Knicks · Biggest need - PG or SG ? (page 2)

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The more I think about the roster, the more I think that it will not be a huge overhaul this summer.

PG - Wroten / Grant / Calderon (in small doses)
SG - Turner / Afflalo / Galloway / draft a PG/SG in second round
SF - Melo / Lance / (some Afflalo/Turner here)
PF - KP / DWill / (some Melo here)
C - Rolo / Hernangomez / KOQ / (some KP here)

this will almost certainly will get us a losing record. Who are JH's shooters?

That's just a way I could see them going. I feel like both Phil and JH have made reference to a two-guard front. And Wroten and Turner are both playmakers, both big, long, rangy guards.

If you ask me what I WANT to do, rather than what I think Phil might do, here's what I'd want:

I'd prefer to add Jennings and either Bazemore or Courtney Lee at SG.

PG - Jennings / Grant / Wroten / Calderon
SG - Bazemore / Afflalo / Galloway
SF - Melo / Lance
PF - KP / DWill
C - Rolo / Hernangomez / KOQ

That gives us a lot of guards and the ability to go three guard with either AA or Bazemore playing the 3, then play Melo at the 4 and KP at the 5 for stretches.

If I COULD do anything - I'd try for that. Not sure we can afford to keep AA in that scenario though.

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The more I think about the roster, the more I think that it will not be a huge overhaul this summer.

PG - Wroten / Grant / Calderon (in small doses)
SG - Turner / Afflalo / Galloway / draft a PG/SG in second round
SF - Melo / Lance / (some Afflalo/Turner here)
PF - KP / DWill / (some Melo here)
C - Rolo / Hernangomez / KOQ / (some KP here)

On your main squad you dont have a superior 3 pt shooter in fact your team is by far sub par against the rest of the NBA

This is just one potential. KP can be an elite 3pt shooter. Melo is above average. Afflalo is above average. Calderon is actually a top three point shooter. Lance is average.

Yes, they need to get more shooters. I'm not sure I realistically see us getting any through FA this summer. I know you'll mention the name of restricted free agent from Portland Allen Crabbe and restricted free agent Seth not Steph Curry.

crz when I say guys like Crabbe Valentine Forbes Curry--Im talking the better shooters either free agency or the draft has to offer who can do other things than just shoot as well.. I like one guard who has the speed first step who I think can shoot the mid range out to three well---Barber. I have 0 interest in Bazemore anymore and Jennings is like a plan 4 1 year PG.

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The more I think about the roster, the more I think that it will not be a huge overhaul this summer.

PG - Wroten / Grant / Calderon (in small doses)
SG - Turner / Afflalo / Galloway / draft a PG/SG in second round
SF - Melo / Lance / (some Afflalo/Turner here)
PF - KP / DWill / (some Melo here)
C - Rolo / Hernangomez / KOQ / (some KP here)

On your main squad you dont have a superior 3 pt shooter in fact your team is by far sub par against the rest of the NBA

This is just one potential. KP can be an elite 3pt shooter. Melo is above average. Afflalo is above average. Calderon is actually a top three point shooter. Lance is average.

Yes, they need to get more shooters. I'm not sure I realistically see us getting any through FA this summer. I know you'll mention the name of restricted free agent from Portland Allen Crabbe and restricted free agent Seth not Steph Curry.

crz when I say guys like Crabbe Valentine Forbes Curry--Im talking the better shooters either free agency or the draft has to offer who can do other things than just shoot as well.. I like one guard who has the speed first step who I think can shoot the mid range out to three well---Barber. I have 0 interest in Bazemore anymore and Jennings is like a plan 4 1 year PG.

Restricted free agency is a non-starter for me. You have to overpay so much that it makes the contract toxic.

Crabbe should be off the list.

Maybe Sacramento is not interested in keeping Curry... though if Rondo leaves, they probably are...

I just don't think you can bank on RFA.

You're talking about paying Crabbe more than anyone on the team not named Melo at $17M per year. That would make him the 20th highest paid player in the NBA.

I think you can get Bazemore at $12M - he's UFA and Atlanta might be blowing it up.

Give me Jennings and Bazemore.

As much as we need shooting, we need guys who can dribble drive to create penetration to create open shots for those shooters.

I'm sorry, I just don't feel it is realistic to say we can acquire pick 16 in this draft. Or swoop in and overpay the heck out of Crabbe to steal him in RFA. I'm trying to stay within the realm of the realistic. Guys here talking about trading Rolo for Teague... it's not happening. And then people tell me I'm the one with delusions when I wonder if Phil was told he couldn't hire Rambis! No! I'm delusional. But the Knicks are gonna sign Durant and Lebron and trade Rolo for Teague. Ok!

