Knicks · what should have Phil done and what should he do now? (page 2)

I think when you are 70 and making 15 mm you should be concentrating on getting as much as s as possible.

EnySpree wrote:I can't complain about anything Phil has done. I see the Tyson trade is still a big deal with yall but could Tyson fit what we're trying to do? Absolutely not. Tyson leadership was a myth. He proved that here, he also proved that in his second Dallas stint and the Phoenix stint. He's a liability on offense that can't score outside of a clean lane on a pick and roll. That to me sums it up. Felton almost did 3 and a half years in jail on a gun charge.... why is this still something that's talked about?

Phil had to clean house. He got rid of Shump and JR for nothing because it was more important that they leave immediately than holding on to them. Both are cancerous players to a rebuilding team. Phil did just that. We don't get KP without losing all those games. Mission accomplished in my opinion.

Phil signs Robin Lopez and established a foundation for this off season. We have a blueprint to show guys where they can fit in. What more do you want?

This makes so much sense. Tyson doesn't fit the system. He is a PnR vertical spacing Center that would not get the PnR touches to excel. However, the next year you try to bring in a similar player on a max contract in DeAndre Jordan. It's just a bunch of contradictions in Phil's reasoning.

Tyson has Health issues and may break down rapidly, okay let's trade him for an even Older player in Jose who has had numerous health issues and rarely ever helped his team win.

Next line of thinking was lets get rid of a locker room cancer but Dalembert had his locker room issues and guess what he did in NY too. So they released him for nothing similar to how they could have released Felton

It's not about Keeping Tyson or Felton it is about maximizing every asset you have when you are rebuilding. Also it is okay to admit Phil made mistakes.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I can't complain about anything Phil has done. I see the Tyson trade is still a big deal with yall but could Tyson fit what we're trying to do? Absolutely not. Tyson leadership was a myth. He proved that here, he also proved that in his second Dallas stint and the Phoenix stint. He's a liability on offense that can't score outside of a clean lane on a pick and roll. That to me sums it up. Felton almost did 3 and a half years in jail on a gun charge.... why is this still something that's talked about?

Phil had to clean house. He got rid of Shump and JR for nothing because it was more important that they leave immediately than holding on to them. Both are cancerous players to a rebuilding team. Phil did just that. We don't get KP without losing all those games. Mission accomplished in my opinion.

Phil signs Robin Lopez and established a foundation for this off season. We have a blueprint to show guys where they can fit in. What more do you want?

fans arent complaining. Phil has made both good and bad moves. Nothing wrong with rooting for the knicks but being honest as well

It's ok to not like something but the stuff you read on this forum and just the things people are saying out there in general. It's ridiculous especially if you consider everything that's happened the last 15 years.

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I can't complain about anything Phil has done. I see the Tyson trade is still a big deal with yall but could Tyson fit what we're trying to do? Absolutely not. Tyson leadership was a myth. He proved that here, he also proved that in his second Dallas stint and the Phoenix stint. He's a liability on offense that can't score outside of a clean lane on a pick and roll. That to me sums it up. Felton almost did 3 and a half years in jail on a gun charge.... why is this still something that's talked about?

Phil had to clean house. He got rid of Shump and JR for nothing because it was more important that they leave immediately than holding on to them. Both are cancerous players to a rebuilding team. Phil did just that. We don't get KP without losing all those games. Mission accomplished in my opinion.

Phil signs Robin Lopez and established a foundation for this off season. We have a blueprint to show guys where they can fit in. What more do you want?

fans arent complaining. Phil has made both good and bad moves. Nothing wrong with rooting for the knicks but being honest as well

It's ok to not like something but the stuff you read on this forum and just the things people are saying out there in general. It's ridiculous especially if you consider everything that's happened the last 15 years.

i agree SOME people but not most. Most fans have endured many tough years after the frear 90s knicks. Its tough to blame them for being hesitant

yellowboy90 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I can't complain about anything Phil has done. I see the Tyson trade is still a big deal with yall but could Tyson fit what we're trying to do? Absolutely not. Tyson leadership was a myth. He proved that here, he also proved that in his second Dallas stint and the Phoenix stint. He's a liability on offense that can't score outside of a clean lane on a pick and roll. That to me sums it up. Felton almost did 3 and a half years in jail on a gun charge.... why is this still something that's talked about?

Phil had to clean house. He got rid of Shump and JR for nothing because it was more important that they leave immediately than holding on to them. Both are cancerous players to a rebuilding team. Phil did just that. We don't get KP without losing all those games. Mission accomplished in my opinion.

