And while I am down on Galloway I am not without hope. He has certainly shown he can shoot the 3 at a high rate for extended periods of time. I want to know if this year's way up and way down can be stabilized. Was it mental? Was it mechanical? If we can get LG fixed. He shot 34% from 3 for the year, which I think can certainly be improved on. Kids got a great work ethic. The problem isn't so much the 34% but that at first he hit everything than he hit nothing.
That being said if LG could ever be a good shooter from there... say 38%-40% he would be a really valuable player off the bench. Kind of guy that always gives you full speed defense, will catch some guys sleeping but is mostly a 3&D player. That would be nice... I have some realistic hope. We have seen some good things, but I do not have conviction... just as many dudes show a nice flash and can never get it back and are in Europe a year later.
Another thing is simply swapping out Afflalo (please opt out) with Grant or Wroten, whomever wins the job. My money would be on Grant. He had enough good games this year where I think he can look at tape, dissect what he needs to work on, put the time in and come into camp feeling like he can be a player in this league. If that happens, or is Wroten's healthy and his confidence is justified that gives us a big athletic guard to match up, can slash to the basket and that frees up Jose to spread the floor more and run the offense less. Jose Calderon was 10th in the NBA in shooting the 3.
And that is just looking (hoping) at the upside of the roster.
I think the guy who moves the needle the most is Batum. He's a great ball mover. Can hit the long jumper and 3. Plays a few positions. Can slide to the 3 when Lopez comes out and its Melo/KP up front. Puts a high IQ vet on the floor next to Grant or Wroten and is a spacer for those slashers as well. I just think he's the guy you throw the big cash at.
Batum would be great. Though he really faded in the second half this season. He shouldn't be more than our fourth or fifth best player. Counting on him to be third best is not a good plan. Also, Charlotte had a lot more success with Courtney Lee at SG and Batum at SF. They were actually at their best when the backcourt was Walker and Lin and Lee was their SF and Batum was out. I'd rather chase Lee. He's a better defender at SG/SF.
newyorknewyork@ 5/5/2016 9:53 AM
Lack of 3 point shooters wasn't the Knicks problem last season. Majority of our roster can bang 3s. The problem was lack of elite level penitration or post game to open up shooters or take advantage of the shooters.
Jr Smith is feast or famine. He played great in a couple of last yrs ECF games as well. Then the finals came. To ride the jock of JR Smith at this point in his career after he has demonstrated time and time again who he really is. Either is purely to push agenda. Or signs of insanity.
newyorknewyork@ 5/5/2016 9:55 AM
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
foosballnick wrote:Knicks attempted almost 250 more threes than the Spurs this year.
the spurs have duncan and parker who just can't hit the 3.
They only take stupid shots
LMA just strokes mid range jumper after mid range jumper.
fishmike@ 5/5/2016 10:06 AM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Would be great to have a shooter like JR Smith to space the floor in the Triangle. How do we get a guard like that?
Honest answer? Europe. Conventional isn't going to get you that without grossly overpaying.
And while I am down on Galloway I am not without hope. He has certainly shown he can shoot the 3 at a high rate for extended periods of time. I want to know if this year's way up and way down can be stabilized. Was it mental? Was it mechanical? If we can get LG fixed. He shot 34% from 3 for the year, which I think can certainly be improved on. Kids got a great work ethic. The problem isn't so much the 34% but that at first he hit everything than he hit nothing.
That being said if LG could ever be a good shooter from there... say 38%-40% he would be a really valuable player off the bench. Kind of guy that always gives you full speed defense, will catch some guys sleeping but is mostly a 3&D player. That would be nice... I have some realistic hope. We have seen some good things, but I do not have conviction... just as many dudes show a nice flash and can never get it back and are in Europe a year later.
