How good could a Grant and KP pick and roll be?
Does it scare any of you that the answer is probably, "we won't find out til Phil is gone?"
Does it scare anyone that KP is a prototypical pick and pop big man and he won't be running that play til his 4th or 5th year in the league?
fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:my biggest concern with the perhaps obsession Phil has with all things triangular- we're going to struggle to find players that can get it, and we'd be better off running something easier that can let us focus on finding pure talent instead of triangular talent.Basketball and building a team is hard enough, now we're going to do so while juggling and standing on one foot.
how do you build with no blue print?
Why can't we run variations of the triangle, and adjust to the roster.
We get non jump shooting players, and try to turn them into jump shooters, before they master the art of penetrating, we get non penetrating players, and try to turn them into slashers, we got a lethal jump shooting big man, who your forcing him in the post, when he's no where near strong enough, we got starters coming off the bench, and 12th men starting, now you want an assistant coach to be your head coach, and a president that should be the head coach.
Nobody in this franchise (from front office to coach to players) have the correct role, and that's the biggest problem we currently have
adjust to the roster? OK.. who's skill set was underutilized last year? Lopez had an excellent year and the longer he played in the triangle the better he looked. 2nd half of the year Lopez 12ppg, 9rebs, 2blocks and .554 FG%, Melo had a career high in assists and let the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Derrick Williams may have resurrected his career. KP had a unicorn rookie season. I mean who are these guys your talking about? Maybe we should bring back Isiah... folks had more patience with him.When Phil traded away the future I will start the questions. I have yet to see him trading picks to get win now player to appease Melo. Last I checked we have KP
This. Afflalo didn't work out but he didn't cost the Knicks Will Barton, Thomas Robinson and a first rounder. Lopez, KP, and Grant seem like they are going to be fixtures in the Knicks rotation for the next few years. Phil needs to fix the back court.
This is my main issue with the team. People here keep bringing up how it took the Warriors 4-5 years to build around Steph. Agree. You know what they did? They amassed talent and then built the best system for that team.
Phil has picked the system and is picking talent based on that system up front. It's backwards and it is also limiting the talent he'll go after. And we've already seen it limit his coaching search.
"A smart general manager would see his personnel and coaching options and pick the people and system that would give the team the best chance to win. Jackson has picked his system and said to hell with everything else. Knicks fans are the ones who are going to pay the price for his stubbornness."
crzymdups wrote:This is my main issue with the team. People here keep bringing up how it took the Warriors 4-5 years to build around Steph. Agree. You know what they did? They amassed talent and then built the best system for that team. Phil has picked the system and is picking talent based on that system up front. It's backwards and it is also limiting the talent he'll go after. And we've already seen it limit his coaching search.
"A smart general manager would see his personnel and coaching options and pick the people and system that would give the team the best chance to win. Jackson has picked his system and said to hell with everything else. Knicks fans are the ones who are going to pay the price for his stubbornness."
he also needs more triangle sportswriters in NY so that they can sell this sh1t better.
crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:my biggest concern with the perhaps obsession Phil has with all things triangular- we're going to struggle to find players that can get it, and we'd be better off running something easier that can let us focus on finding pure talent instead of triangular talent.Basketball and building a team is hard enough, now we're going to do so while juggling and standing on one foot.
how do you build with no blue print?
Why can't we run variations of the triangle, and adjust to the roster.
We get non jump shooting players, and try to turn them into jump shooters, before they master the art of penetrating, we get non penetrating players, and try to turn them into slashers, we got a lethal jump shooting big man, who your forcing him in the post, when he's no where near strong enough, we got starters coming off the bench, and 12th men starting, now you want an assistant coach to be your head coach, and a president that should be the head coach.
Nobody in this franchise (from front office to coach to players) have the correct role, and that's the biggest problem we currently have
adjust to the roster? OK.. who's skill set was underutilized last year? Lopez had an excellent year and the longer he played in the triangle the better he looked. 2nd half of the year Lopez 12ppg, 9rebs, 2blocks and .554 FG%, Melo had a career high in assists and let the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Derrick Williams may have resurrected his career. KP had a unicorn rookie season. I mean who are these guys your talking about? Maybe we should bring back Isiah... folks had more patience with him.When Phil traded away the future I will start the questions. I have yet to see him trading picks to get win now player to appease Melo. Last I checked we have KP
That's the scary thing, Fish.