Phil signs Robin Lopez and established a foundation for this off season. We have a blueprint to show guys where they can fit in. What more do you want?

This makes so much sense. Tyson doesn't fit the system. He is a PnR vertical spacing Center that would not get the PnR touches to excel. However, the next year you try to bring in a similar player on a max contract in DeAndre Jordan. It's just a bunch of contradictions in Phil's reasoning.

Tyson has Health issues and may break down rapidly, okay let's trade him for an even Older player in Jose who has had numerous health issues and rarely ever helped his team win.

Next line of thinking was lets get rid of a locker room cancer but Dalembert had his locker room issues and guess what he did in NY too. So they released him for nothing similar to how they could have released Felton

It's not about Keeping Tyson or Felton it is about maximizing every asset you have when you are rebuilding. Also it is okay to admit Phil made mistakes.

Dalembert was on a cheap contact. Hardly a mistake. Just a stop gap player.

You want to maximize every asset but this isn't a video game. It's real life and teams and players really hate the Knicks. Phil has done the best he can do. Regardless of those insignificant moves... 2 years later we are in a great place as a franchise. We're financially stable, we have a top draft pick in KP. We have several young guys on the roster and coming in that have high upside. We have a style of play and a blueprint to show free agents that we want to come in to help.

I can take the little mistakes as part of the process. Guys here are acting like this is the Isiah days. That to me is pure disgusting and ignorant

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I can't complain about anything Phil has done. I see the Tyson trade is still a big deal with yall but could Tyson fit what we're trying to do? Absolutely not. Tyson leadership was a myth. He proved that here, he also proved that in his second Dallas stint and the Phoenix stint. He's a liability on offense that can't score outside of a clean lane on a pick and roll. That to me sums it up. Felton almost did 3 and a half years in jail on a gun charge.... why is this still something that's talked about?

Phil had to clean house. He got rid of Shump and JR for nothing because it was more important that they leave immediately than holding on to them. Both are cancerous players to a rebuilding team. Phil did just that. We don't get KP without losing all those games. Mission accomplished in my opinion.

Phil signs Robin Lopez and established a foundation for this off season. We have a blueprint to show guys where they can fit in. What more do you want?

fans arent complaining. Phil has made both good and bad moves. Nothing wrong with rooting for the knicks but being honest as well

It's ok to not like something but the stuff you read on this forum and just the things people are saying out there in general. It's ridiculous especially if you consider everything that's happened the last 15 years.

i agree SOME people but not most. Most fans have endured many tough years after the frear 90s knicks. Its tough to blame them for being hesitant

I was hesitant the day Phil was hired. It's been 2 years. From day one till now we are in a great place. It's time to be excited

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I can't complain about anything Phil has done. I see the Tyson trade is still a big deal with yall but could Tyson fit what we're trying to do? Absolutely not. Tyson leadership was a myth. He proved that here, he also proved that in his second Dallas stint and the Phoenix stint. He's a liability on offense that can't score outside of a clean lane on a pick and roll. That to me sums it up. Felton almost did 3 and a half years in jail on a gun charge.... why is this still something that's talked about?

Phil had to clean house. He got rid of Shump and JR for nothing because it was more important that they leave immediately than holding on to them. Both are cancerous players to a rebuilding team. Phil did just that. We don't get KP without losing all those games. Mission accomplished in my opinion.

Phil signs Robin Lopez and established a foundation for this off season. We have a blueprint to show guys where they can fit in. What more do you want?

fans arent complaining. Phil has made both good and bad moves. Nothing wrong with rooting for the knicks but being honest as well

It's ok to not like something but the stuff you read on this forum and just the things people are saying out there in general. It's ridiculous especially if you consider everything that's happened the last 15 years.

i agree SOME people but not most. Most fans have endured many tough years after the frear 90s knicks. Its tough to blame them for being hesitant

I was hesitant the day Phil was hired. It's been 2 years. From day one till now we are in a great place. It's time to be excited

Eh i wouldnt say we are are in a great place yet. We have a great piece in KP so he gives me hope. I like jerian grant probably more than most people. Im always excited for a new season but its way too premature to says the knicks are ready to make noise

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I can't complain about anything Phil has done. I see the Tyson trade is still a big deal with yall but could Tyson fit what we're trying to do? Absolutely not. Tyson leadership was a myth. He proved that here, he also proved that in his second Dallas stint and the Phoenix stint. He's a liability on offense that can't score outside of a clean lane on a pick and roll. That to me sums it up. Felton almost did 3 and a half years in jail on a gun charge.... why is this still something that's talked about?

