Knicks · Would you trade ROlo for Teague? (page 1)

Both KP and Wrotten need time.
Rolo and absence of lead PG works perfectly to facilitate this.
Hornachek hiring playing a game with fans minds making impressions we are ready for prime time and we are not.
We should go at PGs but without giving up peaces which are already in place.
So no to this trade.

Well months ago i made a thread on here that i think the title was something like "i figured it out" or something like that and what i said was that we should sign A.Horford in free agency and trade R.Lopez for J.Teague. I don't think KP is ready to be a full time center and think Horford would be the perfect big man to get cause he can play both the 4 and 5 just like KP. So we'd have two big men that can hit the 3 point shot, lets see teams defend that.

So i think you know my answer to your question.

No.

I don't get the love for Teague. Seems like the Knicks guards took advantage of him or at least he didn't do the reverse when we played ALT. Schroder got more time down the stretch during playoffs. AND he's on the last year of his deal.

I don't think it's enough. RoLo fits in here. If they do want to move KP to center I think that move makes sense but I don't think he's physically mature enough yet.

martin wrote:I don't get the love for Teague. Seems like the Knicks guards took advantage of him or at least he didn't do the reverse when we played ALT. Schroder got more time down the stretch during playoffs. AND he's on the last year of his deal.

I don't think anyone thinks he's great or at least i don't but he is legit and for me it would come down to what kind of contract it would take for him to re-sign with us since he only has a year left on his current deal. I think he can run a team especially if we're able to add another significant player to add to Melo and KP.

He isn't great but he's a good player/point guard.

In a way they are kind of each others equivalent at their respected positions. There the same age and both are good players that have great moments and underwhelming moments as well.

Is it a straight up deal? If so It's not just Teague but you need to factor in the $5.5m it frees up. SO the Knicks would go into FA with $23.5m(w/AA & DW) and $35.5m(w/o). Do players(FAs) think of Teague as a more attractive teammate?

newyorker4ever wrote:

martin wrote:I don't get the love for Teague. Seems like the Knicks guards took advantage of him or at least he didn't do the reverse when we played ALT. Schroder got more time down the stretch during playoffs. AND he's on the last year of his deal.

I don't think anyone thinks he's great or at least i don't but he is legit and for me it would come down to what kind of contract it would take for him to re-sign with us since he only has a year left on his current deal. I think he can run a team especially if we're able to add another significant player to add to Melo and KP.

He isn't great but he's a good player/point guard.

Well for me that's not a good enough reason to make a trade

how about stability?

how about fan stability?

how would this feel to the team if Rolo came here, was a very good player, a very good role model, a very good locker room guy, a very good defender and we trade him for a sulking PG on the decline?

how does this make us look as fans for suggesting this? Maybe this is why players don't care for NY much ... the fans are impulsive/compulsively impatient and unstable.

I wouldn't. I'll take the toughness, heart and effort of Rolo over a temperamental Teague. He's so up and down, even within a quarter. I think Teague's solid but I don't make that trade.

mreinman wrote:how about stability?

how about fan stability?

how would this feel to the team if Rolo came here, was a very good player, a very good role model, a very good locker room guy, a very good defender and we trade him for a sulking PG on the decline?

how does this make us look as fans for suggesting this? Maybe this is why players don't care for NY much ... the fans are impulsive/compulsively impatient and unstable.

This is irrelevant. We don't factor in. More so is the fact its not great to recruit a player, then trade him. Other free agents watch that.

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:how about stability?

how about fan stability?

how would this feel to the team if Rolo came here, was a very good player, a very good role model, a very good locker room guy, a very good defender and we trade him for a sulking PG on the decline?

how does this make us look as fans for suggesting this? Maybe this is why players don't care for NY much ... the fans are impulsive/compulsively impatient and unstable.

This is irrelevant. We don't factor in. More so is the fact its not great to recruit a player, then trade him. Other free agents watch that.

They do watch but they also see that there has been a coaching change and with it may come a change of philosophy. Also, I am not sure Teague is in decline. I seem to remember him dealing with a nagging injury for much of the year. I remember posting that Lopez wasn't that good based of off his last year in Portland. Even though this is the second year his WS/48 has deep I still think he is a good player.

Can you find a FA center that will give you Lopez production? Can you find a FA PG that will give you Teague's production?

yellowboy90 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:how about stability?

how about fan stability?

how would this feel to the team if Rolo came here, was a very good player, a very good role model, a very good locker room guy, a very good defender and we trade him for a sulking PG on the decline?

how does this make us look as fans for suggesting this? Maybe this is why players don't care for NY much ... the fans are impulsive/compulsively impatient and unstable.

