good writeup. The grade is premature because we simply don't have any way of measuring the success at this point. In a week from now if we sign a high caliber FA who says he was enticed to play with the core of Rose/Melo/KP than the deal gets and A. If Rose is an all star and the Knicks are a 45 win playoff team its an A. There are many factors that could swing it to an F.
On paper if you MUST give it a grade C seems fair as its probably a lateral move, but really any grade is premature. In any case best of luck with the writing. Tough field.
We will see answer when season starts :)
By the way , anybody knows when they publish schedule for next season ? im from Latvia and want to plan my trip to see first game in Garden
fishmike wrote:good writeup. The grade is premature because we simply don't have any way of measuring the success at this point. In a week from now if we sign a high caliber FA who says he was enticed to play with the core of Rose/Melo/KP than the deal gets and A. If Rose is an all star and the Knicks are a 45 win playoff team its an A. There are many factors that could swing it to an F.On paper if you MUST give it a grade C seems fair as its probably a lateral move, but really any grade is premature. In any case best of luck with the writing. Tough field.
This depends on how you're grading. If you grading on the merits of the trade or the results. Obviously that is 2 different timeframes. The current answer IMO is a Knicks Win. We'll find out about the future component after we see the results at the end of next season. For right now Rose changes the balance and functionality of this team based on the stated goals of Phil and Hornacek. RoLo does not do that for the Bulls. The Knicks are simply filling in a C and SG to round out a starting 5. RoLo doesn't change the very huge questions for the Bulls. The finals judgement on the actual results will come later.
Knicks Won this trade obviously. They always have the fail-safe to tank if Rose slips on a banana peel or tears his scrotum on the way to practice.
Best case playoffs and 1st round Brexit. Worst case, top 5 draft pick and $60mill in cap space for 2017 if Phil doesn't sign any long terms.
WIN WIN all the way.
Gudris wrote:We will see answer when season starts :)By the way , anybody knows when they publish schedule for next season ? im from Latvia and want to plan my trip to see first game in Garden
knicks vs. OKC??? any thoughts on Sabonis?
Knicks may have overpaid but they still win hands down. Really not much of a question in my book. I love Rolo but he is much more easily replaced or surpassed, e.g. Noah even Mozgov to a lesser degree
Rose is a bit of an enigma at the moment but worst case we get extreme flexibility next season; Best case he regains all star caliber form and we still have great flexibility next season. He's 6'3" and younger than Conley. In theory should be entering his prime, but even if he's slowed, the game itself has now slowed down for him, he's more mature, etc. He can start pitching instead of just blazing fastballs (something I'm not sure Westbrook can ever do -- not in his DNA)
obviously chemistry will be key, i.e., how much they each respect and trust each other. Im comforted that Melo [and for that matter KD] have played with Rose and everyone seems to be saying the right things and look genuine doing so. We shall see....
I enjoyed reading your write-up. The grade of C feels a bit low - if I were GM and deem a potential trade to be a "C" I likely do NOT pull the trigger... but I think the Knicks made the right call here
appreciate the love guys.
to comment to a few different posters - it's not premature. you can grade the FRAMEWORK and POTENTIAL of the deal, obviously.
I didn't claim to be a soothsayer, but I've been involved heavily in basketball in one way or the other since I was 5. I've been coached by college coaches (and an NBA HOF), been in camps since I was a kid, watched 80's ball when I was just a boy IN THE 90'S. You get the point.
I have a feel for the game. It's like a 6th sense. Sure, anything can happen. Rose could grow yellow skin and take hormone pills and become Pikachu. But I did grade it both on its surface and based on several future projections and how it fits into the team's vision (which is why it ultimately got a TBD).
The Bulls on the other hand...
JrZyHuStLa wrote:Very nice post. Good luck with your writing.Briggs is just mad you didn't post a YouTube highlight video of the guy we should be taking with Chicago's 2nd round pick (who I assure you won't even last more than a season in the league).
Thanks for the first sentence.
But don't you think it's a bit premature and ignorant to assume for no particular reason that the 2nd round pick wont amount to anything? I mean geez, I could easily say "I assure you he'll become the next Draymond Green or Isaiah Thomas or Manu Ginobili".
