Because KP and Melo can shoot, it could work. Knicks would have to formulate a wag to get everyone on the same page. I think Hornacek is the right coach for that.
Money wise its possible. Guys would have to leave some money on the table. Or the Knicks could try to trade a guy assuming Affalo and Derrick opt out.
EnySpree wrote:Because KP and Melo can shoot, it could work. Knicks would have to formulate a wag to get everyone on the same page. I think Hornacek is the right coach for that. Money wise its possible. Guys would have to leave some money on the table. Or the Knicks could try to trade a guy assuming Affalo and Derrick opt out.
You can't meaningfully advance in the playoffs with 3 guys who can't shoot. The floor spacing would be so poor with Rondo and DeRozan that it negates whatever other contributions they make. Teams could simply pack the paint, which would have a detrimental impact on the whole.
Don't underestimate Derozan. The same arguments against Derozan with respect to 3pt shooting would have to be said against both Kobe and Michael. That said, Derozan is the elite slasher in today's game. Try packing the paint with a 7'3 C at the 3 pt line. Derozan averages 8 free throws per game. That's between 4 and 8 fouls drawn per game. He puts players back on the bench. Do not undervalue that.
Rondo's 3 pt percentage was 36% last year. Not terrible. His FT shooting sucks. But he doesn't get to the line much. You could convince me not to sign rondo, but if we are getting him at a discount, why would you?
If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt.
That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
If you were able to add both Rondo & Derozan, I think most everyone would call that a coup.
But, call me a hater, I just don't see that squad as being able to get past the first round.
And if that is the case, then we're basically stuck at mediocrity for as long as those players are signed and taking up the bulk of our cap- because mid to late first round picks aren't going to get us over the hump.
KP is going to be a special player, but I don't see him being MJ/LeBron/Kobe great.
ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
I hate when people use stats incorrectly. Derozan shot 33.8 percent from 3. Take out the 12 heaves and he's a 37% shooter. That's not ineffective. It's average to above average. He shot 46% from the floor. He got to the line at a high percentage. All this results in a TS% of 55%. Not amazing but among guards it's pretty good. Assume that with a system that will reduce his volume and craft to his talents that those numbers can improve. They can. I take Durant all day over Derozan. But if I can take the top player from the top team in my division, I do it all day.
EwingsGlass wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
I hate when people use stats incorrectly. Derozan shot 33.8 percent from 3. Take out the 12 heaves and he's a 37% shooter. That's not ineffective. It's average to above average. He shot 46% from the floor. He got to the line at a high percentage. All this results in a TS% of 55%. Not amazing but among guards it's pretty good. Assume that with a system that will reduce his volume and craft to his talents that those numbers can improve. They can. I take Durant all day over Derozan. But if I can take the top player from the top team in my division, I do it all day.
Dude, the guy is a career 28.3% three point shooter. There's no floor balance when Melo and KP get keyed on or doubled.
Next.
I can see Derozan paired with a sharp shooter. Rondo is not that guy. Rondo does not space the court.
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Because KP and Melo can shoot, it could work. Knicks would have to formulate a wag to get everyone on the same page. I think Hornacek is the right coach for that. Money wise its possible. Guys would have to leave some money on the table. Or the Knicks could try to trade a guy assuming Affalo and Derrick opt out.
You can't meaningfully advance in the playoffs with 3 guys who can't shoot. The floor spacing would be so poor with Rondo and DeRozan that it negates whatever other contributions they make. Teams could simply pack the paint, which would have a detrimental impact on the whole.
I agree... if you have Rondo you need a shooter next to him. Rondo and Derozen could work but the Knicks don't have any shooters backing them up either. I'd enjoy winning those 45-50 games though.