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The more I think about the roster, the more I think that it will not be a huge overhaul this summer.

PG - Wroten / Grant / Calderon (in small doses)
SG - Turner / Afflalo / Galloway / draft a PG/SG in second round
SF - Melo / Lance / (some Afflalo/Turner here)
PF - KP / DWill / (some Melo here)
C - Rolo / Hernangomez / KOQ / (some KP here)

On your main squad you dont have a superior 3 pt shooter in fact your team is by far sub par against the rest of the NBA

This is just one potential. KP can be an elite 3pt shooter. Melo is above average. Afflalo is above average. Calderon is actually a top three point shooter. Lance is average.

Yes, they need to get more shooters. I'm not sure I realistically see us getting any through FA this summer. I know you'll mention the name of restricted free agent from Portland Allen Crabbe and restricted free agent Seth not Steph Curry.

crz when I say guys like Crabbe Valentine Forbes Curry--Im talking the better shooters either free agency or the draft has to offer who can do other things than just shoot as well.. I like one guard who has the speed first step who I think can shoot the mid range out to three well---Barber. I have 0 interest in Bazemore anymore and Jennings is like a plan 4 1 year PG.

Restricted free agency is a non-starter for me. You have to overpay so much that it makes the contract toxic.

Crabbe should be off the list.

Maybe Sacramento is not interested in keeping Curry... though if Rondo leaves, they probably are...

I just don't think you can bank on RFA.

You're talking about paying Crabbe more than anyone on the team not named Melo at $17M per year. That would make him the 20th highest paid player in the NBA.

I think you can get Bazemore at $12M - he's UFA and Atlanta might be blowing it up.

Give me Jennings and Bazemore.

As much as we need shooting, we need guys who can dribble drive to create penetration to create open shots for those shooters.

I'm sorry, I just don't feel it is realistic to say we can acquire pick 16 in this draft. Or swoop in and overpay the heck out of Crabbe to steal him in RFA. I'm trying to stay within the realm of the realistic. Guys here talking about trading Rolo for Teague... it's not happening. And then people tell me I'm the one with delusions when I wonder if Phil was told he couldn't hire Rambis! No! I'm delusional. But the Knicks are gonna sign Durant and Lebron and trade Rolo for Teague. Ok!

I simply dont want Bazemore after really watching him--Id rather tank than pay him.

BRIGGS wrote:
I simply dont want Bazemore after really watching him--Id rather tank than pay him.

I think that is fair. Lot of dudes gonna get overpaid this summer. I think it could frankly wind up negatively affecting some careers - like if a guy gets super overpaid and can't live up to the contract.

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The more I think about the roster, the more I think that it will not be a huge overhaul this summer.

PG - Wroten / Grant / Calderon (in small doses)
SG - Turner / Afflalo / Galloway / draft a PG/SG in second round
SF - Melo / Lance / (some Afflalo/Turner here)
PF - KP / DWill / (some Melo here)
C - Rolo / Hernangomez / KOQ / (some KP here)

On your main squad you dont have a superior 3 pt shooter in fact your team is by far sub par against the rest of the NBA

This is just one potential. KP can be an elite 3pt shooter. Melo is above average. Afflalo is above average. Calderon is actually a top three point shooter. Lance is average.

Yes, they need to get more shooters. I'm not sure I realistically see us getting any through FA this summer. I know you'll mention the name of restricted free agent from Portland Allen Crabbe and restricted free agent Seth not Steph Curry.

crz when I say guys like Crabbe Valentine Forbes Curry--Im talking the better shooters either free agency or the draft has to offer who can do other things than just shoot as well.. I like one guard who has the speed first step who I think can shoot the mid range out to three well---Barber. I have 0 interest in Bazemore anymore and Jennings is like a plan 4 1 year PG.

Restricted free agency is a non-starter for me. You have to overpay so much that it makes the contract toxic.

Crabbe should be off the list.

Maybe Sacramento is not interested in keeping Curry... though if Rondo leaves, they probably are...

I just don't think you can bank on RFA.

You're talking about paying Crabbe more than anyone on the team not named Melo at $17M per year. That would make him the 20th highest paid player in the NBA.

I think you can get Bazemore at $12M - he's UFA and Atlanta might be blowing it up.

Give me Jennings and Bazemore.

As much as we need shooting, we need guys who can dribble drive to create penetration to create open shots for those shooters.