You don't know, I don't know. But it's a valuable asset to have in a stacked draft class. If it's in the low 30's or high 40's I ASSURE you you'll be changing your tune, because that's a non-guaranteed contract on the cheap that COULD turn out to be a rotation player. You never know.
home33 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Very nice post. Good luck with your writing.Briggs is just mad you didn't post a YouTube highlight video of the guy we should be taking with Chicago's 2nd round pick (who I assure you won't even last more than a season in the league).
Thanks for the first sentence.
But don't you think it's a bit premature and ignorant to assume for no particular reason that the 2nd round pick wont amount to anything? I mean geez, I could easily say "I assure you he'll become the next Draymond Green or Isaiah Thomas or Manu Ginobili".
You don't know, I don't know. But it's a valuable asset to have in a stacked draft class. If it's in the low 30's or high 40's I ASSURE you you'll be changing your tune, because that's a non-guaranteed contract on the cheap that COULD turn out to be a rotation player. You never know.
It looks like the second round pick is the Bulls. I thought it was reported that the Bulls had a pick from the Rockets that they were trading to the Knicks. Realgm has it as the Bulls pick. I think the Bulls are going to be a lottery team next year so it should be a pick in the thirties.
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/f...
home33 wrote:But don't you think it's a bit premature and ignorant to assume for no particular reason that the 2nd round pick wont amount to anything?
History teaches us its a (very) statistically sound conclusion. It's not absolute, but the odds are the odds.
If Vegas offers you anywhere close to even money on a second round pick having a career, pick against and bet everything you have. Your investment would be sounder than a blue chip dividend stocks.
For real.
You don't know, I don't know. But it's a valuable asset to have in a stacked draft class. If it's in the low 30's or high 40's I ASSURE you you'll be changing your tune, because that's a non-guaranteed contract on the cheap that COULD turn out to be a rotation player. You never know.
Yup, you never know. But guess 'won't amount to anything', you'll be right 90% of the time.
Knickoftime wrote:home33 wrote:But don't you think it's a bit premature and ignorant to assume for no particular reason that the 2nd round pick wont amount to anything?
History teaches us its a (very) statistically sound conclusion. It's not absolute, but the odds are the odds.
If Vegas offers you anywhere close to even money on a second round pick having a career, pick against and bet everything you have. Your investment would be sounder than a blue chip dividend stocks.
For real.
You don't know, I don't know. But it's a valuable asset to have in a stacked draft class. If it's in the low 30's or high 40's I ASSURE you you'll be changing your tune, because that's a non-guaranteed contract on the cheap that COULD turn out to be a rotation player. You never know.
Yup, you never know. But guess 'won't amount to anything', you'll be right 90% of the time.
this is what I keep trying to tell nixluva 
I think the best anology I read of the Rose trade is when someone compared it to buying a lotto ticket for $500 instead of $1. Yes, you might when $1000 dollars but you still overpaid for the ticket.
You grade trades by the value of the players and assets involved. Rose Value was crap because he played like crap and is being paid a lot of money. Lopez value was good to great because he has been healthy, plays well, and can adapt to different systems. Grant was a former 1st rd pick and teams usually give rookies a pass if they didn't play well and unlike Rose, Grant genuinely upped his game after the ASB. Calderon is Calderon.
Who the heck was the Knicks bidding against that they had to include two 1st rd caliber assets for a player who under performed the last few years? The knicks lose imho because they do not value their assets and fall into the same trap every trade by trying to unload a contract instead of waiting a year. They did it with Tyson when they added Felton. They did it with Shump when they added JR, even though JR was the best player in the trade. Phil has not learned his lesson and has been in win now mode only to lose later because he is not a good PBO.
Anyone catch the Begley tweet?
Durant called the Knicks a good team now with Rose. Likes Rose, Melo, KP. If a superstar free agent now looks at the team differently, what does that say? Dwight Howard also wants to get in on the Knicks. Sure maybe we do not want Dwight. Sure Durant will probably not become a Knick this summer. This trade has put the Knicks in a different position than a year ago. We are now in win now mode. Melo has at most 3 good years left. Time to try and make a run.