Another thing is simply swapping out Afflalo (please opt out) with Grant or Wroten, whomever wins the job. My money would be on Grant. He had enough good games this year where I think he can look at tape, dissect what he needs to work on, put the time in and come into camp feeling like he can be a player in this league. If that happens, or is Wroten's healthy and his confidence is justified that gives us a big athletic guard to match up, can slash to the basket and that frees up Jose to spread the floor more and run the offense less. Jose Calderon was 10th in the NBA in shooting the 3.
And that is just looking (hoping) at the upside of the roster.
I think the guy who moves the needle the most is Batum. He's a great ball mover. Can hit the long jumper and 3. Plays a few positions. Can slide to the 3 when Lopez comes out and its Melo/KP up front. Puts a high IQ vet on the floor next to Grant or Wroten and is a spacer for those slashers as well. I just think he's the guy you throw the big cash at.
Batum would be great. Though he really faded in the second half this season. He shouldn't be more than our fourth or fifth best player. Counting on him to be third best is not a good plan. Also, Charlotte had a lot more success with Courtney Lee at SG and Batum at SF. They were actually at their best when the backcourt was Walker and Lin and Lee was their SF and Batum was out. I'd rather chase Lee. He's a better defender at SG/SF.
they are different. Agree on your points about Lee, but I see the same role for Batum, when we go small he goes to the 3, or even the 4 (he reminds me a lot of Diaw). And I think of him less as my 3rd best player, and more of his impact on the rest of the roster. He's a good shooter so he can space the floor. Good for the slashers (Wroten, Grant and DWill if he's back). He's a ball mover and will get a handful of assists swings the ball to the bigs who are shooter (Melo, KP, etc). What I really like about Batum is his impact on the guys around him.
If KP has a breakout year and can start playing the 5 full time in year 3 that REALLY opens things up, because you can trade Lopez for a decent draft pick. 29 year old center, durable, great defense with 2 years left on a good contract is a nice trade chip. Max out Westbrook with the extra cap space and your 2017-18 KNicks: C KP PF Melo SF Batum SG Westbrook PG Grant Bench: Wroten, Galloway, Willy, Early... who knows plus you have a nice pick or two from a potential Lopez deal so you have a team that can compete pretty well now in year 4 of Phil and is very future based as well. Of course Westbrook is a long shot, but he's not the only stud FA in that class and I have no doubt we can flip Lopez for pick(s) giving us extra cap space and another chip (aside from our own pick) to draft, move up, etc
If I had a "vision" it would be something like that. My FA goal is get a guy that elevates the play of the rest of the roster. Makes things easier. What we are able to add? I have no idea. Most of the bigname FAs have some real pitfalls. I think Derozan goes to LA. Connley's hammy or achilies or whatever terrifies me. Batum at the max helps us but is lets face it, overpaying. Guys like Bazemore don't move the needle and I don't see the value in overpaying role players. We are not a couple pieces away... so this off season strikes me as having more pitfalls than windfalls. I would almost be happier just trying to improve from within than whiffing on a big name but we will see what Phil does.
knicks1248@ 5/5/2016 10:06 AM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.
In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.
cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.
It's only stupid when it's 80% of your offense..
fishmike@ 5/5/2016 10:07 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
foosballnick wrote:Knicks attempted almost 250 more threes than the Spurs this year.
the spurs have duncan and parker who just can't hit the 3.
They only take stupid shots
LMA just strokes mid range jumper after mid range jumper.
I know... he dropped 40 the other night. Like shooting in the gym. So stupid. And in a playoff game??!?!? You would think Pop would know better.
newyorker4ever@ 5/5/2016 10:29 AM
EnySpree wrote:
smackeddog wrote:My concern is that if we are planning on having Wroten and Grant at PG and are aiming to sign Turner or Blazemore at SG, then we have zero shooting from the back court.
That's all speculation right now. There are good shooters available. Eric Gordon, Evan Fournier, Marcus Thornton... Any of those 3 would be awesome for the Knicks.
