Knicks · Maurice N Dour 2 year deal for Knicks (page 7)
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:there are two sides to that coin though... Thad Young went for a 20ish pick and they are similar. Lopez's best BB came when the Knicks were losing every game, and look at the what we saw with guards in this market. Bench players getting max contracts. Phil said part of the reason was the FA crop didn't make sense and he was a 100% right with that.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I guess my retort is simple... do you still believe the bold? Because if you look at every move that followed the Rose deal it looks like the start of a calculated and well executed offseason. Phil hedged the health of Noah and Rose with Kuz, NDour, Willy and Plumlee... all prospects locked into 2 year deals. Then to ensure there is veteran depth Jennings, Lance and Sasha represent fantastic value in this market.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is real balance. Its why I am very puzzled as some folks are saying this is an all in and PHil's plan totally changed and its all win now. NDour, Kuz, Willy, not sure if both Baker/Randle make the team, Plumlee... If you cant see a clear and concerted effort by this FO to continue to build towards the future WHILE fielding a team with the upside for a deep playoff run I just don't know what you are looking at.Knicksfan wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/knicks-...Report: Knicks sign Maurice Ndour to two-year guaranteed dealThe Knicks have signed Real Madrid forward Maurice Ndour to a two-year guaranteed deal, according to European basketball reporter David Pick.
Ndour, 24, last played for Real Madrid in Liga ACB, averaging 2.3 points and 1.8 rebounds in 9.6 minutes per game. He impressed the Knicks last year at Summer League in Las Vegas, scoring 23 points in a game against then-rookie Jahlil Okafor and the 76ers.
Following Summer League, Ndour signed a multi-year deal with the Mavericks, but was waived in October.
The signing of Ndour brings the Knicks to 14 players. He joins Joakim Noah, Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Kyle O’Quinn and Marshall Plumlee in the frontcourt.
On Tuesday, the team re-signed veteran guard Sasha Vujacic to a one-year deal worth the veteran’s minimum.
– Kenny Ducey
Two good signings this week. Never thought I would say that about Sasha returning, but for a year, and to help KP and the new rooks adjust to all the changes, its a smart move.
Its because the starting roster is top heavy with older, frequently injured players now. Some of us here were happy to have the best frontcourt since Ewing/Oakley. As I pointed out before, even Mike Lupica who supported the Rose trade said it was a desperation move. Im glad there are some younger players in the pipeline, at the same time, I want to be sure that KP isn't surrounded by older, broken down players on bad deals when its time to re-up.
I keep hearing that Porzingis would never leave. I believe if we've learned anything from the Durant move, is anything can happen, especially with Dolan in charge. I dont want mgmt to get complacent about what the team will look like when its time for KP to make his decision. Those are legitimate concerns IMO considering this franchise's history under Dolan.
Have also made it clear that since Phil's sudden sense of urgency, I do like the moves he has made to fill out the roster.
Hey, I didn't like the Rose deal either. But I did give it a wait and see. In the past that WAS the move. Now, that is just one thing that can go right. If that move fails there is upside to that as well. Big picture this was a hell of a job
Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player, looked like desperation to me. Rose could have been gotten next summer, who were we bidding against that we had to pull the trigger now?
As far as seing how healthy Rose was before signing him, Phil could have seen that on the Bulls' dime. Was hoping for something more for a player who looked like an all star by the end of the season, on a great deal, and in his prime.
I don't know man.. I think your lament in losing Lopez (a good player) is not in line with how well we did in a brutal FA market. Mike Conley got $150mm. He's the highest paid NBA player EVER. How were we going to upgrade PG for the coach? The reality is with Lopez as a centerpiece I suspect Rose was the best we could do, unless you saw something else on the market that would have been better? In 20/20 the Rose trade was excellent, and it was my least favorite offseason move! $150mm for Mike Conley!
Lopez was getting pulled in the 4th quarter by Fisher for no good reason, pulled after 2 fouls, could have won more games if he had been allowed to play. Think about this Fish, two really bad coaches last season, and Lopez still got better every month. Held his own against some of the best big men in the league, had the better of some of them. I didn't see anyone coming back who was playing as well.
Yeah, those were the games we were winning, The last 2 wks of Fishers tenure, and after Rambi took over, the knicks played at the slowest pace in the NBA, ironically, Lopes played very well, and the losses mounted.
With JH preaching uptempo, lopez is not the type..You see the roster now, all uptempo players that could run
knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:there are two sides to that coin though... Thad Young went for a 20ish pick and they are similar. Lopez's best BB came when the Knicks were losing every game, and look at the what we saw with guards in this market. Bench players getting max contracts. Phil said part of the reason was the FA crop didn't make sense and he was a 100% right with that.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I guess my retort is simple... do you still believe the bold? Because if you look at every move that followed the Rose deal it looks like the start of a calculated and well executed offseason. Phil hedged the health of Noah and Rose with Kuz, NDour, Willy and Plumlee... all prospects locked into 2 year deals. Then to ensure there is veteran depth Jennings, Lance and Sasha represent fantastic value in this market.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is real balance. Its why I am very puzzled as some folks are saying this is an all in and PHil's plan totally changed and its all win now. NDour, Kuz, Willy, not sure if both Baker/Randle make the team, Plumlee... If you cant see a clear and concerted effort by this FO to continue to build towards the future WHILE fielding a team with the upside for a deep playoff run I just don't know what you are looking at.Knicksfan wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/knicks-...Report: Knicks sign Maurice Ndour to two-year guaranteed dealThe Knicks have signed Real Madrid forward Maurice Ndour to a two-year guaranteed deal, according to European basketball reporter David Pick.