Phil brought in guys who were supposed to be Triangle guys. We were told heading into the season that the sky was the limit for that roster, now that they finally had Triangle guys. Now we're hearing again that the problem is that we don't have Triangle pieces.
I am fine with a rebuild, and admittedly this season sucks more because we don't have a 2016 pick which is not Phil's fault... but the logic behind the building, or rather lack of logic but singleminded approach to building this team makes me think it will never work.
Phil is not trying to build a good team. He's trying to build a team that will prove the Triangle is his legacy. Sure, if he's right, we win and that's great. But what if the Triangle isn't the answer for Melo and KP? Are we sacrificing the last years of Melo's prime and KP's development to prove something that maybe can't be proved?
Was it Kobe or the Triangle? Was it MJ or the Triangle? Phil is looking to go down swinging and clinging (haHA) to the idea that the Triangle is the one true path through not just the NBA, but life in general.
And frankly, his blaming everyone else over and over again and telling us all how stupid we are for not getting it... it's a little tired. I've watched a lot of basketball and I see much better, more efficient, responsive offensive systems on other teams.
with these players? With the Knicks? I don't tell anyone they are stupid for not getting it. The closest I would come to that is calling out someone for making broad sweeping conclusions with limited information which we are all working with. The one strong retort I will give your post is this: When did you become mreinman? Phil Jackson doesn't need to prove anything. He's got more rings than anyone. The player who hated him the most (Kobe) has been very vocal and point blank said he doesn't have titles without Phil. That notion is insane.. I suggests banishing it as it has no place in generating any kind of discussion. Phil's commitment to the triangle is because of results. Its because that system won him 11 rings with 3 different sets of players. Could it be that simple? Could it?
But what if the Triangle isn't the answer for Melo and KP? Are we sacrificing the last years of Melo's prime and KP's development to prove something that maybe can't be proved?
Sure... Phil can fail. Anyone can. Im ok with giving this guy and his system or whatever he brings a full chance. Who's next after Phil? 2 years is enough to rebuild a decade long broken franchise?
crzymdups wrote:How good could a Grant and KP pick and roll be?Does it scare any of you that the answer is probably, "we won't find out til Phil is gone?"
Does it scare anyone that KP is a prototypical pick and pop big man and he won't be running that play til his 4th or 5th year in the league?
we need upgrades in the backcourt, players who possess the requisite skills to run the system that jackson and rambis are instituting. it's nice that grant got playing time but as jackson alluded to in his last press conference, looking good and being good are two different things. the pick and roll is a play that emerges only after the offense has had around 12-14 seconds of a possession to execute the offense. there'll be plenty of opportunities to run pick and rolls every game, it just cannot be a priority. and it's funny that the deplorable defense of our backcourt never gets mentioned in all the complaining.
from a triangle-centric point of view, what fisher did with the triangle was clearly in half-measures, even if it yielded short-term positive results. half measures won't get you very far in the long run.
philosophically speaking, form trumps material, ie form (system) must be imposed on matter (personnel) if you want success. and yes, actual basketball skills come under the heading of "form," which is an echo of jackson saying he's in a "skills race."
crzymdups wrote:This is my main issue with the team. People here keep bringing up how it took the Warriors 4-5 years to build around Steph. Agree. You know what they did? They amassed talent and then built the best system for that team. Phil has picked the system and is picking talent based on that system up front. It's backwards and it is also limiting the talent he'll go after. And we've already seen it limit his coaching search.
"A smart general manager would see his personnel and coaching options and pick the people and system that would give the team the best chance to win. Jackson has picked his system and said to hell with everything else. Knicks fans are the ones who are going to pay the price for his stubbornness."
who are the building block players he's brought in since being here? Who has he whiffed on? Resigned Melo, signed Lopez, drafted KP/Grant. Considering what he's had to work with our future has gotten brighter? Who are these non triangle players that should be Knicks and aren't?
mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is my main issue with the team. People here keep bringing up how it took the Warriors 4-5 years to build around Steph. Agree. You know what they did? They amassed talent and then built the best system for that team. Phil has picked the system and is picking talent based on that system up front. It's backwards and it is also limiting the talent he'll go after. And we've already seen it limit his coaching search.
