Knicks · Knicks lack pieces for the triangle. (page 6)
mreinman wrote:See, I not only think this is fair but its where I stand. Every player on this roster is Phil's now.fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
I want to see at least very strong improvement by the end of this season. If they are playing .500 ball and making/taking positive steps, I would be ok with that.
If we have another season of crap and have to make a ton of excuses for our crappy coach and why the triangle is still holding us back then I will not be happy at all.
I also dont want to be a better team short term by doing something really stupid and desperate like giving Conley or Derozen max money.
I would expect the Knicks to be in the .500 range with internal improvements alone. Willy might help. Wroten might help. Grant might step it up like he finished those last couple games. Early might help. Lopez's 2nd half was 12ppg, 9rebs 55% FGs and 2 blocks and he played 82. Porzingis should be better. Melo set a career high in assists but shot very poorly. That can get better. Can KOQ improve his footwork? Do we resign Lance? The Knicks can take good steps forward by just all showing up healthy and picking up on the good they accomplished last year.
I don't have a problem maxing out Derozan or Batum. I would include Conely if he was healthy. I think we have a good core and those 3 players both move the needle and fit needs and are a 4 year good fit. Add one of those 3 with MElo, KP, Lopez you have to be a playoff team. During that stretch you develop KP and start grooming guys who may take a few years but you develop them. In 3-4 years when Conley, Melo and Lopez are older and KP is a star you have some part around him and continuity. Long term thoughts...
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
You realize Melo never missed the playoffs in his life until Phil came here, right?
Phil shouldn't get a medal for getting a Melo team to the playoffs, he should get a passing grade.
Why do we have to keep pretending that it wasn't a good thing that Phil purged the roster and started over? This last 2 seasons were a necessary part of the process. You take back the losing and you erase KP! This was the right thing for this franchise and has nothing to do with Melo. We are no longer only a win now team. This team is about the future more than just what they did this season or next. We should all be happy about that.
Heading into this past season you said they'd clearly win 45 games and anyone who didn't agree was a hater. Now we're not a win now team anymore? I thought the only issue was the backcourt after you backed off that 45 win prediction?
Lots of people here thought they had talent to win 45 games this past season. I did, too. Why didn't they? Bad coaching that got much worse when the team doubled down on the Triangle by firing Fisher and hiring Rambis.
If you thought that Phil purged the roster and started over, why did you predict 45 wins this season? I thought they'd make the playoffs and I am pretty disappointed with how they didn't. Which was shitty coaching and sticking to the Triangle even though the Triangle clearly wasn't the best system for this team.
Phil did purge the roster from the one he inherited. He then drafted KP because of that. My belief that the team could win 45 games this year doesn't mean he hadn't rebuilt the roster. That belief was based on a hope that the team would get better as the season progressed. I couldn't predict any of the untimely injuries to Melo, LT and KP in particular that came at a bad time for the team. They were doing well up until that happened and I believe it derailed the progress of the team. I also had hoped for Jerian to adjust much faster than he did this year. I felt that if he could play a meaningful role along with Gallo it could help to propel this team.
The only part of the team that really lived up to my predictions were the bigs. Gallo fell off of his strong start as did AA. Losing LT was a huge hit to the team defense. I felt that at the point where the team was at 20-20 and even at 22-22 they still had a chance to reach our predictions, but as I said Melo missed several games at that time as did LT and then KP. Fish seemed to struggle from that point as well. It was a fragile success and then the schedule also got tougher at that very same time. They needed to be healthy and in sync in order to make it thru that stretch.
You know this wasn't a typical rebuild where you have nothing except a recent top draft pick. That's why we could expect a bit more from the team despite the rebuild. It wasn't about the double down on the Triangle IMO. I'm sure that caused some degree of adjustment but they needed more from certain players and with AA pouting and LT missing games along with KP that played a part as well. It's not as simple as just saying it was the coach.