Awesome?? I don't know about that. Thornton has been all over the league for a reason and i'd rather have a J.Bayless over him and E.Gordon was way overpaid in his last contract so it would have to be a much better contract for me to want him on the Knicks and he's always hurt and Fornier i'd like to have but don't see the Magic not matching any contract unless it's some ridiculous contract that i wouldn't want the Knicks giving out anyway. I think there's a lot of better guards out there that i'd much rather have than Gordon and Thornton, Gordon i'll take for the right price/contract.
knicks1248@ 5/5/2016 10:38 AM
mreinman wrote:
Nalod wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.
In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.
cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.
One game defines your philosophy. impressionable.
one game? take your head out of phil azz and watch what is going on around the league. Oh ... JR smith says hi.
lol, these triangle lovers, swear that it's going to cure all of our woes.
If you don't have at least 2 bigs and 3 smalls, that can knock down 3's at a 34 to 39% clip. your going to be toast on most nights.
newyorker4ever@ 5/5/2016 10:40 AM
crzymdups wrote:Would be great to have a shooter like JR Smith to space the floor in the Triangle. How do we get a guard like that?
You don't just get a guy like JR Smith cause as much as we hated him when he was a Knick, when he's hot he's crazy hot and can shoot the lights out. I can see guys like C.Lee or J.Bayless or K.Martin, Seth Curry or A.Crabbe or other mid level guys who can shoot the rock.
newyorker4ever@ 5/5/2016 10:45 AM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Would be great to have a shooter like JR Smith to space the floor in the Triangle. How do we get a guard like that?
Honest answer? Europe. Conventional isn't going to get you that without grossly overpaying.
And while I am down on Galloway I am not without hope. He has certainly shown he can shoot the 3 at a high rate for extended periods of time. I want to know if this year's way up and way down can be stabilized. Was it mental? Was it mechanical? If we can get LG fixed. He shot 34% from 3 for the year, which I think can certainly be improved on. Kids got a great work ethic. The problem isn't so much the 34% but that at first he hit everything than he hit nothing.
That being said if LG could ever be a good shooter from there... say 38%-40% he would be a really valuable player off the bench. Kind of guy that always gives you full speed defense, will catch some guys sleeping but is mostly a 3&D player. That would be nice... I have some realistic hope. We have seen some good things, but I do not have conviction... just as many dudes show a nice flash and can never get it back and are in Europe a year later.
Another thing is simply swapping out Afflalo (please opt out) with Grant or Wroten, whomever wins the job. My money would be on Grant. He had enough good games this year where I think he can look at tape, dissect what he needs to work on, put the time in and come into camp feeling like he can be a player in this league. If that happens, or is Wroten's healthy and his confidence is justified that gives us a big athletic guard to match up, can slash to the basket and that frees up Jose to spread the floor more and run the offense less. Jose Calderon was 10th in the NBA in shooting the 3.
And that is just looking (hoping) at the upside of the roster.
I think the guy who moves the needle the most is Batum. He's a great ball mover. Can hit the long jumper and 3. Plays a few positions. Can slide to the 3 when Lopez comes out and its Melo/KP up front. Puts a high IQ vet on the floor next to Grant or Wroten and is a spacer for those slashers as well. I just think he's the guy you throw the big cash at.
Batum would be great. Though he really faded in the second half this season. He shouldn't be more than our fourth or fifth best player. Counting on him to be third best is not a good plan. Also, Charlotte had a lot more success with Courtney Lee at SG and Batum at SF. They were actually at their best when the backcourt was Walker and Lin and Lee was their SF and Batum was out. I'd rather chase Lee. He's a better defender at SG/SF.
they are different. Agree on your points about Lee, but I see the same role for Batum, when we go small he goes to the 3, or even the 4 (he reminds me a lot of Diaw). And I think of him less as my 3rd best player, and more of his impact on the rest of the roster. He's a good shooter so he can space the floor. Good for the slashers (Wroten, Grant and DWill if he's back). He's a ball mover and will get a handful of assists swings the ball to the bigs who are shooter (Melo, KP, etc). What I really like about Batum is his impact on the guys around him.