Ndour, 24, last played for Real Madrid in Liga ACB, averaging 2.3 points and 1.8 rebounds in 9.6 minutes per game. He impressed the Knicks last year at Summer League in Las Vegas, scoring 23 points in a game against then-rookie Jahlil Okafor and the 76ers.
Following Summer League, Ndour signed a multi-year deal with the Mavericks, but was waived in October.
The signing of Ndour brings the Knicks to 14 players. He joins Joakim Noah, Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Kyle O’Quinn and Marshall Plumlee in the frontcourt.
On Tuesday, the team re-signed veteran guard Sasha Vujacic to a one-year deal worth the veteran’s minimum.
– Kenny Ducey
Two good signings this week. Never thought I would say that about Sasha returning, but for a year, and to help KP and the new rooks adjust to all the changes, its a smart move.
Its because the starting roster is top heavy with older, frequently injured players now. Some of us here were happy to have the best frontcourt since Ewing/Oakley. As I pointed out before, even Mike Lupica who supported the Rose trade said it was a desperation move. Im glad there are some younger players in the pipeline, at the same time, I want to be sure that KP isn't surrounded by older, broken down players on bad deals when its time to re-up.
I keep hearing that Porzingis would never leave. I believe if we've learned anything from the Durant move, is anything can happen, especially with Dolan in charge. I dont want mgmt to get complacent about what the team will look like when its time for KP to make his decision. Those are legitimate concerns IMO considering this franchise's history under Dolan.
Have also made it clear that since Phil's sudden sense of urgency, I do like the moves he has made to fill out the roster.
Hey, I didn't like the Rose deal either. But I did give it a wait and see. In the past that WAS the move. Now, that is just one thing that can go right. If that move fails there is upside to that as well. Big picture this was a hell of a job
Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player, looked like desperation to me. Rose could have been gotten next summer, who were we bidding against that we had to pull the trigger now?
As far as seing how healthy Rose was before signing him, Phil could have seen that on the Bulls' dime. Was hoping for something more for a player who looked like an all star by the end of the season, on a great deal, and in his prime.
I don't know man.. I think your lament in losing Lopez (a good player) is not in line with how well we did in a brutal FA market. Mike Conley got $150mm. He's the highest paid NBA player EVER. How were we going to upgrade PG for the coach? The reality is with Lopez as a centerpiece I suspect Rose was the best we could do, unless you saw something else on the market that would have been better? In 20/20 the Rose trade was excellent, and it was my least favorite offseason move! $150mm for Mike Conley!
Lopez was getting pulled in the 4th quarter by Fisher for no good reason, pulled after 2 fouls, could have won more games if he had been allowed to play. Think about this Fish, two really bad coaches last season, and Lopez still got better every month. Held his own against some of the best big men in the league, had the better of some of them. I didn't see anyone coming back who was playing as well.
Yeah, those were the games we were winning, The last 2 wks of Fishers tenure, and after Rambi took over, the knicks played at the slowest pace in the NBA, ironically, Lopes played very well, and the losses mounted.
With JH preaching uptempo, lopez is not the type..You see the roster now, all uptempo players that could run
No way, yelled at the screen too many times during losses, wondering why Lopez was on the bench in the 4th while we were losing. Dont agree that Lopez playing well caused the rest of the lineup to play poorly.
GustavBahler wrote:knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:there are two sides to that coin though... Thad Young went for a 20ish pick and they are similar. Lopez's best BB came when the Knicks were losing every game, and look at the what we saw with guards in this market. Bench players getting max contracts. Phil said part of the reason was the FA crop didn't make sense and he was a 100% right with that.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I guess my retort is simple... do you still believe the bold? Because if you look at every move that followed the Rose deal it looks like the start of a calculated and well executed offseason. Phil hedged the health of Noah and Rose with Kuz, NDour, Willy and Plumlee... all prospects locked into 2 year deals. Then to ensure there is veteran depth Jennings, Lance and Sasha represent fantastic value in this market.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is real balance. Its why I am very puzzled as some folks are saying this is an all in and PHil's plan totally changed and its all win now. NDour, Kuz, Willy, not sure if both Baker/Randle make the team, Plumlee... If you cant see a clear and concerted effort by this FO to continue to build towards the future WHILE fielding a team with the upside for a deep playoff run I just don't know what you are looking at.Knicksfan wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/knicks-...Report: Knicks sign Maurice Ndour to two-year guaranteed dealThe Knicks have signed Real Madrid forward Maurice Ndour to a two-year guaranteed deal, according to European basketball reporter David Pick.
Ndour, 24, last played for Real Madrid in Liga ACB, averaging 2.3 points and 1.8 rebounds in 9.6 minutes per game. He impressed the Knicks last year at Summer League in Las Vegas, scoring 23 points in a game against then-rookie Jahlil Okafor and the 76ers.
Following Summer League, Ndour signed a multi-year deal with the Mavericks, but was waived in October.
The signing of Ndour brings the Knicks to 14 players. He joins Joakim Noah, Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Kyle O’Quinn and Marshall Plumlee in the frontcourt.
On Tuesday, the team re-signed veteran guard Sasha Vujacic to a one-year deal worth the veteran’s minimum.
– Kenny Ducey
Two good signings this week. Never thought I would say that about Sasha returning, but for a year, and to help KP and the new rooks adjust to all the changes, its a smart move.
Its because the starting roster is top heavy with older, frequently injured players now. Some of us here were happy to have the best frontcourt since Ewing/Oakley. As I pointed out before, even Mike Lupica who supported the Rose trade said it was a desperation move. Im glad there are some younger players in the pipeline, at the same time, I want to be sure that KP isn't surrounded by older, broken down players on bad deals when its time to re-up.
