Knicks · This is all Melo's fault (page 2)
Just a few days ago, I saw Simmons calling Melo a bad businessman for signing long term in 2014 before the cap explosion in 2016. Melo really can't win - he's a bad businessman if he doesn't get the most money possible and he's a selfish jerk if he tries to get the most money possible.
Melo haters should think about the fact that you're with Bill Simmons in this argument.
Welpee wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Not worth rehashing this right now...is this a tongue in cheek thread?Or when your GM wants to do something sensible but the owners butts in and wants to make things happen now.I do believe that if Phil does have designs on Westbrook, and Westbrook has an interest in the Knicks, the Melo trade serves as a cautionary tale for both sides.
If you are on an expiring contract, and want to go to another team, you are better off signing as a FA and not forcing your future team to give up assets you can use to build a good team. If you are a team who knows a players wants to play for you, do your best to NOT strip your team of assets which can be used to build a good team.
Yeah...that can be an issue.
Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.
Melo was maximizing his salary - like most professionals do -with rare exceptions. This franchise was in the toilet long before Melo arrived, so can't see how it's all Melo's fault.
nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Its on Melo fir demanding a trade to start with, not ansilving management of their part but it starts with NeloHaven't we gone over this too many times to remember? STOP THE MADNESS! The Horse is DEAD!!!
Why not ask the Melo fans to stop as well? Why just me? Am I that special? And turn off your caps please no need to yell.
I'm yelling on purpose cuz this is the most ill timed dumb ISH i've seen. What do you hope to gain from being right on this? OK so Melo should've waited and risked unknown changes to the CBA. It's fine if you feel that way, but that crap is long over and at this point meaningless to our current situation. This has been a very good summer for this franchise. Revisiting this does nothing and proves nothing. Phil and his staff have done a good job this summer.
Of course you are, because you like a lot of others have this double standard. There are at least two other people dragging out this thread but you find me to accuse of rehashing the past. Not that I expect anything different. You don't like me, I get it, not trying to be popular, just pointing out the obvious. Relax.
WaltLongmire wrote:I do believe that if Phil does have designs on Westbrook, and Westbrook has an interest in the Knicks, the Melo trade serves as a cautionary tale for both sides.If you are on an expiring contract, and want to go to another team, you are better off signing as a FA and not forcing your future team to give up assets you can use to build a good team. If you are a team who knows a players wants to play for you, do your best to NOT strip your team of assets which can be used to build a good team.
ALL OF THIS.
Exactly. IF you want to leave, DO NOT force a trade. It guts the team you are going to.
Melo was the last Star to force a trade and gut his team.
crzymdups wrote:Denver wanted to get something back for Melo. The problem was Dolan is a terrible negotiator and he cut Donnie's legs off in the negotiations. Walsh quietly quit two months later. Blame Dolan.Just a few days ago, I saw Simmons calling Melo a bad businessman for signing long term in 2014 before the cap explosion in 2016. Melo really can't win - he's a bad businessman if he doesn't get the most money possible and he's a selfish jerk if he tries to get the most money possible.
Melo haters should think about the fact that you're with Bill Simmons in this argument.
He was a bad businessman for signing a long term deal with the cap exploding. His loss, our gain.
meloshouldgo wrote:nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Its on Melo fir demanding a trade to start with, not ansilving management of their part but it starts with NeloHaven't we gone over this too many times to remember? STOP THE MADNESS! The Horse is DEAD!!!
Why not ask the Melo fans to stop as well? Why just me? Am I that special? And turn off your caps please no need to yell.
I'm yelling on purpose cuz this is the most ill timed dumb ISH i've seen. What do you hope to gain from being right on this? OK so Melo should've waited and risked unknown changes to the CBA. It's fine if you feel that way, but that crap is long over and at this point meaningless to our current situation. This has been a very good summer for this franchise. Revisiting this does nothing and proves nothing. Phil and his staff have done a good job this summer.
Of course you are, because you like a lot of others have this double standard. There are at least two other people dragging out this thread but you find me to accuse of rehashing the past. Not that I expect anything different. You don't like me, I get it, not trying to be popular, just pointing out the obvious. Relax.
