Knicks · Forget Kris for Westbrook. The real question is draft picks... (page 1)

History dictates situations like this rarely result in high caliber young players getting traded for Westbrook in his current situation. I think the real question is would you trade some filler packages with some combo of younger players (i.e. Thomas, Jennings, Holiday, OQuinn) with Rose (to make salaries match) along with multiple first rounders for Westbrook and filler.

I'm not sure either way just thinking this may be a more realistic scenario than giving up actual high ceiling players based on similiar trades (Boston, although I know they gave up Jefferson, New Jersey-Pierce/Garnett trade), Gasol (at the time the 2 first round picks were the highlight of that trade, not Marc), Chris Paul veto trade (Hornets were gonna get some decent but not high ceiling players and a pick in that trade).

I know some deals had young players in them (Chris Paul netted Eric Gordon), Boston letting go of Jefferson but it seems the draft picks are the constant.

What do you guys think?

We can't do next year's, as far as I know, and if we were to get Westbrook for picks, you have to figure that the #1s we gave up would not be high #1s because you would assume that we would be a good team.

If Westbrook wants the Knicks, and we want him...best thing is to wait for FA.

WaltLongmire wrote: The real question is whether OKC would only take draft picks.

We can't do next year's, as far as I know, and if we were to get Westbrook for picks, you have to figure that the #1s we gave up would not be high #1s because you would assume that we would be a good team.

If Westbrook wants the Knicks, and we want him...best thing is to wait for FA.

Not saying I disagree. I would prefer him as a FA above all else. Im just saying alot of these type of superstar walk year trades revolve around draft picks.

I would take him as a FA as we can try it out, but I wouldn't give up much to get him. KP is totally not even in the discussion.

And those are some outstanding assist percentages. Durant over the last 2 playoff seasons his ast% has dropped down to 18% and 14% in the playoffs.

Yet Westbrook is seen as the jock. Westbrook also puts in a lot more effort on defense then Durant has done in his career.

StarksEwing1 wrote:Let me put it this way if Phil ever trades KP for Westbrook he may as well pack his bags and go back to LA. Porzingis is the future of this franchise not melo,not noah, and not even westbrook. When it comes to westbrook they should wait until free agency. If he signs with us great if he doesn't we simply move on to other targets because its a great FA class

earthmansurfer wrote:After seeing how Westbrook and Durant couldn't really (consistently) play team ball, Durant actually leaving that team that could have won it all - I'm surprised we would even consider Westbrook. Yeah, super talented but can he play on a team that shares the ball? He seems like a "me first" kind of guy.

I would take him as a FA as we can try it out, but I wouldn't give up much to get him. KP is totally not even in the discussion.

he's a difficult case that is for sure. he racks up assists, and his usage is absurdly high, but then his assist rate (the percentage of time an assist is generated with him in the floor) is also extremely high, somewhat justifying the absurdly high usage rate.

the issue with him may lie elsewhere: he takes too many shots for a player with such a low TS%, and he turns the ball over a bunch. bad shots are the same as turnovers, and my hunch is that, since his emergence, that taking around 19 shots a game is about 4 shots a game too many, and they are extremely likely to have been bad shots, which are tantamount to turnovers and momentum changers in the opponent's favor.

as great as westbrook seems to be, he needs to tighten up his game a bunch... and i don't see that happening any time soon.

StarksEwing1 wrote:Let me put it this way if Phil ever trades KP for Westbrook he may as well pack his bags and go back to LA. Porzingis is the future of this franchise not melo,not noah, and not even westbrook. When it comes to westbrook they should wait until free agency. I he signs with us great if he doesn't we simply move on to other targets ecause its a great FA class

Yeah Porzingis is the guy, no doubt about that. I really want the Knicks and Porzingis to develop a relationship like Mavs have with Dirk, Spurs with Duncan, etc. I want him in a Knicks jersey for his entire career and for the Knicks and Porzingis name to be synonymous for the rest of time.

Knicksfan wrote:Westbrook on Free Agency or no Westbrook. Simple as that.