I keep hearing that Porzingis would never leave. I believe if we've learned anything from the Durant move, is anything can happen, especially with Dolan in charge. I dont want mgmt to get complacent about what the team will look like when its time for KP to make his decision. Those are legitimate concerns IMO considering this franchise's history under Dolan.
Have also made it clear that since Phil's sudden sense of urgency, I do like the moves he has made to fill out the roster.
Hey, I didn't like the Rose deal either. But I did give it a wait and see. In the past that WAS the move. Now, that is just one thing that can go right. If that move fails there is upside to that as well. Big picture this was a hell of a job
Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player, looked like desperation to me. Rose could have been gotten next summer, who were we bidding against that we had to pull the trigger now?
As far as seing how healthy Rose was before signing him, Phil could have seen that on the Bulls' dime. Was hoping for something more for a player who looked like an all star by the end of the season, on a great deal, and in his prime.
I don't know man.. I think your lament in losing Lopez (a good player) is not in line with how well we did in a brutal FA market. Mike Conley got $150mm. He's the highest paid NBA player EVER. How were we going to upgrade PG for the coach? The reality is with Lopez as a centerpiece I suspect Rose was the best we could do, unless you saw something else on the market that would have been better? In 20/20 the Rose trade was excellent, and it was my least favorite offseason move! $150mm for Mike Conley!
Lopez was getting pulled in the 4th quarter by Fisher for no good reason, pulled after 2 fouls, could have won more games if he had been allowed to play. Think about this Fish, two really bad coaches last season, and Lopez still got better every month. Held his own against some of the best big men in the league, had the better of some of them. I didn't see anyone coming back who was playing as well.
Yeah, those were the games we were winning, The last 2 wks of Fishers tenure, and after Rambi took over, the knicks played at the slowest pace in the NBA, ironically, Lopes played very well, and the losses mounted.
With JH preaching uptempo, lopez is not the type..You see the roster now, all uptempo players that could run
No way, yelled at the screen too many times during losses, wondering why Lopez was on the bench in the 4th while we were losing. Dont agree that Lopez playing well caused the rest of the lineup to play poorly.
I think this aspect of his comments is the real key point. This team has been remade in the image of Jeff Hornacek. Unlike how the Knicks did MDA, this time Phil is giving his coach what he needs to run his stuff. That makes all the difference in the world.
nixluva wrote:GustavBahler wrote:knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:there are two sides to that coin though... Thad Young went for a 20ish pick and they are similar. Lopez's best BB came when the Knicks were losing every game, and look at the what we saw with guards in this market. Bench players getting max contracts. Phil said part of the reason was the FA crop didn't make sense and he was a 100% right with that.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I guess my retort is simple... do you still believe the bold? Because if you look at every move that followed the Rose deal it looks like the start of a calculated and well executed offseason. Phil hedged the health of Noah and Rose with Kuz, NDour, Willy and Plumlee... all prospects locked into 2 year deals. Then to ensure there is veteran depth Jennings, Lance and Sasha represent fantastic value in this market.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is real balance. Its why I am very puzzled as some folks are saying this is an all in and PHil's plan totally changed and its all win now. NDour, Kuz, Willy, not sure if both Baker/Randle make the team, Plumlee... If you cant see a clear and concerted effort by this FO to continue to build towards the future WHILE fielding a team with the upside for a deep playoff run I just don't know what you are looking at.Knicksfan wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/knicks-...Report: Knicks sign Maurice Ndour to two-year guaranteed dealThe Knicks have signed Real Madrid forward Maurice Ndour to a two-year guaranteed deal, according to European basketball reporter David Pick.
Ndour, 24, last played for Real Madrid in Liga ACB, averaging 2.3 points and 1.8 rebounds in 9.6 minutes per game. He impressed the Knicks last year at Summer League in Las Vegas, scoring 23 points in a game against then-rookie Jahlil Okafor and the 76ers.
Following Summer League, Ndour signed a multi-year deal with the Mavericks, but was waived in October.
The signing of Ndour brings the Knicks to 14 players. He joins Joakim Noah, Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Kyle O’Quinn and Marshall Plumlee in the frontcourt.
On Tuesday, the team re-signed veteran guard Sasha Vujacic to a one-year deal worth the veteran’s minimum.
– Kenny Ducey
Two good signings this week. Never thought I would say that about Sasha returning, but for a year, and to help KP and the new rooks adjust to all the changes, its a smart move.
Its because the starting roster is top heavy with older, frequently injured players now. Some of us here were happy to have the best frontcourt since Ewing/Oakley. As I pointed out before, even Mike Lupica who supported the Rose trade said it was a desperation move. Im glad there are some younger players in the pipeline, at the same time, I want to be sure that KP isn't surrounded by older, broken down players on bad deals when its time to re-up.
I keep hearing that Porzingis would never leave. I believe if we've learned anything from the Durant move, is anything can happen, especially with Dolan in charge. I dont want mgmt to get complacent about what the team will look like when its time for KP to make his decision. Those are legitimate concerns IMO considering this franchise's history under Dolan.
Have also made it clear that since Phil's sudden sense of urgency, I do like the moves he has made to fill out the roster.
Hey, I didn't like the Rose deal either. But I did give it a wait and see. In the past that WAS the move. Now, that is just one thing that can go right. If that move fails there is upside to that as well. Big picture this was a hell of a job
Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player, looked like desperation to me. Rose could have been gotten next summer, who were we bidding against that we had to pull the trigger now?