I responded to a post that had not just your comments but the OP's as well. So it's not just you i'm commenting to. I'm addressing everyone with a similar sentiment. So much has happened since that trade it's really a waste of time to go all the way back to that point in time. Like I said we need to live in the present at this point. There's been too much water under the bridge on this subject.
nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Its on Melo fir demanding a trade to start with, not ansilving management of their part but it starts with NeloHaven't we gone over this too many times to remember? STOP THE MADNESS! The Horse is DEAD!!!
Why not ask the Melo fans to stop as well? Why just me? Am I that special? And turn off your caps please no need to yell.
I'm yelling on purpose cuz this is the most ill timed dumb ISH i've seen. What do you hope to gain from being right on this? OK so Melo should've waited and risked unknown changes to the CBA. It's fine if you feel that way, but that crap is long over and at this point meaningless to our current situation. This has been a very good summer for this franchise. Revisiting this does nothing and proves nothing. Phil and his staff have done a good job this summer.
Of course you are, because you like a lot of others have this double standard. There are at least two other people dragging out this thread but you find me to accuse of rehashing the past. Not that I expect anything different. You don't like me, I get it, not trying to be popular, just pointing out the obvious. Relax.
I responded to a post that had not just your comments but the OP's as well. So it's not just you i'm commenting to. I'm addressing everyone with a similar sentiment. So much has happened since that trade it's really a waste of time to go all the way back to that point in time. Like I said we need to live in the present at this point. There's been too much water under the bridge on this subject.
No worries.
Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.
There was a lockout looming, Melo wanted security given the situation. Wanting security is understandable. Knicks didn't have to trade for him. If no lockout its possible he leaves as a FA.
Walsh drafted Jordan Hill over (Hindsight)Derozan then proceeded to trade Hill in his rookie yr in order to dump Jeffries contract(6mil) and make room for 2 max players.
Houston also has the right to swap first-round picks with New York in 2011, and the Rockets also get New York's 2012 first-round pick.
So if you are keeping count Walsh traded a lotto pick (Hill), another first rounder, and the right to swap first rounders in order to dump 6mil off the salary cap. That extra money freed up did not turn into a 2nd max player but Raymond Felton. Not to mention Walsh traded away Zach Randolph in salary dump without acquiring ANY future assets in return. As well as traded Crawford for AL Harrington which basically was the same as no future assets in return since we let him walk. And we were a 500. team at the time while owing our draft pick that yr to Utah. These are all possible assets that could have limited the gutting of the team.
Then after the trade we had an amnesty clause and Billups expiring contract to allow us to free up 30 mil in cap space to build around a prime Carmelo Anthony if the Billups-Melo-Amare trio didn't work.
Lebron is the only superhero, expecting stars to be superhero and save poorly run orgs isn't realistic. Org need to be run well with or without expecting a superhero to come save it from its own stupidity.
newyorknewyork wrote:Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.There was a lockout looming, Melo wanted security given the situation. Wanting security is understandable. Knicks didn't have to trade for him. If no lockout its possible he leaves as a FA.
Walsh drafted Jordan Hill over (Hindsight)Derozan then proceeded to trade Hill in his rookie yr in order to dump Jeffries contract(6mil) and make room for 2 max players.
Houston also has the right to swap first-round picks with New York in 2011, and the Rockets also get New York's 2012 first-round pick.So if you are keeping count Walsh traded a lotto pick (Hill), another first rounder, and the right to swap first rounders in order to dump 6mil off the salary cap. That extra money freed up did not turn into a 2nd max player but Raymond Felton. Not to mention Walsh traded away Zach Randolph in salary dump without acquiring ANY future assets in return. As well as traded Crawford for AL Harrington which basically was the same as no future assets in return since we let him walk. And we were a 500. team at the time while owing our draft pick that yr to Utah. These are all possible assets that could have limited the gutting of the team.
Then after the trade we had an amnesty clause and Billups expiring contract to allow us to free up 30 mil in cap space to build around a prime Carmelo Anthony if the Billups-Melo-Amare trio didn't work.
Lebron is the only superhero, expecting stars to be superhero and save poorly run orgs isn't realistic. Org need to be run well with or without expecting a superhero to come save it from its own stupidity.
Walsh cut cap hearing that Lebron wanted to come and to free up a second max spot.
Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.
why are we talking about this?
Caseloads wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.There was a lockout looming, Melo wanted security given the situation. Wanting security is understandable. Knicks didn't have to trade for him. If no lockout its possible he leaves as a FA.