EwingsGlass wrote:Don't underestimate Derozan. The same arguments against Derozan with respect to 3pt shooting would have to be said against both Kobe and Michael. That said, Derozan is the elite slasher in today's game. Try packing the paint with a 7'3 C at the 3 pt line. Derozan averages 8 free throws per game. That's between 4 and 8 fouls drawn per game. He puts players back on the bench. Do not undervalue that.Rondo's 3 pt percentage was 36% last year. Not terrible. His FT shooting sucks. But he doesn't get to the line much. You could convince me not to sign rondo, but if we are getting him at a discount, why would you?
I was gonna bring up that Rondo hit the 3 point shot pretty good last year and i actually though he was just over 38% last year but not sure. Like Eny said, we do have KP and Melo who are both dangerous from 3 and we could always add another guard on a cheaper contract that can hit the 3 ball like Troy Daniels.
It could work only because they are both very good players, but the 3pt situation would be a problem. I would prefer either paring DeRozan with a shooting PG like Dellavedova or Bayless or paring Rondo with Bazemore, Fournier, Crabbe etc.
EwingsGlass wrote:Don't underestimate Derozan. The same arguments against Derozan with respect to 3pt shooting would have to be said against both Kobe and Michael. That said, Derozan is the elite slasher in today's game. Try packing the paint with a 7'3 C at the 3 pt line. Derozan averages 8 free throws per game. That's between 4 and 8 fouls drawn per game. He puts players back on the bench. Do not undervalue that.Rondo's 3 pt percentage was 36% last year. Not terrible. His FT shooting sucks. But he doesn't get to the line much. You could convince me not to sign rondo, but if we are getting him at a discount, why would you?
agree totally. Also when you're shooting FT you don't give up any transitions, and even if you're driving (and missing and not drawing fouls) as a general matter your defense is better established. Not true with long missed threes which can lead to easier buckets the other way
ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
this would be more convincing if the Celts hadn't won with Rondo, and were essentially robbed the next year in game 6. Of course Rondo had Allen as his back court mate and PP is a clutch shooter too
I think the key will be just how good is Derozan, when he's not the #1 option. Will he be better from less attention, or worse from less volume? That to me is the critical question, and I don't have a clue to the answer
ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
I agree 100%, free throws are a must, and in todays NBA if your guards are not hitting 3's at 35 to 40%, you won't go far..
The spurs and the Rapts just experience similar fate
Chandler wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
this would be more convincing if the Celts hadn't won with Rondo, and were essentially robbed the next year in game 6. Of course Rondo had Allen as his back court mate and PP is a clutch shooter too
I think the key will be just how good is Derozan, when he's not the #1 option. Will he be better from less attention, or worse from less volume? That to me is the critical question, and I don't have a clue to the answer
Fair point. I think a front court with KP/Melo will give him a ton of room to drive. Not sure whether ROLO really works in Horny's spread offense or not as it clogs up Melo's post game.
knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
I agree 100%, free throws are a must, and in todays NBA if your guards are not hitting 3's at 35 to 40%, you won't go far..
The spurs and the Rapts just experience similar fate
Yup. You pointed out the exact reason in bold. Horny ran today's NBA offense in Phoenix with some success.
Right now, he has zero point guards and shooting guards to execute his vision. How the phuck would he run that pace and space with 2 guards who can't shoot in Rondo and Derozan?
The Cavs and Warriors proved you need shooting from all angles even the coach, trainer, or ball boy has to be able to hit a 3. From the Point all the way to the Center. If Draymond Green isn't suspended and plays his stretch 5 role last night, the series is essentially over.
ChuckBuck wrote:knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
I agree 100%, free throws are a must, and in todays NBA if your guards are not hitting 3's at 35 to 40%, you won't go far..
The spurs and the Rapts just experience similar fate
Yup. You pointed out the exact reason in bold. Horny ran today's NBA offense in Phoenix with some success.
Right now, he has zero point guards and shooting guards to execute his vision. How the phuck would he run that pace and space with 2 guards who can't shoot in Rondo and Derozan?
The Cavs and Warriors proved you need shooting from all angles even the coach, trainer, or ball boy has to be able to hit a 3. From the Point all the way to the Center. If Draymond Green isn't suspended and plays his stretch 5 role last night, the series is essentially over.