As far as seing how healthy Rose was before signing him, Phil could have seen that on the Bulls' dime. Was hoping for something more for a player who looked like an all star by the end of the season, on a great deal, and in his prime.
I don't know man.. I think your lament in losing Lopez (a good player) is not in line with how well we did in a brutal FA market. Mike Conley got $150mm. He's the highest paid NBA player EVER. How were we going to upgrade PG for the coach? The reality is with Lopez as a centerpiece I suspect Rose was the best we could do, unless you saw something else on the market that would have been better? In 20/20 the Rose trade was excellent, and it was my least favorite offseason move! $150mm for Mike Conley!
Lopez was getting pulled in the 4th quarter by Fisher for no good reason, pulled after 2 fouls, could have won more games if he had been allowed to play. Think about this Fish, two really bad coaches last season, and Lopez still got better every month. Held his own against some of the best big men in the league, had the better of some of them. I didn't see anyone coming back who was playing as well.
Yeah, those were the games we were winning, The last 2 wks of Fishers tenure, and after Rambi took over, the knicks played at the slowest pace in the NBA, ironically, Lopes played very well, and the losses mounted.
With JH preaching uptempo, lopez is not the type..You see the roster now, all uptempo players that could run
No way, yelled at the screen too many times during losses, wondering why Lopez was on the bench in the 4th while we were losing. Dont agree that Lopez playing well caused the rest of the lineup to play poorly.
I think this aspect of his comments is the real key point. This team has been remade in the image of Jeff Hornacek. Unlike how the Knicks did MDA, this time Phil is giving his coach what he needs to run his stuff. That makes all the difference in the world.
`That's really not fair to Lopez because he works in any system. He runs the floor well and a lot of his baskets came because he bit his man to the spot and developed great low post position. To say Lopez is just a have court player totally over looks his time out west playing in faster tempo offenses.
I also disagree with the notion that without the Rose trade Noah would not have came. I think Noah came because of NY, Phil, Carmelo, and Rose. Take away Rose and Noah would have likely came and so would have Lee. Rose play did not merit giving the BUlls anything of value. I still want to know who else was trying to get Rose and his expiring deal.
nixluva wrote:GustavBahler wrote:knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:there are two sides to that coin though... Thad Young went for a 20ish pick and they are similar. Lopez's best BB came when the Knicks were losing every game, and look at the what we saw with guards in this market. Bench players getting max contracts. Phil said part of the reason was the FA crop didn't make sense and he was a 100% right with that.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I guess my retort is simple... do you still believe the bold? Because if you look at every move that followed the Rose deal it looks like the start of a calculated and well executed offseason. Phil hedged the health of Noah and Rose with Kuz, NDour, Willy and Plumlee... all prospects locked into 2 year deals. Then to ensure there is veteran depth Jennings, Lance and Sasha represent fantastic value in this market.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is real balance. Its why I am very puzzled as some folks are saying this is an all in and PHil's plan totally changed and its all win now. NDour, Kuz, Willy, not sure if both Baker/Randle make the team, Plumlee... If you cant see a clear and concerted effort by this FO to continue to build towards the future WHILE fielding a team with the upside for a deep playoff run I just don't know what you are looking at.Knicksfan wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/knicks-...Report: Knicks sign Maurice Ndour to two-year guaranteed dealThe Knicks have signed Real Madrid forward Maurice Ndour to a two-year guaranteed deal, according to European basketball reporter David Pick.
Ndour, 24, last played for Real Madrid in Liga ACB, averaging 2.3 points and 1.8 rebounds in 9.6 minutes per game. He impressed the Knicks last year at Summer League in Las Vegas, scoring 23 points in a game against then-rookie Jahlil Okafor and the 76ers.
Following Summer League, Ndour signed a multi-year deal with the Mavericks, but was waived in October.
The signing of Ndour brings the Knicks to 14 players. He joins Joakim Noah, Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Kyle O’Quinn and Marshall Plumlee in the frontcourt.
On Tuesday, the team re-signed veteran guard Sasha Vujacic to a one-year deal worth the veteran’s minimum.
– Kenny Ducey
Two good signings this week. Never thought I would say that about Sasha returning, but for a year, and to help KP and the new rooks adjust to all the changes, its a smart move.
Its because the starting roster is top heavy with older, frequently injured players now. Some of us here were happy to have the best frontcourt since Ewing/Oakley. As I pointed out before, even Mike Lupica who supported the Rose trade said it was a desperation move. Im glad there are some younger players in the pipeline, at the same time, I want to be sure that KP isn't surrounded by older, broken down players on bad deals when its time to re-up.
I keep hearing that Porzingis would never leave. I believe if we've learned anything from the Durant move, is anything can happen, especially with Dolan in charge. I dont want mgmt to get complacent about what the team will look like when its time for KP to make his decision. Those are legitimate concerns IMO considering this franchise's history under Dolan.
Have also made it clear that since Phil's sudden sense of urgency, I do like the moves he has made to fill out the roster.
Hey, I didn't like the Rose deal either. But I did give it a wait and see. In the past that WAS the move. Now, that is just one thing that can go right. If that move fails there is upside to that as well. Big picture this was a hell of a job
Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player, looked like desperation to me. Rose could have been gotten next summer, who were we bidding against that we had to pull the trigger now?
As far as seing how healthy Rose was before signing him, Phil could have seen that on the Bulls' dime. Was hoping for something more for a player who looked like an all star by the end of the season, on a great deal, and in his prime.