"A smart general manager would see his personnel and coaching options and pick the people and system that would give the team the best chance to win. Jackson has picked his system and said to hell with everything else. Knicks fans are the ones who are going to pay the price for his stubbornness."
he also needs more triangle sportswriters in NY so that they can sell this sh1t better.
your more entertaining whining about Briggs
CrushAlot wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:my biggest concern with the perhaps obsession Phil has with all things triangular- we're going to struggle to find players that can get it, and we'd be better off running something easier that can let us focus on finding pure talent instead of triangular talent.Basketball and building a team is hard enough, now we're going to do so while juggling and standing on one foot.
how do you build with no blue print?
Why can't we run variations of the triangle, and adjust to the roster.
We get non jump shooting players, and try to turn them into jump shooters, before they master the art of penetrating, we get non penetrating players, and try to turn them into slashers, we got a lethal jump shooting big man, who your forcing him in the post, when he's no where near strong enough, we got starters coming off the bench, and 12th men starting, now you want an assistant coach to be your head coach, and a president that should be the head coach.
Nobody in this franchise (from front office to coach to players) have the correct role, and that's the biggest problem we currently have
adjust to the roster? OK.. who's skill set was underutilized last year? Lopez had an excellent year and the longer he played in the triangle the better he looked. 2nd half of the year Lopez 12ppg, 9rebs, 2blocks and .554 FG%, Melo had a career high in assists and let the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Derrick Williams may have resurrected his career. KP had a unicorn rookie season. I mean who are these guys your talking about? Maybe we should bring back Isiah... folks had more patience with him.When Phil traded away the future I will start the questions. I have yet to see him trading picks to get win now player to appease Melo. Last I checked we have KP
This. Afflalo didn't work out but he didn't cost the Knicks Will Barton, Thomas Robinson and a first rounder. Lopez, KP, and Grant seem like they are going to be fixtures in the Knicks rotation for the next few years. Phil needs to fix the back court.
and if he does that's a damn fast rebuild. I am tempering my expectations but lets see. I still hold out hope that Grant is a bigtime player for us
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:my biggest concern with the perhaps obsession Phil has with all things triangular- we're going to struggle to find players that can get it, and we'd be better off running something easier that can let us focus on finding pure talent instead of triangular talent.Basketball and building a team is hard enough, now we're going to do so while juggling and standing on one foot.
how do you build with no blue print?
Why can't we run variations of the triangle, and adjust to the roster.
We get non jump shooting players, and try to turn them into jump shooters, before they master the art of penetrating, we get non penetrating players, and try to turn them into slashers, we got a lethal jump shooting big man, who your forcing him in the post, when he's no where near strong enough, we got starters coming off the bench, and 12th men starting, now you want an assistant coach to be your head coach, and a president that should be the head coach.
Nobody in this franchise (from front office to coach to players) have the correct role, and that's the biggest problem we currently have
adjust to the roster? OK.. who's skill set was underutilized last year? Lopez had an excellent year and the longer he played in the triangle the better he looked. 2nd half of the year Lopez 12ppg, 9rebs, 2blocks and .554 FG%, Melo had a career high in assists and let the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Derrick Williams may have resurrected his career. KP had a unicorn rookie season. I mean who are these guys your talking about? Maybe we should bring back Isiah... folks had more patience with him.When Phil traded away the future I will start the questions. I have yet to see him trading picks to get win now player to appease Melo. Last I checked we have KP
That's the scary thing, Fish.
Phil brought in guys who were supposed to be Triangle guys. We were told heading into the season that the sky was the limit for that roster, now that they finally had Triangle guys. Now we're hearing again that the problem is that we don't have Triangle pieces.
I am fine with a rebuild, and admittedly this season sucks more because we don't have a 2016 pick which is not Phil's fault... but the logic behind the building, or rather lack of logic but singleminded approach to building this team makes me think it will never work.
Phil is not trying to build a good team. He's trying to build a team that will prove the Triangle is his legacy. Sure, if he's right, we win and that's great. But what if the Triangle isn't the answer for Melo and KP? Are we sacrificing the last years of Melo's prime and KP's development to prove something that maybe can't be proved?
Was it Kobe or the Triangle? Was it MJ or the Triangle? Phil is looking to go down swinging and clinging (haHA) to the idea that the Triangle is the one true path through not just the NBA, but life in general.