Phil had to clean house. He got rid of Shump and JR for nothing because it was more important that they leave immediately than holding on to them. Both are cancerous players to a rebuilding team. Phil did just that. We don't get KP without losing all those games. Mission accomplished in my opinion.

Phil signs Robin Lopez and established a foundation for this off season. We have a blueprint to show guys where they can fit in. What more do you want?

fans arent complaining. Phil has made both good and bad moves. Nothing wrong with rooting for the knicks but being honest as well

It's ok to not like something but the stuff you read on this forum and just the things people are saying out there in general. It's ridiculous especially if you consider everything that's happened the last 15 years.

i agree SOME people but not most. Most fans have endured many tough years after the frear 90s knicks. Its tough to blame them for being hesitant

I was hesitant the day Phil was hired. It's been 2 years. From day one till now we are in a great place. It's time to be excited

Eh i wouldnt say we are are in a great place yet. We have a great piece in KP so he gives me hope. I like jerian grant probably more than most people. Im always excited for a new season but its way too premature to says the knicks are ready to make noise

Who said the Knicks are ready to make noise? See that's the problem. Of course the Knicks aren't ready to start making noise. We have to see what the summer brings. Right now we all should be excited for what could happen.

Those that want to cry and complain until we start winning are jackasses in my opinion. What's the point of being a fan? Trash the team until they win it all? That's what I can't take anymore worth this fan base.

Phil should have never taken the job.

Now he should go eat some pudding.

yellowboy90 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I can't complain about anything Phil has done. I see the Tyson trade is still a big deal with yall but could Tyson fit what we're trying to do? Absolutely not. Tyson leadership was a myth. He proved that here, he also proved that in his second Dallas stint and the Phoenix stint. He's a liability on offense that can't score outside of a clean lane on a pick and roll. That to me sums it up. Felton almost did 3 and a half years in jail on a gun charge.... why is this still something that's talked about?

Phil had to clean house. He got rid of Shump and JR for nothing because it was more important that they leave immediately than holding on to them. Both are cancerous players to a rebuilding team. Phil did just that. We don't get KP without losing all those games. Mission accomplished in my opinion.

Phil signs Robin Lopez and established a foundation for this off season. We have a blueprint to show guys where they can fit in. What more do you want?

This makes so much sense. Tyson doesn't fit the system. He is a PnR vertical spacing Center that would not get the PnR touches to excel. However, the next year you try to bring in a similar player on a max contract in DeAndre Jordan. It's just a bunch of contradictions in Phil's reasoning.

Tyson has Health issues and may break down rapidly, okay let's trade him for an even Older player in Jose who has had numerous health issues and rarely ever helped his team win.

Next line of thinking was lets get rid of a locker room cancer but Dalembert had his locker room issues and guess what he did in NY too. So they released him for nothing similar to how they could have released Felton

It's not about Keeping Tyson or Felton it is about maximizing every asset you have when you are rebuilding. Also it is okay to admit Phil made mistakes.

you can repeat this 10000000 more times but it wont help.

we needed to get rid of tyson because he was a cancer.

Right now all Jackson can do is focus on what he's already done well. There are many ways to re-build. Some teams do it by tanking and working through the draft. Other teams use it to get some veterans in free agency and 1 or 2 young draft picks. We're using the latter strategy. Jackson has to stick with the plan and get aggressive in free agency this summer. Knicks should have up to 30$M in capspace. There are going to be players who are good starter worthy backcourt types who want to play for a team that's going to push for the playoffs.

Lopez/Porzingis/Anthony/Guard through free agency/Grant

Talent is talent. Last year's team had the talent for 35 wins at best. We came close to that. This coming season, it comes down to free agency and what Porzingis/Grant play like. I think we can hit 45 wins if we make some good free agent moves. More than that, requires a major player like Durant, Conley, or DeRozan to sign.

For us it's all about how good Porzingis really is and how much we can improve through free agency. The only pieces that are in tact right now are Lopez, KP, Melo and Grant. I think the rest is still a work in progress and more is coming.