I don't know man.. I think your lament in losing Lopez (a good player) is not in line with how well we did in a brutal FA market. Mike Conley got $150mm. He's the highest paid NBA player EVER. How were we going to upgrade PG for the coach? The reality is with Lopez as a centerpiece I suspect Rose was the best we could do, unless you saw something else on the market that would have been better? In 20/20 the Rose trade was excellent, and it was my least favorite offseason move! $150mm for Mike Conley!
Lopez was getting pulled in the 4th quarter by Fisher for no good reason, pulled after 2 fouls, could have won more games if he had been allowed to play. Think about this Fish, two really bad coaches last season, and Lopez still got better every month. Held his own against some of the best big men in the league, had the better of some of them. I didn't see anyone coming back who was playing as well.
Yeah, those were the games we were winning, The last 2 wks of Fishers tenure, and after Rambi took over, the knicks played at the slowest pace in the NBA, ironically, Lopes played very well, and the losses mounted.
With JH preaching uptempo, lopez is not the type..You see the roster now, all uptempo players that could run
No way, yelled at the screen too many times during losses, wondering why Lopez was on the bench in the 4th while we were losing. Dont agree that Lopez playing well caused the rest of the lineup to play poorly.
I think this aspect of his comments is the real key point. This team has been remade in the image of Jeff Hornacek. Unlike how the Knicks did MDA, this time Phil is giving his coach what he needs to run his stuff. That makes all the difference in the world.
Still don't get how a 31 year old who had knee surgery a couple of years ago is going to get up and down the court better than a 27 year old who played every game last season? No, Lopez wont be leading the break, but few centers do. He moves fast enough for put backs.
The key reason to want Noah isn't for his speed, but his passing. Noah is a better passer and makes great outlet passes to start a fast break.
GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player...Okay, you invited a comparison, Lopez and centers who recently signed $20m a year-ish contracts. Let's entertain that comparison further on the logical other side.
What recent trades for a player comparable to Lopez netted a first round pick or a better complimentary player?
Now that salaries are exploding, Lopez's bargain of a 12 million a year contract should have gotten us a better than just a second rounder. The part you left out of my quote was where I said that Phil should have gotten either a better draft pick a better player than Holiday. Wouldn't have traded Lopez for less especially since Rose could walk at the end of next season.$13.5m, but nevertheless... what are you basing "should" (two of them) on?
Citable precedent, or arbitrary opinion?
I assumed the latter since you were making an empirical comparison to other player's free agent deals.
Im basing it entirely on what we got back, mostly a PG who cant stay on the floor, who has been a shell of the player he used to be for years now, and on an expiring contract. What happens if Rose walks? In the end we got a 2nd rounder and a 12th man for Lopez and Grant. Was never opposed to trading Lopez, just would have prefered someone younger, healthier, and under contract beyond next season
My point is you're basing it entirely on your opinion of what the Knicks should have gotten back.
Im asking if there is any precedent you're basing your opinion on?
Are there a similar, citable trades that demonstrate the Knicks got a lesser return than a trade for a player comparable to Lopez ?
yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:GustavBahler wrote:knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:there are two sides to that coin though... Thad Young went for a 20ish pick and they are similar. Lopez's best BB came when the Knicks were losing every game, and look at the what we saw with guards in this market. Bench players getting max contracts. Phil said part of the reason was the FA crop didn't make sense and he was a 100% right with that.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I guess my retort is simple... do you still believe the bold? Because if you look at every move that followed the Rose deal it looks like the start of a calculated and well executed offseason. Phil hedged the health of Noah and Rose with Kuz, NDour, Willy and Plumlee... all prospects locked into 2 year deals. Then to ensure there is veteran depth Jennings, Lance and Sasha represent fantastic value in this market.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is real balance. Its why I am very puzzled as some folks are saying this is an all in and PHil's plan totally changed and its all win now. NDour, Kuz, Willy, not sure if both Baker/Randle make the team, Plumlee... If you cant see a clear and concerted effort by this FO to continue to build towards the future WHILE fielding a team with the upside for a deep playoff run I just don't know what you are looking at.Knicksfan wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/knicks-...Report: Knicks sign Maurice Ndour to two-year guaranteed dealThe Knicks have signed Real Madrid forward Maurice Ndour to a two-year guaranteed deal, according to European basketball reporter David Pick.
Ndour, 24, last played for Real Madrid in Liga ACB, averaging 2.3 points and 1.8 rebounds in 9.6 minutes per game. He impressed the Knicks last year at Summer League in Las Vegas, scoring 23 points in a game against then-rookie Jahlil Okafor and the 76ers.
Following Summer League, Ndour signed a multi-year deal with the Mavericks, but was waived in October.
The signing of Ndour brings the Knicks to 14 players. He joins Joakim Noah, Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Kyle O’Quinn and Marshall Plumlee in the frontcourt.
On Tuesday, the team re-signed veteran guard Sasha Vujacic to a one-year deal worth the veteran’s minimum.
– Kenny Ducey
Two good signings this week. Never thought I would say that about Sasha returning, but for a year, and to help KP and the new rooks adjust to all the changes, its a smart move.
Its because the starting roster is top heavy with older, frequently injured players now. Some of us here were happy to have the best frontcourt since Ewing/Oakley. As I pointed out before, even Mike Lupica who supported the Rose trade said it was a desperation move. Im glad there are some younger players in the pipeline, at the same time, I want to be sure that KP isn't surrounded by older, broken down players on bad deals when its time to re-up.
I keep hearing that Porzingis would never leave. I believe if we've learned anything from the Durant move, is anything can happen, especially with Dolan in charge. I dont want mgmt to get complacent about what the team will look like when its time for KP to make his decision. Those are legitimate concerns IMO considering this franchise's history under Dolan.
