Knicks · Tank? (page 1)

Just saying, if you got frozen out of FA, would you tank again to make use of that draft pick we have next year? Save all that cap space for next year. You'd walk into the next free agency with a ton of money, a lotto pick an older Melo with 2 years left on his contract, Rolo with two years left, and older and stronger KP, one more year on Grant...

Would have to suffer through another year, but that squad, a lotto pick and 50mm in cap space would be dangerous...

People say we don't need stars, but every team doing well has three stars. We have 1 and a rising star.

Durant would be a game changer. Derozan might be. Lebron would be. Not much else that would guaranty us as real contenders this year. Odds are less than 10% we get any of these guys.

Feels like loser talk, but would you give up one more year to put us in the best possible position for the next 5?

Ps. Do not turn this into a trade Melo thread. Trade Kicker + No Trade Clause = #Me7o4Life

EwingsGlass wrote:Just saying, if you got frozen out of FA, would you tank again to make use of that draft pick we have next year? Save all that cap space for next year. You'd walk into the next free agency with a ton of money, a lotto pick an older Melo with 2 years left on his contract, Rolo with two years left, and older and stronger KP, one more year on Grant...

Would have to suffer through another year, but that squad, a lotto pick and 50mm in cap space would be dangerous...

People say we don't need stars, but every team doing well has three stars. We have 1 and a rising star.

Durant would be a game changer. Derozan might be. Lebron would be. Not much else that would guaranty us as real contenders this year. Odds are less than 10% we get any of these guys.

Feels like loser talk, but would you give up one more year to put us in the best possible position for the next 5?

Ps. Do not turn this into a trade Melo thread. Trade Kicker + No Trade Clause = #Me7o4Life

this is what ive been saying FOR A LONG TIMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE lol

not necesarily tank...but dont spend desperate money trying to lure a free agent...justdraft a gratPG

callmened wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Just saying, if you got frozen out of FA, would you tank again to make use of that draft pick we have next year? Save all that cap space for next year. You'd walk into the next free agency with a ton of money, a lotto pick an older Melo with 2 years left on his contract, Rolo with two years left, and older and stronger KP, one more year on Grant...

Would have to suffer through another year, but that squad, a lotto pick and 50mm in cap space would be dangerous...

People say we don't need stars, but every team doing well has three stars. We have 1 and a rising star.

Durant would be a game changer. Derozan might be. Lebron would be. Not much else that would guaranty us as real contenders this year. Odds are less than 10% we get any of these guys.

Feels like loser talk, but would you give up one more year to put us in the best possible position for the next 5?

Ps. Do not turn this into a trade Melo thread. Trade Kicker + No Trade Clause = #Me7o4Life

this is what ive been saying FOR A LONG TIMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE lol

not necesarily tank...but dont spend desperate money trying to lure a free agent...justdraft a gratPG

Hmm. I get scared of being mired in mediocrity. Be the best or the worst seems to be the business model. Except we have to distance ourselves from losing culture.

I advocate we not tank, but more important Starphuck!
Have a plan and stick to it.

EwingsGlass wrote:

callmened wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Just saying, if you got frozen out of FA, would you tank again to make use of that draft pick we have next year? Save all that cap space for next year. You'd walk into the next free agency with a ton of money, a lotto pick an older Melo with 2 years left on his contract, Rolo with two years left, and older and stronger KP, one more year on Grant...

Would have to suffer through another year, but that squad, a lotto pick and 50mm in cap space would be dangerous...

People say we don't need stars, but every team doing well has three stars. We have 1 and a rising star.

Durant would be a game changer. Derozan might be. Lebron would be. Not much else that would guaranty us as real contenders this year. Odds are less than 10% we get any of these guys.

Feels like loser talk, but would you give up one more year to put us in the best possible position for the next 5?

Ps. Do not turn this into a trade Melo thread. Trade Kicker + No Trade Clause = #Me7o4Life

this is what ive been saying FOR A LONG TIMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE lol

not necesarily tank...but dont spend desperate money trying to lure a free agent...justdraft a gratPG

Hmm. I get scared of being mired in mediocrity. Be the best or the worst seems to be the business model. Except we have to distance ourselves from losing culture.

since next yrs draft will be deep, a team who just misses the playoffs can get a SOLID player in the draft

It's a building process. Either way, it's a very good thing we have our pick next year. At least if we have another tough season, there'll be a reward for it.

But yeah, when you look at the finals - it ain't Kevin Love who is helping Lebron, it is lotto picks Kyrie Irving and Tristan Thompson. Just think, he could also have lotto pick Andrew Wiggins...

