation and it lead to many missed FGs and turnovers. Can't have that.
yellowboy90 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Might be the last time we see Durant and Westbrook on the same team. My guess is that OKC mgmt will look for a third star to form a big three to keep Westbrook and Durant in OKC.
they are capped out
They have some good pieces to offer in a trade.
They only have two possible trade chips, Kanter and Ibaka. They need both players and just signed Kanter to a long deal. The problem is people might not value Kanter and Ibaka will be a FA next summer. OKC needs to upgrade their 2 guard and back up wings.
They could do a sign and trade with Adams as well. I wouldnt trade him unless it was for an elite player. Im guessing that Kanter would be traded first, if at all. There is some room for OKC to maneuver IMO.
Not too sure OKC need to change the team at all. They were very close to making the finals this year. Should really have won game 6, but maybe that spurs them on next year.
on a slightly different but related note, was anyone else impressed with Waiter's interior passing. I didn't know he had that in his gam
And I'd say hats off to both teams. OKC definitely choked but they beat GS 3 out of 7 and Klay Thompson had to play possessed in game 6 for there even to be a game 7. I mean he's great, but that performance was amazing
GS definitely showed guts and composure. A lot of the announcers were talking about OKC arguing, eye rolls etc. Didn't see that on GS and it may have been the difference between the two teams. One really trusted their teammates, and the other -- more questionable
I continue to think -- despite his assist stats -- Westbrook should be playing the 2 spot. You have to think they have assets to swing a trade with Atlanta for one of their pgs
I'm not sure what OKC might get for them but I'd trade Waiters and Ibaka for lesser but smarter players. A sign-n-trade might work for Waiters, he's underpaid (I guess, he's getting about $5.5 million this year and he didn't resign during the season). Ibaka has one more year left but I'd guess any number of teams might want to pay him what he's getting, roughly $12.5 million this year and next.
Adams, at least from my point of view, is fantastic, dependable, and slowly getting better, and radically underpaid at $3 million. He's probably quite tradable but who you gonna get to replace him? He's worth, IMO, near max money.
Chandler wrote:And I'd say hats off to both teams. OKC definitely choked but they beat GS 3 out of 7 and Klay Thompson had to play possessed in game 6 for there even to be a game 7. I mean he's great, but that performance was amazingGS definitely showed guts and composure. A lot of the announcers were talking about OKC arguing, eye rolls etc. Didn't see that on GS and it may have been the difference between the two teams. One really trusted their teammates, and the other -- more questionable
I continue to think -- despite his assist stats -- Westbrook should be playing the 2 spot. You have to think they have assets to swing a trade with Atlanta for one of their pgs
Klay was definitely a hero but dray also played pretty badly. I think that Cleveland will have no way of stopping Dray.
Westbrook seems to need the ball in his hands way too much so I don't see him deferring to another PG that easily. What Westbrook needs is to know when its time to play with some brains. I never cared for him but he showed that he can potentially be one of the top couple of players in the league, but he also showed that he can still be a selfish dunce with a low IQ when it counts.
You point about GSW trusting his team ... look at how many times Curry just gives up the ball and makes the correct unselfish basketball play and he is freakin steph curry.
Someone mentioned in the game thread yesterday that Kerr is overrated ... way off in my opinion.
NumberTwoPencil wrote:I'm not sure what OKC might get for them but I'd trade Waiters and Ibaka for lesser but smarter players. A sign-n-trade might work for Waiters, he's underpaid (I guess, he's getting about $5.5 million this year and he didn't resign during the season). Ibaka has one more year left but I'd guess any number of teams might want to pay him what he's getting, roughly $12.5 million this year and next. Adams, at least from my point of view, is fantastic, dependable, and slowly getting better, and radically underpaid at $3 million. He's probably quite tradable but who you gonna get to replace him? He's worth, IMO, near max money.
Adams was one of the main reasons that they got here and almost won ... no way in hell I get rid of him. Not even for Rolo.
mreinman wrote:Chandler wrote:And I'd say hats off to both teams. OKC definitely choked but they beat GS 3 out of 7 and Klay Thompson had to play possessed in game 6 for there even to be a game 7. I mean he's great, but that performance was amazingGS definitely showed guts and composure. A lot of the announcers were talking about OKC arguing, eye rolls etc. Didn't see that on GS and it may have been the difference between the two teams. One really trusted their teammates, and the other -- more questionable
I continue to think -- despite his assist stats -- Westbrook should be playing the 2 spot. You have to think they have assets to swing a trade with Atlanta for one of their pgs
Klay was definitely a hero but dray also played pretty badly. I think that Cleveland will have no way of stopping Dray.
Westbrook seems to need the ball in his hands way too much so I don't see him deferring to another PG that easily. What Westbrook needs is to know when its time to play with some brains. I never cared for him but he showed that he can potentially be one of the top couple of players in the league, but he also showed that he can still be a selfish dunce with a low IQ when it counts.
You point about GSW trusting his team ... look at how many times Curry just gives up the ball and makes the correct unselfish basketball play and he is freakin steph curry.
Someone mentioned in the game thread yesterday that Kerr is overrated ... way off in my opinion.
That was me. He is a great coach, but I thought that GSW had multiple recurring mistakes throughout the series that could have been fixed. I thought there were improvements made in game 7 that played very well in his favor.