I'm sorry, I just don't feel it is realistic to say we can acquire pick 16 in this draft. Or swoop in and overpay the heck out of Crabbe to steal him in RFA. I'm trying to stay within the realm of the realistic. Guys here talking about trading Rolo for Teague... it's not happening. And then people tell me I'm the one with delusions when I wonder if Phil was told he couldn't hire Rambis! No! I'm delusional. But the Knicks are gonna sign Durant and Lebron and trade Rolo for Teague. Ok!

You seem to be stuck in the mind of wanting slashers. We need SHOOTERS!

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:
I simply dont want Bazemore after really watching him--Id rather tank than pay him.

I think that is fair. Lot of dudes gonna get overpaid this summer. I think it could frankly wind up negatively affecting some careers - like if a guy gets super overpaid and can't live up to the contract.

I don't think guys will get over paid, some one will set the market value for 1st and 2nd tier talent, and that where it will end. some may get incentive contracts (like Anthony davis)

Im telling you Gm's will not over pay 2nd tier players..

helloharv wrote:Simple question --- if we can only sign one legit PG or SG this summer -- what position do you think it our bigger need?

see my signature. we drafted a point guard last year in grant, plus we already have calderon and galloway. we have no draft pick this summer, so we MUST upgrade over afflalo who sucked real real bad for the knicks. turner defends, has length, makes plays in traffic. i have been calling for turner since january or february.

point guard is not a big position in the triangle.

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The more I think about the roster, the more I think that it will not be a huge overhaul this summer.

PG - Wroten / Grant / Calderon (in small doses)
SG - Turner / Afflalo / Galloway / draft a PG/SG in second round
SF - Melo / Lance / (some Afflalo/Turner here)
PF - KP / DWill / (some Melo here)
C - Rolo / Hernangomez / KOQ / (some KP here)

On your main squad you dont have a superior 3 pt shooter in fact your team is by far sub par against the rest of the NBA

This is just one potential. KP can be an elite 3pt shooter. Melo is above average. Afflalo is above average. Calderon is actually a top three point shooter. Lance is average.

Yes, they need to get more shooters. I'm not sure I realistically see us getting any through FA this summer. I know you'll mention the name of restricted free agent from Portland Allen Crabbe and restricted free agent Seth not Steph Curry.

crz when I say guys like Crabbe Valentine Forbes Curry--Im talking the better shooters either free agency or the draft has to offer who can do other things than just shoot as well.. I like one guard who has the speed first step who I think can shoot the mid range out to three well---Barber. I have 0 interest in Bazemore anymore and Jennings is like a plan 4 1 year PG.

Restricted free agency is a non-starter for me. You have to overpay so much that it makes the contract toxic.

Crabbe should be off the list.

Maybe Sacramento is not interested in keeping Curry... though if Rondo leaves, they probably are...

I just don't think you can bank on RFA.

You're talking about paying Crabbe more than anyone on the team not named Melo at $17M per year. That would make him the 20th highest paid player in the NBA.

I think you can get Bazemore at $12M - he's UFA and Atlanta might be blowing it up.

Give me Jennings and Bazemore.

As much as we need shooting, we need guys who can dribble drive to create penetration to create open shots for those shooters.

I'm sorry, I just don't feel it is realistic to say we can acquire pick 16 in this draft. Or swoop in and overpay the heck out of Crabbe to steal him in RFA. I'm trying to stay within the realm of the realistic. Guys here talking about trading Rolo for Teague... it's not happening. And then people tell me I'm the one with delusions when I wonder if Phil was told he couldn't hire Rambis! No! I'm delusional. But the Knicks are gonna sign Durant and Lebron and trade Rolo for Teague. Ok!

I simply dont want Bazemore after really watching him--Id rather tank than pay him.

What's the downside of him though? What didn't you like? He seems like, at worse, a solid 3pt shooter and athletic defender. Those tools are always useful, especially if we are trying to speed up the pace under Hornacek. He seemed like he was trying to do too much at times, but as a player who just broke out, he will need to settle into a role.

dk7th wrote:

helloharv wrote:Simple question --- if we can only sign one legit PG or SG this summer -- what position do you think it our bigger need?

see my signature. we drafted a point guard last year in grant, plus we already have calderon and galloway. we have no draft pick this summer, so we MUST upgrade over afflalo who sucked real real bad for the knicks. turner defends, has length, makes plays in traffic. i have been calling for turner since january or february.

point guard is not a big position in the triangle.

I agree about Turner. I think he's a guy Phil will target. Though I thought that about Monroe last summer and Phil has been known to surprise. Maybe they go in to talk with Turner with a specific dollar value in mind and it's not enough. We shall see.

