Forget the fact that he's older, coming off a major shoulder injury with probably his best days behind him (all reasons I don't love the deal) -
I was listening to Tina Cervasio/Brian Geltzeiler on Sirius XM radio yesterday -- Geltzeiler didn't like the Noah signing at all. He stated the reasons above as well as adding that Noah shot only 41% in the restricted area last year before going down (that's terrible--only a few feet and in, point blank attempts) and brings up several other issues: supposedly he threw Tom Thibodeau under the bus by going to management and complaining that Thibs' practices were running too long and then also threw Fred Hoiberg under the bus as well by bitching to reporters/management about losing his starting spot and how Hoiberg was using him. I wasn't familiar with these issues with his coaches but a simple Google search substantiates that there's something to it.
So what do you make of these issues with coaches? I mean listen, we can't have another Tyson Chandler fake leadership thing with Noah. We need this guy to be a real leader. Say the team goes through a rough patch and Hornacek wants to run a long practice OR say eventually Willy outplays Noah, deserves to start and that's how Hornacek choses to handle it -- we can't have this guy bitching and causing a disruption. Is that not fair to say? What do you guys make of these issues? Anything to be worried about here?
I don't know. He and Rose are tight so they better have gotten this right. Also, Lee came because of Noah. His deal is very fair in this market. I like Noah. Coaches that grind guys do wear out their welcome but it is never a good look to go to management about them.
CrushAlot wrote:I don't know. He and Rose are tight so they better have gotten this right. Also, Lee came because of Noah. His deal is very fair in this market. I like Noah. Coaches that grind guys do wear out their welcome but it is never a good look to go to management about them.
Right? That's what I was thinking. That's Tyson Chandler pseudo leadership nonsense right there. Praying this is a non-issue.
The front office in Chicago was a disaster. Maybe Thibs' practices were too long? The front office put out a weird press release when Thibs was let go. I think a lot went on behind the scenes in Chicago. Hard to know who to blame for what, but that organization was in disfunction.
Also, Noah shot so bad because he had a shoulder injury.
And KP made a good point - the penetration of Rose will allow him to get a ton of easy putback buckets. People fretting over Rose's low FG% at the rim - missed layups mean a lot of putback chances for KP and Noah and even Melo. Noah misses at the rim? KP will have a decent chance at getting a putback if Noah is drawing attention.
Its definetly a concern. I actually wanted noah despite the risks BUT i wanted a 2 year deal
Got to hope that the Knicks did their due diligence before signing Noah.
There is a bit of a gamble here, no doubt.
Noah probably feels he has a lot to prove, though, and we know how fierce of a competitor he is. You have to figure that he has done all he can to repair his body.
I'm hoping, though, that he and Rose don't try to play as if they were still 20 years old...I'm hoping to see some "intelligent athleticism" from them.
Still have to be a bit worried, though. I'm hoping that Hernangomez will be on the team and can step in as a 15+MPG backup for Noah, unless a guy like Plumlee proves worthy of some minutes.
I'm not worried about what Noah brings to the team in the locker room and with the coaches and on the court at all. The only thing that worries me is the 4th year of the contract and the health issues but that is all. I think he's gonna be a really good player for us for 3 years and maybe even the 4th as long as he stays healthy of course but we need his defense and his energy and his vocalness (if that's a word) more than his offense. I think Noah is gonna be rejuvenated in New York and we'll get the best we can get from him while he's with us.
newyorker4ever wrote:I'm not worried about what Noah brings to the team in the locker room and with the coaches and on the court at all. The only thing that worries me is the 4th year of the contract and the health issues but that is all. I think he's gonna be a really good player for us for 3 years and maybe even the 4th as long as he stays healthy of course but we need his defense and his energy and his vocalness (if that's a word) more than his offense. I think Noah is gonna be rejuvenated in New York and we'll get the best we can get from him while he's with us.
nobody questions his leadership or talent. The only concerns is injury issues and the length of contract
Not worried about Noah being a coach killer. If anything, he showed leadership taking the TT issue to mgmt because several players where beetching about hard and extensive practices and then extended minutes and intense demands in regular season that had them tired and perhaps more prone to injury. With Hoiberg, he spun a white lie to press about Noah suggesting his move to bench . Noah being a competitor wasnt happy about not starting but he simply corrected the story when asked. As far as fg %, it had little to do with his shoulder but more to do with less lift due to declining athleticism and spending some time at four which limited his touches in low scoring positions and he's simply not a good outside shooter from ten out , his drives to basket were lower, his # of dunks fell and his confidence is shot waned as other bigs were given more time along with Butler and Rose being focal pts. He still can pass and rebound but Im more concerned about his fall off in some defensive metrics whether it be pts allowed with him on court , blocks per, etc. Again, some of that can be partially explained by time spent at four but some decline is just natural with age. He'll be back at five and hopefully recharged with some extended rest. He's had heavy minutes and a history of lower body injuries and I dont expect great value by fourth year but time will tell
btw, Bulls in 2015/16 were 15-14 with Noah, 27-26 without so hard to gauge what his presence or absence meant. They missed playoffs at 42-40 and decided to replace their heart Noah and their native boy Rose with Lopez and Rondo. Much had to do with team chemistry, $ mgmt, and forward planning so it raises some red flags since teams tend to know their personnel better than anyone. I guess the same can be said for Knicks and Lopez but ..... they are Knicks now and I hope for the best