If KP has a breakout year and can start playing the 5 full time in year 3 that REALLY opens things up, because you can trade Lopez for a decent draft pick. 29 year old center, durable, great defense with 2 years left on a good contract is a nice trade chip. Max out Westbrook with the extra cap space and your 2017-18 KNicks: C KP PF Melo SF Batum SG Westbrook PG Grant Bench: Wroten, Galloway, Willy, Early... who knows plus you have a nice pick or two from a potential Lopez deal so you have a team that can compete pretty well now in year 4 of Phil and is very future based as well. Of course Westbrook is a long shot, but he's not the only stud FA in that class and I have no doubt we can flip Lopez for pick(s) giving us extra cap space and another chip (aside from our own pick) to draft, move up, etc
If I had a "vision" it would be something like that. My FA goal is get a guy that elevates the play of the rest of the roster. Makes things easier. What we are able to add? I have no idea. Most of the bigname FAs have some real pitfalls. I think Derozan goes to LA. Connley's hammy or achilies or whatever terrifies me. Batum at the max helps us but is lets face it, overpaying. Guys like Bazemore don't move the needle and I don't see the value in overpaying role players. We are not a couple pieces away... so this off season strikes me as having more pitfalls than windfalls. I would almost be happier just trying to improve from within than whiffing on a big name but we will see what Phil does.
Batum is absolutely not leaving Charlotte and has made that very clear and Charlotte has made it very clear that they're bringing him back.
newyorknewyork@ 5/5/2016 11:13 AM
The Cavs win because they have Lebron James. The Hawks shoot a lot of 3s as well. So did the Pistons. Neither of them had Lebron James so they will lose.
Philly shot the 8th most 3s in the NBA and they won 10 games. But again we didn't lack 3 pt shooting. We lacked Penitration.
nixluva@ 5/5/2016 11:21 AM
We've gone over this before!!! The Knicks are gonna win in a similar fashion to the Spurs! That's the kind of team Phil is building. It's not gonna be a GS type team. The Spurs can do it and don't tell me we can't eventually match that cuz one day this team could be that type of team. It's not gonna be instantaneous but gradually Phil will have to keep improving the team.
knicks1248@ 5/5/2016 1:04 PM
nixluva wrote:We've gone over this before!!! The Knicks are gonna win in a similar fashion to the Spurs! That's the kind of team Phil is building. It's not gonna be a GS type team. The Spurs can do it and don't tell me we can't eventually match that cuz one day this team could be that type of team. It's not gonna be instantaneous but gradually Phil will have to keep improving the team.
Spurs are who they are because of pop.
why is Portland better with less talent then last yr
knicks1248@ 5/5/2016 1:04 PM
nixluva wrote:We've gone over this before!!! The Knicks are gonna win in a similar fashion to the Spurs! That's the kind of team Phil is building. It's not gonna be a GS type team. The Spurs can do it and don't tell me we can't eventually match that cuz one day this team could be that type of team. It's not gonna be instantaneous but gradually Phil will have to keep improving the team.
Spurs are who they are because of pop.
why is Portland better with less talent then last yr
MaTT4281@ 5/5/2016 1:42 PM
crzymdups wrote:Would be great to have a shooter like JR Smith to space the floor in the Triangle. How do we get a guard like that?
You have to put up with crap like the below.
I wish this was even all of the things I could cite on JR. There's just too many to post!
If you ever find yourself missing him, feel free to do a quick Google search for "JR Smith fined", "JR Smith suspended", or fuck, "JR Smith arrested" and you'll have multiple stories for each.
J.R. Smith, the Knicks guard with a history of legal troubles, was arrested in Miami Beach on Thursday for failing to appear in court on a traffic matter.