This is irrelevant. We don't factor in. More so is the fact its not great to recruit a player, then trade him. Other free agents watch that.

They do watch but they also see that there has been a coaching change and with it may come a change of philosophy. Also, I am not sure Teague is in decline. I seem to remember him dealing with a nagging injury for much of the year. I remember posting that Lopez wasn't that good based of off his last year in Portland. Even though this is the second year his WS/48 has deep I still think he is a good player.

Can you find a FA center that will give you Lopez production? Can you find a FA PG that will give you Teague's production?

players should know that if they come to a team, give it their all and do a great job based on what was asked, they won't get shipped out or the object of continuous trade fodder.

If I went to work for a company, I would hope that they built a morale that would make it look like a good place to work.

martin wrote:I don't get the love for Teague. Seems like the Knicks guards took advantage of him or at least he didn't do the reverse when we played ALT. Schroder got more time down the stretch during playoffs. AND he's on the last year of his deal.

It's not so much that Teague is great, but doing this deal allows you to get a starting quality PG and then still have a max slot to sort out SG and a part time C. Also allows you to move KP to C

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:how about stability?

how about fan stability?

how would this feel to the team if Rolo came here, was a very good player, a very good role model, a very good locker room guy, a very good defender and we trade him for a sulking PG on the decline?

how does this make us look as fans for suggesting this? Maybe this is why players don't care for NY much ... the fans are impulsive/compulsively impatient and unstable.

This is irrelevant. We don't factor in. More so is the fact its not great to recruit a player, then trade him. Other free agents watch that.

They do watch but they also see that there has been a coaching change and with it may come a change of philosophy. Also, I am not sure Teague is in decline. I seem to remember him dealing with a nagging injury for much of the year. I remember posting that Lopez wasn't that good based of off his last year in Portland. Even though this is the second year his WS/48 has deep I still think he is a good player.

Can you find a FA center that will give you Lopez production? Can you find a FA PG that will give you Teague's production?

players should know that if they come to a team, give it their all and do a great job based on what was asked, they won't get shipped out or the object of continuous trade fodder.

If I went to work for a company, I would hope that they built a morale that would make it look like a good place to work.

Okay but what happens when the company is under new management and wants to go in a different direction? Also, we know sports do not work like that regardless.

I just have questions on if RoLo will finish out his contract as a Knick regardless because of Porzingis so the question for me is now or later and what are you getting in return. Will Lopez have the same value when his role might be reduced going forward. It's like Teague in a way because he is a valuable player but people see that Shroeder maybe the future.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:how about stability?

how about fan stability?

how would this feel to the team if Rolo came here, was a very good player, a very good role model, a very good locker room guy, a very good defender and we trade him for a sulking PG on the decline?

how does this make us look as fans for suggesting this? Maybe this is why players don't care for NY much ... the fans are impulsive/compulsively impatient and unstable.

This is irrelevant. We don't factor in. More so is the fact its not great to recruit a player, then trade him. Other free agents watch that.

They do watch but they also see that there has been a coaching change and with it may come a change of philosophy. Also, I am not sure Teague is in decline. I seem to remember him dealing with a nagging injury for much of the year. I remember posting that Lopez wasn't that good based of off his last year in Portland. Even though this is the second year his WS/48 has deep I still think he is a good player.

Can you find a FA center that will give you Lopez production? Can you find a FA PG that will give you Teague's production?

players should know that if they come to a team, give it their all and do a great job based on what was asked, they won't get shipped out or the object of continuous trade fodder.

If I went to work for a company, I would hope that they built a morale that would make it look like a good place to work.

Okay but what happens when the company is under new management and wants to go in a different direction? Also, we know sports do not work like that regardless.

I just have questions on if RoLo will finish out his contract as a Knick regardless because of Porzingis so the question for me is now or later and what are you getting in return. Will Lopez have the same value when his role might be reduced going forward. It's like Teague in a way because he is a valuable player but people see that Shroeder maybe the future.

to me its a lateral move at best and that is not enough to mess with the chemistry and stability.

if a team (or company) changes direction every year, I would go work for or sign with someone else.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:how about stability?

how about fan stability?

how would this feel to the team if Rolo came here, was a very good player, a very good role model, a very good locker room guy, a very good defender and we trade him for a sulking PG on the decline?

how does this make us look as fans for suggesting this? Maybe this is why players don't care for NY much ... the fans are impulsive/compulsively impatient and unstable.

This is irrelevant. We don't factor in. More so is the fact its not great to recruit a player, then trade him. Other free agents watch that.