I agree but we should be aware that OKC will definitely trade Westbrook to get something in return. Even if he has to implicitely approve the trade; Celtics, Lakers or another big market will give them a lot to acquire a player like him.
I don't think he'll be a knick and like you I don't want to give OKC any picks or KP.

joec32033 wrote:I don't think Porzingis is going anywhere, I think the real question is would you trade multiple future first rounders for Westbrook.

History dictates situations like this rarely result in high caliber young players getting traded for Westbrook in his current situation. I think the real question is would you trade some filler packages with some combo of younger players (i.e. Thomas, Jennings, Holiday, OQuinn) with Rose (to make salaries match) along with multiple first rounders for Westbrook and filler.

I'm not sure either way just thinking this may be a more realistic scenario than giving up actual high ceiling players based on similiar trades (Boston, although I know they gave up Jefferson, New Jersey-Pierce/Garnett trade), Gasol (at the time the 2 first round picks were the highlight of that trade, not Marc), Chris Paul veto trade (Hornets were gonna get some decent but not high ceiling players and a pick in that trade).

I know some deals had young players in them (Chris Paul netted Eric Gordon), Boston letting go of Jefferson but it seems the draft picks are the constant.

What do you guys think?

I wouldn't trade anything that would hurt our now and future for him. We already know we will have a chance to sign him in free agency so i would wait until he's a free agent and if we don't sign him we move on to C.Paul, S.Curry, K.Lowry, J.Holliday or even D.Rose.

Can't wait for the first trade Melo/Rose/2nd rounders for Westbrook trade thread.

WaltLongmire wrote: The real question is whether OKC would only take draft picks.

We can't do next year's, as far as I know, and if we were to get Westbrook for picks, you have to figure that the #1s we gave up would not be high #1s because you would assume that we would be a good team.

If Westbrook wants the Knicks, and we want him...best thing is to wait for FA.

WaltLongmire wrote: The real question is whether OKC would only take draft picks.

We can't do next year's, as far as I know, and if we were to get Westbrook for picks, you have to figure that the #1s we gave up would not be high #1s because you would assume that we would be a good team.

If Westbrook wants the Knicks, and we want him...best thing is to wait for FA.

I agree with the last part - best thing is to wait for him in FA.

On the middle part - I remember a lot of Knicks fans here figured the two picks we gave up in the Eddy Curry deal would not be high #1s because a team of Marbury and Eddy Curry would be so good... oy vey... we wound up giving up picks 2 and 9 in back to back drafts to the Bulls. Picks that became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

I'm done trading #1 picks.

1- 5year deal to entice him vs 4year deal with less money as the pay increase each year
So Durant signed a 1 and 1 with GS because that 1year in experience allows Durant to make MUCH MORE MONEY, would Westbrook do the same?

2- would need at least 1 1st rounder possibly more
We have stocked up some 2nd rounders though we traded ALL of our 2nd rounders from before Phil Jackson got here till now

3- would allow The Knicks to go over the cap and have his FULL BIRD RIGHTS therefore would have the FULL MLE in addition to resigning any RFA or matching such offers, remember that Justin Holiday is on a contract year, and believe his contract was only for 2 years therefore allowing just the EARLY BIRD RIGHTS, though there could also be other FA's that we have yet to sign, just say Kevin Martin/Dewayne Dedmon along with undrafted FA's

4- However, considering Westbrook can likely still net a 5year MAX deal, 3years after next summer, and Dolan's deep pockets/willingness to overpay for high profiled names, it may be the better financial move for Westbrook to net another MAX 5year deal with a player option after year 3 than taking a risk with a 5year deal and player option after year 4 (honestly I think Dolan would pay him regardless along with an extension for CA if he wanted one (especially if we won a ring during this period)

5- A lot of it would depend on how Derrick Rose looks this season along with the rest of our team as OKC may look to squeeze us
Whether it may be Jennings, Courtney Lee, our new Derrick Williams, Kyle O Quin, or even take back contracts such as Kyle Singler or Ernes Kanter