Out of curiosity - does anyone think Turner AND a PG would work? Like Turner and Jennings? That'd be interesting, but I sort of see Phil sticking with Wroten/Grant/some Calderon at PG and then going for Turner at SG.

NYKBocker wrote:We need a guard that can shoot.

YES! A shooter that can also create, move without the ball and defend 😜

It will be interesting to see if JH finds ways to revive and better utilize these skills if one or both remain with the team.

As I mentioned earlier(many months ago), I think Turner could contribute to the triangle for all sorts of reasons, but if JH is to be believed I don't think that's the type of player they're looking for now.

Chandler wrote:obvious shortcomings, but we should keep in mind Jose and AA have had great year's shooting. Jose in 2012 and 13 was at the very best of 3 point shooters; AA has also had a number of very good years, being top 10 at least once

It will be interesting to see if JH finds ways to revive and better utilize these skills if one or both remain with the team.

As I mentioned earlier(many months ago), I think Turner could contribute to the triangle for all sorts of reasons, but if JH is to be believed I don't think that's the type of player they're looking for now.

Chemistry needs to play a part as well. Finding ways to revive mediocre players is a losing mentality. Neither should ever start another game in their careers. Role players need roles. The Knicks have to focus on who's playing the bulk of the minutes for them. 25-35 minutes for starters and rotation guys. Calderon and Affalo should be on the lie end or on the outside looking in on that equation

I agree on Evan Turner

Chandler wrote:obvious shortcomings, but we should keep in mind Jose and AA have had great year's shooting. Jose in 2012 and 13 was at the very best of 3 point shooters; AA has also had a number of very good years, being top 10 at least once

It will be interesting to see if JH finds ways to revive and better utilize these skills if one or both remain with the team.

As I mentioned earlier(many months ago), I think Turner could contribute to the triangle for all sorts of reasons, but if JH is to be believed I don't think that's the type of player they're looking for now.

in my opinion we have enough shooters, what we need are more playmakers. good playmakers make better shooters out of those they make plays for. i mean passes made in rhythm, with touch and accuracy. nash is the model for this but really anyone with any sort of ability to pass the ball half as good as nash would be a huge benefit to this team. turner has demonstrated just this ability. plus he defends well. he'd be a bargain at 11-12 million but paying him 13-14 should not be ruled out.

dk7th wrote:

Chandler wrote:obvious shortcomings, but we should keep in mind Jose and AA have had great year's shooting. Jose in 2012 and 13 was at the very best of 3 point shooters; AA has also had a number of very good years, being top 10 at least once

It will be interesting to see if JH finds ways to revive and better utilize these skills if one or both remain with the team.

As I mentioned earlier(many months ago), I think Turner could contribute to the triangle for all sorts of reasons, but if JH is to be believed I don't think that's the type of player they're looking for now.

in my opinion we have enough shooters, what we need are more playmakers. good playmakers make better shooters out of those they make plays for. i mean passes made in rhythm, with touch and accuracy. nash is the model for this but really anyone with any sort of ability to pass the ball half as good as nash would be a huge benefit to this team. turner has demonstrated just this ability. plus he defends well. he'd be a bargain at 11-12 million but paying him 13-14 should not be ruled out.

I agree w you and w eny. My comments were meant more to just highlight that shooting and nothing else doesn't sound right. Jose and Aa can shoot. Last year was subpar but it would be wrong to deny they can shoot. Having said that, do you want them playing major roles? My vote is hell no. At this point if they contribute it should be off the bench. And then I still hope JH finds ways to get their relative contribution up.

There are a lot of posts on here professing love for Seth curry, crabbe etc and my comment is don't get in love w the swish. There's a lot more to hoops. We overpaid for Allan Houston. We should learn our lesson. Fool me once : same on you. Fool me twice: shame on me

And I agree w your comments about turner but I don't see us pursuing him given the recent comments by JH

Truth is that it's not very likely this summer will see this team add an elite player. It's gonna have to be players that aren't stars but that can fit the needs of the team. 3nD types for sure.

dk7th wrote:

helloharv wrote:Simple question --- if we can only sign one legit PG or SG this summer -- what position do you think it our bigger need?

see my signature. we drafted a point guard last year in grant, plus we already have calderon and galloway. we have no draft pick this summer, so we MUST upgrade over afflalo who sucked real real bad for the knicks. turner defends, has length, makes plays in traffic. i have been calling for turner since january or february.

point guard is not a big position in the triangle.