They do watch but they also see that there has been a coaching change and with it may come a change of philosophy. Also, I am not sure Teague is in decline. I seem to remember him dealing with a nagging injury for much of the year. I remember posting that Lopez wasn't that good based of off his last year in Portland. Even though this is the second year his WS/48 has deep I still think he is a good player.

Can you find a FA center that will give you Lopez production? Can you find a FA PG that will give you Teague's production?

players should know that if they come to a team, give it their all and do a great job based on what was asked, they won't get shipped out or the object of continuous trade fodder.

If I went to work for a company, I would hope that they built a morale that would make it look like a good place to work.

Okay but what happens when the company is under new management and wants to go in a different direction? Also, we know sports do not work like that regardless.

I just have questions on if RoLo will finish out his contract as a Knick regardless because of Porzingis so the question for me is now or later and what are you getting in return. Will Lopez have the same value when his role might be reduced going forward. It's like Teague in a way because he is a valuable player but people see that Shroeder maybe the future.

to me its a lateral move at best and that is not enough to mess with the chemistry and stability.

if a team (or company) changes direction every year, I would go work for or sign with someone else.

It is a lateral move but there are other things that factor into it like smackeddog said. It would free up enough money to go after Fournier and Crabbe/Bazemore/Lee or one of those wings and Horford.

First off I would say that chemistry in this instance is overrated as Lopez and KP have been together for one year and with the coaching change and new players coming in, chemistry would have to be re-established anyway.

I think if Hassan Whiteside signs on as a free agent, then you have to pull the trigger on the Robin Lopez for Jeff Teague trade. We get Teague's full bird rights for next year when his cap hold is $13MM and we should be able to resign him - the bird in hand theory. We should have enough cap space to sign Courtney Lee this year as well.

What most people are missing is that if we use the full $30MM in available cap space and retain Galloway/Thomas on market type deals this year, even with the cap rising to $108MM, we're looking at maybe $12MM in cap space when max salaries for players with 4-6 years of experience would be about $24MM-$25MM (and likely restricted). For players with 7 or more years of years, we're looking at $28-$29MM. With Teague, the available cap space would be about $8MM. Either way, we'll have enough just for bench upgrades. That tells me that you got to try to put together the best team you can this year, which for me is Teague/Lee/Melo/KP/Whiteside. That starting five is pretty solid defensively, with great shot-blocking and rebounding and capable shooting the 3 and playing up-tempo.

What starting line-up would you prefer - these are some potential combinations:

1. Teague/Lee/Melo/KP/Whiteside
2. Teague/Afflalo/Melo/KP/Whiteside
3. Teague/Turner/Melo/KP/Whiteside
4. Rondo/Crabbe/Melo/KP/Lopez
5. Rondo/Johnson/Melo/KP/Lopez
6. Conley/Galloway/Melo/KP/Lopez
6. Calderon/Batum/Melo/KP/Lopez
7. Jennings/Bazemore/Melo/KP/Lopez

I know what my preference is and that's number 1 by far! Adding 2-3 solid building blocks that are on contracts that about 15% cheaper than it will be in a year or two.

It's an interesting trade idea but in the end, I'd vote no. I just feel Jeff Teague is basically a glorified middle-of-the-road NBA PG. He's decent (probably a step up from decent to be fair), he's talented, but he's not top tier. When you get right down to it, what he is is about 15 ppg/6 apg and he's been at that level more or less for the past several seasons. My thinking -- how can we get that production w/o adding any significant payroll and without trading anyone. Could we go out and add a cost-effective PG option in FA like Jerryd Bayless and actually LEAN ON HIM for that type of production? I say yes, we could and I think he'd respond. He's not that far off from that level as it is anyway. I contend this dude has always been talented enough--to me, no one has ever entrusted him enough/leaned on him enough for that level of production yet, but I certainly think he's capable. And the price would be right for Bayless--that's one of the main reasons why I consider him an attractive PG option for us with some vet experience, quite possibly the best option out there pound for pound when you weigh all the factors. Plus, I think he'd welcome the challenge and actually thrive with the increased responsibility/shot attempts. Sometimes that's all it takes for some guys -- different setting coupled with more responsibility. That's how it seemed to work for guys like Chauncey Billups and Kyle Lowry, right? Once thought of as busts and backups, it took a little while but both guys eventually developed into very good NBA lead guards.