I think you have to hope he ran what was best for his personnel at the time. I think the Knicks will look different as a team after this offseason. I am hoping one guy the Knicks add is Gerald Green. He played great for Hornacek in Phoenix.
CrushAlot wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
I agree 100%, free throws are a must, and in todays NBA if your guards are not hitting 3's at 35 to 40%, you won't go far..
The spurs and the Rapts just experience similar fate
Yup. You pointed out the exact reason in bold. Horny ran today's NBA offense in Phoenix with some success.
Right now, he has zero point guards and shooting guards to execute his vision. How the phuck would he run that pace and space with 2 guards who can't shoot in Rondo and Derozan?
The Cavs and Warriors proved you need shooting from all angles even the coach, trainer, or ball boy has to be able to hit a 3. From the Point all the way to the Center. If Draymond Green isn't suspended and plays his stretch 5 role last night, the series is essentially over.
I think you have to hope he ran what was best for his personnel at the time. I think the Knicks will look different as a team after this offseason. I am hoping one guy the Knicks add is Gerald Green. He played great for Hornacek in Phoenix.
I think DeRozan is highly unrealistic.
But Green is an interesting name. Knicks could snag him with Miami's cap issues.
crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
I agree 100%, free throws are a must, and in todays NBA if your guards are not hitting 3's at 35 to 40%, you won't go far..
The spurs and the Rapts just experience similar fate
Yup. You pointed out the exact reason in bold. Horny ran today's NBA offense in Phoenix with some success.
Right now, he has zero point guards and shooting guards to execute his vision. How the phuck would he run that pace and space with 2 guards who can't shoot in Rondo and Derozan?
The Cavs and Warriors proved you need shooting from all angles even the coach, trainer, or ball boy has to be able to hit a 3. From the Point all the way to the Center. If Draymond Green isn't suspended and plays his stretch 5 role last night, the series is essentially over.
I think you have to hope he ran what was best for his personnel at the time. I think the Knicks will look different as a team after this offseason. I am hoping one guy the Knicks add is Gerald Green. He played great for Hornacek in Phoenix.
I think DeRozan is highly unrealistic.
But Green is an interesting name. Knicks could snag him with Miami's cap issues.
this... good call. I wonder what Green's price would be? But a Rondo/Green addition is very feasible.
crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:knicks1248 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If your back court can't shoot free throws and 3s efficiently, you ain't winning shyt. That's what the playoffs and/or history has told me. Big time pass.
I agree 100%, free throws are a must, and in todays NBA if your guards are not hitting 3's at 35 to 40%, you won't go far..
The spurs and the Rapts just experience similar fate
Yup. You pointed out the exact reason in bold. Horny ran today's NBA offense in Phoenix with some success.
Right now, he has zero point guards and shooting guards to execute his vision. How the phuck would he run that pace and space with 2 guards who can't shoot in Rondo and Derozan?
The Cavs and Warriors proved you need shooting from all angles even the coach, trainer, or ball boy has to be able to hit a 3. From the Point all the way to the Center. If Draymond Green isn't suspended and plays his stretch 5 role last night, the series is essentially over.
I think you have to hope he ran what was best for his personnel at the time. I think the Knicks will look different as a team after this offseason. I am hoping one guy the Knicks add is Gerald Green. He played great for Hornacek in Phoenix.
I think DeRozan is highly unrealistic.
But Green is an interesting name. Knicks could snag him with Miami's cap issues.
Why do you think DeRozan is unrealistic? I get that Toronto has been successful and isn't a bad city, but if he wants to play in a sexier city (and a basketball city) I think we're very attractive option. It comes down to what he wants. (Personally if i were in his shoes i'd be more wary of LA, which a lot of people speculate as a destination. That could be a sh!t show)
Not a fan of, or against, Green. He came into the league with a lot of fanfare and hasn't done much other than tantalize. He could be a gap filler but not seeing him as a piece of the puzzle