My gut feeling on this summer's FA: unless it's for Kevin Durant, resist the urge to overpay any of these middle-of-the-road FAs. Even DeRozan--nice player but I don't love him, esp. on a max deal. Definitely don't overpay for guys like Bazemore, Evan Turner, Rondo, Conley Jr., Batum.. Decent players, no doubt, but none of these guys really do it for me esp. for the absurd amount of money we've been talking about. We've been down the road of handing out overly lucrative contracts to undeserving/so-so players so many times and have gotten burned more often than not. Then it takes years to dig out of the gigantic hole we've dug ourselves..Just not interested in going down that path anymore. Been there, done that... This is not the summer to overspend in FA imo. You overspend on the wrong FAs in the NBA, you're sunk and we've wrote the book on that going back years now. Check in with KD early on (how does this guy fit with Melo and KP anyway?), then quickly switch gears toward more realistic options, guys with upside at a reasonable cost, guys we can transform into productive players with more usage and without overpaying. Not interested in paying a premium price for most of these guys. I mean come on--$15mm a pop for Kent Bazemore?!? That's nuts. Let's go find our own Kent Bazemore somewhere else. They're out there, I'm telling you.. I honestly believe, if we look around hard enough and keep an open mind, we could come up with a talented, deep roster that all fits together and fills the gapping holes we have without drastically overspending. I'd rather maintain flexibility for next summer and beyond. And if Melo doesn't like that, tough shit buddy--there's the door.

Finestrg wrote:My gut feeling on this summer's FA: unless it's for Kevin Durant, resist the urge to overpay any of these middle-of-the-road FAs. Even DeRozan--nice player but I don't love him, esp. on a max deal. Definitely don't overpay for guys like Bazemore, Evan Turner, Rondo, Conley Jr., Batum.. Decent players, no doubt, but none of these guys do it for me for the absurd amount of money we've been talking about. We've been down the road of handing out overly lucrative contracts to undeserving/so-so players so many times and have gotten burned more often than not. Then it takes years to dig out of the hole we've dug ourselves..Just not interested in going down that path anymore. Been there, done that... This is not the summer to overspend in FA imo. You overspend on the wrong FAs in the NBA, you're sunk and we've wrote the book on that going back years now. Check in with KD early on (how does this guy fit with Melo and KP anyway?), then quickly switch gears toward more realistic options, guys with upside at a reasonable cost. Not interested in paying a premium price for anyone else. I mean come on--$15mm a pop of Kent Bazemore?!? That's nuts. Let's go find our own Kent Bazemore somewhere else. They're out there, I'm telling you.. I honestly believe, if we look around hard enough and keep on open mind, we could come up with a talented, deep roster that all fits together and fills the gapping holes we have without drastically overspending. I'd rather maintain flexibility for next summer and beyond. And if Melo doesn't like that, tough shit buddy--there's the door.

I'm in this camp. Next year's FA class is just too good and ripe with opportunity. I wouldn't mind overpaying on a 1 year deal for a competent guard but not at the cost of losing out on the following years class.

I'd spend good RoLo-like money to solidify the bench but that's it.

Hard for me to gauge Bazemore but haven't watched him enough either.

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:My gut feeling on this summer's FA: unless it's for Kevin Durant, resist the urge to overpay any of these middle-of-the-road FAs. Even DeRozan--nice player but I don't love him, esp. on a max deal. Definitely don't overpay for guys like Bazemore, Evan Turner, Rondo, Conley Jr., Batum.. Decent players, no doubt, but none of these guys do it for me for the absurd amount of money we've been talking about. We've been down the road of handing out overly lucrative contracts to undeserving/so-so players so many times and have gotten burned more often than not. Then it takes years to dig out of the hole we've dug ourselves..Just not interested in going down that path anymore. Been there, done that... This is not the summer to overspend in FA imo. You overspend on the wrong FAs in the NBA, you're sunk and we've wrote the book on that going back years now. Check in with KD early on (how does this guy fit with Melo and KP anyway?), then quickly switch gears toward more realistic options, guys with upside at a reasonable cost. Not interested in paying a premium price for anyone else. I mean come on--$15mm a pop of Kent Bazemore?!? That's nuts. Let's go find our own Kent Bazemore somewhere else. They're out there, I'm telling you.. I honestly believe, if we look around hard enough and keep on open mind, we could come up with a talented, deep roster that all fits together and fills the gapping holes we have without drastically overspending. I'd rather maintain flexibility for next summer and beyond. And if Melo doesn't like that, tough shit buddy--there's the door.

I'm in this camp. Next year's FA class is just too good and ripe with opportunity. I wouldn't mind overpaying on a 1 year deal for a competent guard but not at the cost of losing out on the following years class.

I'd spend good RoLo-like money to solidify the bench but that's it.

Hard for me to gauge Bazemore but haven't watched him enough either.