meloanyk wrote:Not worried about Noah being a coach killer. If anything, he showed leadership taking the TT issue to mgmt because several players where beetching about hard and extensive practices and then extended minutes and intense demands in regular season that had them tired and perhaps more prone to injury. With Hoiberg, he spun a white lie to press about Noah suggesting his move to bench . Noah being a competitor wasnt happy about not starting but he simply corrected the story when asked. As far as fg %, it had little to do with his shoulder but more to do with less lift due to declining athleticism and spending some time at four which limited his touches in low scoring positions and he's simply not a good outside shooter from ten out , his drives to basket were lower, his # of dunks fell and his confidence is shot waned as other bigs were given more time along with Butler and Rose being focal pts. He still can pass and rebound but Im more concerned about his fall off in some defensive metrics whether it be pts allowed with him on court , blocks per, etc. Again, some of that can be partially explained by time spent at four but some decline is just natural with age. He'll be back at five and hopefully recharged with some extended rest. He's had heavy minutes and a history of lower body injuries and I dont expect great value by fourth year but time will tell
The deal scares me, two years would have been optimal - we should have looked at Gasol as well. He won't need to score a lot so that should be ok but if he is on bench and not playing due to injury then the next two guys at 5 on our depth chart (Willy and Plumlee) have never played in the NBA, I am assuming we will trade KOQ. And we don't have any money for another big
meloshouldgo wrote:meloanyk wrote:Not worried about Noah being a coach killer. If anything, he showed leadership taking the TT issue to mgmt because several players where beetching about hard and extensive practices and then extended minutes and intense demands in regular season that had them tired and perhaps more prone to injury. With Hoiberg, he spun a white lie to press about Noah suggesting his move to bench . Noah being a competitor wasnt happy about not starting but he simply corrected the story when asked. As far as fg %, it had little to do with his shoulder but more to do with less lift due to declining athleticism and spending some time at four which limited his touches in low scoring positions and he's simply not a good outside shooter from ten out , his drives to basket were lower, his # of dunks fell and his confidence is shot waned as other bigs were given more time along with Butler and Rose being focal pts. He still can pass and rebound but Im more concerned about his fall off in some defensive metrics whether it be pts allowed with him on court , blocks per, etc. Again, some of that can be partially explained by time spent at four but some decline is just natural with age. He'll be back at five and hopefully recharged with some extended rest. He's had heavy minutes and a history of lower body injuries and I dont expect great value by fourth year but time will tell
The deal scares me, two years would have been optimal - we should have looked at Gasol as well. He won't need to score a lot so that should be ok but if he is on bench and not playing due to injury then the next two guys at 5 on our depth chart (Willy and Plumlee) have never played in the NBA, I am assuming we will trade KOQ. And we don't have any money for another big
You can't assume if we don't sign a player we didn't explore that option. Pau didn't want to come here two years ago, his bother didn't want to come here when he was a free agent, what makes anyone think Pau would've been interested in coming here now?
StarksEwing1 wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:I'm not worried about what Noah brings to the team in the locker room and with the coaches and on the court at all. The only thing that worries me is the 4th year of the contract and the health issues but that is all. I think he's gonna be a really good player for us for 3 years and maybe even the 4th as long as he stays healthy of course but we need his defense and his energy and his vocalness (if that's a word) more than his offense. I think Noah is gonna be rejuvenated in New York and we'll get the best we can get from him while he's with us.
nobody questions his leadership or talent. The only concerns is injury issues and the length of contract
Keep in mind, its been reported that the new deal next year will probably include another amnesty provision. Considering all of these wild contracts I can't imagine teams not welcoming this.
Thibodeau is a well known prick. Given the injuries on that team...maybe he was right. Hoiberg is a bit incompetent. Calling a spade a spade a spade is not a crime. The fact that I only hear about this now makes me happy. Talking with management isn't a problem. Letting it out to the media is. Especially in NY.
EwingsGlass wrote:Thibodeau is a well known prick. Given the injuries on that team...maybe he was right. Hoiberg is a bit incompetent. Calling a spade a spade a spade is not a crime. The fact that I only hear about this now makes me happy. Talking with management isn't a problem. Letting it out to the media is. Especially in NY.
Makes sense. Wonder if the Bulls front office conveniently floated that out there.
newyorker4ever wrote:How can you not love this guy as a New York Knick??
https://t.co/mxog1pYPNE
I do, I just live the Knicks more than I live this guy or any other guy. I would have liked a two year guaranteed deal much better - I was ok with additional years being non guaranteed.
EwingsGlass wrote:Thibodeau is a well known prick. Given the injuries on that team...maybe he was right. Hoiberg is a bit incompetent. Calling a spade a spade a spade is not a crime. The fact that I only hear about this now makes me happy. Talking with management isn't a problem. Letting it out to the media is. Especially in NY.
Great points.
I don't think the Knicks are expecting the old Noah. On this squad they want his experience, passing and leadership. KP is gonna play a lot of Center. They will also have young but capable depth behind them to eat a few minutes. It's a gamble but they will hope to manage it as best they can. Noah isn't going to expected to carry a huge load all by himself.
nixluva wrote:I don't think the Knicks are expecting the old Noah. On this squad they want his experience, passing and leadership. KP is gonna play a lot of Center. They will also have young but capable depth behind them to eat a few minutes. It's a gamble but they will hope to manage it as best they can. Noah isn't going to expected to carry a huge load all by himself.
I agree. Noah will help KP grow and gain experience.. During the game, KP will also play some center and don't forget willie Hernangomez as well. I believe Kp and Hernangomez are our future up in the frontline...