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:cmon man.... Phil took over a 37 win non playoff team that was really a terrible team until Amare's PEDs kicked in and they finished 15-5 over their last 20. That team was a Led Zeppelin. Maybe he should have gotten more for Tyson and or the Clev guys but the cubbard was pretty damn bare and didn't Melo just have his best season playing in this system? Career high assists? Do you remember the dadMelo threads? Is that really ancient history? Or did our best player get hurt prompting a collapse, followed by a lot of guys getting hurt followed by the team just running out of gas? Its all bad? We saw no good? Nothing at all that makes you think lets build on that?fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
You realize Melo never missed the playoffs in his life until Phil came here, right?
Phil shouldn't get a medal for getting a Melo team to the playoffs, he should get a passing grade.
We both predicted around 45 wins and playoffs, if I remember correctly.
The Fisher firing was so short-sighted and dumb. The Rambis hire is even worse. Installing him as full-time coach is just too far.
I saw progress under Fisher. I saw regression under Rambis. The Rambis hiring full time will be a big setback imho.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.
We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
The minute Tom Thibs sign up with mini, they instantly gained cred and have already been consider a playoff team. you keep on believing that a coaches impact is minor. when you have the most dominate big man in the game, and the most lethal perimeter player on the planet and you can only make it to the 2nd round, that a utter failure in a major way, which is why he was considered for the head coaching job then.
There is a big difference in semi finals to winning a championship..Rambis is not an avg NBA head Coach, he's well below avg
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
The minute Tom Thibs sign up with mini, they instantly gained cred and have already been consider a playoff team. you keep on believing that a coaches impact is minor. when you have the most dominate big man in the game, and the most lethal perimeter player on the planet and you can only make it to the 2nd round, that a utter failure in a major way, which is why he was considered for the head coaching job then.
There is a big difference in semi finals to winning a championship..Rambis is not an avg NBA head Coach, he's well below avg
My point has been that the average NBA coach has little impact on players. Only a very few coaches have been shown to have a significant impact. Thibs is a good coach. What is in question is just how much of a difference there is between average coach, good coach and great coach. Statistically the difference between average coach and good coach is not as great as people think.
The greatest factor is the talent you have unless you have one of the great coaches like Pop or Phil.
Thibs is pretty good but is he great? We don't know yet. I had no problem with Thibs or Blatt for that matter. Phil didn't want Thibs for whatever reasons. We'll see who else he has in mind besides Rambis, in time. This is not a situation where Thibs was the only guy who could do the job.
They need a post player who can pass and shoot a little - Pau Gasol and Al Horford are free agents who would be big upgrades over RoLo (Who I like)
They need a wing or guard who can create his shot, pass and score better than Afflalo - Conley, Batum and DeRozan are free agents and big upgrades. With Conley you can likely start Grant at 2, since he has the size to play that position.
Assuming D-Will and Afflalo opt out, the Knicks have enough money to sign one of the above mentioned players, and get a quality role player at another spot. There's some room to grow here, and that's not counting the huge importance of Porzingis and Grant improving as players.
nyknickzingis wrote:Obviously they lack pieces.They need a post player who can pass and shoot a little - Pau Gasol and Al Horford are free agents who would be big upgrades over RoLo (Who I like)
They need a wing or guard who can create his shot, pass and score better than Afflalo - Conley, Batum and DeRozan are free agents and big upgrades. With Conley you can likely start Grant at 2, since he has the size to play that position.Assuming D-Will and Afflalo opt out, the Knicks have enough money to sign one of the above mentioned players, and get a quality role player at another spot. There's some room to grow here, and that's not counting the huge importance of Porzingis and Grant improving as players.
I think Pau is perfect. Better than usual vet big who we know has the tools to excel in the Triangle.
Phil will have to get some help for the backcourt. We know the names out there. As you mention internal growth will also be important.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.
mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.
It's perfectly reasonable logic based in part on research and just living long enough to have seen a boatload of basketball. Average NBA coaches are mostly a product of the players they have. Their impact is negligible.
Phil did take over some already good teams but he made them better. He also had teams that weren't ready made. Statistically Phil is one of the few coaches that you can say actually had a measurable impact on his teams.