Have also made it clear that since Phil's sudden sense of urgency, I do like the moves he has made to fill out the roster.
Hey, I didn't like the Rose deal either. But I did give it a wait and see. In the past that WAS the move. Now, that is just one thing that can go right. If that move fails there is upside to that as well. Big picture this was a hell of a job
Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player, looked like desperation to me. Rose could have been gotten next summer, who were we bidding against that we had to pull the trigger now?
As far as seing how healthy Rose was before signing him, Phil could have seen that on the Bulls' dime. Was hoping for something more for a player who looked like an all star by the end of the season, on a great deal, and in his prime.
I don't know man.. I think your lament in losing Lopez (a good player) is not in line with how well we did in a brutal FA market. Mike Conley got $150mm. He's the highest paid NBA player EVER. How were we going to upgrade PG for the coach? The reality is with Lopez as a centerpiece I suspect Rose was the best we could do, unless you saw something else on the market that would have been better? In 20/20 the Rose trade was excellent, and it was my least favorite offseason move! $150mm for Mike Conley!
Lopez was getting pulled in the 4th quarter by Fisher for no good reason, pulled after 2 fouls, could have won more games if he had been allowed to play. Think about this Fish, two really bad coaches last season, and Lopez still got better every month. Held his own against some of the best big men in the league, had the better of some of them. I didn't see anyone coming back who was playing as well.
Yeah, those were the games we were winning, The last 2 wks of Fishers tenure, and after Rambi took over, the knicks played at the slowest pace in the NBA, ironically, Lopes played very well, and the losses mounted.
With JH preaching uptempo, lopez is not the type..You see the roster now, all uptempo players that could run
No way, yelled at the screen too many times during losses, wondering why Lopez was on the bench in the 4th while we were losing. Dont agree that Lopez playing well caused the rest of the lineup to play poorly.
I think this aspect of his comments is the real key point. This team has been remade in the image of Jeff Hornacek. Unlike how the Knicks did MDA, this time Phil is giving his coach what he needs to run his stuff. That makes all the difference in the world.`That's really not fair to Lopez because he works in any system. He runs the floor well and a lot of his baskets came because he bit his man to the spot and developed great low post position. To say Lopez is just a have court player totally over looks his time out west playing in faster tempo offenses.
I also disagree with the notion that without the Rose trade Noah would not have came. I think Noah came because of NY, Phil, Carmelo, and Rose. Take away Rose and Noah would have likely came and so would have Lee. Rose play did not merit giving the BUlls anything of value. I still want to know who else was trying to get Rose and his expiring deal.
and lets not forget how good Rolo is in the PnR which unfortunately we did not get to see much of because of the ... that ... offese
Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player...Okay, you invited a comparison, Lopez and centers who recently signed $20m a year-ish contracts. Let's entertain that comparison further on the logical other side.
What recent trades for a player comparable to Lopez netted a first round pick or a better complimentary player?
Now that salaries are exploding, Lopez's bargain of a 12 million a year contract should have gotten us a better than just a second rounder. The part you left out of my quote was where I said that Phil should have gotten either a better draft pick a better player than Holiday. Wouldn't have traded Lopez for less especially since Rose could walk at the end of next season.$13.5m, but nevertheless... what are you basing "should" (two of them) on?
Citable precedent, or arbitrary opinion?
I assumed the latter since you were making an empirical comparison to other player's free agent deals.
Im basing it entirely on what we got back, mostly a PG who cant stay on the floor, who has been a shell of the player he used to be for years now, and on an expiring contract. What happens if Rose walks? In the end we got a 2nd rounder and a 12th man for Lopez and Grant. Was never opposed to trading Lopez, just would have prefered someone younger, healthier, and under contract beyond next season
My point is you're basing it entirely on your opinion of what the Knicks should have gotten back.
Im asking if there is any precedent you're basing your opinion on?
Are there a similar, citable trades that demonstrate the Knicks got a lesser return than a trade for a player comparable to Lopez ?
Got it. I guess it comes down to is what numbers are important to both teams? I see us giving up a player who for the last few years has been elite in the paint in certain facets of the game. We got back a PG for the last few years, who has been by the numbers, one the worst PGs in the league if not the worst. Is there a precedence for that kind of a trade? IDK. Like Walt said, Cavs gave up two first rounders for Mosgov.
mreinman wrote:EnySpree wrote:Especially all you Phil haters.... Phil is woke!!!!
this move woke me the f**k up!
Damn Eny...that P90x really did you good.
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I guess my retort is simple... do you still believe the bold? Because if you look at every move that followed the Rose deal it looks like the start of a calculated and well executed offseason. Phil hedged the health of Noah and Rose with Kuz, NDour, Willy and Plumlee... all prospects locked into 2 year deals. Then to ensure there is veteran depth Jennings, Lance and Sasha represent fantastic value in this market.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is real balance. Its why I am very puzzled as some folks are saying this is an all in and PHil's plan totally changed and its all win now. NDour, Kuz, Willy, not sure if both Baker/Randle make the team, Plumlee... If you cant see a clear and concerted effort by this FO to continue to build towards the future WHILE fielding a team with the upside for a deep playoff run I just don't know what you are looking at.Knicksfan wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/knicks-...Report: Knicks sign Maurice Ndour to two-year guaranteed dealThe Knicks have signed Real Madrid forward Maurice Ndour to a two-year guaranteed deal, according to European basketball reporter David Pick.