We're talking about a guy in Bayless who's developed into a knockdown 40%+ 3-pt shooter and has all the other requisite skills to be a very good lead guard for us, a HUGE step up from Calderon and a guy I feel has comparable if not better raw ability to guys like Teague, Conley Jr, etc.. I'd argue this guy's full potential hasn't been tapped yet:

We could also go out and pay more for a guy like Seth Curry and get that amount of PG production. Or we could pay a premium price (close to max money) for Mike Conley Jr. for that same amount of production (my least favorite option by far -- why pay close to max dollars for a level of production we might be able to get for $3-5mm/yr?). When looking at all of these choices, I vote Jerryd Bayless. After securing Bayless for a good cap-friendly price, I'd double down and go get one of the many decent PGs projected to go in the 2nd round. It's insures JH has plenty of choices to work with and gives us further insurance in case Grant regresses (I'm hoping Grant only builds on his strong close to the season, but you never know), Wroten never pans out, etc.. Bottom line, I don't want to drastically overpay for anything in the NBA anymore. We've tried that in the past so many times and have always failed to get the results we were looking for.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:how about stability?

how about fan stability?

how would this feel to the team if Rolo came here, was a very good player, a very good role model, a very good locker room guy, a very good defender and we trade him for a sulking PG on the decline?

how does this make us look as fans for suggesting this? Maybe this is why players don't care for NY much ... the fans are impulsive/compulsively impatient and unstable.

This is irrelevant. We don't factor in. More so is the fact its not great to recruit a player, then trade him. Other free agents watch that.

They do watch but they also see that there has been a coaching change and with it may come a change of philosophy. Also, I am not sure Teague is in decline. I seem to remember him dealing with a nagging injury for much of the year. I remember posting that Lopez wasn't that good based of off his last year in Portland. Even though this is the second year his WS/48 has deep I still think he is a good player.

Can you find a FA center that will give you Lopez production? Can you find a FA PG that will give you Teague's production?

players should know that if they come to a team, give it their all and do a great job based on what was asked, they won't get shipped out or the object of continuous trade fodder.

If I went to work for a company, I would hope that they built a morale that would make it look like a good place to work.

Okay but what happens when the company is under new management and wants to go in a different direction? Also, we know sports do not work like that regardless.

I just have questions on if RoLo will finish out his contract as a Knick regardless because of Porzingis so the question for me is now or later and what are you getting in return. Will Lopez have the same value when his role might be reduced going forward. It's like Teague in a way because he is a valuable player but people see that Shroeder maybe the future.

to me its a lateral move at best and that is not enough to mess with the chemistry and stability.

if a team (or company) changes direction every year, I would go work for or sign with someone else.

It is a lateral move but there are other things that factor into it like smackeddog said. It would free up enough money to go after Fournier and Crabbe/Bazemore/Lee or one of those wings and Horford.

the money diff is a good point but we only have him for one more year before he asks for some stupidly crazy new contract.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:how about stability?

how about fan stability?

how would this feel to the team if Rolo came here, was a very good player, a very good role model, a very good locker room guy, a very good defender and we trade him for a sulking PG on the decline?

how does this make us look as fans for suggesting this? Maybe this is why players don't care for NY much ... the fans are impulsive/compulsively impatient and unstable.

This is irrelevant. We don't factor in. More so is the fact its not great to recruit a player, then trade him. Other free agents watch that.

They do watch but they also see that there has been a coaching change and with it may come a change of philosophy. Also, I am not sure Teague is in decline. I seem to remember him dealing with a nagging injury for much of the year. I remember posting that Lopez wasn't that good based of off his last year in Portland. Even though this is the second year his WS/48 has deep I still think he is a good player.

Can you find a FA center that will give you Lopez production? Can you find a FA PG that will give you Teague's production?

players should know that if they come to a team, give it their all and do a great job based on what was asked, they won't get shipped out or the object of continuous trade fodder.

If I went to work for a company, I would hope that they built a morale that would make it look like a good place to work.

Okay but what happens when the company is under new management and wants to go in a different direction? Also, we know sports do not work like that regardless.

I just have questions on if RoLo will finish out his contract as a Knick regardless because of Porzingis so the question for me is now or later and what are you getting in return. Will Lopez have the same value when his role might be reduced going forward. It's like Teague in a way because he is a valuable player but people see that Shroeder maybe the future.

to me its a lateral move at best and that is not enough to mess with the chemistry and stability.

if a team (or company) changes direction every year, I would go work for or sign with someone else.

It is a lateral move but there are other things that factor into it like smackeddog said. It would free up enough money to go after Fournier and Crabbe/Bazemore/Lee or one of those wings and Horford.

the money diff is a good point but we only have him for one more year before he asks for some stupidly crazy new contract.

Very true but the Knicks would have his bird rights. Unless Grant turns into a starting PG the Knicks will look for a PG in 2017 anyway. This just gives them a bird in the hand