My point was more about the average NBA coach for which no statistical evidence shows they have much of any impact. If they have talent, those players for the most part perform as expected based on their career performance under other coaches. No change that can be attributed to the coach.
There are always outliers but on the whole nothing worth talking about.
Just think about all the coaches you've seen over the years and how many of them can you really point to and say they had a measurable impact? Of those men there are an even smaller elite set that we consider great coaches. All coaches need talent to win but some coaches are able to really get the most out of their talent.
Rambis with help from Phil is probably no worse than any other average NBA coach. The talent will be what most dictates how successful he'll be.
nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.
It's perfectly reasonable logic based in part on research and just living long enough to have seen a boatload of basketball. Average NBA coaches are mostly a product of the players they have. Their impact is negligible.Phil did take over some already good teams but he made them better. He also had teams that weren't ready made. Statistically Phil is one of the few coaches that you can say actually had a measurable impact on his teams.
My point was more about the average NBA coach for which no statistical evidence shows they have much of any impact. If they have talent, those players for the most part perform as expected based on their career performance under other coaches. No change that can be attributed to the coach.
There are always outliers but on the whole nothing worth talking about.Just think about all the coaches you've seen over the years and how many of them can you really point to and say they had a measurable impact? Of those men there are an even smaller elite set that we consider great coaches. All coaches need talent to win but some coaches are able to really get the most out of their talent.
Rambis with help from Phil is probably no worse than any other average NBA coach. The talent will be what most dictates how successful he'll be.
rambis sucks no need to make up theories about how that is ok because the coach is mostly a negligible impact.
what coach won who was not considered an excellent coach? Maybe Rudy T but that is rare.
Rambis is a tool and we all know that. If he gets the job and the knicks under perform get ready for the evil media onslaught that of course you will say is undeserved.
mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.
It's perfectly reasonable logic based in part on research and just living long enough to have seen a boatload of basketball. Average NBA coaches are mostly a product of the players they have. Their impact is negligible.Phil did take over some already good teams but he made them better. He also had teams that weren't ready made. Statistically Phil is one of the few coaches that you can say actually had a measurable impact on his teams.
My point was more about the average NBA coach for which no statistical evidence shows they have much of any impact. If they have talent, those players for the most part perform as expected based on their career performance under other coaches. No change that can be attributed to the coach.
There are always outliers but on the whole nothing worth talking about.Just think about all the coaches you've seen over the years and how many of them can you really point to and say they had a measurable impact? Of those men there are an even smaller elite set that we consider great coaches. All coaches need talent to win but some coaches are able to really get the most out of their talent.
Rambis with help from Phil is probably no worse than any other average NBA coach. The talent will be what most dictates how successful he'll be.
rambis sucks no need to make up theories about how that is ok because the coach is mostly a negligible impact.
what coach won who was not considered an excellent coach? Maybe Rudy T but that is rare.
Rambis is a tool and we all know that. If he gets the job and the knicks under perform get ready for the evil media onslaught that of course you will say is undeserved.
Come on man, you don't wanna go on record that Regardless of who Phil brings in that Rambis would mess it up and not win games. That would be stupid cuz lots of coaches win based mostly on the talent they have. Let's see what talent Phil will be able add this summer.
nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.
It's perfectly reasonable logic based in part on research and just living long enough to have seen a boatload of basketball. Average NBA coaches are mostly a product of the players they have. Their impact is negligible.Phil did take over some already good teams but he made them better. He also had teams that weren't ready made. Statistically Phil is one of the few coaches that you can say actually had a measurable impact on his teams.
My point was more about the average NBA coach for which no statistical evidence shows they have much of any impact. If they have talent, those players for the most part perform as expected based on their career performance under other coaches. No change that can be attributed to the coach.
There are always outliers but on the whole nothing worth talking about.Just think about all the coaches you've seen over the years and how many of them can you really point to and say they had a measurable impact? Of those men there are an even smaller elite set that we consider great coaches. All coaches need talent to win but some coaches are able to really get the most out of their talent.