And frankly, his blaming everyone else over and over again and telling us all how stupid we are for not getting it... it's a little tired. I've watched a lot of basketball and I see much better, more efficient, responsive offensive systems on other teams.
with these players? With the Knicks? I don't tell anyone they are stupid for not getting it. The closest I would come to that is calling out someone for making broad sweeping conclusions with limited information which we are all working with. The one strong retort I will give your post is this: When did you become mreinman? Phil Jackson doesn't need to prove anything. He's got more rings than anyone. The player who hated him the most (Kobe) has been very vocal and point blank said he doesn't have titles without Phil. That notion is insane.. I suggests banishing it as it has no place in generating any kind of discussion. Phil's commitment to the triangle is because of results. Its because that system won him 11 rings with 3 different sets of players. Could it be that simple? Could it?But what if the Triangle isn't the answer for Melo and KP? Are we sacrificing the last years of Melo's prime and KP's development to prove something that maybe can't be proved?
Sure... Phil can fail. Anyone can. Im ok with giving this guy and his system or whatever he brings a full chance. Who's next after Phil? 2 years is enough to rebuild a decade long broken franchise?
thanks for the shout out. Publicity is publicity.
Phil does not have to prove that he is a great coach ... even the dummys are not dumb enough to miss that.
Phil does have to prove that he is a good GM and that he knows better than everyone else and that the triangle can win on a team like Charlotte without super guper stars.
So far, he has proven that maybe he was just a freakin damn good coach just like MJ was a freak of a player who understands more than we will ever dream to know yet he can't make a basketball move for sh1t.
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:my biggest concern with the perhaps obsession Phil has with all things triangular- we're going to struggle to find players that can get it, and we'd be better off running something easier that can let us focus on finding pure talent instead of triangular talent.Basketball and building a team is hard enough, now we're going to do so while juggling and standing on one foot.
how do you build with no blue print?
Why can't we run variations of the triangle, and adjust to the roster.
We get non jump shooting players, and try to turn them into jump shooters, before they master the art of penetrating, we get non penetrating players, and try to turn them into slashers, we got a lethal jump shooting big man, who your forcing him in the post, when he's no where near strong enough, we got starters coming off the bench, and 12th men starting, now you want an assistant coach to be your head coach, and a president that should be the head coach.
Nobody in this franchise (from front office to coach to players) have the correct role, and that's the biggest problem we currently have
adjust to the roster? OK.. who's skill set was underutilized last year? Lopez had an excellent year and the longer he played in the triangle the better he looked. 2nd half of the year Lopez 12ppg, 9rebs, 2blocks and .554 FG%, Melo had a career high in assists and let the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Derrick Williams may have resurrected his career. KP had a unicorn rookie season. I mean who are these guys your talking about? Maybe we should bring back Isiah... folks had more patience with him.When Phil traded away the future I will start the questions. I have yet to see him trading picks to get win now player to appease Melo. Last I checked we have KP
That's the scary thing, Fish.
Phil brought in guys who were supposed to be Triangle guys. We were told heading into the season that the sky was the limit for that roster, now that they finally had Triangle guys. Now we're hearing again that the problem is that we don't have Triangle pieces.
I am fine with a rebuild, and admittedly this season sucks more because we don't have a 2016 pick which is not Phil's fault... but the logic behind the building, or rather lack of logic but singleminded approach to building this team makes me think it will never work.
Phil is not trying to build a good team. He's trying to build a team that will prove the Triangle is his legacy. Sure, if he's right, we win and that's great. But what if the Triangle isn't the answer for Melo and KP? Are we sacrificing the last years of Melo's prime and KP's development to prove something that maybe can't be proved?
Was it Kobe or the Triangle? Was it MJ or the Triangle? Phil is looking to go down swinging and clinging (haHA) to the idea that the Triangle is the one true path through not just the NBA, but life in general.
And frankly, his blaming everyone else over and over again and telling us all how stupid we are for not getting it... it's a little tired. I've watched a lot of basketball and I see much better, more efficient, responsive offensive systems on other teams.
with these players? With the Knicks? I don't tell anyone they are stupid for not getting it. The closest I would come to that is calling out someone for making broad sweeping conclusions with limited information which we are all working with. The one strong retort I will give your post is this: When did you become mreinman? Phil Jackson doesn't need to prove anything. He's got more rings than anyone. The player who hated him the most (Kobe) has been very vocal and point blank said he doesn't have titles without Phil. That notion is insane.. I suggests banishing it as it has no place in generating any kind of discussion. Phil's commitment to the triangle is because of results. Its because that system won him 11 rings with 3 different sets of players. Could it be that simple? Could it?But what if the Triangle isn't the answer for Melo and KP? Are we sacrificing the last years of Melo's prime and KP's development to prove something that maybe can't be proved?