We are never ONLY in win now mode. Team development is always a matter of managing flux. Injuries, contract length, cap adjustments, attitudes, up years v down years, and so on - all add unknown factors that prevent us from assuming we are chasing a chip during the remainder of Melo's "prime". It could still go either way. For example, Rose gets hurt - equation is changed. Melo gets hurt, same thing.
At the same time, we are certainly in win-now mode if we get into the playoffs and appear to have enough to contend for ECF.
Managing flux is Phil and Horny's job. It will be a fun ride.
The best part: our recent moves have dramatically increased our flexibility, which is a perfect match for managing flux.
Excellent write up and even snappier responses. Nice job, newbie!
One question, are we closer now to the playoffs with DRose, Holiday and a 2nd rounder than we obviously weren't with Rolo (who I loved and appreciated all season as a Knick) and Grant? Just asking.
And ChuckBuck saying "win/win" about a Knick's trade that doesn't involve Melo? 
This thread has invaluable contributions to the board just having that singular event in it.
jrodmc wrote:Excellent write up and even snappier responses. Nice job, newbie!One question, are we closer now to the playoffs with DRose, Holiday and a 2nd rounder than we obviously weren't with Rolo (who I loved and appreciated all season as a Knick) and Grant? Just asking.
And ChuckBuck saying "win/win" about a Knick's trade that doesn't involve Melo?
This thread has invaluable contributions to the board just having that singular event in it.
Not everything revolves around your lord and savior.
nyknickzingis wrote:Anyone catch the Begley tweet?
Durant called the Knicks a good team now with Rose. Likes Rose, Melo, KP. If a superstar free agent now looks at the team differently, what does that say? Dwight Howard also wants to get in on the Knicks. Sure maybe we do not want Dwight. Sure Durant will probably not become a Knick this summer. This trade has put the Knicks in a different position than a year ago. We are now in win now mode. Melo has at most 3 good years left. Time to try and make a run.
its says a lot if he is not just saying it and he comes here.
mreinman wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Anyone catch the Begley tweet?
Durant called the Knicks a good team now with Rose. Likes Rose, Melo, KP. If a superstar free agent now looks at the team differently, what does that say? Dwight Howard also wants to get in on the Knicks. Sure maybe we do not want Dwight. Sure Durant will probably not become a Knick this summer. This trade has put the Knicks in a different position than a year ago. We are now in win now mode. Melo has at most 3 good years left. Time to try and make a run.
its says a lot if he is not just saying it and he comes here.
it also says a lot even if he doesn't come here but really thinks the Knicks are now a good team- improved with the Rose trade
BigRedDog wrote:mreinman wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Anyone catch the Begley tweet?
Durant called the Knicks a good team now with Rose. Likes Rose, Melo, KP. If a superstar free agent now looks at the team differently, what does that say? Dwight Howard also wants to get in on the Knicks. Sure maybe we do not want Dwight. Sure Durant will probably not become a Knick this summer. This trade has put the Knicks in a different position than a year ago. We are now in win now mode. Melo has at most 3 good years left. Time to try and make a run.
its says a lot if he is not just saying it and he comes here.
it also says a lot even if he doesn't come here but really thinks the Knicks are now a good team- improved with the Rose trade
how do you know what he really thinks? Cause they asked him if he likes rose on the knicks and he said yes?
mreinman wrote:BigRedDog wrote:mreinman wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Anyone catch the Begley tweet?
Durant called the Knicks a good team now with Rose. Likes Rose, Melo, KP. If a superstar free agent now looks at the team differently, what does that say? Dwight Howard also wants to get in on the Knicks. Sure maybe we do not want Dwight. Sure Durant will probably not become a Knick this summer. This trade has put the Knicks in a different position than a year ago. We are now in win now mode. Melo has at most 3 good years left. Time to try and make a run.
its says a lot if he is not just saying it and he comes here.
it also says a lot even if he doesn't come here but really thinks the Knicks are now a good team- improved with the Rose trade
how do you know what he really thinks? Cause they asked him if he likes rose on the knicks and he said yes?
He did say it. Has there been some mind reading going on to contradict his words?