Rambis with help from Phil is probably no worse than any other average NBA coach. The talent will be what most dictates how successful he'll be.
rambis sucks no need to make up theories about how that is ok because the coach is mostly a negligible impact.
what coach won who was not considered an excellent coach? Maybe Rudy T but that is rare.
Rambis is a tool and we all know that. If he gets the job and the knicks under perform get ready for the evil media onslaught that of course you will say is undeserved.
Come on man, you don't wanna go on record that Regardless of who Phil brings in that Rambis would mess it up and not win games. That would be stupid cuz lots of coaches win based mostly on the talent they have. Let's see what talent Phil will be able add this summer.
I did not say that please reread. I said that he is a tool and if they fail with him as the coach then sh1ts gonna get really ugly for phil.
Yes I will go on record stating the above and will also go on record stating that you will be in full blown defense of whatever happens.
Wroten
Grant
Melo
KP
Rolo
Bench
Lance
D-Will
E.Turner
Galloway
Willy
KO
Jose
It's not a great team, but if they figure out that triangle they could compete for a late seed. E.Turner is the exact type of versatile player that Phil system needs too.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
You realize Melo never missed the playoffs in his life until Phil came here, right?
Phil shouldn't get a medal for getting a Melo team to the playoffs, he should get a passing grade.
Why do we have to keep pretending that it wasn't a good thing that Phil purged the roster and started over? This last 2 seasons were a necessary part of the process. You take back the losing and you erase KP! This was the right thing for this franchise and has nothing to do with Melo. We are no longer only a win now team. This team is about the future more than just what they did this season or next. We should all be happy about that.
Heading into this past season you said they'd clearly win 45 games and anyone who didn't agree was a hater. Now we're not a win now team anymore? I thought the only issue was the backcourt after you backed off that 45 win prediction?
Lots of people here thought they had talent to win 45 games this past season. I did, too. Why didn't they? Bad coaching that got much worse when the team doubled down on the Triangle by firing Fisher and hiring Rambis.
If you thought that Phil purged the roster and started over, why did you predict 45 wins this season? I thought they'd make the playoffs and I am pretty disappointed with how they didn't. Which was shitty coaching and sticking to the Triangle even though the Triangle clearly wasn't the best system for this team.
i used win shares to come up with my prediction and i missed by a couple of games. in the thread below i said 32-34 wins but then in other threads i said 34 wins is likely. i include the thread we had here because i believe that using the advanced numbers available anyone should be able to arrive at a reasonable prediction. low to mid-30s was reasonable.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...
as to the upcoming season, we'll have to see what happens this summer before any expectations can be set, although i do agree sight unseen that a .500 record is a feasible goal.
mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.
It's perfectly reasonable logic based in part on research and just living long enough to have seen a boatload of basketball. Average NBA coaches are mostly a product of the players they have. Their impact is negligible.Phil did take over some already good teams but he made them better. He also had teams that weren't ready made. Statistically Phil is one of the few coaches that you can say actually had a measurable impact on his teams.
My point was more about the average NBA coach for which no statistical evidence shows they have much of any impact. If they have talent, those players for the most part perform as expected based on their career performance under other coaches. No change that can be attributed to the coach.
There are always outliers but on the whole nothing worth talking about.Just think about all the coaches you've seen over the years and how many of them can you really point to and say they had a measurable impact? Of those men there are an even smaller elite set that we consider great coaches. All coaches need talent to win but some coaches are able to really get the most out of their talent.
Rambis with help from Phil is probably no worse than any other average NBA coach. The talent will be what most dictates how successful he'll be.
rambis sucks no need to make up theories about how that is ok because the coach is mostly a negligible impact.
what coach won who was not considered an excellent coach? Maybe Rudy T but that is rare.
Rambis is a tool and we all know that. If he gets the job and the knicks under perform get ready for the evil media onslaught that of course you will say is undeserved.