Sure... Phil can fail. Anyone can. Im ok with giving this guy and his system or whatever he brings a full chance. Who's next after Phil? 2 years is enough to rebuild a decade long broken franchise?
The timing is maybe unfair. Perhaps I should give it more time. But I have been watching this Triangle for two full seasons and it has been dire. The Fisher thing makes it all seem much worse somehow.
Also, if the system is so good, why has it failed completely EVERYWHERE else? Phil's coaching tree is barren. Maybe only he can coach it? But he's not coaching here.
You can say all the guys below didn't have players, not fair no talent... but look at Pat Riley's coaching tree sometime. Jeff Van Gundy, Tom Thibeau, Steve Clifford, Erik Spolestra, Doc Rivers, Stan Van Gundy... I mean... come on.
fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:my biggest concern with the perhaps obsession Phil has with all things triangular- we're going to struggle to find players that can get it, and we'd be better off running something easier that can let us focus on finding pure talent instead of triangular talent.Basketball and building a team is hard enough, now we're going to do so while juggling and standing on one foot.
how do you build with no blue print?
Why can't we run variations of the triangle, and adjust to the roster.
We get non jump shooting players, and try to turn them into jump shooters, before they master the art of penetrating, we get non penetrating players, and try to turn them into slashers, we got a lethal jump shooting big man, who your forcing him in the post, when he's no where near strong enough, we got starters coming off the bench, and 12th men starting, now you want an assistant coach to be your head coach, and a president that should be the head coach.
Nobody in this franchise (from front office to coach to players) have the correct role, and that's the biggest problem we currently have
adjust to the roster? OK.. who's skill set was underutilized last year? Lopez had an excellent year and the longer he played in the triangle the better he looked. 2nd half of the year Lopez 12ppg, 9rebs, 2blocks and .554 FG%, Melo had a career high in assists and let the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Derrick Williams may have resurrected his career. KP had a unicorn rookie season. I mean who are these guys your talking about? Maybe we should bring back Isiah... folks had more patience with him.When Phil traded away the future I will start the questions. I have yet to see him trading picks to get win now player to appease Melo. Last I checked we have KP
This. Afflalo didn't work out but he didn't cost the Knicks Will Barton, Thomas Robinson and a first rounder. Lopez, KP, and Grant seem like they are going to be fixtures in the Knicks rotation for the next few years. Phil needs to fix the back court.
and if he does that's a damn fast rebuild. I am tempering my expectations but lets see. I still hold out hope that Grant is a bigtime player for us
keep that sweet grant dream alive ... I am holding out hope that wroten will save the chise.
crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:my biggest concern with the perhaps obsession Phil has with all things triangular- we're going to struggle to find players that can get it, and we'd be better off running something easier that can let us focus on finding pure talent instead of triangular talent.Basketball and building a team is hard enough, now we're going to do so while juggling and standing on one foot.
how do you build with no blue print?
Why can't we run variations of the triangle, and adjust to the roster.
We get non jump shooting players, and try to turn them into jump shooters, before they master the art of penetrating, we get non penetrating players, and try to turn them into slashers, we got a lethal jump shooting big man, who your forcing him in the post, when he's no where near strong enough, we got starters coming off the bench, and 12th men starting, now you want an assistant coach to be your head coach, and a president that should be the head coach.
Nobody in this franchise (from front office to coach to players) have the correct role, and that's the biggest problem we currently have
adjust to the roster? OK.. who's skill set was underutilized last year? Lopez had an excellent year and the longer he played in the triangle the better he looked. 2nd half of the year Lopez 12ppg, 9rebs, 2blocks and .554 FG%, Melo had a career high in assists and let the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Derrick Williams may have resurrected his career. KP had a unicorn rookie season. I mean who are these guys your talking about? Maybe we should bring back Isiah... folks had more patience with him.When Phil traded away the future I will start the questions. I have yet to see him trading picks to get win now player to appease Melo. Last I checked we have KP
That's the scary thing, Fish.
Phil brought in guys who were supposed to be Triangle guys. We were told heading into the season that the sky was the limit for that roster, now that they finally had Triangle guys. Now we're hearing again that the problem is that we don't have Triangle pieces.
I am fine with a rebuild, and admittedly this season sucks more because we don't have a 2016 pick which is not Phil's fault... but the logic behind the building, or rather lack of logic but singleminded approach to building this team makes me think it will never work.