Smith, 26, was cited in May 2011 for operating a scooter without a valid driver’s license and was ordered to stand trial on July 25. When he failed to show, a bench warrant was issued for his arrest
Smith's tiff with Woodson on Monday night, earlier reported by the New York Daily News, was the latest instance of friction between Smith and the Knicks organization this season.
He was fined $50,000 by the NBA last week for his attempts to untie two opponents' shoelaces in recent games. That led to Woodson benching the 28-year-old in the Knicks' next game -- a nationally televised win over the Miami Heat.
Smith also was suspended for the first five games of the regular season for violating the league's anti-drug policy over the summer. In November, he was fined $25,000 for sending a threatening message to Detroit's Brandon Jennings on Twitter after Jennings questioned the NBA credentials of Smith's brother, Chris.
The Knicks released Chris Smith in late December to make room for free-agent big man Jeremy Tyler. Multiple sources say Smith is angry over the team's decision to cut his brother. He hinted at his displeasure with the situation at the time with a post on social media.
foosballnick wrote:Knicks attempted almost 250 more threes than the Spurs this year.
the spurs have duncan and parker who just can't hit the 3.
They only take stupid shots
LMA just strokes mid range jumper after mid range jumper.
any shot is a good shot if the shooter can hit it at an efficient enough level to warrant it.
nixluva@ 5/5/2016 3:10 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:We've gone over this before!!! The Knicks are gonna win in a similar fashion to the Spurs! That's the kind of team Phil is building. It's not gonna be a GS type team. The Spurs can do it and don't tell me we can't eventually match that cuz one day this team could be that type of team. It's not gonna be instantaneous but gradually Phil will have to keep improving the team.
Spurs are who they are because of pop.
why is Portland better with less talent then last yr
Not sure what you're talking about when you say the Spurs are who they are because of Pop!
The Spurs have Duncan and LMA and play thru them. That's not much different from what Phil is looking to do as this team is being constructed. As the Knicks improve the Backcourt players and we have more speed, breakdown ability and shooting, things will start to fall in place. This isn't going to be a team that plays like GS or Portland. The Spurs or a healthy Memphis is the closest comparison to the way Phil is building the team. Now he could change his mind at some point but for right now it seems clear what direction he's been headed.
martin@ 5/5/2016 4:16 PM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.
In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.
cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.
No one said you can't shoot 3's in the Triangle, but it's not the only way to play efficient ball. The Warriors are an all time Team so we can't judge everything off of only them. I compared the top 5 teams in Offensive Rating from this year with Phil's last Lakers teams of 2007-08 thru 2010-11. Aside from the Warriors the top offensive teams this year and Phil's Lakers teams were pretty close offensively even tho those old teams did things differently.
Fewer PnR's and fewer 3's for those Lakers teams but they got more scoring at the rim and took more FT's. Seems that with minor tweaks to the percentage of 3's shot and a slightly faster pace, that it's possible for a team playing the Triangle to be competitive in today's NBA.
foosballnick wrote:Knicks attempted almost 250 more threes than the Spurs this year.
the spurs have duncan and parker who just can't hit the 3.
That's my point entirely. The spurs had 3 pt shooters around their stars. Tony Parker stirred the drink for a decade. Even now that his scoring is down. Things are still funneled through him. His activity opens everything for everyone else. The Knicks front court is can compete with the Spurs right now.... Grant and Wroten can stir our drink.... Grant can be our Tony Parker while Wroten Is the Manu Gionobili. If you are crying about a shooter, Eric Gordon would be fantastic starting with Grant. Wroten being a super six man
bonkers
our front line cannot compete with SA's, are you phucking drunk? and grant will never ever ever EVER be close to Tony Parker and Fukking Wroten? Who the phuck is wronten? and this garbage man is going to be our Manu?
You need to take a couple of tylenol and go back and sleep it off.
You can make jokes if you want to wallow in your own filth. Instead I'll paint a picture of possibilities....