Is M.Brown considered an excellent coach?? How bout E.Spoelstra who won with Lebron, Wade, Bosh and a team full of players that could start on some teams but chose Miami so they can win a championship but now his teams look meh?? Is Kerr an excellent coach when even Luke a guy who's never been a head coach won with that team?? How bout D.Rivers who was horrible with the Magic but when you give him teams FULL of talent he can win, is he excellent?? I've only named some of the really big names and i could keep going on with other coaches that have won in the NBA but aren't even close to being considered EXCELLENT coaches. Hahaha
mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?martin wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
This
This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.
So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.
he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.
That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.
Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.
just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it
No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.
Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.
well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.
It's perfectly reasonable logic based in part on research and just living long enough to have seen a boatload of basketball. Average NBA coaches are mostly a product of the players they have. Their impact is negligible.Phil did take over some already good teams but he made them better. He also had teams that weren't ready made. Statistically Phil is one of the few coaches that you can say actually had a measurable impact on his teams.
My point was more about the average NBA coach for which no statistical evidence shows they have much of any impact. If they have talent, those players for the most part perform as expected based on their career performance under other coaches. No change that can be attributed to the coach.
There are always outliers but on the whole nothing worth talking about.Just think about all the coaches you've seen over the years and how many of them can you really point to and say they had a measurable impact? Of those men there are an even smaller elite set that we consider great coaches. All coaches need talent to win but some coaches are able to really get the most out of their talent.
Rambis with help from Phil is probably no worse than any other average NBA coach. The talent will be what most dictates how successful he'll be.
rambis sucks no need to make up theories about how that is ok because the coach is mostly a negligible impact.
what coach won who was not considered an excellent coach? Maybe Rudy T but that is rare.
Rambis is a tool and we all know that. If he gets the job and the knicks under perform get ready for the evil media onslaught that of course you will say is undeserved.
Come on man, you don't wanna go on record that Regardless of who Phil brings in that Rambis would mess it up and not win games. That would be stupid cuz lots of coaches win based mostly on the talent they have. Let's see what talent Phil will be able add this summer.
I did not say that please reread. I said that he is a tool and if they fail with him as the coach then sh1ts gonna get really ugly for phil.
Yes I will go on record stating the above and will also go on record stating that you will be in full blown defense of whatever happens.
If Phil is able to get him some talent and they have to buy into the system then Rambis will be just fine and will win games but without talent then of course it will be hard to win and be a playoff team. The talent matters much more than who the head coach is.
mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:dk7th wrote:crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.
Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.
It's not really that complicated.
the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.
that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.
That's fair. Hey, bright side if they suck next season, we get a draft pick.
I wouldn't mind this season quite so much if we hadn't done the Bargnani trade and we were swapping picks with Denver at the 2016 draft.
BUT, if they suck next season, I sort of wonder if Phil opts out and bounces to LA to teach Luke to use the Force...em, I mean Triangle to coach the Lakers.
this may be an age thing, but i imagine most of the guys on this and most other forums were not old enough to remember or participate as fans the last time the knicks won it all. and no, the ewing era doesn't count.
i mention this because, having been just old enough, i know how thrilling it was to see the knicks win it all-- and the way they played was superb. and phil jackson was a pretty big contributor off that knicks bench. he was all elbows and grit, a real pain in the butt for opponents. having won two of his rings as a player, moreover with the knicks, i have to believe his love for and devotion to the knicks franchise is deeper than you and many other pessimists will give him credit for.
although his persona is difficult if not outright grating, i still trust that his love for the knicks runs deep, far deeper than dolan.
so you are blinded by love. Maybe you can't see this as clearly since you have this connection to him that some of us are not stuck with?
You seem to often pick sides going with anger/love vs. logic and a detachment view.
Some are so blinded by hate/the value of negativity, that they can't see the water for the trees. Or accept the value of history. Fish is right; you are funnier when fighting with Briggs.
Short-sighted retinal detachment can lend itself to a horrible view of things.
I honestly believe that Phil does have a deep and abiding interest in that 613 hanging from the rafters...things Dolan truly could probably care less about.