Knicks · So i'm sitting here watching espn 1st take right now........ (page 4)
ChuckBuck wrote:Gudris wrote:Cartman718 wrote:
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.I see no reason why Melo cant play in SG position ?
Huh?
Let's have him worry about playing some defense at an average level first, before we have him trying to play shooting guard and then eventually point guard, shall we.
Melo already plays defense at an above average level but doesn't get much credit for it. He's just not very consistent with it every time down the floor but he absolutely plays above average defense.
dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable. 
jrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.
by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
That preserves him!!
In all seriousness, NBA players don't have exact odometers given that each is has their own genetic makup. Jordan and Lebron are freaks of nature. Jordan broke his leg but never had any serious injury.
Lebron even better and he has two years in the NBA at an earlier age!
dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
True. Some fans just don't have the intellect or know how to process what a colossal phuck stick dud the resigning of a broken down past his prime athlete this is. Allan Houston all over again.
ChuckBuck wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
True. Some fans just don't have the intellect or know how to process what a colossal phuck stick dud the resigning of a broken down past his prime athlete this is. Allan Houston all over again.
Yes, we know how "Special" you are to have this clairvoyance!
Nalod wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
True. Some fans just don't have the intellect or know how to process what a colossal phuck stick dud the resigning of a broken down past his prime athlete this is. Allan Houston all over again.
Yes, we know how "Special" you are to have this clairvoyance!
Appreciate it!
ChuckBuck wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
True. Some fans just don't have the intellect or know how to process what a colossal phuck stick dud the resigning of a broken down past his prime athlete this is. Allan Houston all over again.
LOLLL i wasn't going that far with melo but i gotta say that post made me laugh. "colossal phuck stick dud" LOOOLLLL
dk7th wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
True. Some fans just don't have the intellect or know how to process what a colossal phuck stick dud the resigning of a broken down past his prime athlete this is. Allan Houston all over again.
LOLLL i wasn't going that far with melo but i gotta say that post made me laugh. "colossal phuck stick dud" LOOOLLLL
LOL, was just typing what was in my head.
dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
or maybe you could explain to all the unenlightened once again about how Denver was going to be NBA worldbeaters after raping us in the "Trade"...
jrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
or maybe you could explain to all the unenlightened once again about how Denver was going to be NBA worldbeaters after raping us in the "Trade"...
2016 and you're still talking about the trade....
Why can't you just drop it, it was sucky ass trade, lose lose for both teams (especially the Knicks), and we double downed on more mediocrity by resigning the geriatric player.
Please move on, it's been 5 years since the disaster.
ChuckBuck wrote:jrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
or maybe you could explain to all the unenlightened once again about how Denver was going to be NBA worldbeaters after raping us in the "Trade"...
2016 and you're still talking about the trade....
Why can't you just drop it, it was sucky ass trade, lose lose for both teams (especially the Knicks), and we double downed on more mediocrity by resigning the geriatric player.
Please move on, it's been 5 years since the disaster.
This from someone who just spent 2 full pages walking us through the 1980's jerking off over Alex English.
Grow up please. This franchise was pure shyt before the Trade, and we made the playoffs immediately when we hadn't done shyt for 6 years prior.
2009-10 New York Knicks 29-53 .354
2009-08 New York Knicks 32-50 .390
2007-08 New York Knicks 23-59 .280
2006-07 New York Knicks 33-49 .402
2005-06 New York Knicks 23-59 .280
2004-05 New York Knicks 33-49 .402
jrodmc wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:jrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:conclusion: you don't understand how teams work and humans interact. Good work thoughjrodmc wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:Cartman718 wrote:dk7th wrote:lopez durant kp with melo off the bench as 6th man extraordinaire would solve chemistry issues and make the knicks a contender. melo is older and breaking down and it'd time to put him in the best position where he can be most effective. only his ego and vanity would be an obstacle but if he wants to win that'd be the route to take. jackson and hornacek could persuade him.yes lets make melo come off the bench after he had his most complete season, after he turned heads around from even naysayers like you.