Phil is not trying to build a good team. He's trying to build a team that will prove the Triangle is his legacy. Sure, if he's right, we win and that's great. But what if the Triangle isn't the answer for Melo and KP? Are we sacrificing the last years of Melo's prime and KP's development to prove something that maybe can't be proved?
Was it Kobe or the Triangle? Was it MJ or the Triangle? Phil is looking to go down swinging and clinging (haHA) to the idea that the Triangle is the one true path through not just the NBA, but life in general.
And frankly, his blaming everyone else over and over again and telling us all how stupid we are for not getting it... it's a little tired. I've watched a lot of basketball and I see much better, more efficient, responsive offensive systems on other teams.
with these players? With the Knicks? I don't tell anyone they are stupid for not getting it. The closest I would come to that is calling out someone for making broad sweeping conclusions with limited information which we are all working with. The one strong retort I will give your post is this: When did you become mreinman? Phil Jackson doesn't need to prove anything. He's got more rings than anyone. The player who hated him the most (Kobe) has been very vocal and point blank said he doesn't have titles without Phil. That notion is insane.. I suggests banishing it as it has no place in generating any kind of discussion. Phil's commitment to the triangle is because of results. Its because that system won him 11 rings with 3 different sets of players. Could it be that simple? Could it?But what if the Triangle isn't the answer for Melo and KP? Are we sacrificing the last years of Melo's prime and KP's development to prove something that maybe can't be proved?
Sure... Phil can fail. Anyone can. Im ok with giving this guy and his system or whatever he brings a full chance. Who's next after Phil? 2 years is enough to rebuild a decade long broken franchise?
The timing is maybe unfair. Perhaps I should give it more time. But I have been watching this Triangle for two full seasons and it has been dire. The Fisher thing makes it all seem much worse somehow.
Also, if the system is so good, why has it failed completely EVERYWHERE else? Phil's coaching tree is barren. Maybe only he can coach it? But he's not coaching here.
You can say all the guys below didn't have players, not fair no talent... but look at Pat Riley's coaching tree sometime. Jeff Van Gundy, Tom Thibeau, Steve Clifford, Erik Spolestra, Doc Rivers, Stan Van Gundy... I mean... come on.
but does pat the rat have 11 rings? BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
If I had a time machine, I would go back and kill baby Hitler. Save JFK.
Then I would tell the Knicks to give Pat Riley full autonomy to run the basketball side of the operation in 1995 and I'd beg them not to sell to Dolan.
Can you imagine how different the past 20 years would've been if the Knicks just let Riley be Coach/President?
Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.
Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat. Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat. Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
That's fair. Hey, bright side if they suck next season, we get a draft pick.
I wouldn't mind this season quite so much if we hadn't done the Bargnani trade and we were swapping picks with Denver at the 2016 draft.
BUT, if they suck next season, I sort of wonder if Phil opts out and bounces to LA to teach Luke to use the Force...em, I mean Triangle to coach the Lakers.
martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat. Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
Only they aren't planning to adapt to their talent. They're planning to make their talent adapt to their system.
crzymdups wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat. Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
That's fair. Hey, bright side if they suck next season, we get a draft pick.
I wouldn't mind this season quite so much if we hadn't done the Bargnani trade and we were swapping picks with Denver at the 2016 draft.
BUT, if they suck next season, I sort of wonder if Phil opts out and bounces to LA to teach Luke to use the Force...em, I mean Triangle to coach the Lakers.
No way Luke wants phil on top of him striangling his team.
crzymdups wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat. Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
That's fair. Hey, bright side if they suck next season, we get a draft pick.
I wouldn't mind this season quite so much if we hadn't done the Bargnani trade and we were swapping picks with Denver at the 2016 draft.
BUT, if they suck next season, I sort of wonder if Phil opts out and bounces to LA to teach Luke to use the Force...em, I mean Triangle to coach the Lakers.
this may be an age thing, but i imagine most of the guys on this and most other forums were not old enough to remember or participate as fans the last time the knicks won it all. and no, the ewing era doesn't count.
i mention this because, having been just old enough, i know how thrilling it was to see the knicks win it all-- and the way they played was superb. and phil jackson was a pretty big contributor off that knicks bench. he was all elbows and grit, a real pain in the butt for opponents. having won two of his rings as a player, moreover with the knicks, i have to believe his love for and devotion to the knicks franchise is deeper than you and many other pessimists will give him credit for.
although his persona is difficult if not outright grating, i still trust that his love for the knicks runs deep, far deeper than dolan.