Ndour, 24, last played for Real Madrid in Liga ACB, averaging 2.3 points and 1.8 rebounds in 9.6 minutes per game. He impressed the Knicks last year at Summer League in Las Vegas, scoring 23 points in a game against then-rookie Jahlil Okafor and the 76ers.
Following Summer League, Ndour signed a multi-year deal with the Mavericks, but was waived in October.
The signing of Ndour brings the Knicks to 14 players. He joins Joakim Noah, Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Kyle O’Quinn and Marshall Plumlee in the frontcourt.
On Tuesday, the team re-signed veteran guard Sasha Vujacic to a one-year deal worth the veteran’s minimum.
– Kenny Ducey
Two good signings this week. Never thought I would say that about Sasha returning, but for a year, and to help KP and the new rooks adjust to all the changes, its a smart move.
Its because the starting roster is top heavy with older, frequently injured players now. Some of us here were happy to have the best frontcourt since Ewing/Oakley. As I pointed out before, even Mike Lupica who supported the Rose trade said it was a desperation move. Im glad there are some younger players in the pipeline, at the same time, I want to be sure that KP isn't surrounded by older, broken down players on bad deals when its time to re-up.
I keep hearing that Porzingis would never leave. I believe if we've learned anything from the Durant move, is anything can happen, especially with Dolan in charge. I dont want mgmt to get complacent about what the team will look like when its time for KP to make his decision. Those are legitimate concerns IMO considering this franchise's history under Dolan.
Have also made it clear that since Phil's sudden sense of urgency, I do like the moves he has made to fill out the roster.
Hey, I didn't like the Rose deal either. But I did give it a wait and see. In the past that WAS the move. Now, that is just one thing that can go right. If that move fails there is upside to that as well. Big picture this was a hell of a job
Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player, looked like desperation to me. Rose could have been gotten next summer, who were we bidding against that we had to pull the trigger now?
As far as seing how healthy Rose was before signing him, Phil could have seen that on the Bulls' dime. Was hoping for something more for a player who looked like an all star by the end of the season, on a great deal, and in his prime.
For sure Lopez' contract is relatively a "bargain". I really wanted a first round pick back too. It really makes sense but I guess Derek did have some value.
But, what followed the Rose trade sure made up for no pick, and perhaps there in lies the answer. Had we not traded Lopez for Rose, would Noah have come here? He might have as he loves NY, but without a PG, not sure. Then, would Lee have come? Would Jennings (to a lesser extent though as he could have been the starter)?
I just think there are so many unknowns. But something I'm starting to see is that rebuilding is really really hard and we just have to accept that management will only do a partial rebuild. Right now, I'm ecstatic we have our picks. The "bad" thing is, they probably won't be very good! I think, as long as next year isn't an absolute disaster, NY is looking up on the FA destination list.
If we have a good season and we have that cap space next year (which we also have to factor into the chances we took this year), we are going to be Golden going forward.
If not, we still didn't do too bad (outside of no assets for a rebuild - but at what cost to KP's development? ps - See Phili and what losing has done to it's assets.)
EnySpree wrote:You guys talk to much about nothing....
Been wanting to watch that video, thanks for posting it!
Ndour really really reminds me of a (mostly) more talented Balkman and I really liked Balkman but he got lazy. (Sort of gave Cannabis a bad name. 
)
I think Ndour might really have some moments and be able to contribute on the 2nd unit, maybe not much his first year as he will not be as dominant athletically
against NBA players, but he has a chance to contribute and get the team and crowd going.
joec32033 wrote:mreinman wrote:EnySpree wrote:Especially all you Phil haters.... Phil is woke!!!!
this move woke me the f**k up!
Damn Eny...that P90x really did you good.
Dude I got some serious dad bod going on.... I haven't worked out in so long
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earthmansurfer wrote:EnySpree wrote:You guys talk to much about nothing....Been wanting to watch that video, thanks for posting it!
Ndour really really reminds me of a (mostly) more talented Balkman and I really liked Balkman but he got lazy. (Sort of gave Cannabis a bad name.I think Ndour might really have some moments and be able to contribute on the 2nd unit, maybe not much his first year as he will not be as dominant athletically
against NBA players, but he has a chance to contribute and get the team and crowd going.
Kid has great instincts on defense. If he works hard like he did in this clip is going to be hard to keep him off the court. The very least we can throw him in there with a few other guys to really lock down on the defensive end for stints
mreinman wrote:Yea Lopez was a good player, but since this trade he is being really overvalued. Excellent signing from Phil, but he's a stop gap player. He's also very slow, and got beat many times down court last year and was one of the only parts on the roster that was really tradable.yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:GustavBahler wrote:knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:there are two sides to that coin though... Thad Young went for a 20ish pick and they are similar. Lopez's best BB came when the Knicks were losing every game, and look at the what we saw with guards in this market. Bench players getting max contracts. Phil said part of the reason was the FA crop didn't make sense and he was a 100% right with that.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I guess my retort is simple... do you still believe the bold? Because if you look at every move that followed the Rose deal it looks like the start of a calculated and well executed offseason. Phil hedged the health of Noah and Rose with Kuz, NDour, Willy and Plumlee... all prospects locked into 2 year deals. Then to ensure there is veteran depth Jennings, Lance and Sasha represent fantastic value in this market.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is real balance. Its why I am very puzzled as some folks are saying this is an all in and PHil's plan totally changed and its all win now. NDour, Kuz, Willy, not sure if both Baker/Randle make the team, Plumlee... If you cant see a clear and concerted effort by this FO to continue to build towards the future WHILE fielding a team with the upside for a deep playoff run I just don't know what you are looking at.Knicksfan wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/knicks-...Report: Knicks sign Maurice Ndour to two-year guaranteed dealThe Knicks have signed Real Madrid forward Maurice Ndour to a two-year guaranteed deal, according to European basketball reporter David Pick.