TPercy wrote:mreinman wrote:Chandler wrote:And I'd say hats off to both teams. OKC definitely choked but they beat GS 3 out of 7 and Klay Thompson had to play possessed in game 6 for there even to be a game 7. I mean he's great, but that performance was amazingGS definitely showed guts and composure. A lot of the announcers were talking about OKC arguing, eye rolls etc. Didn't see that on GS and it may have been the difference between the two teams. One really trusted their teammates, and the other -- more questionable
I continue to think -- despite his assist stats -- Westbrook should be playing the 2 spot. You have to think they have assets to swing a trade with Atlanta for one of their pgs
Klay was definitely a hero but dray also played pretty badly. I think that Cleveland will have no way of stopping Dray.
Westbrook seems to need the ball in his hands way too much so I don't see him deferring to another PG that easily. What Westbrook needs is to know when its time to play with some brains. I never cared for him but he showed that he can potentially be one of the top couple of players in the league, but he also showed that he can still be a selfish dunce with a low IQ when it counts.
You point about GSW trusting his team ... look at how many times Curry just gives up the ball and makes the correct unselfish basketball play and he is freakin steph curry.
Someone mentioned in the game thread yesterday that Kerr is overrated ... way off in my opinion.
That was me. He is a great coach, but I thought that GSW had multiple recurring mistakes throughout the series that could have been fixed. I thought there were improvements made in game 7 that played very well in his favor.
Kerr is a great coach, but this is a series OKC lost. When westbrook and durant were passing (instead of driving) OKCs turnovers were way down and they were humming. Not sure why they veered from that; couldn't see what adjustments GSW made to stop that
was also surprised that Donovan shied away from Kanter. He seemed effective when teamed with Adams because the latter had reasonably quick feet on defense
still hats off to both; okc has a whole summer to stew over this series (GSW in contrast needs to send extra thank you notes to the NBA and the refs)
Billy Donovan's comments about trying to build better habits for next season I found interesting. Westbrook seems like the type of guy a 90s Zen Master Phil could get to buy into a team concept and get him to that next level. Russell is a maniac but seems like his cockiness got the best of him. Snickering at that defense question was not a good look — and I'm a fan of his game.
I swing back and forth from being amazed and kinda hating on the Ws. Amazed because its like watching NBA Jam version of the Warriors. Hating because its so different from the basketball I grew up watching in the 90s. Possibly the best backcourt ever made of sons of NBA players. Growing up with intimate knowledge of the league, it's almost like they hatched from some David Stern eugenics lab! Is this the new normal? Jerian Grant, hope you were paying attention to your father and uncle at the barbeques!
A NY Times commenter said that this team is def better than the 72-win Bulls because folks forget that expansion spread out the talent pool. An interesting observation.
DrAlphaeus wrote:Billy Donovan's comments about trying to build better habits for next season I found interesting. Westbrook seems like the type of guy a 90s Zen Master Phil could get to buy into a team concept and get him to that next level. Russell is a maniac but seems like his cockiness got the best of him. Snickering at that defense question was not a good look — and I'm a fan of his game.I swing back and forth from being amazed and kinda hating on the Ws. Amazed because its like watching NBA Jam version of the Warriors. Hating because its so different from the basketball I grew up watching in the 90s. Possibly the best backcourt ever made of sons of NBA players. Growing up with intimate knowledge of the league, it's almost like they hatched from some David Stern eugenics lab! Is this the new normal? Jerian Grant, hope you were paying attention to your father and uncle at the barbeques!
A NY Times commenter said that this team is def better than the 72-win Bulls because folks forget that expansion spread out the talent pool. An interesting observation.
The opposite of that last part is that the expansion diluting the league makes the Warriors competition less strong. You could argue that expansion makes their 73 win season LESS impressive, not more. If there were only 28 teams, there'd be more talent on every team, making it tought to win 73 games. But, also, weren't the Grizz and Raptors brought into the league in 1995? Have there been any new teams since then? That means the Bulls and Warriors played the same number of teams, I think. The expansion teams were certainly more green back then though.
Re: your first point, I've said for a while that while I don't love the Triangle for our Knicks, I do think that it would benefit the OKC. That team needs a system to get it easy shots. It seems like KD and Russ are fighting for every shot attempt, even against weaker competition sometimes. With some more discipline on offense, I think they could've won game 5 or 6.
The fact is they did win 3 games. Its not like the series was theirs to lose, Warriors are defending champ and 73 win team!!!
That shyt they do defies logic and is incredible.
choke? yeah, they have to take that label when your up 3-1. Warriors made adjustments and Thompson was amazing.
in the jayvee season a player can make mistakes and play with flaws and get away with it-- lets face it melo has made a career out of that-- but the deeper into the playoffs, every mistake is magnified, every flaw exposed. that's what crucibles do. taking bad shots are a major problem in westbrook's game. durant fell into this problem in game 6.
the playoffs are always best when the series seem like wars of attrition, especially ones that go the full seven games. hence the warriors didn't win so much as the thunder lost.
if durant stays i will be a bit surprised, as it means he has the faith that donovan can work with westbrook to harness his energy and get westbrook to tighten up his game.
i don't see it and i hope durant doesn't allow sentimentality to cloud his judgment.
TPercy wrote:NYKBocker wrote:I don't like the warriors. A bunch of arrogant fookers
And Westbrook and Durant arn't? No problem with having confidence and spirit. In fact, its a key component of a team's mental strength.
Westbrook yes. Durant I don't see as arrogant.