Walsh drafted Jordan Hill over (Hindsight)Derozan then proceeded to trade Hill in his rookie yr in order to dump Jeffries contract(6mil) and make room for 2 max players.
Houston also has the right to swap first-round picks with New York in 2011, and the Rockets also get New York's 2012 first-round pick.So if you are keeping count Walsh traded a lotto pick (Hill), another first rounder, and the right to swap first rounders in order to dump 6mil off the salary cap. That extra money freed up did not turn into a 2nd max player but Raymond Felton. Not to mention Walsh traded away Zach Randolph in salary dump without acquiring ANY future assets in return. As well as traded Crawford for AL Harrington which basically was the same as no future assets in return since we let him walk. And we were a 500. team at the time while owing our draft pick that yr to Utah. These are all possible assets that could have limited the gutting of the team.
Then after the trade we had an amnesty clause and Billups expiring contract to allow us to free up 30 mil in cap space to build around a prime Carmelo Anthony if the Billups-Melo-Amare trio didn't work.
Lebron is the only superhero, expecting stars to be superhero and save poorly run orgs isn't realistic. Org need to be run well with or without expecting a superhero to come save it from its own stupidity.
Walsh cut cap hearing that Lebron wanted to come and to free up a second max spot.
And all the assets that were given up in order to make the room contributed to the gutted team. Giving Amare an uninsured contract contributed to the gutted team.
And trading away your lotto pick, along with a future first rounder, along with the right to swap was not worth saving 6mil unless we had the FAs already in place and was necessary to make it happen. Jordan Hill in his rookie yr could have been moved alone to land a quality proven player if they wanted to move him and have someone in place already rather then strictly waiting for a 2nd FA to maybe sign. David Lee who put up all star numbers was moved for Anthony Randloph who turned into a bust. hats another asset wasted. Hell we could have packaged David Lee with Jordan Hill and Jeffires and gotten an allstar player back to entice upcoming FAs or used to grab Melo.
martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.why are we talking about this?
Why not Martin?
I was thinking about how Durant and Lebron signed recently. Why give up something in trade when you can sign the player outright?
Caseloads wrote:martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.why are we talking about this?
Why not Martin?
I was thinking about how Durant and Lebron signed recently. Why give up something in trade when you can sign the player outright?
Take your meds bro
Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.
Yawn yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Welpee wrote:Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.Yeah, because Gallo, Felton, Wilson Chandler and Mozgov would've delivered a ring to NY, guaranteed! smhNo because in 6 years our face of the franchise delivered multiple 17-30 win seasons and one second round exit. And his incredible greed was the only reason we had no shot in hell of placing better players around him.
Shake that.
MUST WE LIVE IN THE PAST??? Let that ISH GO!!! This is a pretty good time for the team and I think we can use our energies much better than this.
It just amazes me that things are finally turning around but there's still people that have to find anything negative they possibly can to talk about with the Knicks....SMDH
Caseloads wrote:martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.why are we talking about this?
Why not Martin?
I was thinking about how Durant and Lebron signed recently. Why give up something in trade when you can sign the player outright?
Something new to cover? You missed a detail that hasn't been talked about over the last, what, 5 years?
You got Summer League, draft that just passed us, free agents, Euro dudes, a whole new team, new management and this is what you want to talk about?
EnySpree wrote:I took em. My bad.Caseloads wrote:martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.why are we talking about this?
Why not Martin?
I was thinking about how Durant and Lebron signed recently. Why give up something in trade when you can sign the player outright?
Take your meds bro
Durant went to the team that that won more games than any other team in NBA history. Lebron went home.
Its all good. I suspect Melo will be a Knick for 12 years when all is said and done. At the end of his career it will be very telling to look at the 10 years before he was here, the 10 years after and simply compare records.
You can see the trolls already prepping for the season. If it blows up then its "see? The only FAs Melo attracts are broken down bums" and if they all play great its "they were coming here anyway."
Good meds!
Caseloads wrote:If Melo had just signed here as a free agent - the way that other superstars do (and leave their teams without any or minimal comp) and like Donny Walsh wanted, we would have had a great team around Melo. No, Melo had to force a trade.
Is this for real? Isn't this 2016?