he's already in pass mode and great at it by the way, averaging 5 assists a game. so lets put him on the bench where all he'd have to do is score.if durant comes to the knicks, you start wroten/grant (as of now) with durant, melo, kp and rolo on the floor. i dont see anyone else starting at SG if durant comes here, do you?
also if we max out durant, i dont think we have enough money left to pay an experienced starting SG.
iguodala, ginobili, havlicek, and i am sure there are others have helped their teams win it all in sixth man roles. it isn't unheard of. you want the same style of ball 1 through 10 and there is zero reason why melo as a leader of a second unit cannot play exactly as great as he did for 30 games last season as a starter. he's here for a few more seasons and this switch would keep him fresher and healthier.
i don't know if it is possible but i'd think a lineup of kp, kd, lopez, turner and galloway would be hard to beat.
then melo, grant, calderon, thomas, hernangomez makes for a deep deep team.
iguodala, ginobili...seriously? were they EVER even the best players even on their own team, were they EVER in the MVP running?
fresher and healthier, yes cut Melo's mins down a bit. You do realize that he has to work so hard with his body because the coach Fisher couldn't run any plays for the team and when Woodson was around he pretty much relegated to iso-Melo ball.You do not start the game with your prize stallions coming off the bench. That just puts more pressure on your own team. You start a lineup of PG, KD, Melo, KP, Lopez.... that starting lineup will send chills down opposing teams.
Invariably, the expectation would be that we'd be leading most teams in scoring by the time its time to sub in the 1st quarter, that's when you have the bench players playing loosey-goosey, because they don't have much pressure on them.
i'm okay with either scenario, only i wonder how well that lineup you favor meshes with only one ball. when i see title teams like the warriors and spurs i see continuity in style of play and very deep benches. so i don't agree with the loosy-goosy because we're up by a few points scenario. i'd rather see relentless pressure to defend by the other team because the dropoff in talent and skill is not as steep when you have carmelo anthony going up against lesser players. iguodala made two starts until the playoffs started. i am not making a direct comaprison between melo and iguodala i am simply pointing out that there are strategies that a coach can use concerning erstwhile starters.
"erstwhile starter". Check.
I can just imagine the economic analyses we will be treated to on this board daily when and if Horny even attempts to put $124MM on the bench.
dk7th, you are truly quotable.
everyone is saying the cap is going way up and that horrible contracts like melo's won't look so bad. by that line of reasoning and to whatever degree you agree that this is the case, you should commensurately be okay with melo off the bench.
1)he just turned thirty-two.
2)he has played 35,000 minutes.
3)last four season he has averaged 64 games per year and is clearly breaking down.by my math from (3) that'd be 64 out of 82 games which is 78%. if you take 78% of 36 minutes the result is 28 minutes per game.
conclusion: he should not be playing starters minutes going forward, if by starting minutes we mean 28+ minutes a night. if you understand price versus value it's an easy decision to make, ie getting maximum value out of an asset for the remainder of its usability. playing him more than that given his history is higher risk and lower reward.
or maybe understanding what it takes to win is above your pay grade
or maybe you could explain to all the unenlightened once again about how Denver was going to be NBA worldbeaters after raping us in the "Trade"...
2016 and you're still talking about the trade....
Why can't you just drop it, it was sucky ass trade, lose lose for both teams (especially the Knicks), and we double downed on more mediocrity by resigning the geriatric player.
Please move on, it's been 5 years since the disaster.
This from someone who just spent 2 full pages walking us through the 1980's jerking off over Alex English.
Grow up please. This franchise was pure shyt before the Trade, and we made the playoffs immediately when we hadn't done shyt for 6 years prior.
2009-10 New York Knicks 29-53 .354
2009-08 New York Knicks 32-50 .390
2007-08 New York Knicks 23-59 .280
2006-07 New York Knicks 33-49 .402
2005-06 New York Knicks 23-59 .280
2004-05 New York Knicks 33-49 .402
Thank God for that trade! We'd never be able to win that......
Uh what did we win again?