Ndour, 24, last played for Real Madrid in Liga ACB, averaging 2.3 points and 1.8 rebounds in 9.6 minutes per game. He impressed the Knicks last year at Summer League in Las Vegas, scoring 23 points in a game against then-rookie Jahlil Okafor and the 76ers.
Following Summer League, Ndour signed a multi-year deal with the Mavericks, but was waived in October.
The signing of Ndour brings the Knicks to 14 players. He joins Joakim Noah, Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Kyle O’Quinn and Marshall Plumlee in the frontcourt.
On Tuesday, the team re-signed veteran guard Sasha Vujacic to a one-year deal worth the veteran’s minimum.
– Kenny Ducey
Two good signings this week. Never thought I would say that about Sasha returning, but for a year, and to help KP and the new rooks adjust to all the changes, its a smart move.
Its because the starting roster is top heavy with older, frequently injured players now. Some of us here were happy to have the best frontcourt since Ewing/Oakley. As I pointed out before, even Mike Lupica who supported the Rose trade said it was a desperation move. Im glad there are some younger players in the pipeline, at the same time, I want to be sure that KP isn't surrounded by older, broken down players on bad deals when its time to re-up.
I keep hearing that Porzingis would never leave. I believe if we've learned anything from the Durant move, is anything can happen, especially with Dolan in charge. I dont want mgmt to get complacent about what the team will look like when its time for KP to make his decision. Those are legitimate concerns IMO considering this franchise's history under Dolan.
Have also made it clear that since Phil's sudden sense of urgency, I do like the moves he has made to fill out the roster.
Hey, I didn't like the Rose deal either. But I did give it a wait and see. In the past that WAS the move. Now, that is just one thing that can go right. If that move fails there is upside to that as well. Big picture this was a hell of a job
Players not as good as Lopez are getting around 20 million a year in free agency. Giving up Lopez without getting back a first round pick or a better complimentary player, looked like desperation to me. Rose could have been gotten next summer, who were we bidding against that we had to pull the trigger now?
As far as seing how healthy Rose was before signing him, Phil could have seen that on the Bulls' dime. Was hoping for something more for a player who looked like an all star by the end of the season, on a great deal, and in his prime.
I don't know man.. I think your lament in losing Lopez (a good player) is not in line with how well we did in a brutal FA market. Mike Conley got $150mm. He's the highest paid NBA player EVER. How were we going to upgrade PG for the coach? The reality is with Lopez as a centerpiece I suspect Rose was the best we could do, unless you saw something else on the market that would have been better? In 20/20 the Rose trade was excellent, and it was my least favorite offseason move! $150mm for Mike Conley!
Lopez was getting pulled in the 4th quarter by Fisher for no good reason, pulled after 2 fouls, could have won more games if he had been allowed to play. Think about this Fish, two really bad coaches last season, and Lopez still got better every month. Held his own against some of the best big men in the league, had the better of some of them. I didn't see anyone coming back who was playing as well.
Yeah, those were the games we were winning, The last 2 wks of Fishers tenure, and after Rambi took over, the knicks played at the slowest pace in the NBA, ironically, Lopes played very well, and the losses mounted.
With JH preaching uptempo, lopez is not the type..You see the roster now, all uptempo players that could run
No way, yelled at the screen too many times during losses, wondering why Lopez was on the bench in the 4th while we were losing. Dont agree that Lopez playing well caused the rest of the lineup to play poorly.
I think this aspect of his comments is the real key point. This team has been remade in the image of Jeff Hornacek. Unlike how the Knicks did MDA, this time Phil is giving his coach what he needs to run his stuff. That makes all the difference in the world.`That's really not fair to Lopez because he works in any system. He runs the floor well and a lot of his baskets came because he bit his man to the spot and developed great low post position. To say Lopez is just a have court player totally over looks his time out west playing in faster tempo offenses.
I also disagree with the notion that without the Rose trade Noah would not have came. I think Noah came because of NY, Phil, Carmelo, and Rose. Take away Rose and Noah would have likely came and so would have Lee. Rose play did not merit giving the BUlls anything of value. I still want to know who else was trying to get Rose and his expiring deal.
and lets not forget how good Rolo is in the PnR which unfortunately we did not get to see much of because of the ... that ... offese
We got better.
acquiring rose was a necessary evil, and it is a real shame we had to lose lopez as a result. that said, rose is on a one year, expiring deal so the potential for damage lies merely in his resigning if he plays just well enough, which is a possibility.
dacash wrote:so our bench nick name could be "UNITED NATIONS"
I prefer (Horna)Cek republic.
Glad we signed this kid, but doesn't change my overall grade for the off season
These guys are 13, 14 and 15 on the roster.
earthmansurfer wrote:EnySpree wrote:You guys talk to much about nothing....Been wanting to watch that video, thanks for posting it!
Ndour really really reminds me of a (mostly) more talented Balkman and I really liked Balkman but he got lazy. (Sort of gave Cannabis a bad name.I think Ndour might really have some moments and be able to contribute on the 2nd unit, maybe not much his first year as he will not be as dominant athletically
against NBA players, but he has a chance to contribute and get the team and crowd going.
Yeah - Balkman is not a bad compare but that NDour jump-shot looks pretty damn nice as well. I like that he competes, he's active and bouncy but at the same time he has a bit of a feel for the game. I like how he drives and is able to stop hold his pivot foot, pump-fake .... finish around the rim.