I would really like to add that top pick that KP can grow with.

to me, free agents arent always the answer. they usually cost a lot of money and theyre past their prime. plus lately, the good ones dont seem to want to come here. if rather get a 2nd or 3rd tier free agent - like crabbe. take our chances with grant and wroten in a new system and the chips fall where they may (which is most likely 30-40 wins - with either a free agent or not). like my "signature" says, id rather save money and have it roll over a couple yrs later when the cap STOPS increasing.

I know there will be the temptation to chase a free agent PG and overpay them. In my opinion, with only $30 mill to spend, the knicks wont have enough to upgrade their roster. The knicks should look to next yrs 2017 draft to select a franchise PG (during "off days" I watch HS bball). Now Im not advocating to tank but im being realistic when i say, the knicks wont be a good team overnight (sure i hope we get KDurant and other game changers but i doubt it). Sure they could sneak into the playoffs but i doubt it. next yrs NBA draft will be 15 deep full of PGs and PFs

To me the DRAFT is where it all starts. draft a franchise PG (that will cost 5 mill at age 19, instead of paying 25 mill to a 29 yr old). There are about 4 ELITE muscular (>6-3), PGs and what impresses me is their intelligence, defense and shooting ability that complements their athleticism. I've seen these guys play in action in various games: please see high lights below

- Dennis Smith (NC State) =
- Lonzo Ball (UCLA) = best passer in the draft
- Markelle Fultz (Washington) - my favorite, mr versatile and GREAT passer =
- Frank Jackson (Duke) = strongest athlete =

These are simply youtube tapes - these kids arent perfect. and you never know what will happen during their freshman years. my overall point (no pun intended) is that the knicks shouldnt go panicking for a free agent PG - now or next yr. Next yrs draft will be like 15 deep (since there are even better PFs in the class) so one of these kids will be available

Overall = be patient, build around KP and a franchise home grown PG and then save your free agent money to buy role players to support the 2 young building blocks. Either one of these guys would do just fine. boy would i love the knicks to get Markelle

SCREW THAT!!! The Tanking days are over. Unless it's legit injuries there's no way this team is going to tank and they should be able to play well enough to win games and compete for a playoff spot. It's really not likely that the Knicks won't be able to get a reasonable upgrade at the guard spots.

KP isn't working hard just to TANK! From now on this is about building a winner.

i concur - the goal shouldnt be to tank. despite being devoid a good talent, these guys work too hard. my only point was dont go overspending on starPhucks just to get an older PG. save money and build thru the draft

callmened wrote:i concur - the goal shouldnt be to tank. despite being devoid a good talent, these guys work too hard. my only point was dont go overspending on starPhucks just to get an older PG. save money and build thru the draft

This summer Phil is gonna go for the gusto IMO. I expect that Phil is going to go HARD after a vet PG or SG to make a run over the next 3 years. We could easily have 3 stars with one good FA signing. KP, Melo and a quality guard or 2 and this will be a legit playoff team. How far they go will depend on the quality of depth Phil can build. This team is not that far off if he can get that 3rd star.

i agree. but i'll believe it once i see it. so far we've acquired mainly role players via free agency. and thats fine. i just hope they dont panic or over spend in order to acquire this 3rd star - unless its KDurant, Lebron or some kind of game changer

callmened wrote:i agree. but i'll believe it once i see it. so far we've acquired mainly role players via free agency. and thats fine. i just hope they dont panic or over spend in order to acquire this 3rd star - unless its KDurant, Lebron or some kind of game changer

It may be a Rondo, Conley or a couple of lesser up and coming players. This is much different than last year. This is the 17 win squad with no future. Players know KP is legit. Also last offseason was actually pretty good since they added some needed role players. The team has fewer holes to fill. But more importantly despite 32 wins this is now a much more attractive FA destination. With KP, Melo, RoLo and JH in charge. IMO the Knicks will not strike out. Phil, JH, Melo and KP will be a very convincing sales group this summer. FA's will see how they fit in this scenario.

as long as we dont overpay for conley or rondo. i dont think a core of melo, kp and conley/rondo has a high ceiling. sure maybe 45 wins and a 1st rd exit for a few yrs - thats it

id rather build around two young stars like kp and a pg (on cheap contracts) with the team for 7 yrs. then add free agents around 2 young stars for close to a decade

I wish we'd tanked a little harder for Lebron in 2003.

crzymdups wrote:I wish we'd tanked a little harder for Lebron in 2003.