I feel the same way. Phil seems to be on that same boat too based on all of his moves. Jerian and Wroten are going to be heavily relied upon next year. I can see Phil signing a guard like Eric Gordon on a cheap Derrick Williams or Affalo type deal. We gotta keep plugging away. No homerun swings for mediocre players

EnySpree wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:My gut feeling on this summer's FA: unless it's for Kevin Durant, resist the urge to overpay any of these middle-of-the-road FAs. Even DeRozan--nice player but I don't love him, esp. on a max deal. Definitely don't overpay for guys like Bazemore, Evan Turner, Rondo, Conley Jr., Batum.. Decent players, no doubt, but none of these guys do it for me for the absurd amount of money we've been talking about. We've been down the road of handing out overly lucrative contracts to undeserving/so-so players so many times and have gotten burned more often than not. Then it takes years to dig out of the hole we've dug ourselves..Just not interested in going down that path anymore. Been there, done that... This is not the summer to overspend in FA imo. You overspend on the wrong FAs in the NBA, you're sunk and we've wrote the book on that going back years now. Check in with KD early on (how does this guy fit with Melo and KP anyway?), then quickly switch gears toward more realistic options, guys with upside at a reasonable cost. Not interested in paying a premium price for anyone else. I mean come on--$15mm a pop of Kent Bazemore?!? That's nuts. Let's go find our own Kent Bazemore somewhere else. They're out there, I'm telling you.. I honestly believe, if we look around hard enough and keep on open mind, we could come up with a talented, deep roster that all fits together and fills the gapping holes we have without drastically overspending. I'd rather maintain flexibility for next summer and beyond. And if Melo doesn't like that, tough shit buddy--there's the door.

I'm in this camp. Next year's FA class is just too good and ripe with opportunity. I wouldn't mind overpaying on a 1 year deal for a competent guard but not at the cost of losing out on the following years class.

I'd spend good RoLo-like money to solidify the bench but that's it.

Hard for me to gauge Bazemore but haven't watched him enough either.

I feel the same way. Phil seems to be on that same boat too based on all of his moves. Jerian and Wroten are going to be heavily relied upon next year. I can see Phil signing a guard like Eric Gordon on a cheap Derrick Williams or Affalo type deal. We gotta keep plugging away. No homerun swings for mediocre players

if we are relying heavily on grant and wroten then we are going for another tank / high pick.

mreinman wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:My gut feeling on this summer's FA: unless it's for Kevin Durant, resist the urge to overpay any of these middle-of-the-road FAs. Even DeRozan--nice player but I don't love him, esp. on a max deal. Definitely don't overpay for guys like Bazemore, Evan Turner, Rondo, Conley Jr., Batum.. Decent players, no doubt, but none of these guys do it for me for the absurd amount of money we've been talking about. We've been down the road of handing out overly lucrative contracts to undeserving/so-so players so many times and have gotten burned more often than not. Then it takes years to dig out of the hole we've dug ourselves..Just not interested in going down that path anymore. Been there, done that... This is not the summer to overspend in FA imo. You overspend on the wrong FAs in the NBA, you're sunk and we've wrote the book on that going back years now. Check in with KD early on (how does this guy fit with Melo and KP anyway?), then quickly switch gears toward more realistic options, guys with upside at a reasonable cost. Not interested in paying a premium price for anyone else. I mean come on--$15mm a pop of Kent Bazemore?!? That's nuts. Let's go find our own Kent Bazemore somewhere else. They're out there, I'm telling you.. I honestly believe, if we look around hard enough and keep on open mind, we could come up with a talented, deep roster that all fits together and fills the gapping holes we have without drastically overspending. I'd rather maintain flexibility for next summer and beyond. And if Melo doesn't like that, tough shit buddy--there's the door.

I'm in this camp. Next year's FA class is just too good and ripe with opportunity. I wouldn't mind overpaying on a 1 year deal for a competent guard but not at the cost of losing out on the following years class.

I'd spend good RoLo-like money to solidify the bench but that's it.

Hard for me to gauge Bazemore but haven't watched him enough either.

I feel the same way. Phil seems to be on that same boat too based on all of his moves. Jerian and Wroten are going to be heavily relied upon next year. I can see Phil signing a guard like Eric Gordon on a cheap Derrick Williams or Affalo type deal. We gotta keep plugging away. No homerun swings for mediocre players

if we are relying heavily on grant and wroten then we are going for another tank / high pick.

Very good... This is exactly what doctor ordered for this team recovering from Zomby state.