LaMarcus Aldridge is what we want KP to become. KP is already the better defender. Melo and Leonard are basically a wash offensively...Melo isn't the stopper Leonard is but he's upgraded himself to being a decent NBA defender. Rolo 2016 is very close to Duncan 2016. Grants skill set is very similar to Parker. Parker has had a great career and Grant is just starting his. The potential is there. Wroten is a wild undisciplined ball handler that can't be stopped from getting to the rim. Pops put Manu on the bench. Wroten might find himself there too. He's already proven he can score in this league whether you wanna believe your eyes or not
Bye Felicia
CrushAlot@ 5/5/2016 4:34 PM
MaTT4281 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Would be great to have a shooter like JR Smith to space the floor in the Triangle. How do we get a guard like that?
You have to put up with crap like the below.
I wish this was even all of the things I could cite on JR. There's just too many to post!
If you ever find yourself missing him, feel free to do a quick Google search for "JR Smith fined", "JR Smith suspended", or fuck, "JR Smith arrested" and you'll have multiple stories for each.
J.R. Smith, the Knicks guard with a history of legal troubles, was arrested in Miami Beach on Thursday for failing to appear in court on a traffic matter.
Smith, 26, was cited in May 2011 for operating a scooter without a valid driver’s license and was ordered to stand trial on July 25. When he failed to show, a bench warrant was issued for his arrest
Smith's tiff with Woodson on Monday night, earlier reported by the New York Daily News, was the latest instance of friction between Smith and the Knicks organization this season.
He was fined $50,000 by the NBA last week for his attempts to untie two opponents' shoelaces in recent games. That led to Woodson benching the 28-year-old in the Knicks' next game -- a nationally televised win over the Miami Heat.
Smith also was suspended for the first five games of the regular season for violating the league's anti-drug policy over the summer. In November, he was fined $25,000 for sending a threatening message to Detroit's Brandon Jennings on Twitter after Jennings questioned the NBA credentials of Smith's brother, Chris.
The Knicks released Chris Smith in late December to make room for free-agent big man Jeremy Tyler. Multiple sources say Smith is angry over the team's decision to cut his brother. He hinted at his displeasure with the situation at the time with a post on social media.
Thanks for posting this. JR should have been shipped out sooner.
nixluva@ 5/5/2016 5:04 PM
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.
In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.
cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.
No one said you can't shoot 3's in the Triangle, but it's not the only way to play efficient ball. The Warriors are an all time Team so we can't judge everything off of only them. I compared the top 5 teams in Offensive Rating from this year with Phil's last Lakers teams of 2007-08 thru 2010-11. Aside from the Warriors the top offensive teams this year and Phil's Lakers teams were pretty close offensively even tho those old teams did things differently.
Fewer PnR's and fewer 3's for those Lakers teams but they got more scoring at the rim and took more FT's. Seems that with minor tweaks to the percentage of 3's shot and a slightly faster pace, that it's possible for a team playing the Triangle to be competitive in today's NBA.
Thanks. I found it very interesting and it looks clear to me that it's not a slam dunk that the "modern offenses" are so much superior. The Warriors are superior and I think that warps the view people have. Sure they're a great team and have a great style of play, but how realistic is it that you can collect the specific talent they have?
Phil is looking for a way to play that is realistic for this team to achieve and be ready to compete in the regular season and post season. It's clear why he wants Jerian and is taking a look at Wroten. You have to have the penetrating big guards that can drive and kick in this system. Not to mention being able to defend the guards in this league and make the court smaller with their size and length. With quicker and longer guards he can defend and funnel opposition guards into our bigs and take away the 3, PnR and stuff at the rim.
Also having big attacking guards will force other team's guards to have to work on D and commit more fouls trying to stop our guards from getting into the paint. The more guard talent Phil can add this summer the better. I like Bazemore because of his size and 2 way game. Baze even passes the ball. Allen Crabbe, Fournier and Beal are other guys I can see Phil targeting due to youth and upside.