Or Curry as that was more realistic. Couple extra losses and he would of been drafted a Knick and traded for Melo

YES

I think we have to be realistic and plan with our target being 3-5 years down the line, not this season. It's just like aiming at a moving target - you have to lead or you miss.

What is our goal? Mediocrity, a possible 8 seed for the next few years, wasting Melo's last few years of meaningful production?

Great, then maybe signing Rondo & some other FA is the best approach- because best case is we replicate our 54 win team- which was one and down and then crashed and burned when our vets ran out of gas.

Or, are we trying to build a championship caliber roster? KP is one part of that roster, but we're missing pillars, and the only way to get those is to land a top pick - not a mid round pick.

Honestly, I kinda hope the Cavs win & LeBron goes to LAC and we trade Melo there for Griffin & do a proper reset & rebuild.

I mean it's pretty obvious. 2016 Draft class suck dik and 2017 has the entire Kentucky, Kansas, and Duke draft classes in it. It would be illogical not to tank when you can get a stud to play alongside KP for the next decade.

Also save the phucking money for next year. NO CONLEYS, NO BATUMS, NO FOURNIERS, NO BEALS.....save it for real max players for chrissakes!

http://hoopshype.com/2016/05/14/nba-free...

franco12 wrote:YES

I think we have to be realistic and plan with our target being 3-5 years down the line, not this season. It's just like aiming at a moving target - you have to lead or you miss.

What is our goal? Mediocrity, a possible 8 seed for the next few years, wasting Melo's last few years of meaningful production?

Great, then maybe signing Rondo & some other FA is the best approach- because best case is we replicate our 54 win team- which was one and down and then crashed and burned when our vets ran out of gas.

Or, are we trying to build a championship caliber roster? KP is one part of that roster, but we're missing pillars, and the only way to get those is to land a top pick - not a mid round pick.

Honestly, I kinda hope the Cavs win & LeBron goes to LAC and we trade Melo there for Griffin & do a proper reset & rebuild.

In the absence of adding a KD or Lebron, I think the chances of winning it all is like catching lightning in a bottle. Look, Dallas never added superstar talent next to Dirk and they pulled a chip, so did Detroit, but those teams are much rarer than this obsession with three stars. It's a three star league. Golden State has a system and a unicorn. That system has good players looking great. And a great player looking legendary. I still believe in system basketball, I just think the system needs superstars to compete these days. You put stars into system ball and you get a dynasty.

ChuckBuck wrote:I mean it's pretty obvious. 2016 Draft class suck dik and 2017 has the entire Kentucky, Kansas, and Duke draft classes in it. It would be illogical not to tank when you can get a stud to play alongside KP for the next decade.

Also save the phucking money for next year. NO CONLEYS, NO BATUMS, NO FOURNIERS, NO BEALS.....save it for real max players for chrissakes!

http://hoopshype.com/2016/05/14/nba-free...

That I agree on. Why spend so much on moderate non superstars? KD or Lebron. Maybe Derozan. No one else for me.

EwingsGlass wrote:

franco12 wrote:YES

I think we have to be realistic and plan with our target being 3-5 years down the line, not this season. It's just like aiming at a moving target - you have to lead or you miss.

What is our goal? Mediocrity, a possible 8 seed for the next few years, wasting Melo's last few years of meaningful production?

Great, then maybe signing Rondo & some other FA is the best approach- because best case is we replicate our 54 win team- which was one and down and then crashed and burned when our vets ran out of gas.

Or, are we trying to build a championship caliber roster? KP is one part of that roster, but we're missing pillars, and the only way to get those is to land a top pick - not a mid round pick.

Honestly, I kinda hope the Cavs win & LeBron goes to LAC and we trade Melo there for Griffin & do a proper reset & rebuild.

In the absence of adding a KD or Lebron, I think the chances of winning it all is like catching lightning in a bottle. Look, Dallas never added superstar talent next to Dirk and they pulled a chip, so did Detroit, but those teams are much rarer than this obsession with three stars. It's a three star league. Golden State has a system and a unicorn. That system has good players looking great. And a great player looking legendary. I still believe in system basketball, I just think the system needs superstars to compete these days. You put stars into system ball and you get a dynasty.

Does Cleveland even run a system? It's called give it to Lebron and get the phuck out the way! Maybe throw a pick to get a mismatch like when Lebron had the smaller Curry on him.

Same with OKC with KD and Westbrook. ISO city. I don't mind ISO if it leads to easy buckets with a dish to a cutter or efficient fast paced offense, not that Woodson clear out dribble 20 second garbage.