6- We have a trade exemption from Chicago for the Derrick Rose/Lopez swap worth about a bit under 1.6m, (a player to we could use is Robert Covington who makes the vet min this upcoming season and another season, after that I believe he will be a RFA, so with Covington's cap friendly contract it would need assets for us to acquire his contract in todays NBA salaries
MosGoV cost 2 1st rounders for Cleveland to acquire from Denver because of his cap friendly deal, Covington's contract is even less
However, Philly has limited roster spots with MANY draft picks, draft rights, 2nd rounders, and many young players
So maybe we can just offer cash and a 1st rounder but get back MULTIPLE 2nd rounders back, though maybe just 2nd rounders/cash may do it, also Philly may have interest in Justin Holiday if he looks good (but we may know that we are unlikely to be able to keep him with just his early bird rights

7- Westbrook/MSG crowd goes hand in hand, they both give energy to each other
If Jeremy Lin can make Knick fans go crazy with Novak, Westbrook could make much more noise

8- "Allegedly" we did not resign Galloway because we wanted to save enough money for a MAX Tier player, we only want 1year deals
Not sure what the numbers are but I think even with a player option, Galloway would likely OPT out (which he has got with The Pelicans)
Chasson Randle could be a big part of this with his summer league play and his skillset/size is very similar to Brandon Jennings without the negatives off the court and on the court, with better leadership/overall willingness to make team better whether it is by facilitating/DEFENSE and can SCORE/shoot as well, could be much more efficient

9- I believe we can have anywhere from 2-3m in cap space, assuming Galloway does in fact walk away therefore releasing his cap hold, depending on how much money was given to Willy G and the way we structure contracts (for instance for the signing of Mindaugas Kuzminskas *could be under 3m and then with a raise for over 3m for a 2year 6m deal, along with possibly getting a BIT MORE if needed by getting Noah/Courtney Lee to take just say 250K to 500k each to sign more talent if needed

10- I really like Dewayne Dedmon as a SHOT BLOCKING/MOBILE/RUNNING Center, basically what Biyombo is along with a YOUNG CHRIS ANDERSON
Maybe Josh Smith could play a similar role on a vet min deal

Without Galloway's qualifying offer, we could have enough cap space to sigh a decent player along with vet mins
Though some of these players I wouldn't offer more than the vet min

Trade EXEMPTION 1.5m +
==================================

Trade for Robert Covington with our trade exemption that is right under 1.6m acquired from the Rose/Lopez swap
There could be potential players on The Sun's as well with that price

Using 3.2m or whatever/cash as well

FA TARGETS left to fill out roster
======================================

Names I would like to acquire include

Dewayne Dedmon

Jeff Taylor SG/SF (ex Bobcat)

Ian Clark *has enough size to play some 1 and 2*
Tony Dougalas played well last season and looks like he found his 3pt shot/confidence back as well as improved his game (could be a steal)

Tim Fraizer

FOR TIM FRAZIER and Tony Douglas, The Pelican's may have team options on them

Jarrett Jack *was once a 6th man of the year candidate and capable of playing PG/SG/SF and defending at a decent level but that injury looks scrazy at his age*
Donald Sloan
Isiah Cannon
The backup PG that played last year on The Suns

Marcus Thornton
Kevin Martin
John Jenkins

Jabari Brown *played as a rookie with Jordan Clarkson and played well when he got minutes in the last 1-2months*
Gereld Green

Luke Babbit
Koustas Pap

Chase Budinger
Novak
Anthony Morrow if they release him as his contract is not fully guaranteed
Damjan Rudez

Thomas Robinson
James Mcadoo a young Jared Jeffries without any shot but solid defender/hustler/NBA body for DEFENSE

Kris Humphries
Josh Smith/David Lee

Willie Reed
Anderson Vereajo

Alonzo Gee *3 and D*
Jakarr Sampson *has very long arms/length/athleticism, could be the next Aminu if he develops a shot*

D League/International/Summer League, undrated FA's, continued development previously undrafted and drafted FA's
=========================================================================================================================

Chasson Randle

Summers/Thanasis/JP Tokoto

Backnaski

Mike James/Alan Williams

Nandon De Cole/Shved/Rudy Fernandaz
Would like that SG that was almost dealt to use from Houston as they own his draft rights and have been rumored to be signing him

Ndour

Nate Walters/Eric Green Christian Wood *all of which are Briggs favorites*